Begging Buddhist Monks

[Haydn]

Several times withing the last two weeks I have been asked for money by Buddist monks after I have made a donation of food to them and once stopped in the street.

They have all asked for travelling expenses to different parts of Thailand and I was told that 100bt was not enough for fare to Bangkok.

I refused to give anything the last few times but my wife insists that I should as it is 'making merit' but my reading leads me to believe they are going against the Buddist Monk rules.

What is your opinion.

[lannarebirth]

Several times withing the last two weeks I have been asked for money by Buddist monks after I have made a donation of food to them and once stopped in the street.

They have all asked for travelling expenses to different parts of Thailand and I was told that 100bt was not enough for fare to Bangkok.

I refused to give anything the last few times but my wife insists that I should as it is 'making merit' but my reading leads me to believe they are going against the Buddist Monk rules.

What is your opinion.

What you have described is not usual from my experience. I have stopped travelling monks to ask if they were in need of anything and made offers with no solicitation. Every offer has been refused. On a couple of occasions I've given rides but they would take nothing, and blessed my truck upon disembarking.

I believe what you experienced is against the vinaya rules. That said, there has been a big solicitation of funds for wats this past few weeks here in the north. One can hardly drive anywhere on rural highways without being stopped by groups of laypersons outside wats soliciting offerings. Monks do not take part in these activities. What you've described sounds very different, and judging only from my own experiences, wrong.

[Brucenkhamen]

Yes it is against the monks rules. I've never seen even the most lax monks ask strangers for money in s way, money is usually given to the monastery at monastic ceremonies.

If a monk asks you for money he is not a good monk so tell your wife she won't get any merit.

If they have a lay person with them to handle the money you could give it to them, but even so they should never ask for it unless you've invited them to tell you what they might need.

[sabaijai]

Yes it is against the monks rules. I've never seen even the most lax monks ask strangers for money in s way, money is usually given to the monastery at monastic ceremonies.

If a monk asks you for money he is not a good monk so tell your wife she won't get any merit.

If they have a lay person with them to handle the money you could give it to them, but even so they should never ask for it unless you've invited them to tell you what they might need.

Good advice.

[cm-happy]

yes, its against Monks rules.

BUT HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY ARE REALLY MONKS, just because they're are wearing the robes?

I've & b/f have seen a guy around Chiang Mai doing exactly as you describe. ITS A SCAM, He's not really a monk!! so be ware!

Have not seen him around in a while, think the police picked hum up.

[rahu07]

No doubt there are always Black Sheeps everywhere. Real Monk will not ask for Money. But Bogus monk do! Usually I will just walk away when monks start to talk about money.

[TokyoT]

I have not been asked verbally, but over the past few weeks I have seen several monks with what appear to be their alms bowls outstretched in the Suk area. Even saw one of the women in white buy the escalator entrance to the Nana BTS station (the one that used to have a Family Mart) with bowl in her hands in a “begging” type of pose.

[guru]

Saw one of those "monks" come into a bar on Sukhumvit asking for donations. Something not quite right there.

[trader1]

I have not been asked verbally, but over the past few weeks I have seen several monks with what appear to be their alms bowls outstretched in the Suk area. Even saw one of the women in white buy the escalator entrance to the Nana BTS station (the one that used to have a Family Mart) with bowl in her hands in a "begging" type of pose.

Yes she must be raking her in, I see her quite often. There were some aggressive mahayana monks on around sukumvit 11-15 on sunday, stopping tourists and asking for money.

[Mosha]

A couple of years ago a "monk"approched my Thai wife and I. He asked for money to go back to his Wat in BKK. Sopa told him to go ask at the main Wat in Ranong for assistance. She said to me "He's not a monk, monks don't ask for money."

[AYJAYDEE]

Several times withing the last two weeks I have been asked for money by Buddist monks after I have made a donation of food to them and once stopped in the street.

They have all asked for travelling expenses to different parts of Thailand and I was told that 100bt was not enough for fare to Bangkok.

I refused to give anything the last few times but my wife insists that I should as it is 'making merit' but my reading leads me to believe they are going against the Buddist Monk rules.

What is your opinion.

Its not up to you to keep a monk on the straight and narrow. but giving money to a monk is a charitable act that can opnly benefirt you. if the asking adds to the unskillful acts of the monk, that is his dilemma.

so, like any charitable act, giving benefits the giver. so its up to you

[Prakanong]

There are quite a few operate down here in Singapore - openly pushing alms bowls in front of people.

I have seen them remitting money home from Golden Mile Complex on many an afternoon as well as seeing them with thai women out and about.

Every so often there is a story in the paper about them and it goes quiet for a while.

[toptuan]

A few months back I was at Mo-chit (northern terminal) bus station waiting on the platform for my bus, and a rather tall monk walked up to me asking for money. Remembering what I'd read on a couple of previous TV threads about this, I declined. My suspicions were confirmed in about 5 minutes when I saw a policeman arresting the presumably bogus monk and leading him off to possibly a place where he can meditate in better seclusion from the population at large...

