Response To The Burma Situation From Thai Colleagues, Friends & Partners ?

[PeaceBlondie]

My partner, a native of Chiang Mai, looks down upon all Burmese and Hill Tribes. We were watching TV when it showed a monk carrying something, and the expression on his face was serious. My partner, who spent years training for the monkhood, just exclaimed disgustedly, "He is very ugly!"

He must have the mouth of a Hoover for you to tolerate such a person. Probably some pal of my idiot brother-in-law in Chiang Mai. Time for an upgrade or go back to your wife.

No, not really, but thanks for thinking about his Hooverability. He's no idiot; he's a northern Thai who doesn't relate to the Burmese people or the Hill Tribe people. He relates almost exclusively with Chiang Mai natives, including several Tai Yong natives here. We were just talking about Burma's protests again, and I asked him about it in terms of monks. He said the Burmese monks supposedly are more lax, and that Thai monks would never support a popular uprising (violent or not) by leading people through the streets. I started one of those dreaded hypotheticals (but what if the Thai generals were murdering Thai people in the streets, as they have a few times in your own lifetime; would the monks just stay in the monastery and pray?). But I find that many Thais don't do hypotheticals well.

But if you ask the average farang, "What would you do if an insane maniac with a chainsaw came to your door to kill your family?" we already know exactly what we'd do!

[plachon]

My partner, a native of Chiang Mai, looks down upon all Burmese and Hill Tribes.

Your partner is a racist bigot?

You understand that that lower class like burmese and all such have to make quiet about life. what do you mean by racist bignut?

You're making a laugh, no?

My partner, a native of an oak tree in Regents Park, looks down on all grey squirrels and ones with small balls. He's one for example.

[Martin]

We are only 2, 3, or 4 generations on from Kipling who observed, about the meeting of minds:

"East is East, and West is West, and ne'er the twain shall meet".

"Ne'er" is a lot longer than just 2, 3, or 4 generations.

Personally, I have a theory that it is not something to do with how far round the globe we are, but more to do with how far from the equator we lived in our formative years.

The Westerners tend to be dominated by the fact that they have to contend with cold winters. So they take the attitude: "Don't just sit there. Do something". There's a 50:50 chance that they'll make it worse, but they will have warmed themselves up by activity.

On the other hand, those who live in the hot, steamy conditions of the tropics and sub-tropics are more inclined to take the attitude: "Don't do something. Just sit there." There's a 50:50 chance that they'll fail to make it better, but they will have avoided getting all lathered up.

Where I was brought up it is generally held that "There's nowt as strange as fowk". It helps to just accept it.

[Johpa]

My partner, a native of Chiang Mai, looks down upon all Burmese and Hill Tribes. We were watching TV when it showed a monk carrying something, and the expression on his face was serious. My partner, who spent years training for the monkhood, just exclaimed disgustedly, "He is very ugly!"

He must have the mouth of a Hoover for you to tolerate such a person. Probably some pal of my idiot brother-in-law in Chiang Mai. Time for an upgrade or go back to your wife.

No, not really, but thanks for thinking about his Hooverability. He's no idiot; he's a northern Thai who doesn't relate to the Burmese people or the Hill Tribe people. He relates almost exclusively with Chiang Mai natives, including several Tai Yong natives here.

So Burmese and non-Tai indigenous people of the Chiang Mai region are excluded from his social universe yet Tai people relocated from Burma living in Lamphun are included. Sorry Blondie, but I think you deserve better than this bloke. Besides, this idiot might be surprised at the number of hill tribe guys who have "tok doi", that is moved down off the mountain and adopted a urban Thai identity, and move about within his social universe. My recently turned idiot brother-in-law is but one of them, fortunately most are not such idiots.

[PeaceBlondie]

Johpa, where I lived, we didn't say tok doi, but we did say, "I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday." Yes, your analogy about Tai tribes is spot-on (well, 30 km off, but close enough). The Tai Yong have lived long enough in Lamphumn province and around San Kampaeng to become old money and well respected, but the newcomers like the Akha, Tai Yai and Karen are the new kids in town.

