Ending A Gay Relationship

[peter991]

I don't want to go into details at this point - but I wonder if ending a relationship between a gay farang male and a gay Thai guy is any different in Thailand than it would be in the West.

We have been in a relationship for 3 years - as far as I am concerned, it's over. I still love HIM, but not his ACTIONS.

Is there a way to 'walk' away with dignity for both of us?

Suggestions, please.

Peter

[expatwannabe]

No, ending relationships is not the same. When a Thai 'marries' a foreigner, they usually expect it to be for life IMHO.

Suicides in Thailand usually result from love affairs gone awry.

Please be very, very careful whatever you do.

[jingjoe]

Crikey Pete, been following some of your posts, and I'm very sorry to see things have turned gone sour.

Tell him he broke your heart, and you DO NOT allow someone to do that to you.

Wish him luck with his new sweetheart, and let him know you'll always remember the happy times you had together.

Then erase the bloke (especially his msn messenger details) from your memory ASAP, there's no going back when things get this way.

[toptuan]

Is he with you in Aussie land, or are you presently in LOS with him? The living circumstances would have a critical bearing on how you break up, IMHO.

[farang prince]

I don't want to go into details at this point - but I wonder if ending a relationship between a gay farang male and a gay Thai guy is any different in Thailand than it would be in the West.

We have been in a relationship for 3 years - as far as I am concerned, it's over. I still love HIM, but not his ACTIONS.

Is there a way to 'walk' away with dignity for both of us?

Suggestions, please.

Peter

Peter, sorry to hear that the relationship can't be repaired. I'm still with my original Thai lover, so I'm a little limited on personal experience-related advice. However, seeing other relationships come to an end, most of the time it is emotional and messy. If I were to go through it, I would provide my lover with enough money to get through an adjustment period. And I would make it plain that it was over and to stay away from me.

[dukkha]

My sentiments exactly Prince of Farangs..it is OVER, time to move on..how blessed I am

after more than two years with Samran, and each morning I wake with him beside me I thank the

Lord Buddha that I am stiill loved, cared for and exceedingy happy..Peter's story is not an uncommon one but I have offered him some words of compassion...oh how we are taken by the Lads of LOS..took me 5 years to understand both myself here and the nature of thai/farang relationships...one should not generalise about these r/ships, they are different for all of us, the heart is what we should listen to, certainly not the rantings of farangs on TVisa and who are so willing to tell us when, how, when and where we act...surely we all dance to the beat of a differnt drum..know oneself and then all possiblities are open...Dukkha

[expatwannabe]

If I were to go through it, I would provide my lover with enough money to get through an adjustment period.

Good On You!

[peter991]

I am going with Farang Prince's suggestion to provide my ex-lover with enough money to adjust. It will be a one-off last payment.

I have returned to Australia. He is back home in his Issan village. I sat down when I returned home 2 days ago and considered my options - which were:

(a) Cut him off completely - as I was (and I still am) quite angry with him.

( Make a final 'divorce' settlement payment - which I will do (and then cancel his ATM card).

© Try and patch up the relationship - as we have been together for 3 years.

I think the reason I have decided to split with him comes down to the fact I expected too much from the relationship. I know the heirarchy of Thai relationships -- Buddha, family, boyfriend.

In his case - there was a large gap between first and last. It wasn't that way to start with - but things have rapidly deteriorated.

I am lucky I have a Thai 'son' who is educated, with a good job. He doesn't drink or smoke and is very quietly spoken. Neither of us wants to rush into a relationship - we are happy to be close friends.

Peter

[farang prince]

I am going with Farang Prince's suggestion to provide my ex-lover with enough money to adjust. It will be a one-off last payment.

I have returned to Australia. He is back home in his Issan village. I sat down when I returned home 2 days ago and considered my options - which were:

(a) Cut him off completely - as I was (and I still am) quite angry with him.

( Make a final 'divorce' settlement payment - which I will do (and then cancel his ATM card).

© Try and patch up the relationship - as we have been together for 3 years.

I think the reason I have decided to split with him comes down to the fact I expected too much from the relationship. I know the heirarchy of Thai relationships -- Buddha, family, boyfriend.