[trader1]

Several times withing the last two weeks I have been asked for money by Buddist monks after I have made a donation of food to them and once stopped in the street.

They have all asked for travelling expenses to different parts of Thailand and I was told that 100bt was not enough for fare to Bangkok.

I refused to give anything the last few times but my wife insists that I should as it is 'making merit' but my reading leads me to believe they are going against the Buddist Monk rules.

What is your opinion.

Its not up to you to keep a monk on the straight and narrow. but giving money to a monk is a charitable act that can opnly benefirt you. if the asking adds to the unskillful acts of the monk, that is his dilemma.

so, like any charitable act, giving benefits the giver. so its up to you

In what way could it benefit the monk? Monks are not permitted to hold money, nor are they allowed to beg for anything.

[sutnyod]

I gave two monks a lift when I was driving through a quite remote area and took them where they wanted to go. Of course I had asked them before whether it is okay for them to travel with a woman alone and they said no problem. When we arrived, one of them asked me also for money (although I had chatted with them the whole long drive and they knew I was a volunteer with no big money). The monk was even so helpful as to open his bag to me so I was spared the inconvenience of having to hand over the money to him (THAT I would not have done anyway ). I was so perplex I just dropped him a 100 THB. But that was the last time I did such a thing. I guess they were real monks alright, because we run into police roadblocks on the way and were checked (ID and all).

[AYJAYDEE]

Several times withing the last two weeks I have been asked for money by Buddist monks after I have made a donation of food to them and once stopped in the street.

They have all asked for travelling expenses to different parts of Thailand and I was told that 100bt was not enough for fare to Bangkok.

I refused to give anything the last few times but my wife insists that I should as it is 'making merit' but my reading leads me to believe they are going against the Buddist Monk rules.

What is your opinion.

Its not up to you to keep a monk on the straight and narrow. but giving money to a monk is a charitable act that can opnly benefirt you. if the asking adds to the unskillful acts of the monk, that is his dilemma.

so, like any charitable act, giving benefits the giver. so its up to you

In what way could it benefit the monk? Monks are not permitted to hold money, nor are they allowed to beg for anything.

it gives him his bus fare. as for long term benefits towards his enlightenment, i dont believe i suggested there were any.

[stateman]

There were some aggressive mahayana monks on around sukumvit 11-15 on sunday, stopping tourists and asking for money.

Sound like some lay person faking to be monk out to make money. Don't fall for it.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Saw one of those "monks" come into a bar on Sukhumvit asking for donations. Something not quite right there.

into the bar !

[luumak]

have seen fake monks in pattaya now in high season. joke.

monks accept money which is usually given by people with too hectic lifestyle. it is placed on top of the begging bowl. usually monks go begging with another or a few or many monks but at times in modern thailand by themselves. a monk should have his rounds wrapped up before 8-9am sure! a monk will never ask for money. nost of those scam monks do not wear a 'proper' mahayana robe so they can always say they are a holy person. to untrained eye they nay appear to be a monk.

mae chi in thailand and parts of thailand will beg in the late afternoon. these times never cross w/ monks begging times.

no one begs money!!

monks in thailand do lots of crazy stuff though. in the paast they have killed people and i saw one only a few days ago smoking a cigarette in his robe in the train station. thailand unlike say burma does not take buddhism seriously the monks or the people. thailand is a typical modern society with a patina of rituals.

ps: if you are not a buddhist you need not make ANY merit. tehy are not black magicians.

Edited December 16, 2007 by luumak

[torrenova]

I don't have a lot of time for them. I don't mind the missus making some food and going to the local temple in rural Buriram where the moks are genuinely grateful and a couple of hundred in an envelope is the norm. However, I see little benefit in adding to the coffers of the profesional monks and temples in urban Pattaya. That is more a tourist attraction than a religous event.

[guru]

Saw one of those "monks" come into a bar on Sukhumvit asking for donations. Something not quite right there.

into the bar !

I kid you not Dr. The bar on Sukhumvit in which I was approached shares its name with the more luxorious one found in the oriental hotel.

[camerata]

and i saw one only a few days ago smoking a cigarette in his robe in the train station.

It is not against the monastic code or any precept to smoke, although some abbots (such as Ajahn Chah) may forbid it.

[pop3]

My old girlfriends farther was a monk I got to know him quite well, Monks can travel free in Thailand, even the dreaded baht bus drivers of Pattaya allow them to go free !

[yorkman]

ummm.... I had a monk (not a forgery according to the TW) ahead of me in a Tesco.

He paid cash from his purse, I was aghast!!!! Just a bad monk says the TW.

