Record Number Of People Leave Uk

[mikethevigoman]

TEFL Mike,.....I agree the british pub has long gone,......only young people visit their local karoke bar then leave pissed and walk home make noise fight,......these establishments should all be outside town centre,.....

i know where id rather be !

[mikethevigoman]

sorry TEFLMike, was dashing in without reading!!!!! Yes it was awful for me while I was very ill, they kept hassling me for proof of address. The trick I think, is not to burn your bridges

Indeed, I keep my address in the UK and redirect my mail over here so they can't pull that expat crap.

I too have my bank statements sent to my uk address, if and when, ill tell them them i have been a tramp travelling england but all my savings have gone ! the bottom line is you will not be refused medical attention if you are a british passpot holder/or can produce your birth certificate, lets hope i never need it ! Edited August 23, 2007 by mikethevigoman

[mikethevigoman]

Perhaps these British Expats who bleat on about the UK should be invited to recind their citizenship and rights to ever go back.

(Sadly they can't do that)

I for one am sick of hearing them droan on about the UK and what ever their particular gripe is - OK they have a right to say what they want. but I'd appreciate if they at least tried to come up with something they thought up for themselves.

I guess it never occurs to them that if they had been born in Thailand they'd like as not be sitting on a street corner trying to make a living as a Motorbike taxi driver.

As it is the UK gave them education, health care, the oportunities and work while the boom in the UK ecconomy (and property market) has given them a chance to live where they like.

It says your from Saudi so maybe you don't appreciate how difficult life in the UK has become, unfortunately we aren't entiltled to be given a house free of charge by the state as is this case in some arab countries, we have to work ###### hard for everthing we get!

Contrary to popular believe the UK is not a wealthy nation anymore, we have a health system which at best is second rate, MRSA is a major issue in 99% of hosipitals and the majority of health trusts are in financial crisis.

The education system has been stripped to the bone, my son can no longer play football at his school because the goverment sold off the playing field !!

The department of health and social security is at breaking point because we have a country full of immagrants and asylum seekers living in plush houses provided by the goverment, and ultimately the tax payer, me !!!!

The United Kingdom is a ghost of its former self, the quality of life for your average person is a liitle bit over poor. People who do have money normally work bloody hard for it, they don't have it as a birth-right.

Spend a bit of time there and see what you think !!

Some people wont believe you here on some things, i do, the school in my home town sold its playing field to a car dealership next door !. i hate how the uk has become, hence leaving on a one way ticket.

[mikethevigoman]

I agree with what you're saying Guesthouse but there's a few relevant points here. Yes we got our education, health care and during the boom years had work but the UK is in a pretty poor state now.

I, and I expect quite a few others on here, served time in the forces, for their country. Should we, and everyone else who contributed to the system, not be entitled to return to our homeland any time we please without having to suffer the third degree from some civil servant. Immigrants turning up in the UK from any European nation have more rights, and benifits, than we do.

I can remember having to go and sign on about 10 years ago in Uk. I'd been working out of the country but owned a house, had a wife and kids. I was asked by the Indian lady behind the counter at the dole office in Aberdeen why I was comming to live here????

The country has gone to the dogs.

Two comments. First, I hope the Thai's treat you the same way you seem to treat people who have migrated to the UK.

Second. No the UK hasn't 'gone to the dogs'. In fact the UK hasen't had it so good.

Pay, as well as standard of living has gone up. If you've bought property, then the value has gone up. The average house price is about 200k.

The only reason I'd like to leave is the weather (not much anyone can do about that) and value for money/quality of life in Thailand.

England is still great. Only the losers say otherwise.

Oh dear, i feel you have some stick coming,.( nothing personal ) im from the wescountry, average wage 6-7 pounds an hour, aveage price as you say for a house 200k, you dont have to be a mathmatician to work out the mortgage repayment,. anyone fortunate enough to own a property in that price range or over can sell up ,move here ( and with a pension or savings ) be a lot better of and of course the suroundings, no where is perfect and this is only my opinion, i do feel im qualified to comment here after traveling and living in other countries for 30 years, the uk has become awful, .i tried in 02 for 2 and a half years, all that reminiscing of cream teas and thatched cottages .what drugs were i on ! ,.id be interesed to know where else you have lived and for how long ? you have to have lived elswhere to make comparisons, i have a friend in n devon, he has never been out of devon, he loves it there, ignorance is a bliss isnt it !

