Exit Poll Results Show PPP Wins

[John K]

Nopadon has learnt from the master pretty well.

From today's Bkk Post.

Khunying Potjaman Shinawatra returned to Thailand to fight corruption charges, not to engage in politics, family legal adviser Noppadon Pattama says.

Mr Noppadon, who is deputy secretary-general of the People Power party (PPP), said the wife of ousted prime minister Thaksin has no authority in the party. Only party leader Samak Sundaravej and party executives would have a say in the cabinet line-up.

His comments came after speculation that Khunying Potjaman had a political agenda in her return, playing a role in screening cabinet ministers as the PPP tries to form a coalition government after winning the Dec 23 election.

Mr Noppadon, who failed in the party-list contest, insisted that Khunying Potjaman was coming back to defend herself against graft allegations and to pay her respects to Her Royal Highness Princess Galyani Vadhana.

He also voiced concerns over the Assets Scrutiny Committee's (ASC) investigations following a meeting between ASC members and Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont yesterday.

Soundman.

So if you apply the Thaksin 180 turn from the truth to this you get..........

[Plus]

I remember that Pojamarn was linked to Cyber World building on Ratchada one way or another, some years ago,

AND now it came back to me - it was planned for expansion of her original Software Park on Chaengwattana.

Easy to find confirmation now:

"The Nation had a recent article mentioning the building as a possible location for the planned Sriwara High Tech project: The building project, Sriwara High Tech, is valued at about one billion baht and was transferred to Pojamarn Shinawatra when the project owner closed it down.... Another candidate for the software park is the Ratchada Square project, across from Robinson Shopping Centre. Plans for this software park follow the success of the National Science and Technology Development Agency's software park on Chaengwattana Road. Despite a slow start it now claims full occupancy. (from FRIENDS IN HIGH PLACES: Tenant for Pojamarn?, The Nation, December 24, 2001, )"

http://www.angkor.com/cityrain/got0201.shtml

[Prakanong]

I guess it depends on who you talk to. I recommend giving this a few days and when a few investigative journalists read this thread and they start asking questions, it make shake loose a few apples from the tree.

Well not really.

TCC Land is a joint venture between TCC Group (K.Charoen) and Capital Land of Singapore. Capital Land is about the largest property company in Asia and is listed on the Singapore stock exchange. The idea that they would use their company as a secret nominee for Poljamarn's assets is quite simply ludicrous. (The idea that K.Charoen would do the same seems pretty far fetched.)

Its bar talk fantasy by people who obviously do not know who Charoen or Captialand are.

The Bangkok rumour mill certanly is working overtime but even when proof is brought as to th companies involved the obsession with the Shinawatra family clouds all judgement.

Amazing Thailand

[younghusband]

It certainly looks like some people want to embarrass themselves by describing the book after reading only the first chapter. However we shall see I guess.

I think a spirit of generosity and good faith is in order here notwithstanding the innocent merriment you have been giving the cognoscenti today.Since you have been making the running on this, may we leave it to you to report back to the forum on say 1 February.By that time the investigative journalists who monitor our important discusions will have done their work, and published the facts - namely that Cyber Tower is in fact owned not by Charoen but by the Shinawatra clan albeit under some devious arrangement.I have diaried the date and will remind you shortly before.In the meantime good luck with your sleuthing.

Edited January 10, 2008 by younghusband

[Prakanong]

It certainly looks like some people want to embarrass themselves by describing the book after reading only the first chapter. However we shall see I guess.

I think a spirit of generosity and good faith is in order here notwithstanding the innocent merriment you have been giving the cognoscenti today.Since you have been making the running on this, may we leave it to you to report back to the forum on say 1 February.By that time the investigative journalists who monitor our important discusions will have done their work, and published the facts - namely that Cyber Tower is in fact owned not by Charoen but by the Shinawatra clan albeit under some devious arrangement.I have diaried the date and will remind you shortly before.In the meantime good luck with your sleuthing.

Now now.... This is a boon for conspiracy theorists

Captialand is about 40% owned by Temasek and who did Thaksin sell his company to that kicked off the crisis???

There might be a shooter on the grassy knoll and the Israeli's and CIA brought down the twin towers - David Irving said he wil take a look when he has proved the holocaust did not happen but the Japanese want him to work on the Nanjing case first.!

