Crackdown On Paedophile Network In Chiangmai

[BlackJack]

Another hot issue - I am dead against the abuse (in any form) of children

However its all about numbers and in some countries kids start fooling around at very young ages -say 10 or younger

so what is the legal age of the hill tribe people starting sex?

i think you will find that it is very young and started a long time before falangs entered the scene

the som tam lady says the gopher hunting technique is the best

just wait, let them stick their heads up and then shoot

QUESTION: So how do you determin the right age - psychologically or physically

[IsaanAlex]

And it is also true what many have said, that "incest and child abuse" is a very frequent and ever present pastime of so many Thai people.

People haven't seen abuse, at least physical abuse, until they live in Thailand. I lived in Isaan (presently out) and saw people being hit on an almost weekly basis. Primarily it was one father who beat his son who is 12 years old but already on his was to being a full on ladyboy. But husbands hitting their wives was also no biggie. It happened the other way around too, but, unile western ladies a Thai lady know that if she hits her husband that she will most likely get beat down-and hard-and the Thai police don't care...even for farang/Thai unions...it is a 'family problem'.

The Thais (those in power) are often heard uttering comments about the westernisation of Thailand but they should (must) look inwards for the answers.

A ggod friend said it best; if they want to rail against 'western culture' they can give it all back and see how they like it back in the fields. Electricity, the internet, aeroplanes, the telephone, sattelite tv, cars, etc, etc, etc are all 'western' inventions...

And chemical castration doesn't work. nyone with a brain (and alot of criminals ARE smart) know that you can just reintroduce the chemicals. In one case in Europe, a sex offender let them remove his testes to get out of prison earlier; once outside he started injecting testosterone, i.e. steroids, and was back in business, soon committing more sex crimes.

I'd also like to add that sex with children is just as much, if not more, an asian thing as a western thing. The Japanese, at least at one time, couldn't show pubic hair, but they could show pre-pubescent girls...i.e. no pubic hair...it is also a long held belief among Chinese that sex with very young girls keeps you young and virile. Better than many Africans who think that sex with a virgin will take away AIDS, so they rape female infants...

And people who molest pre-pubescent kids should be shot. But the process and burden of proof should be set very, very high-so high in fact that I wouldn't trust any country of, say, Thailands standing, to implement this penalty.

It's just too easy. drug dealers will be shot on sight. pedophiles will be shot on sight. So who will be getting shot? Anyone the people in power want to liquidate. And if you say anything...guess what...you are a pedo or a drug dealer too. Kind of like defending anyone who has been accused of being a 'terrorist' nowadays...

Another group that should be shot are those who think that there is some sort of evuivalence (sp) between sleeping with a child and sleeping with someone just out of childhood. A pubescent girl of 13, 14, 15 years old should arguably be off-limits, but it's not the same as messing with a infant-(say) 12 year old.

This is bullshit that the west parades around and asians will support if it suits them and their agenda.

Girls all over the world are marrying and having children by 13,14,15 years old. Same as they are doing in Thailand to this day. But if you are a foreigner, you are a pedophile....

OK, maybe you are, just for arguments sake. That makes them also. So, either it's wrong and nobody does it, or it's 'kind-of wrong' and the law stays out of it and we way it individually on a case by case basis.

Case 1: man goes into a village, sees a 13 year old virgin that he likes, pays the dowry, legally marries her, has children with her and generally does right be her. The grandkids aren't going to care that granddad was 23 and mom was 13 when they hooked up. My grandad was 21 or so and my grandma was 16, my dad was 30 and my mom just turned 18...

Case 2: Many walks into a brothel, picks lucky number 13, who just happens to be 13 years old, has sex with her same as he would a 20 year old, tips her and leaves...

Hardly the same thing.

And just to be controversial, I'll repeat something that I've said in the past; and with all seriousness.

If I was totally downtrodden with no hope for the future, or my families future, I'd rather marry my daughter off at 13 years old to 'generic' westerner, than have her wait until 18 years old, just to marry generic Thai guy.

