EU's Barnier makes last ditch Brexit offer, Britain 'not impressed'

[Kieran00001]

5 minutes ago, damascase said:

Sorry, but Barnier is not a Commissioner. The French Commissioner is Pierre Moscovici.

 

Sorry, you are correct, he works for the commission and was appointed by the commission but he is not a commissioner.  Regardless, he can be voted out as his position is appointed by the President who is elected, and it is also important to consider that his negotiation has to be signed off by both the Council and the Parliament, both elected bodies, so not very undemocratic at all.

[Mike Teavee]

55 minutes ago, vogie said:

"P.S. I'm not a Remainer, Remoaner or Eumainer"

You have to be something Mike, can I put you down as a 'reliever?'????

 

You said "I personally think leaving the EU is going to hurt the UK," 

I think the EU is going to try hurt the UK for wanting to leave, and being in that kind of relationship is neither healthy for both sides.

 

"UK is fractured now & I honestly cannot see how we can get ourselves back together again, short of finding a common enemy we can unite against..."

Maybe the UK was divided before the Brexit Referendum, but it took the referendum to bring it to the light.

 

 

I guess if I had to choose I'm a Remainer (on the basis that I wouldn't have voted to leave) who accepts the result and just wants the best possible outcome for the UK.

 

Maybe the UK was divided before the Brexit Referendum, but it took the referendum to bring it to the light.

Excellent point and one I hadn't considered before (hardly surprising as I haven't lived in the UK for nearly 12 years) in which case Brexit bringing this out in the open so it can (hopefully) be healed is one huge positive coming out of it...

[Kieran00001]

 

4 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

 

It would seem that a majority of Daily Telegraph readers agree with you. According to the headlines in today’s edition.

 

Support for no-deal Brexit backed by public as poll finds growing number think UK should leave without a deal 

 

 

Unfortunately those traitors in Parliament are intent on ignoring the Democratically expressed wishes of the British people.

 

 

 

There are lots of polls.

This is your poll.

Quote

The ComRes poll was commissioned by pro-Leave group Brexit Express which surveyed over 2000 people

This is a graph of 74 polls taken from 2012 to Feb 2019, it really does not appear to show anything other than a loss in support to Leave and a gain in support to Remain.

 

 

[Loiner]

I didn’t know it hurts you that much that even a European guy in Bangkok knows what’s better for the UK. Maybe it makes you feel better when I tell you it doesn’t take much to know what’s better for the UK these days. 

You haven’t understood at all have you? The UK electorate do not accept our own political elites telling us that they know what is best for us. That message is widespread throughout the Brexit debate.
As a European you simply cannot understand how the EU has been one big lie, and we have over forty years experience of that. The ongoing EU integration would be even worse, so we will not accept it. On your side of the Channel, you may be happy with one big ‘Jeux Sans Frontieres’ but we are not, and we know it’s not best for us.
European in Bangkok; probably not even been to UK on a school trip; no experience of anything for forty years; thinks he knows better? Knows nowt.



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[Kieran00001]

Quote

 

Some 87% of people who were too young to cast a ballot in the 2016 Brexit referendum but have since reached voting age would “definitely” take part if a second public vote were called, according to a new poll. And of the estimated 2 million new young voters, 74% would back remain.

 

The survey, carried out by BMG on behalf of the anti-Brexit youth groups Our Future, Our Choice and For Our Future's Sake, suggests the youth vote would be crucial in any second remain campaign and could significantly boost its chances of overturning the 2016 leave result.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/09/new-young-voters-want-peoples-vote-strongly-remain-survey

[Loiner]

The fraud is: the referendum is just a referendum and not binding anyone to actually follow it. Half of the "exit" voters only voted "just despite" because they did not believe that "they would win". Bottom line the true brexiters are less than 30% of the voters ... but the PM tries to make a brexit, hence: it is fraud.

Even Mr Spock would have some problems with your logic. It’s the number of ballots cast, not what you think the result should be.
Referendum binding/not binding? Parliament too it and ran with it, in 2015 enacting provision for it to be held. The result was to Leave and Parliament has subsequently enacted the EU Withdrawal Bill to take us out on 29th March. All above board, so no fraud there.


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[Loiner]

Yeah, that is the problem with EU haters: you are simply plain stupid.

We’ve come to expect those insults from UK Remainers. Is this a new sentiment from our all-european-friends-together-happy-family too?


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[billd766]

6 hours ago, Enki said:

The fraud is: the referendum is just a referendum and not binding anyone to actually follow it. Half of the "exit" voters only voted "just despite" because they did not believe that "they would win". Bottom line the true brexiters are less than 30% of the voters ... but the PM tries to make a brexit, hence: it is fraud.

I am sure that you have the facts and the links to prove

quote "Half of the "exit" voters only voted "just despite" because they did not believe that "they would win". Bottom line the true brexiters are less than 30% of the voters".

