Marriage Only 'for Show'

[drlawrence]

Is it true that you can get marriages in Thailand such as buddha weddings which aren't legally binding but which might help in getting visas? I'm British and want to go to Australia for a holiday with Thai girlfriend who I've been with for 6 months. Don't want to marry but would consider a 'show' marriage if it would help. Any info on this sort of marriage would be great!

[lopburi3]

No it is not true that such a thing would help you for visas.

[pnustedt]

Whilst, in theory, a marriage may not make a legal difference, I have found that since I was married and can refer to my partner as my "wife" rather than girlfriend, does make a difference, especially when dealing with bigotted old biddies who are so common at British (and I suspect other natiohalities') immigration counters.

I think a legally recognised wedding would be more convincing than a party at the Wat tho'.

[davethailand]

a legally recognised wedding is when you go to the local ampur office and signed on the dotted line, then you get your certificate, and your married BUT you are then legally married in thailand and near enough the same rules apply that apply in the uk.

If the girls willing to divorce after your holiday then it might work.

The ceremonies are just blessings.

[pnustedt]

a legally recognised wedding is when you go to the local ampur office and signed on the dotted line, then you get your certificate

Yeah - go on and do it!

[p_brownstone]

Is it true that you can get marriages in Thailand such as buddha weddings which aren't legally binding but which might help in getting visas? I'm British and want to go to Australia for a holiday with Thai girlfriend who I've been with for 6 months. Don't want to marry but would consider a 'show' marriage if it would help. Any info on this sort of marriage would be great!

Perhaps you are referring to the quaint local system commonly referred to as "bar fine"?

Rather than undertaking a "Bhudda wedding" (sic) (and please note the capitalisation) you might like to pop into your local Harry Ramsdens’ or equivalent and get some malt vinegar sprinkled on you - it's obvious the cultural differences and the overall import of the ceremonies would be lost on you anyway.

[drlawrence]

p_brownstone, you're either extremely narrow minded or extremely religious. Actually, is there a difference?

I just want to be with someone who I love.

But actually, you have no idea which culture I come from or if I'm a buddha or not. And if buddist ceremonies are so important to you, then what's your problem?

[dfwbkk]

Perhaps you are referring to the quaint local system commonly referred to as "bar fine"?

Ha, now that's funny!

Either way, when applying for her visa you will be asked to show the marriage certificate (from the Amphur). Seeing as TiT perhaps you can get hold of non-authentic certificates?? Never thought about that but what the heck - it might work?

/// DFW

[drlawrence]

Sorry, I'm ignorant. What's a bar fine?

But I really don't get why some of you people think you're superior to Thai girls working in bars. What choice do most Thai girls have? Doubt if too many people on this forum are more educated than your average bar girl. But you're white so you're superior, yeah?

[pnustedt]

Rather than undertaking a "Bhudda wedding" (sic) (and please note the capitalisation) you might like to pop into your local Harry Ramsdens’ or equivalent and get some malt vinegar sprinkled on you - it's obvious the cultural differences and the overall import of the ceremonies would be lost on you anyway.

Confirmed - never marry a bag of fish and chips. Face it - you're in Thailand! Try Lap Gau + rice! - You'll do fine out here.

[p_brownstone]

p_brownstone, you're either extremely narrow minded or extremely religious. Actually, is there a difference?

I just want to be with someone who I love.

But actually, you have no idea which culture I come from or if I'm a buddha or not. And if buddist ceremonies are so important to you, then what's your problem?

My dear chap (copyright p_brownstone)

I have rarely been called narrow minded, and never have I been called religious - extremely or otherwise.

The sentence "I just want to be with someone who I love" - OK, I guess you are indeed British, although some may argue that is not a culture per se.

However I am pretty sure you're not a "Buddha" (again - please note the capital letter)

[drlawrence]

Are you from an English public school by any chance? Too bad about the classless society, eh? Now you're just one of the masses. No more significant than a cadpole crapping on a cat.

[Richard W]

Doubt if too many people on this forum are more educated than your average bar girl. But you're white so you're superior, yeah?

I'm glad (I think) that their educational standard is rising. It had been falling, which I presumed was a sign of Thailand's economic progress. I thought a high proportion of bar-finable prostitutes had no secondary schooling. Am I wrong?

[davethailand]

a legally recognised wedding is when you go to the local ampur office and signed on the dotted line, then you get your certificate

Yeah - go on and do it!

Been there and signed on the dotted line already.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Sorry, I'm ignorant. What's a bar fine?

But I really don't get why some of you people think you're superior to Thai girls working in bars. What choice do most Thai girls have? Doubt if too many people on this forum are more educated than your average bar girl. But you're white so you're superior, yeah?

So that you know, a bar fine is the fee payable to the bar to enable you to take out a bar person. aka a take away fee. For what it is worth, your chances of getting a visa for a womant accompany you to Australia or any other western country are virtually nil. Back to the drawing board.

