I Need Info About Buying A Ladybar

[luuk holland]

Hello, I am a young man (25) from Holland and I have a relationship with a Thai lady for 7 months now. My plan is to move to Thailand and buy a ladybar in Pattaya after 2 or 3 years.

I can use ALL the information I can get about moving to Thailand, visas and about buying/having a ladybar. I really need some help.

Thank you very much in advance!

[DPlover]

Look for sunbelt i am sure they can help .

[Tufty]

If you are determind to buy one you would be better off getting one on walking street where there are more customers, a friend of mine has been offered 700000 baht for his in Simon complex opposite Tonys.

He only paid 300000 baht 2 years ago

Closer to the road means more expensive but more profit

[Up2U]

As someone has said - go to Sunbelt, there are always bars for sale.

You will need other money, to support yourself. A bar is not a money machine. (Except for eating the stuff )

Soi 7, Soi 8, both good locations - if on the street front. This is a business where the three main items are location, location, location. And lots of attractive girls doesn't harm the take.

Are you looking for an open-air bar or a shop-house conversion? The latter gives you somewhere to live, plus ST rooms and so on. But costs a lot more.

You need to do your accounts - rent, wages, services, beverages, cleaning, contributions to local charities, income tax, living expenses, so on - are your outgoings. Make sure your annual incomings are higher. Don't look at the last three month's balance sheet in February - it will be two-to-three times higher than one in July - September. If you're lucky.

Return on investment should be 16% per annum as a minimum. After all the outgoings listed above.

Do your sums, work hard. If you are an absentee owner you will not make anything, even if your g/f is there all the time. Unless she has her own bar(s) already and knows the business. Many bar-girls that I know would like to own and run a bar, but not one of them would make a go of it - otherwise they would already be doing it. It takes flair and hard work to make a profit - looking pretty doesn't help the owner much, only the girls on the other side of the counter.

Also - get an experienced cashier, or do it yourself. Be hard about loans to girls. Do not let people run a tab of more than you can afford to lose. Which at the start is zero!

[Up2U]

Now - about the rest of it.

You want to run it as a legitimate business, I assume. This is a problem with regard to your owning it - as it is a restricted business. (Anyone is welcome to correct my version - I am speaking from experience of ten years ago). So you should put the business in your g/f name (very dangerous ) and have a separate venture for yourself, where you have invested at least two million baht. that is so you can get a work permit. This could be related to your g/f business, so that you exercise control. Think this part through - discuss it with a good lawyer.

Your business will need to give you an income - you will pay tax and still have to show a living wage. You will need Thai partners. You will need to control the business when allowed only 49% of the shares. Think about it. (Lending money to your partners, keeping their voting shares as security is one possibility).

What are your qualifications? Can you set up your own business with a particular skill needed in Thailand - IT people are thick on the ground - don't think it's worth considering that. But maybe I'm wrong.

Good luck - over the next 2-3 years you should visit several times and go into things more thoroughly with your g/f. Talk to owners. Go to some of the weekend meetings of Pattaya expats and meet some other business owners.

I wish you well, and hope to have a jar or several when you are set up.

[britmaveric]

Dunno bar business is dodgey- so many bars and competition is heavy. Need a good locale and something that rises you above the rest. Really do your homework or you'll make F*** all!

[BKK_banger]

Best advice I can give is DO NOT DO IT!!!!!

If you are already running successful bars and joints in Amerstdam or Rotterdam then you are just the sort who will succeed here, if not you will be eaten up.

The problems:

1. You will need to be there 14/7.

2. They will all steal from you or try to.

3. The customers are scum (nice scum of course). Do not expect to have polite conversations and regular clients.

4. You will have to deal with HIV+ drug addict prostitutes working in your bar (a few anyway)

5. The police will take your money

6. If the police do not get it then the mafia will force it out of you.

7. Pattaya is a dump and you will end up broke, alcoholic and on a plane within 6 months.

Just a few thoughts. Actually it is not as easy as I describe to run a bar in Thailand in this sector. If you have experience of this in your home country it may work, if not then you are very brave.

[IamMaiC]

Keep Him away from Tall buildings also

[JohnnieWalker]

My plan is to move to Thailand and buy a ladybar

Before you take the step, please read VERY carefully one of the other threads on this forum about "the best way to commit suicide in Thailand"

And if you really wanna come, then some of the above posters have provided some brilliant advice.

Be careful kid, the last 20 years I have seen hundreds of people being burned on bar business in Pattaya.

No, correct that to THOUSANDS of ....

[Darknight]

Dreaaaammm, dream dream dream, dreeeaaaaam..... and so on the song goes....

[davethailand]

Best advice I can give is DO NOT DO IT!!!!!

If you are already running successful bars and joints in Amerstdam or Rotterdam then you are just the sort who will succeed here, if not you will be eaten up.