It's common... don't worry about it, TIT

On the other hand dont think about the precepts eh??. As long as you can interpret as you "think" and can "moderate" as you believe See up

Edited December 16, 2007 by yorkman

[pointofview]

I was sitting at an outside restaurant in pattaya happily eating my fish and chips when a monk came over and pointed to my plate. I quite happily gave him some of my chips - which he accepted gratefully. I concluded that he was a chip-monk

[luumak]

camerata: technically no and in fact you will see many older monks smoking in burma but seeing this young monk light up a pre rolled fag somehow flies in the face of it all. btw: huge and main buddist tennant: extinguish desires, no intoxicants no?

monks carry and use money as no one really supports the order any more (at least the young people).they can be seen many times buying tickets or simple things and no thai steps in to pay - tit. if it were not for the government the whole thing would have crumbled in thailand years ago.

i have actually given my seat on bts to both a catholic nun and a monk and both elderly. so when i hear about thailand and buddhism i scoff. they are all down at erawan praying for the lucky number for the lottery.

Edited December 17, 2007 by luumak

[slapout]

I have seen a yellow robed person enter bars here in

chiang Mai asking for donation via envelope. Do not know if he is bonified monk or not, but he may be associated with Wats who borrowed money to make amulates and lost money when demand went down, and they were asking for help to repay loans from banks ( recent news report) I will not express my thoughts on either of them.

[cm-happy]

I have seen a yellow robed person enter bars here in

chiang Mai asking for donation via envelope. Do not know if he is bonified monk or not, but he may be associated with Wats who borrowed money to make amulates and lost money when demand went down, and they were asking for help to repay loans from banks ( recent news report) I will not express my thoughts on either of them.

Monks, in Thailand, when they leave their wats, are required to take with them their id as monks.

The Monk id (bi sue tee)is similar to a passport in size and shape and is yellow and identifies them as a legitimate Monk. Totally different from the Nomal Thai Id that most Thai citizens have and cary with them. The id is issued to them by their wat.

So easy enough to ask "Monk", if you are suspicious, for his Monk ID. If not have, then not a real Monk. Try to enlist the aid of nearby Thais to intervene(think they would be enraged at someone possing as a Monk, especially in a bar) let the police deal with the culprit.

But I'm curious. What bar in CM did the "monk" go into?

[camerata]

camerata: technically no and in fact you will see many older monks smoking in burma but seeing this young monk light up a pre rolled fag somehow flies in the face of it all. btw: huge and main buddist tennant: extinguish desires, no intoxicants no?

The precept can be extended to cover substances that might "destroy mindfulness and lead to heedlessness," but I doubt tobacco falls into that category. A note in the Layman's Guide to the Vinaya says:

98. It would seem that in order to treat other substances in the same way as alcohol, they should significantly distort or impair one's mindfulness. (As in the Fifth Precept.) Smoking cigarettes, drinking coffee or tea would therefore not normally be included in this rule. However, as lay people are the ones that supply such things, they can decide for themselves what items they consider appropriate to give to bhikkhus. (Certain communities may decide some of these items are 'unhealthy' or 'addictive' and therefore not allow them.)

99. "There is no mention in the Pali canon of any other of the many intoxicating substances which are known today. However, applying the Great Standards, it seems appropriate to include within this guideline all strong mood-altering substances, for example, narcotics, hallucinogenics, amphetamines, sedatives, etc. The main thrust of this guideline is not to just refrain from liquor, but rather to refrain from all substances which cause heedlessness, mental confusion and disorientation. In our modern-day, pill-popping society it may be hard to appreciate the real value of this particular guideline. However, for those serious about the cultivation of mind through meditation exercises, one's ordinary confusion is quite enough to deal with — not to mention compounding it with powerful foreign substances." (HS.ch.17)

I agree that anyone serious about attaining enlightenment would want to eliminate a strong craving like smoking, but most monks in Thailand became monastics for other reasons. If the Sangha and temple abbots don't prohibit smoking, who are we to criticise?

monks carry and use money as no one really supports the order any more (at least the young people).they can be seen many times buying tickets or simple things and no thai steps in to pay - tit. if it were not for the government the whole thing would have crumbled in thailand years ago.

It seems to me that the real problem is the main activity of the Buddhist laity these days is donating to the Sangha to obtain a better rebirth. As people increasingly give money - because it is more convenient than food or labour - the Sangha becomes increasingly reliant on money.

i have actually given my seat on bts to both a catholic nun and a monk and both elderly. so when i hear about thailand and buddhism i scoff. they are all down at erawan praying for the lucky number for the lottery.

Brahmanism and animism predated Buddhism in Thailand and, since Buddhism is tolerant, exist alongside it. People turn to animism and (sometimes) Brahmanism for help in this life and to Buddhism for security in the next. That's just the way it is in Asia.

[camerata]

So easy enough to ask "Monk", if you are suspicious, for his Monk ID. If not have, then not a real Monk. Try to enlist the aid of nearby Thais to intervene(think they would be enraged at someone possing as a Monk, especially in a bar) let the police deal with the culprit.

I suspect that monks who go soliciting cash in farang bars are bogus monks rather than lax but genuine monks. Any bogus monk worth his salt would surely have a bogus monk ID.