In his case - there was a large gap between first and last. It wasn't that way to start with - but things have rapidly deteriorated.

I am lucky I have a Thai 'son' who is educated, with a good job. He doesn't drink or smoke and is very quietly spoken. Neither of us wants to rush into a relationship - we are happy to be close friends.

Peter

Peter, I wish you well. Breaking up is never easy and you have invested three years in your relationship. At the same time, why invest any more time if you feel the relationship is going sour. I would suggest that you call your ex-B/F (after cutting off the ATM card which I would do tomorrow) and explain what you are doing and why. I broke up with a wonderful young Chinese lover of mine in this fashion and it worked out well for both of us. He was ready to move on and I knew it. I gave him some living money while he found a new place and got some furniture. And then that was it. Over the years we have remained friends but I resisted getting back together again (after he found that maybe I was pretty special after all) because once it is over, it is over.

[expatwannabe]

A slight aside:..

I have been with my bf for almost 7 years. There have been several times when I thought maybe it would be easier to start over. There are, after all, so many Thai guys who want a foreign boyfriend. I resisted taking the easy way out, though, because I'm more mature now than I was when I was younger. Relationships are never easy. Anyway, I committed long ago to buy my partner a house because he's given up the best working years of his life in order to be with me. I traveled a lot, and every time I came to Thailand, he had to quit his job in order to take a 'vacation' with me. As a result, he gave at least as much to our relationship, and if we ever decided to split up, I wouldn't want to impoverish him. He's a great guy and deserves to be treated as such. I sort of equate it to "common law property" in the U.S. If we had been married, he'd have been entitled to half of what I earned. So for me, it's just part of being fair.

[FranklyNoMore]

Of course its very easy for TV posters to say move on but in reality it can be a different ball game. Saying it is over to him and moving on depends on how willing he is going to accpet it. If he is then you will have few problems except dealing with your own emotions. If he isnt willing to let go then you could start making problems for yourself. Once he realises the goose that laid the golden eggs has gone then maybe he\'ll come knocking again. If he does beware. If he doesnt then hopefully you can move on and learn another of life\'s lessons. Good luck

[PeaceBlondie]

peter991, sorry to hear the bad news, but maybe it isn't all bad. Follow the best advice, and when you return to Thailand, look elsewhere. Such as, not in the same city, or in the same kind of venue.

[ProThaiExpat]

From what I have gathered from your posts, peter991, you were basically in a "overseas" relationship, most of the time apart. Once you got him to Australia and lived "cheek and jowl" the dynamics were certainly different.

Many U.S. Navy personnel have lifelong relationships, with the "sailor" at sea half the time. Many have told me that it really gets rough around the house when they are near time to go to sea again. We all have heard of divorces among recently retired long time marrieds who just can't get along on the new dynamic of constant companionship.

My joy is my Thai mate and I are together most of the day and we get along wonderfully. Mostly because he is so understanding. We find it very difficult to be apart for a week or two when our responsibilities demand and we avoid those times as much as possible. Many would find a relationship like ours too stultifying.

In my view, it is really the luck of the draw. I was very lucky. Many are not. I really don't think you can judge the temperature of the bathwater until you get in.

You did and not it is time to throw the water out with the baby.

[jdinasia]

Peter ....

I just don't think it will be that big of an issue over time for you. Learn from this mistake and move on! Remember JD's #1 rule for dating in Thailand! Don't date someone here that you wouldn't date at home!

BTW .. you don't owe any financial compensation! You have taken care of that already!

[vreemd13]

I am surprised to read this topic about breaking up. Not long ago this relationship showed only positive sides, reading your own reports. But maybe I missed a part.

You have trusted a person for 3 years and supported him each month with a reasonable amount of money. In the past you have shown enough respect towards him to maintain this relationship for the long future. If you wish to finish this relationship, it is finished. In my opinion: if you are paying a last amount of money you are not finishing the relationship right now, but wishing to continue the relationship whenever he wants (as a friend or boyfriend). Therefore I disagree to act noble and pay a last time amount of money. Pay more at this moment is not showing him to say goodbye forever. Furnishing him a financial compensation to finish, is telling him to keep in contact, whenever it pleases him. Him is your partner you are still in love at this moment. Are you sure you want to finish this relationship completely? If you are 100% sure, stop the cash flow right now! Life is hard for everybody, including yourself.