[Lucifer]

Lucifer. Where have I indicated my attitude TOWARDS immigrants? Some of my good friends come from East European countries. What I said was that they have more rights turning up in UK that we do were we to return.

Oh and sorry. "Lady of Indian descent"

Why would you even mention that she was from India? Because how dare someone from India ask you why you've come back to the UK scounging from the Tax payer. She is employed and pays her Tax, and you're a scounger.

Also, ''I have white friends from East European countries'' says a lot about you.

[Lucifer]

Pay, as well as standard of living has gone up.

Perhaps you could find some statistics to substantiate that claim.

England is still great. Only the losers say otherwise.

Nearly 4,000 Brits leaving the country permanently every day would seem to disagree with you, are they all losers too?

''The only reason I'd like to leave is the weather (not much anyone can do about that) and value for money/quality of life in Thailand.''...perhaps

[lazeeboy]

Pay, as well as standard of living has gone up.

Perhaps you could find some statistics to substantiate that claim.

England is still great. Only the losers say otherwise.

Nearly 4,000 Brits leaving the country permanently every day would seem to disagree with you, are they all losers too?

''The only reason I'd like to leave is the weather (not much anyone can do about that) and value for money/quality of life in Thailand.''...perhaps

4000 people a day ? yhis figure seems a bit high ..........

[Lucifer]

Pay, as well as standard of living has gone up.

Perhaps you could find some statistics to substantiate that claim.

England is still great. Only the losers say otherwise.

Nearly 4,000 Brits leaving the country permanently every day would seem to disagree with you, are they all losers too?

''The only reason I'd like to leave is the weather (not much anyone can do about that) and value for money/quality of life in Thailand.''...perhaps

4000 people a day ? yhis figure seems a bit high ..........

The weather really is that bad.

This summer we've had about 10-14 good days.

Lets not forget, people are cashing in on their houses, for a better value for money life-styles elsewhere. Most are going to Austrailia, Canada, US. The fools. If only they'd been to Thailand on holiday.

[mrtoad]

Oh dear, i feel you have some stick coming,.( nothing personal ) im from the wescountry, average wage 6-7 pounds an hour, aveage price as you say for a house 200k, you dont have to be a mathmatician to work out the mortgage repayment,. anyone fortunate enough to own a property in that price range or over can sell up ,move here ( and with a pension or savings ) be a lot better of and of course the suroundings, no where is perfect and this is only my opinion, i do feel im qualified to comment here after traveling and living in other countries for 30 years, the uk has become awful, .i tried in 02 for 2 and a half years, all that reminiscing of cream teas and thatched cottages .what drugs were i on ! ,.id be interesed to know where else you have lived and for how long ? you have to have lived elswhere to make comparisons, i have a friend in n devon, he has never been out of devon, he loves it there, ignorance is a bliss isnt it !

I can certainly agre with you on the example that you have given. I am originally from Cornwall, and lived lived most of my life in the westcountry including Devon, Somerset and Bristol.

Devon and Cornwall now hav significant problems with wages in comparison to the cost of living. The second home ownership has turned some towns and villages into almost ghost towns in the winter, and the prices have rocketed to an average of over 140,000 in some of the less pleasant areas for just a very small place. Certain places in Cornwall such as Rock, Padstow, Helford, St Ives are almost untouchable for locals who want to get onto the housing market. As you pointed out, wages in the West Country are not high, Cornwall has planty of people who are workinf for the minimum wage, and who have no chance of even get a foot on the property ladder, hence many now stay at home with their paents until they are in there 30's.

Mike I have to agree, with what you have written in reply to some rather rose tinted pictures. There are plenty of problems with the UK just like any other country, I didn't realise that by pointing out some of the problems which some people have put makes them losers. I think we all have to accept that some of the changes in the UK over the last 10-15 years have not been particularly positive for a significant amount of people, but that doesn't make them losers.

[mittheimp]

I'd agree there is a definate problem with the housing market... unless you are already on it. Second homes... be it holiday homes or homes for rent should be taxed at a considerably higher rate... freeing up property and pushing the prices down for thos that dont have one. Renting property is not necessarily problem if the rent is reasonable... but in England you pay the same amount as if you had a mortgage... but of course you get nothing for it. Here in Korea for example.. property prices are not that far off the UK's but rent is considerably cheaper... as it should be!