Edited January 10, 2008 by Prakanong

[younghusband]

I remember that Pojamarn was linked to Cyber World building on Ratchada one way or another, some years ago,

AND now it came back to me - it was planned for expansion of her original Software Park on Chaengwattana.

Easy to find confirmation now:

"The Nation had a recent article mentioning the building as a possible location for the planned Sriwara High Tech project: The building project, Sriwara High Tech, is valued at about one billion baht and was transferred to Pojamarn Shinawatra when the project owner closed it down.... Another candidate for the software park is the Ratchada Square project, across from Robinson Shopping Centre. Plans for this software park follow the success of the National Science and Technology Development Agency's software park on Chaengwattana Road. Despite a slow start it now claims full occupancy. (from FRIENDS IN HIGH PLACES: Tenant for Pojamarn?, The Nation, December 24, 2001, )"

http://www.angkor.com/cityrain/got0201.shtml

Don't really understand the relevance of this myself but I expect John K will be following up.He is reporting back to the forum by 1 February to demonstrate Cyber Tower is in fact owned by the Shinawatras and not by Charoen.

[Plus]

I understand she was a prospective tenant in that building, her future offices got burned.

What if someone finally gathers enough courage and blows up UBC offices - would it matter who owns their building or not?

There's nothing to suggest that Ratchada fire was an arson at the moment, btw.

[quiksilva]

I remember that Pojamarn was linked to Cyber World building on Ratchada one way or another, some years ago,

AND now it came back to me - it was planned for expansion of her original Software Park on Chaengwattana.

Easy to find confirmation now:

"The Nation had a recent article mentioning the building as a possible location for the planned Sriwara High Tech project: The building project, Sriwara High Tech, is valued at about one billion baht and was transferred to Pojamarn Shinawatra when the project owner closed it down.... Another candidate for the software park is the Ratchada Square project, across from Robinson Shopping Centre. Plans for this software park follow the success of the National Science and Technology Development Agency's software park on Chaengwattana Road. Despite a slow start it now claims full occupancy. (from FRIENDS IN HIGH PLACES: Tenant for Pojamarn?, The Nation, December 24, 2001, )"

http://www.angkor.com/cityrain/got0201.shtml

Don't really understand the relevance of this myself but I expect John K will be following up.He is reporting back to the forum by 1 February to demonstrate Cyber Tower is in fact owned by the Shinawatras and not by Charoen.

Why use TCC to own this property when they already have SC asset, which owns 3 office towers. Furthermore, the policies of management of the two companies are vastly different. If you ever dealt with them you would know that they are like chalk and cheese.

[soundman]

I understand she was a prospective tenant in that building, her future offices got burned.

What if someone finally gathers enough courage and blows up UBC offices - would it matter who owns their building or not?

There's nothing to suggest that Ratchada fire was an arson at the moment, btw.

Not suggesting anything - but fires rarely start by themselves.

Having worked for many years in the nightclub industry & having witnessed quite a few "accidental" fires, the suspicion and motive are always common knowledge, however physical proof is always hard to establish & the result almost always get written up as "faulty wiring".

[Prakanong]

I understand she was a prospective tenant in that building, her future offices got burned.

What if someone finally gathers enough courage and blows up UBC offices - would it matter who owns their building or not?

There's nothing to suggest that Ratchada fire was an arson at the moment, btw.

Not suggesting anything - but fires rarely start by themselves.

Having worked for many years in the nightclub industry & having witnessed quite a few "accidental" fires, the suspicion and motive are always common knowledge, however physical proof is always hard to establish & the result almost always get written up as "faulty wiring".

Yes, there seems to be a lot of faulty wiring or workers tools causes fires everywhere.

In Margate in the UK the owner ( a certain Mr Godden)of the amusement park wanted to close it down and open a shopping mall but he needed an access road from the sea front. It was amazing how fire broke out in two units the exact size needed for access where he would never have got permission to knock them down as i think they were listed.

A local ploceman put the fire down to, "An act of Godden"

[soundman]

Yes, there seems to be a lot of faulty wiring or workers tools causes fires everywhere.