Wish you good luck, with a difficult decision how to break up nicely.

Edited June 29, 2007 by vreemd13

[Jimjim]

Is ending a gay relationship different than a non-gay relationship?

[endure]

Is ending a gay relationship different than a non-gay relationship?

Emotionally - no. Legally - depends on where you live.

[Kaojai]

A slight aside:..

I have been with my bf for almost 7 years. There have been several times when I thought maybe it would be easier to start over. ... So for me, it's just part of being fair.

Have to agree. No two relationships are going to be the same, but in most of these situations the farang has a lot more appealing options available to him post-breakup than will the Thai.

If the Thai guy has deliberately behaved in a way that he knew would put the relationship in jeopardy, then he should be prepared to deal with the consequences, but if it's a matter of growing tired of him or becoming bored with him because you can't sit around discussing things which are totally alien to his experience, then I think you really have to weigh the impact of what you are doing.

I too have sometimes felt that life would be easier and freer for me if we parted company, but I am also aware that for him it would be quite the opposite. We've had any number of misunderstandings over the years, but that's what they were quite literally in most cases ...misunderstandings, very often me misinterpreting something.

It may very well be best for you both to end the relationship, and that can be messy & emotional & acrimonious here, but do spend awhile fully considering the ramifications for you both, and keep in mind that it's very likely to cause more pain (in one form or another) for him than for you.

[Espada]

last time i heard about your story that was the day he fly to Australia and you'll pick him up at the airport. sorry to here all those situation. i'm not follow up this board for while.

well, to end relationship for sure it must be very deeply hurt. after all time and everything you have done together, can't take it back!

sometime just to try the hard way will lead to something that amazing output ( in this case may be good or may be worst.)

to find someone new at the moment not suggest at all... but later you should.

i was in 4 years relationship with farang guy. we have both great and terrible experience together. also my first relationship and he is my first guy that i really give all love for him. even though we are no longer soul-mate anymore but i still wishes the best for him. ( guess i talk too much about myself.)

well, i hope everything going in the right way for you. sometime it too difficult but you will make it through.

[Krub]

I am going with Farang Prince's suggestion to provide my ex-lover with enough money to adjust. It will be a one-off last payment.

I think the reason I have decided to split with him comes down to the fact I expected too much from the relationship. I know the heirarchy of Thai relationships -- Buddha, family, boyfriend.

In his case - there was a large gap between first and last. It wasn't that way to start with - but things have rapidly deteriorated.

I am lucky I have a Thai 'son' who is educated, with a good job. He doesn't drink or smoke and is very quietly spoken. Neither of us wants to rush into a relationship - we are happy to be close friends.

Peter

Peter,

I am sorry to hear that your relationship has gone sour.

It seemed 'strange' that your Thai did not stay the full visa time allowed in Australia.

As you have been suporting him for the last 3 years asking him to stay in the village to take care of your house and his family, I also would give him some breathing space with a last payment making sure he understands it will be the last.

I think itis only fair as you are initiating the break.

It will be difficult to break but you already have a bright light with your Thai 'son' who seems to be a great guy

Wishing you luck in this very difficult period

[pauleddy]

I can relate to the post about being bored cos' you can't discuss stuff outside of their experience.

I am in a real dilemma. I am a 50 yo westerner, postgrad quals, uni job, money in bank, nice rented place. He is from up-country, 30ish, works in an office, keeps house too, not a gold-digger in any obvious way, although, like anyone, enjoys the ''trappings" (I guess that's fair enough). I pay for most of the big stuff, rent, food etc but he pays taxis, some dinners and stuff. We met in a bar about 18 months ago. We dated for a bit until he moved in. I have had b-fs in the USA and Europe (3 years, 5 years etc) altho for him I'm the first "main" one (he lived a sheltered life outside of town). Recently I had to go home to the US for two months, and he didn't play around or anything (I have sources).