IA

[maerim]

The grandkids aren't going to care that granddad was 23 and mom was 13 when they hooked up. My grandad was 21 or so and my grandma was 16, my dad was 30 and my mom just turned 18...

With the best will in the world this is nowhere near whats happening here.

The problem here and Cambodia Sri Lanka etc. is that some western men are coming to these countries for one thing and one thing alone,underage sex,

now what's underage?

15-16? The real problem is that these children have no choice in the matter it's not like a couple of school children getting up to a bit of hanky panky after school these children being abused by these men are having their lives ruined.

If I was totally downtrodden with no hope for the future, or my families future, I'd rather marry my daughter off at 13 years old to 'generic' westerner, than have her wait until 18 years old, just to marry generic Thai guy

These children are not being married of they are being sexually abused for money.

Would you let your child do that even if you were on your uppers?

[ExpatFromHell]

Frankly I don't believe this article.

Its all a bit too clean and simple. I think its a bit of invention by a PC journalist who has an agenda and needs to get it of his/her chest.

If the facts so stated are true then why have people not been arrested and deported or at least taken in for an interview.

I think its all Bullshit.

[IsaanAlex]

With the best will in the world this is nowhere near whats happening here.

Agreed. But my point was that it is just as much circumstances an age. Some people just see 15 years old and, "that's it, you're a pedo".

I don't agree with that 'analysis'.

15-16? The real problem is that these children have no choice in the matter it's not like a couple of school children getting up to a bit of hanky panky after school these children being abused by these men are having their lives ruined.

Circumstances again. And there is victimisation everywhere.

Maybe these men should recognise that they have a problem and combine their interest in young girls sexually with an interest in their future.

If you like to sleep with 13, 14 or 15 year old girls, go marry one, treat her right for a few years, and then when her skin gets all saggy at 21 you divorce her and leave her with something.

A 5-7 year marriage is doing pretty good for alot of people nowadays and you probably saved her from a few years of sweaty, don't-give-a-###### pervs pulling a train on her and then leaving a shell.

Be a responsible pedo at the least.

These children are not being married of they are being sexually abused for money.

And that is what I beleive is the crux of the problem also.

Would you let your child do that even if you were on your uppers?

I'd rather sell drugs and do hits on people. Or pimp fully formed, unrelated, females. Selling your kids for sex is one of the lowest things I can think of.

Besides that, I have the ability to look ahead and figure out that if I can't support a child, I'm not fit to have one. I have 2 right now and would like one more but think that it's not a financially prudent decision at this point=no baby for the moment.

Really, the people buying and selling children both come from moral classes that are not above the other, IMO. The only shame is for the children. It often ruins them to the point that they grow up to become the same quality of person.

And for the last poster that stated that they think the article is all bullshit, I'd agree that much of it could be. Journalists need a story, 'non'-profits need to satisfy an agenda, etc, etc.

And what of all these people who just 'know' of this abuse. How? And why don't they do anything if it's so clear cut.

To say it's all allowed to flourish because these farangs are so 'powerful' and can pay people off, etc is a crock of shit. To say it's all about money is bullshit.

Us farangs are their monkeys and don't have that much influence. If they were afraid of losing our money they wouldn't be tightening up all the immigration laws, for one.

IA

[mai_ra_bu_cheu]

A respected businessman who has lived in Chiang Mai for several years tells a very different story. The Westerner asks not to be identified because of fears for his safety. "There are at least six Australian pedophiles living in this area, and that's not counting the many others who pass through hunting children. They are smart. Some change their names and nationalities to avoid detection, some have dual passports, some have false passports," the businessman says.

"There are some weird guys among them. There's an Australian farmer who comes in on holidays and gets all the little boys and takes them out of town, three or four at a time. A lot of people come through regularly. Some are ex-government people. One time there was an ex-ASIO guy. He was a high-ranking guy and he was into very little kids."

Respected Businessman my arse. Living several years around pedophiles, mmm. Not respected by me. Fears for his safety - f****g woos, what about the children getting f****d.

