Can I Buy Land In My Sons's Name

[expatman]

I want to buy some land in my son's name. He is 5 years old, born here in Thailand and has a Thai birth certificate and a Thai passport (also a Canadian passport). His mother and I have been together 15 years, but are not legally married.

We have agreed the price with the seller (my "wife"'s great-uncle) but someone at the Department of Lands is now saying that my son is a farang, not Thai, and thus cannot own land. I believe this is wrong, perhaps this "official" is misinformed (or looking for some incentive). A few years ago one of my friends told me he bought a house in Nonthaburi in his daughter's name, but unfortunately he is out of the country now so I can't verify the details.

Has anyone (farang) reading this personally bought land in their child's name ? Did you run into similiar obstacles ?

Can anyone recommend a lawyer in Buriram who might be able to help with this matter ?

[roietjimmy]

Seems you can but many complications. See this post.

Register Land In Daughters Name

[expatman]

Seems you can but many complications. See this post.

Register Land In Daughters Name

I've seen that posting already - the "complications" (cannot sell land until child is 20 years old without court approval) are not a problem for me - in fact that's why I want to put it in his name (rather than his mother's name), also this way the land cannot be mortgaged (I don't trust my wife's relatives).

I was hoping to contact someone who has personally encountered this for suggestions on how to deal with the situation.

To me it seems that either :

1) the DoL official doesn't know the law

or

2) the official is too lazy or stupid to figure out how to process the paperwork. As others have suggested in the thread you cited, putting property in a child's name is not common in Thailand (except perhaps for children of politicians). I had similiar problems when I tried to open a bank account for my son (although I was finally was able to do this after complaining to the bank head office)

or

3) the official is intentionally being difficult, because he doesn't like farangs or is fishing for more money (some paid already to jump the queue).

Once again, anyone have personal experience with this issue, or can recommend a lawyer in Buriram ?

[trajan]

is it possible to set up a Thai company with your Thai children as shareholders (and yourself as an elected director) and then have that Thai company own the land? if so, that might be more flexible than having children directly holding title to the land...

Edited August 22, 2007 by trajan

[joeuk1]

If your son was born in Thailand and can sign his own name then you can put the land in his name no problem .

JB

[fletchsmile]

Try seeing a different official.

If your son was born in Thailand, has a Thai birth certificate, Thai passport and is on someone's "tabian baan" (house registration - also shows family members) then that's usually all the docs needed. Seems more like one of your 3 reasons could be closer to the mark, or perhaps any of a dozen others - who knows maybe he was having a bad day. Bottom line, legally he can.

Your question is then how to get round the official, ad to that there could be many different answers. Go back again and see him another day, try seeing another official, ask to see his boss, take a copy of the laws in Thai, take a lawyer to discuss, (probably doesn't even need to be a good one), be nice and respectful to him, any of these may work or not, but be persistent - legally you're in the right so will get there in the end.

Edited August 22, 2007 by fletchthai68

[chuckd]

My house in Pattaya was put in my daughter's name when she was 11 years old with no problem from the Land Office. In fact they told her how lucky she was to get this done for her. She is a dual Thai and US citizen.

Her mother and I were divorced at the time but I had full custody so I was the one that had to sign for her. I would expect your wife would be the person to sign for your son, not you. I cannot dispose of the house without court permission and she will get it when she turns 20.

Unless there is a minimum age, I see no reason why you cannot buy the land and put it in your son's name.

[Maigo6]

Why would you not put it in your wifes name, you've stayed together for 15 years, so you must be ok.

Seems a lot of problem otherwise. And when she's gone he'll get the land anyway.

Don't piss ball around giving Lawyers money, it will end up with your son eventually anyway.

Good luck with whatever steps you take and let us know how you get on.

[Gravelrash]

Why would you not put it in your wifes name, you've stayed together for 15 years, so you must be ok.

Seems a lot of problem otherwise. And when she's gone he'll get the land anyway.

Don't piss ball around giving Lawyers money, it will end up with your son eventually anyway.

Good luck with whatever steps you take and let us know how you get on.

Put it in the childs name. Briefly my wife and I split after 10 years, everything was in her name, she took the lot, even refusing to pay the kids school with "our" money, so much for maternalism. Secondly if the wife didn't have a will it could end up with her family and not the children, inheritance is different in Thailand. In the childs name, assuming you have custody (important point), it will be locked up until coming of age.