 

I would be very interested in how you arrived at that position.

 

Of course if you have no verifiable proof, links or whatever then all I can say is that it is only your opinion which is just the same as everybody else's.

 

I can quite correctly say that if the Remain voters had not been so complacent on the referendum day they could have won the vote. 

[billd766]

6 hours ago, Enki said:

Yeah, that is the problem with EU haters: you are simply plain stupid. I don't recognize all flags (and bluntly: I stopped at number one) Number one is Turkey ... and Turkey is not a member of the EU or any organization associated to the EU.

That is a problem of many Remainers. They cannot accept that people are allowed to express a different opinion, so as in your post they result to insults, just as you have.

[Nigel Garvie]

5 minutes ago, billd766 said:

That is a problem of many Remainers. They cannot accept that people are allowed to express a different opinion, so as in your post they result to insults, just as you have.

Try to get to grips with some simple English. The poster showing the flags, incorrectly included Turkey, that is a FACT not an OPINION. Turkey is not in the EU, in fact Turkey (With the exception of the very small province of Thrace), is not even part of the continent of Europe.

[Nigel Garvie]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

You haven’t understood at all have you? The UK electorate do not accept our own political elites telling us that they know what is best for us. That message is widespread throughout the Brexit debate.
As a European you simply cannot understand how the EU has been one big lie, and we have over forty years experience of that. The ongoing EU integration would be even worse, so we will not accept it. On your side of the Channel, you may be happy with one big ‘Jeux Sans Frontieres’ but we are not, and we know it’s not best for us.
European in Bangkok; probably not even been to UK on a school trip; no experience of anything for forty years; thinks he knows better? Knows nowt.

IN REPLY TO:-

  15 hours ago,  welovesundaysatspace said: 

I didn’t know it hurts you that much that even a European guy in Bangkok knows what’s better for the UK. Maybe it makes you feel better when I tell you it doesn’t take much to know what’s better for the UK these days. 

Firstly the idea that "The UK electorate do not accept our own political elites telling us that they know what is best for us", coming from a Leaver has to be the biggest laugh on this forum for a while. Rees-Mogg, Boris, Murdoch, Rothermere, all men of the people, not a bunch of billionaires and toff politicians............really, could have fooled me, and I expect most others on this forum whatever their views on Brexit.

 

Secondly I was not aware that TV posters were restricted on what threads they were allowed to post to, based on their nationality, or place of residence. I know many non UK Europeans who are very well informed about what is/has been, going on in the UK, I appreciate their comments. The converse is true, as ably illustrated by many Brexiteers on TV.

 

I think it is important to try to take an active interest in what is happening in other European countries, and, if people do, I expect that they will often know more about some of these country's histories, than some of their own nationals do.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Nigel Garvie
spelling

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Try to get to grips with some simple English. The poster showing the flags, incorrectly included Turkey, that is a FACT not an OPINION. Turkey is not in the EU, in fact Turkey (With the exception of the very small province of Thrace), is not even part of the continent of Europe.

Try to understand that most of the Brexit posters on this forum are not as stupid as the Remainers keep telling us that we are. Fact.

 

The majority of Remain posters on this forum are nit pickers.

 

So that poster was incorrect. So what? Have YOU never made a mistake before?

 

So you agree that part of Turkey IS in Europe. Fact.

 

Look it up on a map.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=turkey+map&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=RtdiDXywRRoccM%3A%2CVaPzNHZBRraXYM%2C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kRBv0pBimLuXoJS4LZO-au4N3Qpfg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiB043T-vbgAhX58HMBHeJbD0cQ9QEwCHoECAUQFA#imgrc=RtdiDXywRRoccM:

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

That is a problem of many Remainers. They cannot accept that people are allowed to express a different opinion, so as in your post they result to insults, just as you have.

It’s a common misconception among the less educated that even the stupidest comments and most blatant lies count as an opinion they are entitled to, and that others have to respect the most utter nonsense under the guise of freedom of expression.

[malagateddy]

Perhaps the remainers could have a quick peek at the Kalergi Plan?
They could also maybe read the words of Jean Monnet.!!
Just saying

Try to understand that most of the Brexit posters on this forum are not as stupid as the Remainers keep telling us that we are. Fact.
 
The majority of Remain posters on this forum are nit pickers.
 
So that poster was incorrect. So what? Have YOU never made a mistake before?
 
So you agree that part of Turkey IS in Europe. Fact.
 
Look it up on a map.
 
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=turkey+map&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=RtdiDXywRRoccM%3A%2CVaPzNHZBRraXYM%2C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kRBv0pBimLuXoJS4LZO-au4N3Qpfg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiB043T-vbgAhX58HMBHeJbD0cQ9QEwCHoECAUQFA#imgrc=RtdiDXywRRoccM:

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[melvinmelvin]

51 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Try to understand that most of the Brexit posters on this forum are not as stupid as the Remainers keep telling us that we are. Fact.