Don't tempt me, Johpa. I gave up a Tai Yai for this CMai native, and am still reconsidering the decision.

[solo siam]

My partner, a native of Chiang Mai, looks down upon all Burmese and Hill Tribes. We were watching TV when it showed a monk carrying something, and the expression on his face was serious. My partner, who spent years training for the monkhood, just exclaimed disgustedly, "He is very ugly!"

He must have the mouth of a Hoover for you to tolerate such a person. Probably some pal of my idiot brother-in-law in Chiang Mai. Time for an upgrade or go back to your wife.

No, not really, but thanks for thinking about his Hooverability. He's no idiot; he's a northern Thai who doesn't relate to the Burmese people or the Hill Tribe people. He relates almost exclusively with Chiang Mai natives, including several Tai Yong natives here. We were just talking about Burma's protests again, and I asked him about it in terms of monks. He said the Burmese monks supposedly are more lax, and that Thai monks would never support a popular uprising (violent or not) by leading people through the streets. I started one of those dreaded hypotheticals (but what if the Thai generals were murdering Thai people in the streets, as they have a few times in your own lifetime; would the monks just stay in the monastery and pray?). But I find that many Thais don't do hypotheticals well.

But if you ask the average farang, "What would you do if an insane maniac with a chainsaw came to your door to kill your family?" we already know exactly what we'd do!

get some monks?, some Burmese monks?, Some Gay Burmese monks?

[PeaceBlondie]

I'm trying not to Thai bash, but my hypotheticals don't work with Thai people. "What if country XYZ did that to Thai people?" "What if instead of having a school assembly idolizing the Nazis who killed 12 million people including teachers, we had a Thai school reenact the death railroad in Kanchanaburi?" The average Thai has been carefully but poorly brainwashed all their life to think that the Thai way is the way it is, the right way, and there's no need to think, "What if Thailand had had a constitution that lasted for 215 years?"

[Johpa]

Johpa, where I lived, we didn't say tok doi, but we did say, "I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday." Yes, your analogy about Tai tribes is spot-on (well, 30 km off, but close enough). The Tai Yong have lived long enough in Lamphumn province and around San Kampaeng to become old money and well respected, but the newcomers like the Akha, Tai Yai and Karen are the new kids in town.

Don't tempt me, Johpa. I gave up a Tai Yai for this CMai native, and am still reconsidering the decision.

The term "tok doi" is from an older Thai comedy movie "Karieng Tok Doi".

Both the Shan and Karen have been around as long as the various Tai groups, the Shan longer than even the Khon Muang. When the first Khon Muang folks arrived in the region centuries ago the Shan were one of the existing dominant political groups, thus the moniker the Tai Yai.

As for your temptations, I will have to pass on that one as I have my own differing temptations in life to contend with.

[richard10365]

I go to school with many Burmese at Payap University. From what I can see, these students are very intelligent. They excell at science and math and pursue their studies with a diligence that would make any parent proud. One of the most impressive students I have met does not even come from a large city.

Those people looking down on the Burmese for whatever reason need to take a second look at the Burmese people. Before I encountered Burmese students I too had preconcieved notions about them. Now I see I was wrong.

In fact, I would even go as far to say if the average Burmese are as smart as the students I have encountered, once Burma is free and open, it will make Thailand look like Cambodia. If intelligence is a natural resource then Burma is a gold mine.

Once it opens up, it will become the most popular place in Southeast Asia in regards to business and tourism. Perhaps thats why Thailand does not put more pressure on the Burmese government. A free Burma will really impact Thailand's tourism industry in a very negative way as dollars that were once spent in Thailand will now go to Burma. I imagine other areas of Thai production will be affected as well as more business move from Thailand to Burma.

