Global Correction

[midas]

Sorry, I get frustrated with junior high economic theories and silly statements. When you ask the individual to back up their claim, they just ramble on about things of no consequence.

But siamamerican hold on !! When I quote the many books that I have read about

American geopolitics and economics and how it's undergone some significant changes

( by the way I'm not referring to this specific subject that we are debating right now being

the apparent wealth of the USA ) you instantly discount those also an accuse me of anti-American

bashing and tell me to go and read other things

Even when the vast majority of what I have read were incidentally written

by your own fellow countrymen . They unlike you recognise Americas weaknesses.

Jeez it's impossible to win with you siamamerican ?

So if you don't believe what some of these intellectuals have written and you don't believe information on

Internet sites where should we get our information from ? Please enlighten us

[midas]

Midas this quote clears it up somewhat.

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -Woodrow Wilson, after signing the Federal Reserve into existence

Thanks beenthere. I've never read this passage before.

Is it too much of a generalisation or is it naive of me to ask the question has this directly or indirectly shaped

America's Middle East policy ? I think you'll know what I mean ?

[Pakboong]

Midas this quote clears it up somewhat.

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -Woodrow Wilson, after signing the Federal Reserve into existence

Thanks beenthere. I've never read this passage before.

Is it too much of a generalisation or is it naive of me to ask the question has this directly or indirectly shaped

America's Middle East policy ? I think you'll know what I mean ?

Midas, the simple fact that you had to ask the question in this manner, speaks volumes.

Edited November 14, 2008 by Pakboong

[Naam]

I forgot, few in this forum care about data.

some care and say "GDP as well as GDP/Capita = Bullshit²!"

[flying]

Thanks for the advice, but I've lived quite the incredible life being myself.

Classic........ sad but Classic

[midas]

Midas this quote clears it up somewhat.

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -Woodrow Wilson, after signing the Federal Reserve into existence

Thanks beenthere. I've never read this passage before.

Is it too much of a generalisation or is it naive of me to ask the question has this directly or indirectly shaped

America's Middle East policy ? I think you'll know what I mean ?

Midas, the simple fact that you had to ask the question in this manner, speaks volumes.

[midas]

I forgot, few in this forum care about data.

some care and say "GDP as well as GDP/Capita = Bullshit²!"

Oh Naam you are classic - that night on the town was good for you

[Naam]

I forgot, few in this forum care about data.

some care and say "GDP as well as GDP/Capita = Bullshit²!"

Oh Naam you are classic - that night on the town was good for you

i did not participate

[LaoPo]

LaoPo:

But there are more EU countries without -overvalued- real estate problems than there are with.

Still waiting for the data to support this claim.

Oh come one SA, you're behaving like a small boy who didn't get his cookie.

You are constantly comparing the USA with Europe and you kind of want us to know that in your view the US is better off in this crisis or has higher/lower real estate prices and problems than Europe. You also want data as mentioned above.

Do you realize that there are 29 EU countries and more outside the EU, speaking a large numbers of languages ?

Well, I suggest you do a study yourself to prove for yourself what's right and what's wrong and stop behaving like a small angry boy who didn't get that cookie.

LaoPo

[Pakboong]

"The G-20’s Secret Debt Solution"

It would be a strategy designed to ease the burden of ALL debts - by simultaneously devaluing ALL currencies ... and re-inflating ALL asset prices.

That’s what central banks and governments around the world are going to start talking about this weekend - a new financial order that includes new monetary units that helps to wipe clean the world’s debt ledgers.

It won’t be an easy deal to broker, since the U.S. is the world’s largest debtor. But remember: Debts are now going bad all over the world. So everyone would benefit.

Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke ... Treasury Secretary Paulson ... President Bush ... President-elect Obama ... former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker ... Warren Buffett ... and central bankers and politicians all over the world agree a new monetary system is needed.

So they’ll start hashing out the details to get the new financial architecture deployed as quickly as possible.

http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/11.08/solution.html

[Naam]

"The G-20’s Secret Debt Solution"

It would be a strategy designed to ease the burden of ALL debts - by simultaneously devaluing ALL currencies ... and re-inflating ALL asset prices.

That’s what central banks and governments around the world are going to start talking about this weekend - a new financial order that includes new monetary units that helps to wipe clean the world’s debt ledgers.

It won’t be an easy deal to broker, since the U.S. is the world’s largest debtor. But remember: Debts are now going bad all over the world. So everyone would benefit.

Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke ... Treasury Secretary Paulson ... President Bush ... President-elect Obama ... former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker ... Warren Buffett ... and central bankers and politicians all over the world agree a new monetary system is needed.