[Captain Chaos]

Lets not forget, people are cashing in on their houses, for a better value for money life-styles elsewhere. Most are going to Austrailia, Canada, US. The fools. If only they'd been to Thailand on holiday.

Having been to Australia quite regularly on business over the last 5 years, and liked what I've seen, I'd definitely consider going there to live ...

... which is just what I used to say about Singapore when I was visiting on business from Bangkok!

What's that saying about 'the grass is always greener ... '?

[Gravelrash]

I have just this minute read that article on AOL UK News.

Two things concern me.

I have stated for years that the UK, within 25 years will become a third world country. many areas of the UK have already become deplorable. Entire British Communities wiped out, the community gone for ever, including the local pub.

However, how many, who have already left, are going to have to return to the UK, when funds run dry .?

Perhaps in 25 years then our sons will be visiting the UK, looking for nubile young British girls seeking "rich" foreign husbands? Think perhaps our generation got the better deal.

[Penkoprod]

Most of the examples given here (wages, cost of housing etc) are just symptoms of a problem. The CAUSE of the problem is that those who we have been put in charge of looking after the interests of the people, have come to treat those same people with utter, UTTER contempt !!!!!

There is an air of arrogance at every level, from Westminister, Whitehall, local town halls, police federations etc, etc

Let me cite just a few examples of what i mean:

1) The recent protest at Heathrow

Now, you either agree, or disagree with the reasons behind the protest, and the people doing the protesting, but.......... this government were chomping at the bit to use their anti terrorist laws to rain down hellfire and damnation on the protesters

In other words "HOW DARE YOU THINK YOU CAN DO THAT !!!!!!"

I just wonder, if these laws had been in place at the time of the petrol blockade a few years ago, would there have been the same (over) reaction from those in power? I seriously think so !!!!!

2)The referendum on the EU treaty

The UK were promised one a while back on this issue...............before it was blown out of the water by the French and (i think) the Dutch

Ok, so they cobbled together another treaty, that is, in all but name the same funemental deal.

NOW the government are saying "NO referendum" !!!!

Here is a quote from the mouth of the Prime Minister himself:

"Parliament - not the nation - would have the final say"

In other words........."###### OFF, WE WILL DO WHAT WE WANT, WHEN WE WANT TO!!!!!!!"

3) Recycling of waste

Again, it doesnt matter if you are for, or against the idea of recycling, but, town halls arounf the country are paying both for microchips to be put in dustbins, and paying people money to snoop on whether or not you are adhering to their policy, and woe betide anyone who puts the "wrong" sort of waste into the wrong type of bin !!!!!

The list goes on and on, in fact............thousands of examples could be cited here, but i think that most people know them already

I said at the start of this post that those who we have been put in charge of looking after the interests of the people, have come to treat those same people with utter, utter contempt, but, looking at some of the replies in this thread, it could be a case of being ALLOWED AND ENCOURAGED to treat us with the contempt

Penkoprod

[draggons]

Hey devil boy check what I've written before making quotes! I can't see "white friends" in any of my posts.

And of course I must be a bigot living in Thailand with a Thai missus and the extended family and working with Singaporians, Thais, Malays, Indonesians, Indians, Brits, yanks, Ozzy's, Kiwi's, Canadians of all creed and colour. It matters not to me.

And I'm a scrounger? I served my time boy!

[mrtoad]

Hey devil boy check what I've written before making quotes! I can't see "white friends" in any of my posts.

And of course I must be a bigot living in Thailand with a Thai missus and the extended family and working with Singaporians, Thais, Malays, Indonesians, Indians, Brits, yanks, Ozzy's, Kiwi's, Canadians of all creed and colour. It matters not to me.

And I'm a scrounger? I served my time boy!

Wouldn't worry draggons, I think he's stuck over there. Hence his anger

[pointofview]

I agree with what you're saying Guesthouse but there's a few relevant points here. Yes we got our education, health care and during the boom years had work but the UK is in a pretty poor state now.

I, and I expect quite a few others on here, served time in the forces, for their country. Should we, and everyone else who contributed to the system, not be entitled to return to our homeland any time we please without having to suffer the third degree from some civil servant. Immigrants turning up in the UK from any European nation have more rights, and benifits, than we do.