In Margate in the UK the owner ( a certain Mr Godden)of the amusement park wanted to close it down and open a shopping mall but he needed an access road from the sea front. It was amazing how fire broke out in two units the exact size needed for access where he would never have got permission to knock them down as i think they were listed.

A local ploceman put the fire down to, "An act of Godden"

[John K]

EC requests original evidence against Yongyuth

(BangkokPost.com) - Election Commission (EC) member Sumet Upanisakorn underlined the need for the Special Branch Police handling an electoral fraud case involving deputy People Power party (PPP) leader Yongyuth Tiyapairat to show the original VCD used as main evidence in the case to the EC without delay.

Yesterday, Mr Yongyuth was only shown still photographs taken from the VCD recording.

“If the Special Branch Police does not release the original evidence to the EC, the VCD will not be regarded as an official form of evidence in this case,” Mr Sumet warned.

More here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=125018

[quiksilva]

I understand she was a prospective tenant in that building, her future offices got burned.

What if someone finally gathers enough courage and blows up UBC offices - would it matter who owns their building or not?

There's nothing to suggest that Ratchada fire was an arson at the moment, btw.

Not suggesting anything - but fires rarely start by themselves.

Having worked for many years in the nightclub industry & having witnessed quite a few "accidental" fires, the suspicion and motive are always common knowledge, however physical proof is always hard to establish & the result almost always get written up as "faulty wiring".

They also get started by dropped cigarettes by snoozing security guards and workers staying late. But then again there is very little that can be done to convince those who prefer to subscribe to conspiracy theories..

[sriracha john]

The Pee Pee Party is not the only one with difficulties from within...

Internal Rifts in Chart Thai Party

Internal rifts within the Chart Thai Party are becoming more apparent as some of the party’s MPs are uncomfortable with Chart Thai’s unofficial decision to join the People Power Party-led coalition. They’ve announced they will resign if the party goes ahead with the decision.

Unconfirmed reports have been spreading for several days that, since Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silapa-archa unofficially announced his decision to join the PPP led coalition, groups within the party became very unhappy. Those rumors were confirmed today as Chart Thai MP Uauychai Watta announced that he and several other MPs are considering leaving the party.

Uauychai goes on to explain that, when he and fellow members joined Chart Thai before the elections, it was clear that they represented several groups. Among these groups are the Thailand’s Teachers Association, the Assembly of Northeastern Farmers, and the Union of the Northeastern Co-operatives. As a representatives of these groups, Uauychai says he cannot agree with joining the People Power Party in a coalition.

He says that if party leader Banharn goes ahead, Uauychai and many of his fellow MPs will be forced to resign from Chart Thai because they feel that the PPP represents people from the former government whose ideals that they do not accept.

Uauychai says that although they have not started the official process of resigning, they will surely do so if and when Banharn officially announces the party’s decision to join the PPP led coalition.

Reports also indicate that the Ruam Jai Thai Chart Pattana Party is also experiencing similar undercurrents with many MPs unhappy with the party’s decision to join the PPP government coalition.

- Thailand Outlook

[quiksilva]

Some interesting analysis over at the political desk at the nation

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/01/09...on_30061619.php

[Prakanong]

Some interesting analysis over at the political desk at the nation

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/01/09...on_30061619.php

Very interesting - thanks.

My international observer view (Singapore Taxi driver this morning) was that they need to stop larking about and get a government.

A really nice old uncle he was with a son dealing in forex - he was quoting worldwide interest rates, property price growth in Singapore and GDP in the region off the top of his head!

[blaze]

People Power Party Deputy Leader Yongyuth Tiyapairat calls a press conference on Wednesday where he claims he was framed up in the Election Commission allegation of electoral fraud against him. His party could be dissolved if he is found guilty.

The Nation

Statements made by Mrs Sodhri in today's Nation would suggest that Yongyuth is not the only one who suspects a frame up- she too wants to know just how it was that all those Kamnan showed up - in a government vehicle.

And the chief piece of evidence? It sounds like the EC has not seen it yet. That it is in the hands of the Special Branch people- some have wondered why Yongyuth would buy votes in a riding he was assured of winning- maybe he didn't.

[marshbags]

The Pee Pee Party is not the only one with difficulties from within...