The problems:

1. You will need to be there 14/7.

2. They will all steal from you or try to.

3. The customers are scum (nice scum of course). Do not expect to have polite conversations and regular clients.

4. You will have to deal with HIV+ drug addict prostitutes working in your bar (a few anyway)

5. The police will take your money

6. If the police do not get it then the mafia will force it out of you.

7. Pattaya is a dump and you will end up broke, alcoholic and on a plane within 6 months.

Just a few thoughts. Actually it is not as easy as I describe to run a bar in Thailand in this sector. If you have experience of this in your home country it may work, if not then you are very brave.

some of this is true, some of it is way over the top.

3. The customers are scum (nice scum of course). Do not expect to have polite conversations and regular clients.

4. You will have to deal with HIV+ drug addict prostitutes working in your bar (a few anyway)

5. The police will take your money

6. If the police do not get it then the mafia will force it out of you.

7. Pattaya is a dump and you will end up broke, alcoholic and on a plane within 6 months.

do not take in all of this, it is not all true.

the wrong kind of bar owners in pattaya get this treatment.

this guy obviousley just hates pattaya, if it was'nt for his member name bkk-banger i'd swear he was from hua hin.

[britmaveric]

Dave- use you as a prime example. Live music Niche is spot on and you have a great location.

Pattaya is a great place- I think if you want to be successful, you just need to be a step above the fray.

[BKK_banger]

some of this is true, some of it is way over the top.

do not take in all of this, it is not all true.

the wrong kind of bar owners in pattaya get this treatment.

this guy obviousley just hates pattaya, if it was'nt for his member name bkk-banger i'd swear he was from hua hin.

OK, you got me, I actually love running bars in Pattaya. I am just trying to keep out the competition from ruining the sweet deal I have with the lovely ladies in paradise.

Actually that is not true either. The truth is somewhere in the middle, leaning more heavily in Pattaya to the grim end and in Hua Hin to the soporific.

[davethailand]

some of this is true, some of it is way over the top.

do not take in all of this, it is not all true.

the wrong kind of bar owners in pattaya get this treatment.

this guy obviousley just hates pattaya, if it was'nt for his member name bkk-banger i'd swear he was from hua hin.

OK, you got me, I actually love running bars in Pattaya. I am just trying to keep out the competition from ruining the sweet deal I have with the lovely ladies in paradise.

Actually that is not true either. The truth is somewhere in the middle, leaning more heavily in Pattaya to the grim end and in Hua Hin to the soporific.

I am just trying to keep out the competition from ruining the sweet deal I have with the lovely ladies in paradise.

i'll drink to that

[mowlem]

This is what the Baron had to say on the subject

Why go-go?

I have often wondered why so many seemingly sane people want to get involved in a go-go business in Thailand. I have written about the pitfalls (business) and the cons but I was wandering around Nana Plaza last night chatting to a few managers and owners when a penny dropped.

This article is not about the cons: there are plenty of go-go bars with 150% or more of the shares sold. There is certainly one go-go company that looks suspiciously like a pyramid that must come crashing down sooner or later. However there are also quite a few individuals who have invested properly and diligently and have, as far as is possible, a legitimate business. Particularly in Bangkok such an investment is not Mickey Mouse money, unless of course you are a Boss Hog. Assuming the investment is not a worthless minority shareholding it is unlikely that the deal will be less than 5 million Baht, and probably double, or more than that.

The problem I suspect is lies, well not lies but porkies ( untruths). The reason I say this is because I sat in Nana on Thursday night and counted them in and counted them out. Well not quite, but there were few enough punters to do that without needing an abacus. So the following night I am trundling around and chatting to bar managers. How is business I ask? ‘Good, never been better,’ is the standard reply.

‘Last night was a bit quiet?’ I suggest.

‘No, had a really good night, we were full!’

This is the point: nobody ever has a bad night. Believe the owners and managers and every night at Nana Plaza is a bonus night. But I know differently. Talk to the main go-go group in the plaza and the profit figures, per go-go, are stupendous even in the worst seasons. However the profit figures sound awfully like the turnover figures to me, after I have done a little counting and watching!

Now, there is nothing wrong with this. Why should somebody tell you what their business is? And is it not human nature to suggest anything other than the fact you are doing very well. In fact I have always added ‘my business is doing very well thank you,’ to the list of biggest lies. Of course if you are buying then you expect to get the real figures. But what are the real figures? The tax returns (nobody pays any worthwhile tax) are going to show a minimal profit. The figures to sell the business are going to show the business in the very best light possible.

In the UK when buying a bar (pub) the main figures, often provided, are the barrelage figures. These are provided by the brewers and are pretty reliable. I am pleased to say that metrication has not yet reached the British brewer. A barrel is 36 gallons of beer, and an average tenanted pub will do around 300 per annum. In addition, figures in galleons, on spirits, wines and soft drinks will be provided.