I can remember having to go and sign on about 10 years ago in Uk. I'd been working out of the country but owned a house, had a wife and kids. I was asked by the Indian lady behind the counter at the dole office in Aberdeen why I was comming to live here????

The country has gone to the dogs.

Two comments. First, I hope the Thai's treat you the same way you seem to treat people who have migrated to the UK.

Second. No the UK hasn't 'gone to the dogs'. In fact the UK hasen't had it so good.

Pay, as well as standard of living has gone up. If you've bought property, then the value has gone up. The average house price is about 200k.

The only reason I'd like to leave is the weather (not much anyone can do about that) and value for money/quality of life in Thailand.

England is still great. Only the losers say otherwise.

That is a point of view - but a narrow one at that. Many peopel starting out in life havent got a property and cant afford to get on the ladder. I am 45 years old - and i can tell you that i think things have never been so bad. Many areas have been absoulutley devastated by job losses in tradional heavy industry, such as ship building/repair and coal mining etc. Try telling the tens of thousands of proud and skilled workers they havent had things so good now that they are clinging on to call center jobs. Try telling brickies and building workers who are now having to work for a third of what they were making a few years ago due to cheap EU (new) labour. Maybe from a devils point of view things are better!!

[TAWP]

The British government are only just waking up to the fact that the mass migration of EU workers in UK went ott. I'm all for crossing borders and multi culture stuff but UK is losing the proverbial plot. Brits are being refused drugs for certain conditions because our health service is so strapped for cash. I was in hosp recently and the hospital trust was bankrupt so they were sending people home ill to clear the beds. It never used to be like that. It's sad and desperate.

Tell it to Michael Moore.

[GuestHouse]

So let me get this right the NHS ( which would collapse without the huge number foreingers working for the NHS ) is collapsing because of the immigration of young people ( who because of the fact they are young, place almost no demands on the NHS).

The problems of the NHS have nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with funding - AND the expectations of the indiginous population of Britain.

The UK spends THREE times as much money on Social Security as it does on the NHS - and spends a cosiderable amount on fighting other people's wars.

Meanwhile, millions of Britons feel they have NO RESPONSIBILITY to take care of their own health becase they have the RIGHT to be looked after by the NHS.

Posters here talk of foreigners claiming RIGHTS in the UK meanwhile ignoring the far larger picture of Britons who have abdicated responsibility for their own lives, dumping their problems on the Welfare State and the NHS.

In many senses I would not disagree with 'regulating' the rights of foreigners to services in the UK until they've established a tax/social security record.

BUT let's not start with the foreigners, let's start by reconnecting RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES for the whole nation.

The vast majority of Britons and immigrants in the UK look after themselve, look after their families (and their health).

Cutting the funds to 'Hand-Out Britain' needs doing and would leave money to fund the NHS, and probably the odd war or two.

If their is one thing needs doing in Britain it is putting a stop to the culture of RIGHTS WITHOUT RESPONSIBILITY and Britain needs to do this quickly before the new immigrants catch this nasty habbit from the indiginous population.

Edited August 24, 2007 by GuestHouse

[samran]

So let me get this right the NHS ( which would collapse without the huge number foreingers working for the NHS ) is collapsing because of the immigration of young people ( who because of the fact they are young, place almost no demands on the NHS).

The problems of the NHS have nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with funding - AND the expectations of the indiginous population of Britain.

The UK spends THREE times as much money on Social Security as it does on the NHS - and spends a cosiderable amount on fighting other people's wars.

Meanwhile, millions of Britons feel they have NO RESPONSIBILITY to take care of their own health becase they have the RIGHT to be looked after by the NHS.

Posters here talk of foreigners claiming RIGHTS in the UK meanwhile ignoring the far larger picture of Britons who have abdicated responsibility for their own lives, dumping their problems on the Welfare State and the NHS.

In many senses I would not disagree with 'regulating' the rights of foreigners to services in the UK until they've established a tax/social security record.

BUT let's not start with the foreigners, let's start by reconnecting RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES for the whole nation.

The vast majority of Britons and immigrants in the UK look after themselve, look after their families (and their health).

Cutting the funds to 'Hand-Out Britain' needs doing and would leave money to fund the NHS, and probably the odd war or two.