 

The majority of Remain posters on this forum are nit pickers.

 

So that poster was incorrect. So what? Have YOU never made a mistake before?

 

So you agree that part of Turkey IS in Europe. Fact.

 

Look it up on a map.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=turkey+map&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=RtdiDXywRRoccM%3A%2CVaPzNHZBRraXYM%2C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kRBv0pBimLuXoJS4LZO-au4N3Qpfg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiB043T-vbgAhX58HMBHeJbD0cQ9QEwCHoECAUQFA#imgrc=RtdiDXywRRoccM:

There are many many ways of defining Europe,

one with which I am quite familiar is;

 

anything West of URAL is Europe,

 

used not infreq. int. organizations

 

 

[Kieran00001]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

There are many many ways of defining Europe,

one with which I am quite familiar is;

 

anything West of URAL is Europe,

 

used not infreq. int. organizations

 

 

 

Never heard that one, if it were true that everything West of the Urals is in Europe then that would include Iran, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan.

[welovesundaysatspace]

6 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Never heard that one, if it were true that everything West of the Urals is in Europe then that would include Iran, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan.

I‘ve heard the same Definition before. 

[Kieran00001]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I‘ve heard the same Definition before. 

 

Normally people consider it to be that which is West of the Caucasus mountains, the ones that gave us our name, Caucasian.  The Urals are further east than the Middle East, obviously its not Europe in Syria and Iraq.

[evadgib]

7 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Normally people consider it to be that which is West of the Caucasus mountains, the ones that gave us our name, Caucasian.  The Urals are further east than the Middle East, obviously its not Europe in Syria and Iraq.

It might explain how some qualify for the Champions league or European mong contest.

[Loiner]

4 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Firstly the idea that "The UK electorate do not accept our own political elites telling us that they know what is best for us", coming from a Leaver has to be the biggest laugh on this forum for a while. Rees-Mogg, Boris, Murdoch, Rothermere, all men of the people, not a bunch of billionaires and toff politicians............really, could have fooled me, and I expect most others on this forum whatever their views on Brexit.

 

Secondly I was not aware that TV posters were restricted on what threads they were allowed to post to, based on their nationality, or place of residence. I know many non UK Europeans who are very well informed about what is/has been, going on in the UK, I appreciate their comments. The converse is true, as ably illustrated by many Brexiteers on TV.

 

I think it is important to try to take an active interest in what is happening in other European countries, and, if people do, I expect that they will often know more about some of these country's histories, than some of their own nationals do.

In your haste to further your class war with the toffs, it may have escaped your notice while you were having your biggest laughs, that those you mention are Leavers. They are not the same political elites or chattering classes who are unwelcome in telling us "We know better than you."
No restriction on the Johnnie Foreigners having an opinion either, but not "Ve knows better zen you." EU nationals generally harbour a vested interest in their own country's economy, or they are committed Europhiles and Federasts so biased against our better. There's some antipodeans who also throw in their own two pennorth of sledging on the subject. They should all make their interests known before voicing their Remain allegiances, but in reality none of them can ever know better than us. It's an experience thing.

This is not to mention the Sweaty Socks too, who are in it with all the rest of us, but are particularly strident in calls that for some reason they shouldn't be. They seem to think they are a different nation or something, but on the whole appear to restrict their claims of better knowledge to what would suit Scotland better, not the UK. 

[Nigel Garvie]

18 minutes ago, Loiner said:

In your haste to further your class war with the toffs, it may have escaped your notice while you were having your biggest laughs, that those you mention are Leavers. They are not the same political elites or chattering classes who are unwelcome in telling us "We know better than you."
No restriction on the Johnnie Foreigners having an opinion either, but not "Ve knows better zen you." EU nationals generally harbour a vested interest in their own country's economy, or they are committed Europhiles and Federasts so biased against our better. There's some antipodeans who also throw in their own two pennorth of sledging on the subject. They should all make their interests known before voicing their Remain allegiances, but in reality none of them can ever know better than us. It's an experience thing.

This is not to mention the Sweaty Socks too, who are in it with all the rest of us, but are particularly strident in calls that for some reason they shouldn't be. They seem to think they are a different nation or something, but on the whole appear to restrict their claims of better knowledge to what would suit Scotland better, not the UK. 

You kindly make my case for me. You have clearly divided the "Political elites, chattering classes" etc into those that agree with you, wonderful toffs or whatever, and those who don't,  the "We know better than you" gang who you dislike. You are just unable to recognize that they are all the same people.