[expatman]

Try seeing a different official.

If your son was born in Thailand, has a Thai birth certificate, Thai passport and is on someone's "tabian baan" (house registration - also shows family members) then that's usually all the docs needed. Seems more like one of your 3 reasons could be closer to the mark, or perhaps any of a dozen others - who knows maybe he was having a bad day. Bottom line, legally he can.

Your question is then how to get round the official, ad to that there could be many different answers. Go back again and see him another day, try seeing another official, ask to see his boss, take a copy of the laws in Thai, take a lawyer to discuss, (probably doesn't even need to be a good one), be nice and respectful to him, any of these may work or not, but be persistent - legally you're in the right so will get there in the end.

Well, it looks like the DoL guy is fishing for more money. Hard to know exactly what is going on since I'm in Bangkok and "negotiations" are going on through the wife's relatives in Buriram, but it now it appears the guy is saying it can be registered in child's name and processing expedited for an additional 30,000 Baht paid to you-know-who. This seems like an exhorbitant amount considering purchase price is 450,000.

For now I have told wife to tell her sister to tell the guy we will take the unexpedited processing, which means waiting 2 months in the queue (no problem for me). I have also told her to tell sister to tell the guy we will discuss the ownership issue next time I'm in Buriram, and to mention to him that perhaps we need to talk to a lawyer about this.

Anyone have any idea what a lawyer in Buriram would charge to handle this simple land deal ? If it's less than the suggested 30k I'd go for that rather than paying this jerk. Any personal recommendations re suitable lawyer would also be welcome.

[wolfmanjack]

Why would you not put it in your wifes name, you've stayed together for 15 years, so you must be ok.

Seems a lot of problem otherwise. And when she's gone he'll get the land anyway.

Don't piss ball around giving Lawyers money, it will end up with your son eventually anyway.

Good luck with whatever steps you take and let us know how you get on.

Are you sure he will get the land anyway ????? If her parents are still alive then they will get a share. That is good enough reason to put it directly inot the sons name.

[bangkoksingapore]

i cant imagine having a child with a women who i didnt trust, but to each his own i guess. ah, farang in thailand...

[jackr]

Try seeing a different official.

If your son was born in Thailand, has a Thai birth certificate, Thai passport and is on someone's "tabian baan" (house registration - also shows family members) then that's usually all the docs needed. Seems more like one of your 3 reasons could be closer to the mark, or perhaps any of a dozen others - who knows maybe he was having a bad day. Bottom line, legally he can.

Your question is then how to get round the official, ad to that there could be many different answers. Go back again and see him another day, try seeing another official, ask to see his boss, take a copy of the laws in Thai, take a lawyer to discuss, (probably doesn't even need to be a good one), be nice and respectful to him, any of these may work or not, but be persistent - legally you're in the right so will get there in the end.

Well, it looks like the DoL guy is fishing for more money. Hard to know exactly what is going on since I'm in Bangkok and "negotiations" are going on through the wife's relatives in Buriram, but it now it appears the guy is saying it can be registered in child's name and processing expedited for an additional 30,000 Baht paid to you-know-who. This seems like an exhorbitant amount considering purchase price is 450,000.

For now I have told wife to tell her sister to tell the guy we will take the unexpedited processing, which means waiting 2 months in the queue (no problem for me). I have also told her to tell sister to tell the guy we will discuss the ownership issue next time I'm in Buriram, and to mention to him that perhaps we need to talk to a lawyer about this.

Anyone have any idea what a lawyer in Buriram would charge to handle this simple land deal ? If it's less than the suggested 30k I'd go for that rather than paying this jerk. Any personal recommendations re suitable lawyer would also be welcome.

Can certainly see where you're coming from but if it's only 450k then just as well bung it in the girlfriend's name and go the Usufruct / will route if you're worried her family will nick it back should anything happen to her, and also less hassle than what you're going through now.

[expatman]

[Can certainly see where you're coming from but if it's only 450k then just as well bung it in the girlfriend's name and go the Usufruct / will route if you're worried her family will nick it back should anything happen to her, and also less hassle than what you're going through now.

I don't really trust the girlfriend to always do the right thing for our boy, that's why I want to put it in his name.

Even if I did, her family is very good at extorting money from her (from me, actually) by making her feel guilty.

For example, her sister once owned a house bought by her farang husband (who has since left the scene). After running up a lot of debts, some personal, most for other family members, she was forced to sell the house to pay back the debts. I don't want a similiar thing happening with land intended for my son.