So they’ll start hashing out the details to get the new financial architecture deployed as quickly as possible.

http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/11.08/solution.html

which will come into effect immediately after héll freezes over

Edited November 14, 2008 by Naam

[Naam]

http://www.silverbearcafe.com/ = :D

[midas]

http://www.silverbearcafe.com/ = :D

did you post for siamamerican ?

[midas]

LaoPo:

But there are more EU countries without -overvalued- real estate problems than there are with.

Still waiting for the data to support this claim.

Oh come one SA, you're behaving like a small boy who didn't get his cookie.

You are constantly comparing the USA with Europe and you kind of want us to know that in your view the US is better off in this crisis or has higher/lower real estate prices and problems than Europe. You also want data as mentioned above.

Do you realize that there are 29 EU countries and more outside the EU, speaking a large numbers of languages ?

Well, I suggest you do a study yourself to prove for yourself what's right and what's wrong and stop behaving like a small angry boy who didn't get that cookie.

LaoPo

You could just imagine SA as kid in the school yard " my dad's got a better job than your dad

and our house is bigger than yours "

Edited November 14, 2008 by midas

[Naam]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - As world leaders headed to Washington for a weekend summit on the global financial crisis, the United States made a pitch for modest reforms instead of the stiffer regulation that some European countries favor.

"The crisis was not a failure of the free market system," President George W. Bush told a New York audience on Thursday ahead of a Friday night dinner and meeting on Saturday of the heads of the Group of 20 developed and emerging nations.

The greater threat to prosperity is "not too little government involvement, it is too much government involvement in the market," Bush said.

The message may ring hollow with some G20 countries that say under-regulated U.S. financial industries effectively exported to the global economy a crisis that originated in reckless U.S. mortgage lending.

Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva said last weekend in Sao Paulo, where G20 finance ministers met, that the world economic order "collapsed like a house of cards" because of a "dogmatic faith in non-intervention in markets."

Brazil, which holds this year's G20 chairmanship, is one of the key emerging-market nations joining leaders from the old-line Group of Seven rich nations for talks that implicitly acknowledge the rapidly growing emerging powers now deserve a bigger say in how global finance operates.

Others include China, India, South Africa and South Korea.

NEW GROWTH ENGINES

As leading G7 economies like the United States and Germany sink into recession, emerging markets are seen as potential sources of growth that may bring a recovery, though not soon.

"We are going to have to face up to a very difficult and long-lasting economic crisis," Germany's deputy economy minister, Walther Otremba, told Reuters. Germany's economy, Europe's largest, shrank by 0.5 percent in the third quarter to put Germany in recession for the first time in five years.

The G20 meeting, coming with only two months left for the Bush administration, has not generated high expectations.

But participants said the devastation wrought on household wealth, corporate balance sheets and government budgets by the financial crisis made it urgent to at least begin charting a course for avoiding similar disasters in future.

A French official who declined to be named said a statement to be issued by the leaders at the end of their talks on Saturday would offer "a precise timetable" for action.

"Be prepared for a read that gives you a headache. The words and ideas are very technical. ... It is concrete and substantial," the official said.

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown claimed on Wednesday that there was growing support for measures to tap government budgets around the world to help economies weather the crisis, and he indicated he might press that theme at the summit.

Also up for discussion is how to step up the role of global institutions, especially the International Monetary Fund, as monitors of financial system activity and lenders to troubled nations.

SKEPTICS ON IMF

But countries from Asia to Latin American have some bitter memories of past instances in which the IMF imposed stiff conditions on offers of help. It is unclear whether the rich countries that have large shares in IMF governance will yield to let emerging powers play a bigger role.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy on Thursday indicated he sees the summit as a chance to begin a fundamental reordering of global financial power. It is to be the first in a series of such meetings, with the next in the first quarter of 2009 after U.S. President-elect Barack Obama is inaugurated.

Sarkozy said the U.S. dollar, the linchpin of the global economic system since 1944, shouldn't have the dominance it once did and said he will make that point, although a French official said a closing statement will not make any reference to currencies.

"I am leaving for Washington to explain that the dollar, which after the Second World War was the only currency in the world, can no longer claim to be the only currency in the world," he said. "What was true in 1945 cannot be true today.

[lordofdelusion]

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/u_s_h...out_of_business

Another internet source. Must be true!

I'm thinking about bidding on a western state.

[midas]

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/u_s_h...out_of_business

Another internet source. Must be true!

I'm thinking about bidding on a western state.

Yep good idea lord !! devolution worked in Scotland

why not have 50 new countries

[churchill]

The US seems to think that the rest of the world has to keep supporting them ,they seem to say - if they go down everyone goes down . So China etc cannot afford to stop buying US treasuries .

I think China by anouncing the stimulas package mainly to invest internally on infrastructure etc is taking the opportunity to keep its economy going even if the US goes into recession .