So getting back to valuing that Bangkok go-go. Somebody somewhere should know how many cases of beer have been sold and how many bottles of spirits, etc. Of course the problem is that many suppliers do not supply proper invoices as most businesses do not want them! But I am sure figures can be dug up. I suppose if all else fails the last month’s inputs would give a good clue as to the real level of business.

Then, of course, there is the final and significant figure: the number of offs. I am not sure how that would fit into brewery terminology, I suppose in keeping with barrels it should be in ‘gross.’ The annual grossage of offs can thus be calculated. So combine these figures with your price list and now you have your revenue.

So what are the outgoings? There are fixed costs like rent, but many are not fixed, for instance staffing and marketing (buying punters drinks). But this is where it all goes tits up. Not enough girls on the poles means not enough to attract customers, too many and your bottom line goes negative. Enough management is needed, mamasans and managers, to make certain everything works, but they tend to cost money. Doormen, service personnel, DJs, etc., all add to the staff costs. A good system is required to make certain that the money taken goes to the business, and not into somebody else’s pocket. I know of a go-go that recently fired all its cashiers and pourers as they were caught ‘with their fingers in the till.’ I know another place where the behind the counter staff are clearly ‘at it’ but the management think removing them will cause too many problems. A wrong attitude in my experience but trying to clear out a whole section is a massive problem. How do you manage your dancing girls, when do you cut salaries and what for?

Those are just the simple management problems of operating the business. The problems of running it are even greater. How do you attract customers? How do you attract good girls? What music should your DJ play and getting him to play it? How do you keep customers? How do you keep girls if they are not busy? Girls want offs as much as you want them, that is where the real money is. No offs, equals no girls.

Then there are the real imponderables of; closing times, whether or not showing is allowed, days that the police close all the bars, and the petty jealousies and bitchiness of your competitors. If a bar does well expect the nearby bar owners to complain and report, correctly or otherwise, that bar for everything from staying open late to drug sales, etc. And believe you me, that is not just the Thai owners, some of the biggest complainers in the Plaza are farangs. There is no live and let live: it is: ‘get the bastards if you can!’

So this is what I was thinking about last night as I sat in the plaza. Why do so many people want to get into this (semi-illegal) business? Experienced bar owners in the Plaza reckon that any investment must come back within 18 months, particularly with all the present uncertainties. However no Nana business is likely to be sold on that basis, because the desire exceeds the common sense. Desire for what: a business, a lifestyle in Bangkok or a desire to be a pimp?

Well, a good business as I have just suggested, it is not. Some got in early and benefited from being in the right place at the right time! Of course some succeed and do well. But they are few and far between and normally the business that does well is not the first.

The lifestyle is terrible, it involves a commitment most nights from 6 pm to 3 am, too much drink and plenty of headaches as things go wrong! So assuming that the average person has enough sense to work out the reality of running a go-go there can only be one driving force behind buying a go-go. They believe the porkies because they want to.

Why do they want to believe that all that grime in the plaza must turn to gold?

Because most just want to be a pimp!

I know it isn't Pattaya, but the idea is the same.

[penelope]

Why not open an elite,exclusive bar, very professionally run, with the very best "top shelf" quality women and 5-star services that money can buy.There are plenty of men in BKK with loads of money to throw around !!

[Up2U]

I made money, in Patong Beach, Soi SeaDragon.

But - I was there for three months setting it up (high season) working 12/7 - giving g/f instrution in what to watch for, how to control inventory, how to keep staff and customers happy.

Went away on a posting for four months, came back - the place was doing no business. OK - it was low season. Checked the books and this had been happening from the day I left - poor stock management, no regulars (found some of them in Ned Kelley's) and so on. Stayed and built it up again for six months - then gave it to (ex) g/f and cleared out.

She couldn't make a go of it in high season, sold it on to some other wannabee.

[cobra]

Why not open an elite,exclusive bar, very professionally run, with the very best "top shelf" quality women and 5-star services that money can buy.There are plenty of men in BKK with loads of money to throw around !!

...aka. the "Art Bars" on Soi 33, Bkk, etc,

[udon]

If you want to see a successful op, go look at The Office in soi 33/1.

They are full when the rest of the soi 33 bars are empty. No go-go's!

[Dickie]

For every success there are hundreds of failures in that game. Plentyof Brits have gone over there to 'make a killing' and return looking like the victim of the hit.

Avoid, m'thinks.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Hello, I am a young man (25) from Holland and I have a relationship with a Thai lady for 7 months now. My plan is to move to Thailand and buy a ladybar in Pattaya after 2 or 3 years.