As for the usufruct idea, this may be a good idea in theory, but probably very difficult to enforce in practice, especially if I'm not around anymore.

[jackr]

Yep, the thought of the outlaws getting their grubby mitts on something meant for my boy would make one cringe slightly. Let us know how it goes.

Edited August 27, 2007 by jackr

[joeuk1]

Expatman

Listen to your gut feeling ...........

From experience i bought property in the 1990s had some in mine and the exwifes name this all got sold , but had put somei n Trust for my kids and that could not be touched by anyone or sold in the divorce settlement . The property i bought in 1994 is worth 3 times what i paid for it back then . I will /have put land in my Thai childrens name i have put it in trust that they can not sell it untill they are 21 years old and if i die the mrs dies the only benifit that the land will have will be too my kids .

Nothing to do with not trusting the wife or outlaws just a good thing to do and great investment great for the future for the kids .Land that can be bought today i wonderwhat it will cost in 15/20 years time ?

JB

[ThaiAdventure]

Well, it looks like the DoL guy is fishing for more money. Hard to know exactly what is going on since I'm in Bangkok and "negotiations" are going on through the wife's relatives in Buriram, but it now it appears the guy is saying it can be registered in child's name and processing expedited for an additional 30,000 Baht paid to you-know-who. This seems like an exhorbitant amount considering purchase price is 450,000.

For now I have told wife to tell her sister to tell the guy we will take the unexpedited processing, which means waiting 2 months in the queue (no problem for me). I have also told her to tell sister to tell the guy we will discuss the ownership issue next time I'm in Buriram, and to mention to him that perhaps we need to talk to a lawyer about this.

Anyone have any idea what a lawyer in Buriram would charge to handle this simple land deal ? If it's less than the suggested 30k I'd go for that rather than paying this jerk. Any personal recommendations re suitable lawyer would also be welcome.

Don't give him a penny. The "negotiations" are more likely along the lines of how much they think they can get and how to split it. (oooh cynical eh?). And whats the bet that the lawyer (in somewhere like Burriram) is his uncle's, daughter's, nieces, nephew.

A more practical approach is when you get back, go and see him (does he speak english?). Don't take the missus along, because then he he has to think of bullcrap AND translate it (that will wear him down), or find someone in the office who can speak it-he won't want to do that if he's on the take.

Ask to see the list of charges (they are sometimes displayed anyway) and for him to point out the 30k charge and (if it does exist, which it probably doesn't) ask if a receipt will be given and is a cheque OK.

If he is ademant that your son is not thai, produce his passport, birth certificate and house papers with you sons name on them (take them with you) and ask what is it that proves you are Thai. You could even jovially point out that if your son was old enough, you could also produce a driving license.

Ask lots of questions (your a dumb farang who can't understand thai.....so thats ok) that make him squirm, smile continuously and keep your cool.

Just let him know (indirectly) that you have all the time in the world and it would be far better to process the papers and stop being diffi

cult than to see your face every day asking awkward questions.......especially if he wants to make a dent in his workload.

Edited August 28, 2007 by ThaiAdventure

[expatman]

Don't give him a penny. The "negotiations" are more likely along the lines of how much they think they can get and how to split it. (oooh cynical eh?). And whats the bet that the lawyer (in somewhere like Burriram) is his uncle's, daughter's, nieces, nephew.

A more practical approach is when you get back, go and see him (does he speak english?). Don't take the missus along, because then he he has to think of bullcrap AND translate it (that will wear him down), or find someone in the office who can speak it-he won't want to do that if he's on the take.

Ask to see the list of charges (they are sometimes displayed anyway) and for him to point out the 30k charge and (if it does exist, which it probably doesn't) ask if a receipt will be given and is a cheque OK.

If he is ademant that your son is not thai, produce his passport, birth certificate and house papers with you sons name on them (take them with you) and ask what is it that proves you are Thai. You could even jovially point out that if your son was old enough, you could also produce a driving license.

Ask lots of questions (your a dumb farang who can't understand thai.....so thats ok) that make him squirm, smile continuously and keep your cool.

Just let him know (indirectly) that you have all the time in the world and it would be far better to process the papers and stop being diffi

cult than to see your face every day asking awkward questions.......especially if he wants to make a dent in his workload.

I think your suggested approach is too confrontational and could backfire. Also, I don't want the hassle or have the time for it.