If their is one thing needs doing in Britain it is putting a stop to the culture of RIGHTS WITHOUT RESPONSIBILITY and Britain needs to do this quickly before the new immigrants catch this nasty habbit from the indiginous population.

Agree,

I've got a mate who works at the Department of Work and Pensions in the UK. He's an economist who cut his teeth in the Australian treasury. His analysis of the benefits situation is one that reflects yours, Guesthouse.

Neither he, nor I have problems with the welfare state, but the problem is that funding in the UK has made it so that people are essentially stuck in poverty traps of welfare. For other sectors, like the NHS, the system is too rigid so that funding is hard to shift around to where it is needed. It still makes the NHS a pretty decent system, but it could be a hel_l of a lot better for the same amound of funding which goes into it.

To point at 'migrants' as the leachers of the welfare system always amuses me. It is plain <deleted>. As a migrant to the UK myself, I was denied access to most forms of welfare, apart from the NHS which served me well, but then again, I paid lots of tax for it.

People tend to confuse migrants with Refugees, who are a small minority of migrants to the UK. They do get special assistance, which is what you'd expect from a rich country with obligations to helping out those who are fleeing persectution.

As for looking to blame EU nationals for stretching and straining the system, sure you can blame them, but you are blaming the wrong people. As I and guest house said, the funding mechanisms are all screwed up.

In any case, I think you'll find, that traditionally and even today, migrants are the least likely group of people to access any type of welfare. Economic migrants go to work, and as they are generally motivated enough to make the move in the first place, they are always less likely to apply for benefits.

[Khun ?]

Sounds like many other western countries, the bottom 30% of wage earners migrating to developing cheap

countires complaining. Many of them did not do well where they come from and blame their ilk on the system.

Ever so younger and expecting more all the time while also not wanting to do as generations before retiring

at a later age. They all want to be retired in their 30's and 40's and live life as a party while getting there.

Now they are sitting on the sideline in a developing country with little chance of getting the benefits of senority

in the work force that would of provided well in most places, including their home country. Most of their problems now

are for their past efforts and little to do with what is now, of course it is always a good excuse.

Life is to short to be blown off the road every time the wind blows, quit being a light weight.

[kelvinj]

The proportion of babies born to a foreign parent has risen to 25 per cent

Really?????? is this true? i find that very very hard to believe!!

maybe has risen 'by' and not 'to'......

No, this is correct, the figures are that 25% of babies born in the UK last year had at least one parent who was " a foreigner ", up from 20% in 2001.

There was also a 10% increase in the number of babies born in the UK last year, but I haven't seen an explanation for this.

[samran]

The proportion of babies born to a foreign parent has risen to 25 per cent

Really?????? is this true? i find that very very hard to believe!!

maybe has risen 'by' and not 'to'......

No, this is correct, the figures are that 25% of babies born in the UK last year had at least one parent who was " a foreigner ", up from 20% in 2001.

There was also a 10% increase in the number of babies born in the UK last year, but I haven't seen an explanation for this.

and, if you want you and your parents to have any hope of getting some sort of pension, and social services in your old age, then you better hope that it increases.

From the same article in the Guardian, the proportion of older people in the country has increased as well. To support them, you need lots more younger people in the system to pay for the older ones, and those younger people have to come from somewhere.....

But you guys need to move in this direction. One in five people in Australia are foreign born and 40% of Australians are either foriegn born or with one parent born outside of Australia underwriting the success of the Australian economy (and its social services!). See here

[Maigo6]

For all those expats that are running out of money or have had previous problems in UK and have been worried about going back to the UK, don't worry, just go back.

You will be looked upon as a sad failure by the Magistrate in a magistrates court , or even the judge in a Crown court, your sentence will be negligable, you will have great facilities in the Prison, plus a small ammount of money every week to buy essentials in the canteen, when you are released you will go straight to the Social Security Office and pick up some more money. Plus they can't turn you out on the street.

You are back in the system straight away, and with all the government agencies in UK, you will get assisstance in any quarter you care to ask.

Better than trying to survive in Thailand with absolutely no hope of ever making things work, and all the visa problems etc.

People slag off the UK, but millions of Immigrants do not target UK for nothing, and they can't all be wrong.