If I knew that there were several philes in my area, they wouldn't be there very long!!

What the f^^k do you do/say to them - Good Morning Mr. Pedophile, having a nice day?

If you are that scared of Australian farmers, I'll come and give you and the other Chiang Mai residents a hand at making sure they don't want to visit Chiang Mai again. I can think of many other people who would come with me.

I am serious.

How can anyone just sit back and watch a kid getting abused?

[marto]

Torturing, hanging... and their sexual life in the jail ain't enough /better could be if they were arrested somewhere in Africa.. or Turkey - we know how other inmates love pedophiles/ Check tis out:

http://www.perverted-justice.com

All they photos and info - in public!

[maerim]

If the facts so stated are true then why have people not been arrested and deported or at least taken in for an interview.

Why do you think Gary Glitter aka Paul Gadd convicted felon and well known child entertainer lives in Cambodia?

The climate?

[DaveYo]

In case many of you somehow forgot, this crap has been going on for some time. In the case of Dave Arthur, he did get set up from the group that is there, once Dave found out their true dealings, and this group was also under investigation. So in turn they themselves toss the buck right back on Dave's lap and got him out of there before he revealed to the authorities of those involved in Chiang Mai.

If Thailand was really serious of shutting it down, they can do all of that inside of a week. First thing is round up all the foreigners there and double check their passports completely to make sure they are legit, and especially these people's backgrounds top to bottom. During this time period, have these foreigners be held in a detention center with hotel like settings till they are cleared both by passport, background and ID from any kids involved. Any foreigners who are outside of the area, should also be searched and found and brought to the center and have same likewise treatment till they too are cleared. Any foreigner found to have done wrong, presto, off to the Hilton and get deported and blacklisted for life just like Dave from Chiang Mai.

In the meantime of all of this round up all the kids that are known to be involved for evidence to do the identifying of the sickos who did such to them, and also round up all the parents, aunts and uncles and any relatives who participated and are involved in this sick scheme and have them expelled and blacklisted too.

After a week, you will see a new Chiang Mai exist.

All it takes is one person to say officially Enough is Enough.

Daveyo

[Dickie]

Child sex has always been around. Murals on walls of ancient Roman buildings openly depict people and children having sex, so it's nothing new. It also happens in diverse social types so it isn't a cultural thing. Getting irate won't stop it. Cuff 'em and stuff 'em helps but you can only do that after the event. WHY it happens is still a mystery and if they're all killed off you have no one to study to try and find out the 'why'. Also more are guaranteed to appear, so that doesn't solve the problem. Personally I think the reason is something simple, like a brain defect, but that's just an opinion. Killing them, while a perfectly normal reaction, isn't going to do the trick.

So for now the best thing the Thais can do is find 'em and send them back to the countries from which they came, alerting the recipients as to the reason. Let the pervert's own people have the problem.

[Foggy Bottom]

I have to admit on reading the OP that this is not a Chiangmai I recognise after living here for 5 years and having spent the first couple of years very actively involved in the nightlife scene. In the same way, having taught in Universities here for most of that time I have never seen any proof of the so called "student prostitute rings" and therefore must conclude that such environments and "opportunities" are kept well hidden from western eyes.

Regarding one of the Akha girls in the report (Aimee) if this is the same girl that I know, she is very intelligent, bright and certainly aware of the world around her. It takes a very long time to get her to talk with you, and even after two years of bumping into her selling flowers, she is still very reticent about having a conversation beyond the topic of the flowers she is selling, which leads me to suspect that part of the story is based on heresay - I do know that about a year ago, she was having a very tough time with other kids accusing her of sleeping with a farang - once not on an extended trip! - and she was distraught beyond belief, maintaining it was a lie. Her main ambition is to get an education.