In time the Far East alone will surely have more spending power than the US .

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/u_s_h...out_of_business

Another internet source. Must be true!

I'm thinking about bidding on a western state.

Wonder what Hawaii will be going for?

[stumonster]

I think China by anouncing the stimulas package mainly to invest internally on infrastructure etc is taking the opportunity to keep its economy going even if the US goes into recession .

and signing contracts in USD while it is still high - a good use of those USD reserves

selling clean food to the Chinese middle class is where Thailand could be positioning itself.

I heard a lot of Chinese visitors to Singapore are buying milk powder - nice souvenir

[flying]

Wonder what Hawaii will be going for?

I have always felt Hawaii should recede from the USA

We never wanted to be a part of the US they just kind of shuffled in & took over.

We would do way better being removed from the USA . We would do better by renting land & harbor to the highest bidder. I bet they would pay a nice rent on Pearl Harbor etc.

[ray23]

China Right / US wrong

Basically that is what article says and I think they are right. Its' WPA time again. Bush doesn't see it its' not a part of his fantacy world. I can only hope that Obama realizes what got us through the depression it was a lesson that really needs to be thought about these days.

To heck with failign corporations, Banks, Wall street, they are not the answer that waht go us in trouble, they v can only offer more problems. The something for nothing approach.

Put people to work rebuild America and come out swinging. Paper willl always be paper bridges get people to work factories allows them to work. Get real.

http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?opti...&Itemid=590

[soundman]

Numerous posts and replies have been removed for flaming, name calling and baiting.

Please keep it clean and respect each others views.

This is a good topic/thread, I would hate to see it closed due to everybody bickering.

Soundman.

[ray23]

Interesting read, the only thing I will say the last thing I want to do now is borrow money

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JK14Dj01.html

[midas]

Interesting read, the only thing I will say the last thing I want to do now is borrow money

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JK14Dj01.html

ray what I don't understand if America is the most powerful country on earth

and yet doesnt have the power to ask the Fed where and how the $700 billion

is being spent

surely it's now time to blow the lid sky high on exactly who and what is behind the Federal Reserve?

The American public is being asked to finance this bailout surely in return it's not too much

for them to ask to know all the details of where the money is going and yet

members of Congress can't even get the details? It's ludicrous and unbelievable.

I can understand there needs to be secrecy regarding the CIA and FBI for national

security purposes but what in the world entiltes a group of private bankers

to extract $700 billion from the American public and then say " please do not ask any questions "

Edited November 15, 2008 by midas

[Pakboong]

Interesting read, the only thing I will say the last thing I want to do now is borrow money

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JK14Dj01.html

ray what I don't understand if America is the most powerful country on earth

and yet doesnt have the power to ask the Fed where and how the $700 billion

is being spent

surely it's now time to blow the lid sky high on exactly who and what is behind the Federal Reserve?

The American public is being asked to finance this bailout surely in return it's not too much

for them to ask to know all the details of where the money is going and yet

members of Congress can't even get the details? It's ludicrous and unbelievable.

I can understand there needs to be secrecy regarding the CIA and FBI for national

security purposes but what in the world entiltes a group of private bankers

to extract $700 billion from the American public and then say " please do not ask any questions "

Ron Paul ran on the idea of dropping the Federal Reserve and restoring control back to the people but the people have no idea what-so-ever why that is something so important for the future of their children. Paul got nowhere with this campaign.

[midas]

Interesting read, the only thing I will say the last thing I want to do now is borrow money

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JK14Dj01.html

ray what I don't understand if America is the most powerful country on earth

and yet doesnt have the power to ask the Fed where and how the $700 billion

is being spent

surely it's now time to blow the lid sky high on exactly who and what is behind the Federal Reserve?

The American public is being asked to finance this bailout surely in return it's not too much

for them to ask to know all the details of where the money is going and yet

members of Congress can't even get the details? It's ludicrous and unbelievable.

I can understand there needs to be secrecy regarding the CIA and FBI for national

security purposes but what in the world entiltes a group of private bankers

to extract $700 billion from the American public and then say " please do not ask any questions "

Ron Paul ran on the idea of dropping the Federal Reserve and restoring control back to the people but the people have no idea what-so-ever why that is something so important for the future of their children. Paul got nowhere with this campaign.

I am not even American but " these people " have a gag order for everything they

are involved with. Its no wonder the average Us citizen is not aware of this

because certain people we wont mention say NOTHING they are

involved with should be openly discussed. Now I am finally understanding

the real " world order ". And we wonder

why some people in " other parts of the world " are so angry

[flying]

Interesting read, the only thing I will say the last thing I want to do now is borrow money

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JK14Dj01.html

ray what I don't understand if America is the most powerful country on earth

and yet doesnt have the power to ask the Fed where and how the $700 billion

is being spent

surely it's now time to blow the lid sky high on exactly who and what is behind the Federal Reserve?