I can use ALL the information I can get about moving to Thailand, visas and about buying/having a ladybar. I really need some help.

Thank you very much in advance!

If your objective is to make money. I can think of many other businesses that can make much more money than a ladybar in Pattaya. Have fun?... yes but make money, odds are simply against it for it supporting your lady friend and yourself.

Are all bars this way? Certainly not. Its all about location and management. In fact, we have been involved in business transfers where the bar was claiming to make 8 million and doing 10 million net a year now. Another was doing 9 million net before and doing 12 million now. We are shareholders in one that is making even higher than that, it caters to a Thai crowd with live bands. I have first hand looked at a number of bars books which were approved by auditors. Easy money no but most that were doing 3-4 million gross a month make anywhere net from 10% to 25% of that number. Well know and well manage clubs.

How bout beer bars in Bangkok? The ones directly outside Nana plaza certainly do very well. The ones that are a block away walking to the Omni... marginal at best.

My best advice, go into a service type of business if you're interested in money. Bar business is only good if you are investing in a big project. Beer bars are not your ticket to paradise.

If this is a hobby or want a place to say " I'm the Boss" then it's a different story. Certainly you then may be a good buyer for a beer bar as the ticket for a dream is cheap enough. 500,000 Baht to a million Baht is the norm if not even cheaper.

www.sunbeltasia.com

[royar2002]

Think twice, pattaya have already been in this bussiness for 30years, the farangs who make money from a ladybar in Pattaya is farangs who knows pattaya for long time and are a <deleted>***** good manager. To start a new ladybar in Pattaya at the moment, is a stupid Idea. If you are the man for do bussiness, you will find other options in Thailand.

[keestha]

Luuk,

You cannot compare a Pattaya beerbar with a bar in a Dutch city which is doing well. In a well frequented bar in Holland, the barkeeper will be making draft beers continuously, sometimes having to request the customers to wait a little bit because he has to rinse glasses. And a Pattaya beerbar? Every now and then a girl will walk to the fridge to take out a Chang beer for the customer she is chatting with. Especially small beerbars often seem busier than they really are......two guys come in, than two of the girls working there will sit next to them, and so will the owner and his wife/girlfriend, then most barstools are occupied but there are only two paying customers. Just spend one night in a busy Pattaya beerbar and keep track of the turnover, most likely it will be peanuts compared to the turnover a well frequented bar in Holland makes.

[theviking]

I had the same dream when i was 20.

Go to thailand, start a beer bar, be "the boss", and keep track of all the money just flying over the bardesk.

Why dont you give it a couple of years, or so....and rather try to explore how the bars are managing?

I bet my left foot that you are going to change you're opinion within a few months.

I needed 4 years to get my brain on the right track, but i noe realise that beer bars is for me to enjoy, not for me to manage.

As someone else said.....if you really can do buiseness, try another, you will get more income of that.

If you anyway are going to start up, i just wish you all the luck you can get.

p.s. f the girls dont rob you, the police will and if they dont do, you will be squeezed out by other bar owners.....ENJOY....

[12call]

some of this is true, some of it is way over the top.

do not take in all of this, it is not all true.

the wrong kind of bar owners in pattaya get this treatment.

this guy obviousley just hates pattaya, if it was'nt for his member name bkk-banger i'd swear he was from hua hin.

OK, you got me, I actually love running bars in Pattaya. I am just trying to keep out the competition from ruining the sweet deal I have with the lovely ladies in paradise.

Actually that is not true either. The truth is somewhere in the middle, leaning more heavily in Pattaya to the grim end and in Hua Hin to the soporific.

I am just trying to keep out the competition from ruining the sweet deal I have with the lovely ladies in paradise.

i'll drink to that

I'll drink to anything!!!

[davethailand]

WE KNOW

[steve101]

a friend of mine has brought 3 bars two at the top of soi 9 one has a live band that r not bad and the other has a show

he has to pay for the show as he is in a complex where u have to do this trouble is he cant play music when show is on and u cant really see the show with out getting neck ache

the other bar is in soi 2 been there a bit it is down nr the toilets and is very quiet

he went on a visa run and when he returned the staff had drunk most of the beer and spirits

they obviously had a good night but he didnt

it looks very stressfull and he is all ways in competition with surrounding bars

pattaya is not all ways busy but he still has to fork out the wage bill

my advice is dont bother stear well clear of bars and by the sounds of it most businesses in thailand

id do anything to move out there but ive been through the bar options...in fact been through most options

and still trying to sort it!!

[meom]

Luuk you can make a lot of money in the bar business once you know how to manage it as a laundry shop

[falong]

Troll

[theviking]

steve101 wrote:

id do anything to move out there but ive been through the bar options...in fact been through most options

and still trying to sort it!!

What about teaching, steve?

Thats the easiest way.