Concerning the exploitation of the Akha and other hill tribes. They are agrarian subsistence societies. They had no need of money until the Thai government ran electricity into their villages and demonstrated the electricl consumer goods that we take for granted, they had no need of outsiders until their children were forced into government schools to learn central Thai and the corrupted view on regional history that is taught there. At the same time, the government refuses to issue ID cards to these people but forces them into positions of having to earn money to pay for these new conveniences and EVERY society knows that sex makes money, just as narcotics do - therefore the Thai government are the prime cause of this problem.

Regarding the age issue, we as westerners should remember that the most famous underage sex in the world is the lynchpin of our cultural and religious ethics and morals - When Mary entered Bethlehem whilst 8+ months pregnant with Jesus, she was only 13 years old, and Joseph was in his late 30's (attested in Roman census records but little publicised or available to anyone without the most persistent investigation - originals are literally buried somewhere in the Vatican - Readers Digest did a feature on it about 20 years ago alongside an evaluation of the Turin Shroud).

The problem is therefore Millennia old, government authorised and endemic to cultures around the world, even western cultures (consider the southern US states and the "hill billy" regions). All we can do is be alert and observant and report suspicions to the relevant authorities - most police evidence files are only successful in court if there is sufficient "additional and background" evidence - i.e. enough reports from witnesses.

I would love to see this "problem" eradicated, but suspect that like drugs, it never will be.

Another specific factor here in Thailand is evidenced on a Thai government website - as of 2001, roughly 50% of the Thai population was under age 25, and in that 50%, over half of them were between age 10 and 15 - perhaps that is a contributory factor and as they age, the problem will reduce due to lack of candidates?

Let's hope so.

[Ajarn]

In the case of Dave Arthur, he did get set up from the group that is there, once Dave found out their true dealings, and this group was also under investigation. So in turn they themselves toss the buck right back on Dave's lap and got him out of there before he revealed to the authorities of those involved in Chiang Mai.

Sounds like you are simply quoting David A.... How do you know what happened? Got any facts?

[john b good]

Frankly I don't believe this article.

Its all a bit too clean and simple. I think its a bit of invention by a PC journalist who has an agenda and needs to get it of his/her chest.

If the facts so stated are true then why have people not been arrested and deported or at least taken in for an interview.

I think its all Bullshit.

ExpatFromHell..........

You are shown to be a "newbie" to the forum however, I (unlike others have tended to do from time to time in the past) will make no inferences (or try to shoot you down) regarding your membership status, as many (expats) have been in Thailand for a long time and only latterly got into posting on the forum (myself included)

And then you might have found yourself banned in the past and re-emerged with a different "handle"

However what you have written does tend to suggest that you might in fact not have been in the country very long at all. Either that or you have been wearing blinkers.

"Why have people not been arrested and deported"

Regarding the "arrested" bit, yes, you might not have seen too many arrested but it has happened, furthermore you might (should) ask the question why have Thai's who are the main perpetrators of this behaviour not been arrested??

And of course they (Thais) cannot be deported can they.

Spend a little bit of time talking to people (not just reading the forum) and you might become enlightened as to what the actual facts of the matter are in Thailand.

I can asure you it's not "bullsh*t" It's a long way removed from that, as the majority of the posters have testified.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

Having an unhealthy interest in children is something that should be treated with drugs and therapy - but acting on it is absoloute evil.

These men are not only screwing the kids literally, they are screwing their minds for life and they know this and don't seem to feel any remorse. In some ways it is worse then murder.

These men are tarnishing the image of the western man not only here but back home where the sneers that come from the misinformed nagative image of Thailand come from.

Reading the bit about the parents looking on morosely while their kids played on the lap of a phaedophile made me very sad.

Detention is a waste of time. Why is castration not an option? What the ###### is wrong with international laws?

Realistically they should be castrated, have a crippling fine which would go to a charity to compensate victims of child abuse and their families, and have their passports confiscated for life as well as have their faces staring from the front page of their local back home.

Unrealistically they should be beaten until their skull is the only unbroken bone in their body, then buried alive.

If I was a father then there would be an extended version of the above which would probably be removed by a moderator.