 

I've no idea what you mean by sweaty socks. I have worked with my hands (At a lathe) for well over 30 years, but I am well acquainted with toffs, which I why I generally despise them. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Nigel Garvie

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Normally people consider it to be that which is West of the Caucasus mountains, the ones that gave us our name, Caucasian.  The Urals are further east than the Middle East, obviously its not Europe in Syria and Iraq.

The Caucasus Mountains would mark the southern border of Europe; the Ural Mountains the eastern border. However, even parts of Turkey belong to Europe. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Europe

“Europe's eastern frontier is delineated by the Ural Mountains in Russia. The southeast boundary with Asia is not universally defined, but the modern definition is generally the Ural River or, less commonly, the Emba River. The boundary continues to the Caspian Sea, the crest of the Caucasus Mountains (or, less commonly, the river Kura in the Caucasus), and on to the Black Sea. The Bosporus, the Sea of Marmara, and the Dardanelles conclude the Asian boundary. The Mediterranean Sea to the south separates Europe from Africa. The western boundary is the Atlantic Ocean. Iceland, though on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge and nearer to Greenland (North America) than mainland Europe, is generally included in Europe for cultural reasons and because it is over twice as close to mainland Europe than to mainland North America.“

[Loiner]

You are just unable to recognize that they are all the same people.
 
I've no idea what you mean by sweaty socks.

One group is actively pursuing the will of the referendum majority. The other is doing it best to thwart it. Difficult for them all to be the same.
Sweaties - ask the bloke on the next lathe.


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[elliss]

20 hours ago, MONIKATSI said:

i understand the Leavers desire to exit the EU, and I respect the referendum that was held. However, if a country tries to implement the most controversial public policy decision of the last 60+ years without some kind of consensus in the nation, terrible things will happen.

         Correct ,, your understanding is  solid old school logic , thank you.

 

           Brexitears ,  will be held accountable ,  when  the  Brexit  bus  is burned .

              Bonkers , and fantasy farage ,  on top deck ,   alight . 555

 

Edited March 10, 2019 by elliss

[elliss]

  UK should offer  Norther Ireland , a enormous fincial  buy out ,

     to leave the UK  forever ,  and be a united Ireland , within  the EU.   

      UK  must pay the ultimate price , for invading Northern Ireland.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2019 by elliss

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, elliss said:

  UK should offer  Norther Ireland , a enormous fincial  buy out ,

     to leave the UK  forever ,  and be a united Ireland , within  the EU.   

      UK  must pay the ultimate price , for invading Northern Ireland.

Not perhaps the best choice of words, given we already have.

Edited March 10, 2019 by evadgib

[MONIKATSI]

23 hours ago, MONIKATSI said:

i understand the Leavers desire to exit the EU, and I respect the referendum that was held. However, if a country tries to implement the most controversial public policy decision of the last 60+ years without some kind of consensus in the nation, terrible things will happen.

Because of course it couldn’t possibly be the fault of Brexiteers.

 

It’s always somebody else’s fault.

 

Brexiteers, failed to plan, planned to fail.

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, elliss said:

  UK should offer  Norther Ireland , a enormous fincial  buy out ,

     to leave the UK  forever ,  and be a united Ireland , within  the EU.   

      UK  must pay the ultimate price , for invading Northern Ireland.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 I thought it was the Scottish that migrated to Ireland,on the orders of King James of Scotland, this of course was before the union of Scotland and England. There fore before the formation of the U.K.

[MONIKATSI]

1 hour ago, MONIKATSI said:

Because of course it couldn’t possibly be the fault of Brexiteers.

 

It’s always somebody else’s fault.

 

Brexiteers, failed to plan FileZilla Malwarebytes Rufus, planned to fail.

i understand the Leavers desire to exit the EU, and I respect the referendum that was held. However, if a country tries to implement the most controversial public policy decision of the last 60+ years without some kind of consensus in the nation, terrible things will happen.

[Kieran00001]

14 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The Caucasus Mountains would mark the southern border of Europe; the Ural Mountains the eastern border. However, even parts of Turkey belong to Europe. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Europe

“Europe's eastern frontier is delineated by the Ural Mountains in Russia. The southeast boundary with Asia is not universally defined, but the modern definition is generally the Ural River or, less commonly, the Emba River. The boundary continues to the Caspian Sea, the crest of the Caucasus Mountains (or, less commonly, the river Kura in the Caucasus), and on to the Black Sea. The Bosporus, the Sea of Marmara, and the Dardanelles conclude the Asian boundary. The Mediterranean Sea to the south separates Europe from Africa. The western boundary is the Atlantic Ocean. Iceland, though on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge and nearer to Greenland (North America) than mainland Europe, is generally included in Europe for cultural reasons and because it is over twice as close to mainland Europe than to mainland North America.“

Thanks.  Not really a clear North to South line then, and so we cannot simply say, "everything West of...".