The American public is being asked to finance this bailout surely in return it's not too much

for them to ask to know all the details of where the money is going and yet

members of Congress can't even get the details? It's ludicrous and unbelievable.

I can understand there needs to be secrecy regarding the CIA and FBI for national

security purposes but what in the world entiltes a group of private bankers

to extract $700 billion from the American public and then say " please do not ask any questions "

Ron Paul ran on the idea of dropping the Federal Reserve and restoring control back to the people but the people have no idea what-so-ever why that is something so important for the future of their children. Paul got nowhere with this campaign.

I am not even American but " these people " have a gag order for everything they

are involved with. Its no wonder the average Us citizen is not aware of this

because certain people we wont mention say NOTHING they are

involved with should be openly discussed. Now I am finally understanding

the real " world order ". And we wonder

why some people in " other parts of the world " are so angry

You know we as Americans generally have never heard about these things.

How the FED was started how our money is backed by basically a wing & a prayer.

These things are not taught in school. They are never spoken about on TV either.

It is too bad because I have forgotten now who said it but I believe it was a president that said something to the effect of it is a good thing the common folks dont understand this or there would be a revolution.

Who ever said it was correct but.... folks are suddenly learning & the second half of that statement could become a reality.

As for that 700 billion bail out...An awful lot of us were against it. We were not against working on the problem but the things you describe is what we did not want. They have a free hand yet again to spend with no justification to those who pay for it. Also they are free from further prosecution in the future if & when they may be accused of wrong.

We instead said no to our representatives & it showed in a defeated vote. Then they used fear to turn the sheeple once again in the direction they wanted.

Fine we will see where this goes. Hopefully they will remember how this country started & what we were escaping when it came to being.

Edited November 15, 2008 by flying

[midas]

Interesting read, the only thing I will say the last thing I want to do now is borrow money

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JK14Dj01.html

ray what I don't understand if America is the most powerful country on earth

and yet doesnt have the power to ask the Fed where and how the $700 billion

is being spent

surely it's now time to blow the lid sky high on exactly who and what is behind the Federal Reserve?

The American public is being asked to finance this bailout surely in return it's not too much

for them to ask to know all the details of where the money is going and yet

members of Congress can't even get the details? It's ludicrous and unbelievable.

I can understand there needs to be secrecy regarding the CIA and FBI for national

security purposes but what in the world entiltes a group of private bankers

to extract $700 billion from the American public and then say " please do not ask any questions "

Ron Paul ran on the idea of dropping the Federal Reserve and restoring control back to the people but the people have no idea what-so-ever why that is something so important for the future of their children. Paul got nowhere with this campaign.

I am not even American but " these people " have a gag order for everything they

are involved with. Its no wonder the average Us citizen is not aware of this

because certain people we wont mention say NOTHING they are

involved with should be openly discussed. Now I am finally understanding

the real " world order ". And we wonder

why some people in " other parts of the world " are so angry

You know we as Americans generally have never heard about these things.

How the FED was started how our money is backed by basically a wing & a prayer.

These things are not taught in school. They are never spoken about on TV either.

It is too bad because I have forgotten now who said it but I believe it was a president that said something to the effect of it is a good thing the common folks dont understand this or there would be a revolution.

Who ever said it was correct but.... folks are suddenly learning & the second half of that statement could become a reality.

As for that 700 billion bail out...An awful lot of us were against it. We were not against working on the problem but the things you describe is what we did not want. They have a free hand yet again to spend with no justification to those who pay for it. Also they are free from further prosecution in the future if & when they may be accused of wrong.

We instead said no to our representatives & it showed in a defeated vote. Then they used fear to turn the sheeple once again in the direction they wanted.

Fine we will see where this goes. Hopefully they will remember how this country started & what we were escaping when it came to being.

I was only thinking this morning -God forbid but could this be one of the biggest heists in history

against " the sheeple " ?

Looking after their mates on Wall Street and pocketing a bit themselves ...................

The American people voted for George Bush twice which I never understood.

I sincerely hope this time they don't drop the ball on this issue. Americans are known for their

perseverance and tenacity and I hope they don't stop demanding an answer to this question

[flying]

The American people voted for George Bush twice which I never understood.

Me either I never voted for him. The first time I think he was lucky.. But after that I am amazed he got in a 2nd term. I think it was once again the same old story....FEAR

He loves to talk terror He repeats it often it is his mantra. He uses it & the patriot <sic> act to take away our privacy & rights.

I still think we the people should impeach him rather than let him leave office.

Impeach him for neglect both here in the US & globally where he has screwed the economy for so many.

Edited November 15, 2008 by flying