[Bluecat]

In the case of Dave Arthur, he did get set up from the group that is there, once Dave found out their true dealings, and this group was also under investigation. So in turn they themselves toss the buck right back on Dave's lap and got him out of there before he revealed to the authorities of those involved in Chiang Mai.

Sounds like you are simply quoting David A.... How do you know what happened? Got any facts?

Nobody got any.

Or maybe I missed them.

Anyway, no need to comment further,...

[ewart]

i feel sickened at what somepeople will do

[royar2002]

Was/is there a link between our own ex-Information Technology Manager and these "people"?

Of course it's a link beetween these people. The phaedophile rings is like another mafia. Stuck together and protect themself. In 70's and 80's they used to hang out in some of all phaedophilebars in Pattaya, but now it seems like they try to hide in remote areas around Chiang Mai. The last 20 years, police arrested many phaedophile in Thailand. Why is it so many Australians involved?

[maerim]

 

In case many of you somehow forgot, this crap has been going on for some time. In the case of Dave Arthur, he did get set up from the group that is there, once Dave found out their true dealings, and this group was also under investigation. So in turn they themselves toss the buck right back on Dave's lap and got him out of there before he revealed to the authorities of those involved in Chiang Mai.

This expert on the Chiang Mai crime scene lives in America, so he really has his finger on the pulse.

One can only guess as to where he gets his "facts" from.

[maitembot]

The last 20 years, police arrested many phaedophile in Thailand. Why is it so many Australians involved?

Huh? Ever looked closely at the mug of most Aussie adult women??...

[Tornado]

over 1100 views in the space of 9 hours with only 20 replies in 9 hours

I think the boys up north are getting a tad scared that they might be outed on this forum........................... Maybe we should start a thread and call it "pedos in Chiangmai" as I think that would get a few views

[maerim]

Huh? Ever looked closely at the mug of most Aussie adult women??...

Please enlighten us what on Earth that has to do with sexually abusing young children?

This post has nearly two thousand views along with other post regarding you know who the last one knocked on the head by p1p.

This topic is probably the most interesting and relevant one on here so if you don't mention you know who it might just get a fair crack of the whip.

[Tornado]

The last 20 years, police arrested many phaedophile in Thailand. Why is it so many Australians involved?

Huh? Ever looked closely at the mug of most Aussie adult women??...

I think you will find that a higher percentage is Germans.

[Bluecat]

The phaedophile rings is like another mafia. Stuck together and protect themself.

For this I agree.

Not so easy to get rid of them.

I have no solution, I'm sorry.

And since it is quite difficult to get rid of them. we comfort ourselves by getting rid of easier targets.

On the same grounds, of course.

Very powerful and emotional.

Works all the time.

Right or wrong, nobody cares.

At least, makes us feel good.

I mean some of us,...

[brahmburgers]

A dozen of my personal friends are ladies who got started way too early. All tell the same story.... a Chinese man paid a king's ransom to be the first.

For the most part, the girls grew up in remote villages, some walking around nud_e until 7 or 8 years old and being cared for by whomever gave them some scraps to eat - their parents too busy doing other things - probably tending to their favored sons. None of the girls had any impetus to go to school. One 'dad' sold his daughter at 11 years to a seamstress in BKK, then sold the her to a brothel a few years later. The parents (or legal guardians) should get their heads out of the duck shit and take a bit of "responsibility". I think that's a foreign word in Thai. And yes, the guardians should be locked up tight.

[mai_ra_bu_cheu]

I think the boys up north are getting a tad scared that they might be outed on this forum........................... Maybe we should start a thread and call it "pedos in Chiangmai" as I think that would get a few views

Great idea! Lets get rid of them.

Thing is you need proof. I see this guy I worked with 10 years ago on the BTS, always with 2 young girls (10 ish), not his genetic daughters. Real creepy looking guy, and was getting EVIL looks from a couple of Thai guys. I am pretty sure this guy is a perv, well I know he is a perv, and probably a paedophile.

What can we do? If only I had proof, but I wouldn't like to do anything unless I was 100% sure.