Most of the time we get on well, and I really can't fault the way he looks after me...almost ashamed of it!! He loves me a lot and does anything I ask. I can play discreetly if I go to a bathhouse alone...I have done (he knows) , but don't do it much. One problem is that he is a bottom, and I veer towards being one: I am 80-20 bottom, maybe. But, we manage Ok in that area, most of the time.

He is a wonderful guy, and I should be very grateful. But, apart from the above problem, there is a lack of rapport. Yes, he has a degree and is not stoopid, although his English is very labored, and doesn't seem to improve. Also, although he is wonderful to me, it can be like living with a child (Thai thing??)... there is a lack of worldly-wise stuff, and even of common sense.

I have been around, and I know that there is no Mr 100pc Right. But, things are getting tough, and I am getting bored. I admitted to my best friend (when he and I were drunk) that I can't see this lasting. On the other hand, my head tells me that I am 50, not in shape...and that love is a phoney teenage dream.......well, I mean that, if you find someone who is good to you, takes care of you and tries hard, then that's a good deal. I don't wanna be alone again.

He is faithful 100pc, kind, not a grabber, cute, u name it. Also, I know that it would really break his heart if we split.

What is the acid test? What are the criteria here? It's easy to comment about other people's stuff, but I can't work this out. I know that one or two may comment that I am western, colonialist, taking advantage etc. but I genuinely care for him, and, dare say, love him/have strong feelings for him (whatever). But, I feel that I am just digging a deeper hole for myself over time.

I don't need to return to the US or Europe. No deadlines.

Any advice? PM or public, I don't mind.

[farang prince]

Maintaining a successful Farang/Thai relationship is difficult for a variety of reasons. They include language and cultural issues, often age and life experience differences and usually financial disparities. And that's before you even get into the personalities of the couple.

After reading your post PaulEddy, it would seem these difficulties permeate your relationship. From your description of your Thai lover, it seems you have a very good partner...in fact many of the gay posters in ThaiVisa would kill to find a guy like the one you have. I don't think the problem is him. I think it is you.

You say you can't converse with him because his English "is labored." Do you speak Thai? Have you tried to learn to speak Thai? You would be amazed at how the shyest Thai becomes animated when they speak their own language. You have compounded the problem by getting into a relationship from someone who is from "up country." How could you even begin to anticipate that he would be sophisticated and worldly?

And how could you make the mistake of being with a bottom when you are primarily a bottom? Two bottoms don't make a top. You obviously had plenty of time to determine this before you moved in together. What were you thinking?

The bottom line is that I don't have much empathy for you. You are 50 years old, worldly and well educated. In other words you have been around the block. But you brought this young Thai man into your life based on either false assumptions or lusty fantasies and now you want out. My sympathies go with him. The genie is out of the bottle and he doesn't even know it yet. His heart is going to be broken and all he did was give you all he had. Shame on you....

[Krub]

I am mostly with farang prince on this one but a little diluted as it takes two for a relationship. Your Thai also jumped in the relationship although he knew you were 2 bottoms.

I also cannot see it last much longer and the earliest the better if you already feel as you describe. He needs to be able to find another partner, same as you but it woll be 100 times harder for him than for you.

Tlak it over and please do not send him of without making sure he can 'survive' decently for half a year without your help especially if he left his job or moved regions for you.

Good luck to both of you but as I said my feelings go towards your Thai.

[pauleddy]

Thanks to both for yr replies, which were truly helpful.

I didn't 'ensnare' the guy. At the beginning, he was very keen/perhaps more than me. I guess that this was the usual kudos thing that some Thais have (find a farang with a good job). He was cute, and very nice, obviously a good person and not money-money...so I went along with it.

The bit about learning Thai is 100% correct. I should. However, with my current other involvements, it could take 5 or 6 years. OK, his English isn't hot, but my Thai is....nil. We manage to get by in English but it frustrates me. All of our friends speak English also. I have no excuse. When I met him, I was not an old-timer. I had been here only two months. That's my excuse.

Re the "bottom" thing, we are neither of us into penetrative sex much. When I need that, I go to a bath-house...not often. He understands. I NEVER bring anyone home, or get involved "deeply" with other boys.