I will try to bypass this guy and take a normal place in the queue (2 months). I've already consulted a lawyer who has assured me putting in my son's name is possible. What the lawyer would charge is less than what this jerk wants and includes checking title deed, etc.

[jackr]

If the land was in your son's name and you built a house, what rights would you have to live there if your girlfriend didn't want you there anymore, considering she was the one who signed? Similar for those who are married and then divorced, could you be booted out without any say even though it's your son's land and not the wife's? Maybe a strange one, but could a Usufruct be registered on land that was owned by your son?

[expatman]

If the land was in your son's name and you built a house, what rights would you have to live there if your girlfriend didn't want you there anymore, considering she was the one who signed? Similar for those who are married and then divorced, could you be booted out without any say even though it's your son's land and not the wife's? Maybe a strange one, but could a Usufruct be registered on land that was owned by your son?

1 rai = 400 square wah, 1 wah = 2 meters

so 1 rai = 16,000 square meters (40m x 40m if a square plot)

don't know how much that is in terms of acres or square feet, but you can figure that out

[jackr]

If the land was in your son's name and you built a house, what rights would you have to live there if your girlfriend didn't want you there anymore, considering she was the one who signed? Similar for those who are married and then divorced, could you be booted out without any say even though it's your son's land and not the wife's? Maybe a strange one, but could a Usufruct be registered on land that was owned by your son?

1 rai = 400 square wah, 1 wah = 2 meters

so 1 rai = 16,000 square meters (40m x 40m if a square plot)

don't know how much that is in terms of acres or square feet, but you can figure that out

A square wah is 4m2; rai is 1600m2 which is 400 square wah, but what has that got to do with the price of fish? I was asking for info on what right would you have to stay on any part of the land be it 1 rai or 1000 rai.

Found the answer through Sunbelt; land in kids' name and do a 'Right of Habitation' with them as the grantee.

[karlbkk]

he will have a thai ID number so he is Thai and a thai can own land

[yabadaba]

Consider this possibility: Your girlfriends family is scamming you. The 30,000 baht will go into their pockets. It's possible that your girlfriend herself isn't in on it but that a family member dreamed up the idea and is lying to her as well. After all nobady does anything for free if theres a farang involved.

I'm a veteran of south east Asia and have been through things like this myself. They can never see past the white skin and family members often aren't above scamming each other.

Your best bet is to get up there and get more closly involved with the negotiations yourself. Being as far away as you are just encourages them to take advantage. It might not hurt to bluff a little to. Tell them you've got a good lawyer in mind and are comming up with him to take care of things. It should become quickly apparent if something fishy is going on. Look for inconsistencies.

[expatman]

Consider this possibility: Your girlfriends family is scamming you. The 30,000 baht will go into their pockets. It's possible that your girlfriend herself isn't in on it but that a family member dreamed up the idea and is lying to her as well. After all nobady does anything for free if theres a farang involved.

I'm a veteran of south east Asia and have been through things like this myself. They can never see past the white skin and family members often aren't above scamming each other.

Your best bet is to get up there and get more closly involved with the negotiations yourself. Being as far away as you are just encourages them to take advantage. It might not hurt to bluff a little to. Tell them you've got a good lawyer in mind and are comming up with him to take care of things. It should become quickly apparent if something fishy is going on. Look for inconsistencies.

Yes, I've already considered that possibility, and handling this land purchase or anything else second-hand through her relatives is definitely difficult. I've already consulted a lawyer who can handle the transfer and check all documents for less than that 30,000 baht, whoever it would go to.

Just yesterday the wife said the seller has requested 100,000 baht up front because his wife has cancer (must be a fast-acting variety !). I told her no way, couldn't say directly that I don't trust him (or her, or her sisters/father/mother, etc.), so I just told her that I was worried the deal might never go through due to this DoL jerk and therefore I'm not paying anything until I have the chanote in my hand.

BTW, I have proof that there is such a thing as re-incarnation, as I once paid for her brother's funeral and later saw him alive on my next trip to Buriram !

[chuckd]

expatman:

Be wery, wery careful in this transaction. It seems to be getting curiouser and curiouser.

[jackr]

BTW, I have proof that there is such a thing as re-incarnation, as I once paid for her brother's funeral and later saw him alive on my next trip to Buriram !

Nice family

[chuckd]

Just bringing this to the top so "nwh" can read through it.