I'd love to give this guy's name, but it wouldn't be right, would it?

[Guest fj2003]

If I shoot them do I get arrested by the thai goverment or an extra 30 days on my visa. Oh ###### I will do for free.

i will go with you for war

i hate this kifi men who have no balls to hook on a ladi or boi in their age

so my baseball stick will fit to their brain and to their ass as long as they need to start smiling

and then send them back with a sticker in their passport but use the iron 8

ich muss kotzen

[maerim]

I'd love to give this guy's name, but it wouldn't be right, would it?

No it most certainly would not be right.

Some time ago in the U.K. the tabloid newspapers had a great way of boosting circulation, name and shame sex offenders now most of these believe or not don't live in big houses with huge incomes but when they finally get out of prison live on sink estates.

Their neighbours short on brain cells but quick on the vigilante wagon have actually killed some of these men.

If you want to give it to someone give it to the relevant authorities.

[pop3]

It is my strong belief that most of the pedofile's in Thailand hide behind the respectability of a charity, and that there is a lot more people involved in it than you would think !

[wolf5370]

I love Chiang Mai. I visit it when I get the chance (Am usually either in BKK or the UK). I usually stay in Lai Thai when I'm up there. There's this little entertainment place just through the old city gates (opposite the university book shop and across the canal/moat/whatever). This is a friendly place with many open air bars all facing a central square with a boxing ring in it. They do Muay Thai shows and Lady Boy shows there most nights, and its nice to sit and watch while sipping a beer (and escaping the April heat wave in BKK).

There are often the little flower sellers walking about. I am usually propped up at a table with the Mrs (Thai), my son (farrang) and two farang-noi daughters. I have often bought flowers from them - usually part of a bet (they always whip my arse a connect-4, which is mildly annoying as I seem to be able to beat everyone except these little girls). They always seem happy and jolly, and take delight in thrashing me and winning a 10 baht flower purchase (wife gets the flowers).

I am devastated to think some b*stards are doing something to these little princesses - it truly makes my blood boil! I will not rant about what should be done to them, because it is a pipe dream. Certainly farrangs should be deported, reported to their respective embassies and have there passport blocked.

I know a little girl (sorry knew) that lived next door to a my wife when we were courting. She came to my wedding party with her mother. She was 12 then. My wife told me that both her and her mother were Aids sufferers. This was because their father/husband used to get drunk whoring after work, and come home to which ever of the two he fancied. He got Aids from a Pro,. and gave it to his wife and daughter. My wife found out when the police arrested him - the family had never said anything. Apparently he knew he had Aids, but kept raping his family anyway. Last I heard he was still in jail (6 years ago). This is my only knowledge outside of the media and this forum (especially the ###### stuff) that I have of it. In this case the police acted on a tip off straight away. Tests confirmed that they all had Aids, and both he. the mum and the daughter told the police the circumstances in interviews. They were all Thai.

I know Thais take child crime really seriously. I remember a while back a guy high on something grabbed a 3 year old kid and held a knife to his neck. The police and neighbours surrounded him. When he eventually let the kid go, the locals kicked seven colours out of him. The police where obviously far to busy getting the child back to his mother to have noticed! He didn't get away after though as I remember. The photos showed him red with his own blood.

If you have suspicions, then let the cops know. Do it through contacts or friends, or anomalously via a note (in Thai - get the Mrs/GF to write it) - send copies to several local policemen of rank, the headquarters and local politicians etc - and list the CCs on each copy. Use good quality paper and envelope and post it (rather than hand deliver). They will then be forced to move just in case so as not to loose face latter if the perp gets caught. Only do this if you are sure - but can't prove it (or can, but doubt it will get anywhere) as this would not be a nice thing to do to an innocent!

Please, please don't let these animals get away with it - Thai, farrang, Japanese - whatever.

[wolf5370]

PS: Someone mentioned Garry Glitter up above. If I remember correctly, he was dissallowed entry in to Thailand last year (year before?) from Cambodia due to the British Gov letting the Thai Authorities in on his record.