[chinthee]

Maigo, interesting view. In the US, there is virtually NO safety net. You are on your own, sink or swim. No NHS, nothing of the sort of safety net UK and Europeans have. I guess that is why a lot of Americans learn to swim better than others. Sadly, many more drown due to unfortunate circumstances. I said it before in this thread. You brits are lucky.

[dragonfly94]

I have just this minute read that article on AOL UK News.

Two things concern me.

I have stated for years that the UK, within 25 years will become a third world country. many areas of the UK have already become deplorable. Entire British Communities wiped out, the community gone for ever, including the local pub.

However, how many, who have already left, are going to have to return to the UK, when funds run dry .?

How true. I have recently left an area of enormous immigration, 'asylum seekers' and EEC influx. I could hardly ever get a seat on the local bus due to all the foriegn <deleted> on them, go to the Docs and in was always over a week to get an appointment, go to the library and I could never get on a computer, fridays excepted when large numbers were down the mosque. Whole areas of my home city are over 90% immigrant, over 20,000 somalis alone in the past 7 years. UK you can keep it, I'll just be going back to arrange pension. Countryside is another matter, it's becoming a land of two nations immigrant cities and white's in the countryside.

[GuestHouse]

Complaining about the UK being full of foreigners and then going to live in some other country - You are having a laugh aren't you?!

[the gent]

Quitting Uk for Thailand, or anywhere for that matter, seems eminently sensible if only because of the increasing taxation burden that squeezes the middle classes to the point that life here is becoming unbearable.

Unfortunately, the socialist/stalinist regime of Brown's has no interest in reducing that level since his political future depends on it. Over 50% of the workforce is either dependent upon welfare or employed by government, either central or local.

If such a statistic were not frightening enough the expenditure upon that fattened sacred cow, the bloated and inefficient NHS, now approaching 80 billion GBP must surely fill the taxpayer with dread, perhaps more than a trip to one of their hospitals which are as likely to kill you as cure you.

However, the notion that the recent influx of migrants further burdening the state's infrastructure is somehow enriching it is quite fanciful and only serves as propaganda for an inept government. Tax generated from their employment contributes little to their net cost and income is generally taken out of the economy by remittances home.

In truth, the eonomic migrant has only one purpose and that is his employment keeps costs down enabling the government to maintain the current debt driven Potemkin economy ensuring its survival for another term.

[samran]

UK you can keep it, I'll just be going back to arrange pension.

....which if it is a govt pension is being paid for and funded by taxes coming out of the earnings all those foreign bottoms taking up your bus seat in the morning.

So, why not stand by your principals, and refuse their money? It may stop immigration, and there would be one more seat on the bus for you. You money was given away a long time ago to some poor sod buried 6 ft under....

[the gent]

The point seemingly lost on those seeking to defend the migration phenomenon is that for most indigenous British the migrants are simply not wanted but their arrival is seen as inevitable because of the economics now prevailing.

Over 1.5 million are unemployed, not because there is no work but because there is no work that pays sufficient to achieve a standard of living beyond that which could be procured by the minimum wage. The government is happy with this since the cost of their welfare dependence is far outweighed by the benefits to be achieved from exploiting a vast reservoir of cheap labour from E.Europe.The knock on effect is the impact this has had upon inflation figures whch Brown has used to depress wage levels throughout the country.With the rising tax burden being shouldered by the oppressed middle income earners it is hardly surprising that resentment is building to the point that where possible many folk are voting with their feet.

Racism and prejudice are equally inevitable since human nature, despite the clumsy attempts at social engineering practiced by NuLabour, will always have its way.

Personally speaking, I am becoming weary of having to speak English in my own country as if I were abroad (or in Liverpool:D ).

[lannarebirth]

Maigo, interesting view. In the US, there is virtually NO safety net. You are on your own, sink or swim. No NHS, nothing of the sort of safety net UK and Europeans have. I guess that is why a lot of Americans learn to swim better than others. Sadly, many more drown due to unfortunate circumstances. I said it before in this thread. You brits are lucky.

That's not exactlt right chinthee. There are great safety nets available for both the rich and poor. It is the middle class family that stands to lose evrything if ever they are caught short wihout adequate insurance. Once they've been made poor by this experience, if they didn't die, they are then eligible for a whole host of social welfare and medical care programs.