It won't happen over night, but it will happen. Burma has too many natural resourses to be ignored.

[jumnien]

I would assume that most Burmese students going to school at universities around the world are either from current ruling military families in Myanmar or from the capitalist elite pre-junta. In either case, it seems unfair to judge the intelligence and integrity of the average citizen of Myanmar using these abnormalities as standards.

[sutnyod]

I mainly talk to women about it (mostly Isaan). They say it's terrible what happens there and some said they cried while watching the violent scenes in the news.

[richard10365]

I would assume that most Burmese students going to school at universities around the world are either from current ruling military families in Myanmar or from the capitalist elite pre-junta. In either case, it seems unfair to judge the intelligence and integrity of the average citizen of Myanmar using these abnormalities as standards.

You know what happens when you assume.

If they were from these families do you think they would have went to the protest against the ruling military families or capitalist elite pre-junta?

Even though they were scared to be seen on TV, they still went and stood at the 3 Kings Momument in Chiang Mai Friday night with signs calling for the end of the Burmese Military rule and to free all political prisioners. I went with them and saw the news cameras filming them as they peacefull protested the current Burmese government.

I am reflecting my experience with the Burmese I encounter on a daily basis. Where are you getting your information from?

[qualtrough]

I would assume that most Burmese students going to school at universities around the world are either from current ruling military families in Myanmar or from the capitalist elite pre-junta. In either case, it seems unfair to judge the intelligence and integrity of the average citizen of Myanmar using these abnormalities as standards.

...and you would be wrong. There are large numbers of Burmese students who have fled Burma post-88 and studied at Universities abroad, and they come from all kinds of backgrounds.

Getting back to intelligence, I doubt very much whether there is any real difference in intelligence levels between Burmese and Thais. The difference observed is probably due to motivation.

[chavy]

I go to school with many Burmese at Payap University. From what I can see, these students are very intelligent. They excell at science and math and pursue their studies with a diligence that would make any parent proud. One of the most impressive students I have met does not even come from a large city.

Those people looking down on the Burmese for whatever reason need to take a second look at the Burmese people. Before I encountered Burmese students I too had preconcieved notions about them. Now I see I was wrong.

In fact, I would even go as far to say if the average Burmese are as smart as the students I have encountered, once Burma is free and open, it will make Thailand look like Cambodia. If intelligence is a natural resource then Burma is a gold mine.

Once it opens up, it will become the most popular place in Southeast Asia in regards to business and tourism. Perhaps thats why Thailand does not put more pressure on the Burmese government. A free Burma will really impact Thailand's tourism industry in a very negative way as dollars that were once spent in Thailand will now go to Burma. I imagine other areas of Thai production will be affected as well as more business move from Thailand to Burma.

It won't happen over night, but it will happen. Burma has too many natural resourses to be ignored.

Yes quite true. A Burmese friend of mine is trying to put pressure on me to work in Burma once the Junta has gone. People are just waiting to pump money in the place to exploit the cheap labor that will be available.

[PeaceBlondie]

We farang may have partners who have different prejudices than we have, or used to have. If you have to restrict your long term relationships to Thais who are worldly wise about political correctness, you may get lonely.

[brahmburgers]

Dare I say Europeans, Americans (and those descendent from Europeans) are generally more compassionate towards people worldwide than Asians. Yes, I know that incendiary talk, but so be it.

There are several indicators, not least of which is % of donations going out-of-country.

Another indicator is adoptions. How many Asians would adopt outside their immediate ethnic group (if they'd even consider adoptions at all)?

How many foundations and charities (helping people overseas) are funded by farang as compared to foundations funded by Asians? Heck even the Arabs have their version of Red Cross (Red Crescent). What do the Asians have?