Internal Rifts in Chart Thai Party

Internal rifts within the Chart Thai Party are becoming more apparent as some of the party’s MPs are uncomfortable with Chart Thai’s unofficial decision to join the People Power Party-led coalition. They’ve announced they will resign if the party goes ahead with the decision.

Unconfirmed reports have been spreading for several days that, since Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silapa-archa unofficially announced his decision to join the PPP led coalition, groups within the party became very unhappy. Those rumors were confirmed today as Chart Thai MP Uauychai Watta announced that he and several other MPs are considering leaving the party.

Uauychai goes on to explain that, when he and fellow members joined Chart Thai before the elections, it was clear that they represented several groups. Among these groups are the Thailand’s Teachers Association, the Assembly of Northeastern Farmers, and the Union of the Northeastern Co-operatives. As a representatives of these groups, Uauychai says he cannot agree with joining the People Power Party in a coalition.

He says that if party leader Banharn goes ahead, Uauychai and many of his fellow MPs will be forced to resign from Chart Thai because they feel that the PPP represents people from the former government whose ideals that they do not accept.

Uauychai says that although they have not started the official process of resigning, they will surely do so if and when Banharn officially announces the party’s decision to join the PPP led coalition.

Reports also indicate that the Ruam Jai Thai Chart Pattana Party is also experiencing similar undercurrents with many MPs unhappy with the party’s decision to join the PPP government coalition.

- Thailand Outlook

Had the voters of the potential coalition parties wanted to support the PPP / TRT clones, then surely they would have voted directly and in doing otherwise are democratically voting in opposition to other parties, in this case as stated.

Perhaps the parties / officials concerned, should take this into account before taking the incentives being offered to encourage them to go against their voters wishes.

I would hope they are a little more than undercurrents.

marshbags

Edited January 10, 2008 by marshbags

[soundman]

Had the voters of the potential coalition parties wanted to support the PPP / TRT clones, then surely they would have voted directly and in doing otherwise are democratically voting in opposition to other parties, in this case as stated.

Perhaps the parties / officials concerned, should take this into account before taking the incentives being offered to encourage them to go against their voters wishes.

I would hope they are a little more than undercurrents.

marshbags

This comes back to my point that the average eligable voter really has no idea what that are actually voting for.

As far as the politicians are concerened, once they have the runs on the board, they can do whatever they like & not be accountable to the voting public because next time round everone will have forgotten the last time & just vote for whoever gives the biggest short term inducement.

Voter qualification & heavy penalties for those accepting cash for their votes are essential areas to address in Thailand to get a result for a progressive government that will form long lasting, economically & socially responsible / viable policies.

Soundman.

[blaze]

Had the voters of the potential coalition parties wanted to support the PPP / TRT clones, then surely they would have voted directly and in doing otherwise are democratically voting in opposition to other parties, in this case as stated.

Perhaps the parties / officials concerned, should take this into account before taking the incentives being offered to encourage them to go against their voters wishes.

I would hope they are a little more than undercurrents.

marshbags

This comes back to my point that the average eligable voter really has no idea what that are actually voting for.

As far as the politicians are concerened, once they have the runs on the board, they can do whatever they like & not be accountable to the voting public because next time round everone will have forgotten the last time & just vote for whoever gives the biggest short term inducement.

Voter qualification & heavy penalties for those accepting cash for their votes are essential areas to address in Thailand to get a result for a progressive government that will form long lasting, economically & socially responsible / viable policies.

Soundman.

What voter qualifications would you suggest? Start with those required in the country in which you are entitled to vote (assuming you believe that the voters in your home country meet those qualifications) and go from there.

Interesting that someone who would push for voter qualifications (determining, I assume, level of political awareness) would advocate 'progressive government'- there is, in every western nation, a large and very well educated group who would recoil at the prospect of 'progressive' government. But I'm sure you know that.

Evangelical Christians would agree with you though- they too would like to see a more 'informed' public- and so would post modern feminists who find that a lot of men require further education to qualify for citizenship- so would my friends on the extreme left who are appalled at the lack of awareness of class in contemporary socieities- as well as my conservative buddies who are convinced that the curriculums must address the woesome shortfalls in the proper history of the nation (whatever nation).