I don't regard myself as the big bad wolf here...I got into something, just like we all do, and then time slipped by, and now I have to ask for objective advice. If we split, I will also be terribly hurt...and will help him out with a sum of money.

[PeaceBlondie]

PaulEddy, I think I know where you're coming from. Not to get too personal, but your situation resembles mine in many ways. I don't see how long the two of you have been together, though.

I'm a pragmatist: whatever works is real. Our relationship works for us. Is this working for both of you? Can you at least spend time helping him with his English, and you learn basic Thai? I'm fortunate to have a partner who spoke fairly good English when we met four years ago, and we communicate very well about things. I noted today that sometimes his substitute English words are so good that I've forgotten the original English words!

As for the top/bottom thing, without getting more graphic, I've decided that all gay Thais that I've met are versatile. It might take years to see it, though.

[Scott]

I once broke up with my mate of 20 years. I was being a real a*hole--drinking, whoring around, etc. He kept threatening and then finally one day said he couldn't take it any more. I said OK.

I agreed to help him, because I didn't want to move (the apartment was in his name). He rented a small place not far away. We split up some of the household items (he got what I didn't want).

It was rather civil, but painful at a deeper level.

The evening of the split, we had an old friend from out of the country coming whom we had agreed to have dinner with. We met with him and had an enjoyable evening (with our friend --not necessarily with one another).

At the end of the evening, he came and said "I think I've made a big mistake; can I move back in?" I said "sure." He moved back and we've been together ever since.

Thus our breakup was only a matter of hours!

My point on this is that financially I did help him out (and I would again). His overall devotion and caring did not deserve to be punished. He had given up a lot, I had given up very little. He certainly didn't 1/2, but I don't think I could live with myself if I put someone out on the street.

Remember courts do award people for their time/energy and devotion and they do so in accordance with the lifestyle they've grown accustomed to.

[neilrob]

Replying to Pauleddy, and following up a bit on what Scott says, my experience is that even strong relationships go through really rocky periods. The only way to have a relationship which endures is to push though such periods to the other side. The question for any given relationship is, of course, whether there is another side worth getting to, or if it just gets worse. From what Pauleddy says, and since he asks for advice, I suggest he gives it a few more months. If, after say three or four months, his doubts are just as strong, or stronger, then they should split. If there are signs of improvement in the way he feels, then push on through. During this period, he should work on the langage thing, particularly by asking his BF to help him learn Thai. Don't overdo it, or expect to be much better at the language after a few months, but it will help to have it as a shared project.

Best of luck, Neil

[pauleddy]

Thanks to all of you. The spectrum of opinion is interesting, and all opinions have been valid.

PB-we have been together for 15 months.

Any further comments welcomed eagerly!

I have now hinted to him that there are some problems, as I don't believe it's fair to go on playing dumb. It remains to be seen whether we can sort this. In a way I hope so. He has said that he will stay with me forever. Maybe Thais commit like that. I never promised that to any of past BFs, cos I know that life changes.

[dukkha]

He is who he is, you are who you are...take it from there and dont

bother listening to everyone who has some advice for you.................

]every relationship, as you well know, is different, only you can

figure it out...listen to your heart, not the other organs of your body..the

bottom line is...if you are not comfortable then it is not for you..

switch on your gaydar...it does work I can attest to it..no honesty,

no trust, then no relationship is my mantra..buddha be with you..

Dukkha

[Krub]

He is who he is, you are who you are...take it from there and dont

bother listening to everyone who has some advice for you.................

]every relationship, as you well know, is different, only you can

figure it out...listen to your heart, not the other organs of your body..the

bottom line is...if you are not comfortable then it is not for you..

switch on your gaydar...it does work I can attest to it..no honesty,

no trust, then no relationship is my mantra..buddha be with you..

Dukkha

I agree with most of what you say but he should also listen to 'other' parts of hisbody as all parts are important for a LTR.

I once tried to continue a relationship which was perfect except for the intimate physical part. It has ended as although the physical part can be found outside of the relationship it is not easy to balance for both.

Looking back, ending early is much easier than later