In Darfur, what are Asians doing? In East Timor, Asians governments didn't get involved until weeks after farang gov't's and organizations were actively involved. ....same for tsunami victims and for earthquakes outside their territories. Do Asians even have 'Rapid Response Teams' ready for the next calamity that takes place outside their borders? It's not just a money thing. In other words, it's too simplistic to say that only rich countries can afford such things as Medecin Sans Borders' do-good organizations. It has to do with a peoples' core beliefs, and Asians are generally just plain too self-absorbed and too conscious of other peoples' 'otherness' ...which translates into 'ugh' If in doubt, ask your Thai friend whether they'd consider dating a black person.

Even a little thing, like the gross excesses of an African dictator in Lesotho splurging on an expensive jet airplane while his people ate shoe leather and died of aids. American leaders spoke out against it - Whereas Asian leaders wouldn't speak out about such a thing even if they were aware of it. Such things are way too alien. it's a great big 'mai pen rai'

[jumnien]

I would assume that most Burmese students going to school at universities around the world are either from current ruling military families in Myanmar or from the capitalist elite pre-junta. In either case, it seems unfair to judge the intelligence and integrity of the average citizen of Myanmar using these abnormalities as standards.

You know what happens when you assume.

If they were from these families do you think they would have went to the protest against the ruling military families or capitalist elite pre-junta?

Even though they were scared to be seen on TV, they still went and stood at the 3 Kings Momument in Chiang Mai Friday night with signs calling for the end of the Burmese Military rule and to free all political prisioners. I went with them and saw the news cameras filming them as they peacefull protested the current Burmese government.

I am reflecting my experience with the Burmese I encounter on a daily basis. Where are you getting your information from?

I stand corrected, you are right in your assumption that the majority of Burmese students here are from traditional farming families from small villages and are in no way above the average Burmese in income level. Thanks for clearing that up!

[ColPyat]

We farang may have partners who have different prejudices than we have, or used to have. If you have to restrict your long term relationships to Thais who are worldly wise about political correctness, you may get lonely.

The thing you may have to find out if this is just surface racism born out of lack of information, or a deep seated feeling of racial superiority. If the latter is the case, it might not stop at hill tribes. If the former, simple education and information might do the trick. A good idea would be visiting some Burmese refugee camps along the border, and let your partner see the problems of those people first hand.

Many Thais just had not the advantages of a wider education (and that is regardless of school certificate or university diploma), and just need information. And of course there are others who do hold views of racial superiority, which is somewhat supported by the Thai "education" system.

Personally, i would have severe difficulties to live with a person who holds such views. In my house i would not want to be confronted with those, and i do expect to freely speak my mind, and have a partner that is in those for me elementary issues compatible.

[Mid]

Laughter only way to cope with Myanmar surveillance madness

By Kristina Rich dpa German Press Agency

Published: Monday October 1, 2007

Yangon- "I'll set the table at ten," the Myanmar dissident

says cryptically on the phone. "Bring rose water." So, the

conspirative meeting takes place at 10 at the Rose Garden cafe.

In the surveillance state of Myanmar a simple encounter is a

complicated business. Nobody knows which telephone lines have been

tapped, or when or who is being watched. The people are cautious.

The taxi driver knows the cafe and starts immediately. "Bloody

government, they are all thieves," he complains. "Filthy rich, and we

have nothing." He says he backs opposition figure Aung San Suu Kyi.

"Do you want to see where she lives?" he asks. One has to be

careful. Taxi drivers waiting for guests at tourist hostels could be

informants. Is he trying to provoke his customers to find out whether

the western guests are not just interested in tourist attractions, as

they pretend?

The best is to feign ignorance. To the present reporter's bored

question: "Who is Suu Kyi?" he replies: "The democracy-lady." The

Nobel Peace Prize winner has gained cult status in Myanmar. Everybody

knows her.

As his customer doesn't show any further interest in her and

instead asks for the best place to take a picture of the famous

Shwedagon Padoga, the taxi driver abandons the topic. He laughs

disarmingly, like a lot of people do here. It's the only way to

survive the daily madness of the surveillance state.

snip

rawstory.com