[davethailand]

Is it true that you can get marriages in Thailand such as buddha weddings which aren't legally binding but which might help in getting visas? I'm British and want to go to Australia for a holiday with Thai girlfriend who I've been with for 6 months. Don't want to marry but would consider a 'show' marriage if it would help. Any info on this sort of marriage would be great!

i successfully got a visa for oz for my thai gf in 2002, we had only been together 3 months, She worked in my club (before i bought it).

Don't lie,

good paperwork,

same answers in the interview.

i'm british by the way.

[meadish_sweetball]

Be nice to your girl and tell the truth to the embassy, this is the way to go anywhere. If you have generally bad intentions, it will shine through and people at the embassy will notice. It is what they do all day after all.

Personally, I am pretty apalled to see how bad many Thai girls are treated by western men. I know there are differences, but looking at the majority, I feel sorry for the girls. If you respect her as you would your mother or daughter, than I wish you all the best. Otherwise, get screwed.

[ratcatcher]

This is an old and always interesting topic. Farang men come to Thailand, usually as tourists, meet a Thai girl ,quite often in the "hospitality"industry and before you can say "my bpen rai" they want to take her back to wherever they came from. Sort of "Look at the exotic babe I found"attitude.("Trophy Girls"). Goes down well at the local pubs or clubs back in the west for a while and then things sometimes start to unravel and she gets homesick for the weather and som tam.

Getting married to a Thai woman regardless of where she comes from is,like anywhere else, a serious business, IMHO. The "Buddhist wedding" is merely ceremonial (it's her religion and she deeply respects it) and makes everybody feel good, especially the woman's family, as you have just raised her status to that of "Mia Farang". Face has been gained.

The civil ceremony is very cheap after you have produced all the necessary paperwork (divorce certificate, if any, etc) .Immigration will look closely at all documents and may request photos of your dwelling or the police may inspect and ask questions to see if you are indeed living together or if your address is the Nana Hotel.

When you are applying for a visa to take your wife back to your home country (for a holiday?) I believe it is best to be truthful and have your stories agreeing as the embassy staff can see through a sham relationship in no time flat.

Many expats on these type of boards agree that for the most part Thai women prefer life in Thailand to life in the west,providing their farang partner is looking after them and the family. Thai women ,like women elsewhere,are not commodities to be married and divorced merely for the satisfaction of western men.

OK I've got my flak jacket on. Nuff sed.

[h5kaf]

drLawrence you seeem to have a number of problems, some of which you may be unaware.

In my experience few foreigners - who live here in Thailand - look down on bar girls or any other form of prostitution. We recognise their unique contribution to Thai society and to our own emotional welfare - on occassions. However if you are considering a significant relationship with one you would do well to be aware of a local piece of wisdom. "You can take the girl from the bar but you cannot take the bar from the girl".

As to obtaining a visa for such a lady to visit the USA, Europe or Australia I am sure that DrPPP has told the truth - no chance. At the British Embassy the staff do not need to be specially trained or very bright to spot a 'bar girl' presenting as 'my wife' or 'girlfriend'. They dress in their best but their best is functional to attract horny men and they have a lovely habit of loking you over as they pass, maily trying to locate the size of the bulge in your wallet pocket. Even with a marriage certificate you and she would be asked many questions. Many people fail at this hurdle when asked what her name is. Replies are invariably along the lines of; Moi, Pum, Kung etc. these are the nicknames but when pressed the real names are unknown. They also want PROOF that she will return to Thailand and they have some very strong notions of what constitutes this proof.

Having said all this it was a 2 hour breeze to get my wife a visa to go to the UK and I am sure Australia would be the same.

Good luck to you, and even if you don't like some of the advice you get you realy should listen with an open mind

[teacher]

The only way to get a tourist visa is for your lady to show a reason to return back to thailand, that means assets. House, condo, land in her name. Even better if she also has a good job (sorry not bar girl) where she pays her tax through the company she works for.

As her sponsor you must show you can support her and she will have somewhere to stay and not be a drain on government funds.(if you want to know what this is then mail me)

Sorry for others who dont know but, The embassy staff are trained to look for time wasters and anyone trying to pull the wool over their eyes.

Due to the fact there are so many time-wasters they are getting tough on all applications, hence leaving a long waiting times.

[davethailand]

just got my wifes 2nd visa for england,

queued outside, papers were looked at by front desk and we were told to go straight to the cashier and pay, instant visa did'nt even have to see the desk staff.

[john b good]

Some of what has been written on this thread is utter and absolute bullsh*t. (I am nor saying all)

i.e. someone said you won't get a visa for your girl etc.

I had a girl come to visit me in Australia and had no problems at all after I demanded to speak to a white face i.e. an Australian staff member. (and I was not an Australian national)

Visa received within 48 ours.

I have also had my wife accompany me to the antipodes (more than once in fact)and again no problems, none of this "police visiting the house stuff"

In the case of NZ got the visa the following day and for Oz got it within and hour.

No interogation, no searching questions.

Just looking as if you might be genuine would help.

Perhaps it's not only the way the girl presents herself at the embassy (i.e. not trying to solicit the consul general) but as much as the guy who is standing alongside her.

If you l00k like an ex occupant of a max/medium security prison, yes, you will probably encounter a few hurdles.

As has been said these people (embassy staff) have seen most all types fronting up to take the "trophy" home to have the mates goggle over her and I don't think they would need to be related to Einstein to see through some of the applicants.

Many (again not all) of the people who visit the realm wouldn't know what a pair of shoes look like let alone owning a pair.

[pnustedt]

You are absolutely correct John - working in a bar does not preclude a girl from visiting the UK. So much rubbish is spoken about bar girls.

When I first took my (then) g/f to UK the embassy were fully aware that she worked in a bar. It helped that my company was paying for the rtn tkt and she had no reason to overstay in the UK. The plan was that she was to visit my family and if all was well we would marry.

[samran]

What choice do most Thai girls have?

ummmm..... plenty actually.

You'd know that if you got out of the bar and met some real Thai people.

Being condescending and thinking that all Thai girls are poor helpless twits is just another form of superiority complex.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Be nice to your girl and tell the truth to the embassy, this is the way to go anywhere. If you have generally bad intentions, it will shine through and people at the embassy will notice. It is what they do all day after all.

Personally, I am pretty apalled to see how bad many Thai girls are treated by western men. I know there are differences, but looking at the majority, I feel sorry for the girls. If you respect her as you would your mother or daughter, than I wish you all the best. Otherwise, get screwed.

Oh Sweetball ... I really do love your turn of phrase. I got a real laugh out of your pragmatic advice. So very practical

[drlawrence]

Thanks for all the advice. A little contradictory but still interesting. I just want to object to one thing: this notion that in a thai-farang relationship, the farang is likely to be exploiting and mistreating the thai. I stayed with my thai girlfriend (who isn't a bar girl) every day for 5 months and we visited about 10 countries together. During this time, I found it almost impossible to make real friends or receive any warmth from anyone. Everyone assumed that I (a 24 year old Brit) was exploiting this poor, beautiful Thai girl. Why does everyone assume that Western men are treating their Thai girlfriends badly? If anything, it's the reverse. Here are a few of the things I put up with whilst with her:

1. getting drunk and trashing my room in Korea because she was jealous that my boss was a young female

2. spending whole nights in a drunken rage screaming so that all the korean neighbours assumed that i was beating her.

3. getting drunk and spending whole days screaming at me in public places

4. getting drunk in youth hostels and telling people i was keeping her against her will (it was her idea to travel with me!) of course, everyone we met hated me.

5. keeping in touch with boyfriends whilst we were together

6. getting drunk in phuket and sleeping with another man in my bed while I slept

7. after i left her to go to london to get documents to marry her, she e-mailed an american saying she was lonely and asking would he meet her

i loved her and did everything i possibly could to try and make her happy.

But my point is:

Before making all these accusations about Western men, just realise that a lot of Thai girls are completely unsuited to civilization and that the Western men are often in a hopeless and completely blameless situation.

[p_brownstone]

1. getting drunk and trashing my room in Korea because she was jealous that my boss was a young female

2. spending whole nights in a drunken rage screaming so that all the korean neighbours assumed that i was beating her.

3. getting drunk and spending whole days screaming at me in public places

4. getting drunk in youth hostels and telling people i was keeping her against her will (it was her idea to travel with me!) of course, everyone we met hated me.

5. keeping in touch with boyfriends whilst we were together

6. getting drunk in phuket and sleeping with another man in my bed while I slept

7. after i left her to go to london to get documents to marry her, she e-mailed an american saying she was lonely and asking would he meet her

i loved her and did everything i possibly could to try and make her happy.

Good heavens man!

They say love is blind but it's also apparently deaf and dumb!

If you are only 24, why are you wasting time with this woman!? She may not be a Bargirl but she certainly acts like one.

It's a fact - whether you approve of it or not - that the choice of a mans' companion reflects upon him.

I strongly suggest you step back from this relationship, try to grow up, and find someone else; don't ruin your life with a woman like this.

[Jing Joe]

Is it true that you can get marriages which might help in getting visas? I'm British and want to go to Australia for a holiday with Thai girlfriend who I've been with for 6 months. Don't want to marry but would consider a 'show' marriage if it would help.

Thank goodness for the dilligence of the Australian Embassy in Bkk to sus out the fraudlenent.

It is a complex expensive and thorough proceedure even for us Aussies to get a genuine Thai wife into this "Lucky Country".

His girlfriend many have more integrity to qualify and might deserve better than to be treated as a "Travel Ticket" in a "show marriage".

The Australian Embassy use a fine tooth comb, the implement usually reserved to sift out vermin.

[drlawrence]

Just to add that no fraud took place. We were thinking of going for a short holiday in Australia as we have done in about 10 other countries. And she probably would have go it as she had enough money. But actually, she didn't apply for visa in the end. Decided against going to a tediously boring country full of stupids.

[whattodo]

Just to add that no fraud took place. We were thinking of going for a short holiday in Australia as we have done in about 10 other countries. And she probably would have go it as she had enough money. But actually, she didn't apply for visa in the end. Decided against going to a tediously boring country full of stupids.

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