In other words- how do we set up a system of criteria that ensures that only people who vote the way we want them to are enfranchised?

Edited January 10, 2008 by blaze

[Plus]

Compulsory high school education with strong Social Studies subjects. Making flower pots from recycled plastic bottles for nine years doesn't cut it. Ssome basic political science MUST be covered in schools.

You can't exclude people who passed through the system already.

[soundman]

What voter qualifications would you suggest? Start with those required in the country in which you are entitled to vote (assuming you believe that the voters in your home country meet those qualifications) and go from there.

Why aren't teenagers eligable for the vote? Bacause they are generally considered under-educated, ill-equiped to make important decisions and not capable of free rational thought.

Now, from the way I see things that is not unlike the majority of the Thai electorate.

Hey, I'm only floating an idea for discussion. It doesn't necessarily mean I suscribe to it.

Edit: Whoops missed the rest.

I think "progressive" was maybe the wrong word to use from a "political" view. My understanding of that word comes from music - where I understand it to be taking a forward step in the right direction (if you like the flavour! ).

Edited January 10, 2008 by soundman

[John K]

What voter qualifications would you suggest? Start with those required in the country in which you are entitled to vote (assuming you believe that the voters in your home country meet those qualifications) and go from there.

Why aren't teenagers eligable for the vote? Bacause they are generally considered under-educated, ill-equiped to make important decisions and not capable of free rational thought.

Now, from the way I see things that is not unlike the majority of the Thai electorate.

Hey, I'm only floating an idea for discussion. It doesn't necessarily mean I suscribe to it.

Edit: Whoops missed the rest.

I think "progressive" was maybe the wrong word to use from a "political" view. My understanding of that word comes from music - where I understand it to be taking a forward step in the right direction (if you like the flavour! ).

Wow this could really drag this into a debate about the poor education system again. However as prejudges as it sounds, it is not far from the truth. That would be a very good thought to educate the people about politics. I am sure some religious group would gladly volunteer. That also would have the effect of letting people enjoy their beer at Big Dogs at the entrance to Nana Plaza without being disturbed.

[blaze]

Compulsory high school education with strong Social Studies subjects. Making flower pots from recycled plastic bottles for nine years doesn't cut it. Ssome basic political science MUST be covered in schools.

You can't exclude people who passed through the system already.

in a poll recently done, 66 percent of NYU students- who have more than the 9 years you advocate- would sell their right to vote.

Those who voted TRT (I won't extend this to the PPP- though I think it applies) voted as intelligently as any group I have seen. They voted for the party which promised to come closest to meeting their needs. This was the real threat that the TRT posed.

They set a precedent wherein the poor realized that through the electoral system, they would be able to get a more equal piece of the pie. And a lot of people don't want that. A lot of people would seek to 'educate' them to be happy with what they have and realize that what's good for the middle class and upper classes is also what's best for them. (remember the old adage- what's good for GM is good for America?- right!)

Somchai down the road doesn't believe that. And neither do some of the world's most esteemed (and educated) economists.

Yes better education would help- but it sure doesn't guarantee that the people will vote the way you or I might want them to. Get some of those Latin American liberation theology types - some neo-marxists- some agrarian socialists- let them draw up the political science course- and many will wish the people had NEVER even seen the inside of a school.

Edited January 10, 2008 by blaze

[John K]

Blaze, it is one thing to know and decide, and very much another to not know. At least soundman’s suggestion has merit and the more I think about it, being taught by Americans or anyone else from a democratic country is probably the best choice. That way in the future no Thai party can claim bias particularly if the Americans create their own syllabus.

[meemiathai]

If you want weird gossip, which may or may not be worth anything, here is one I heard last night from a an ex-TRT friend. Some of the PPP guys in one faction - it may be the Isaan faction although I am not sure how the factions go - are quite enjoying Yuths little problems as long as it only goes to red card as it will ensure more or more powerful cabinet seats for their faction if Yuth goes down without obviously bringing the whole house down with him. Dont know how reliable in all honesty but it sounds kind of beleivable in the byzantine world of Thai politics and would put yet another spin on the whole Yuth story.

Not wierd at all.

[Prakanong]

Blaze, it is one thing to know and decide, and very much another to not know. At least soundman's suggestion has merit and the more I think about it, being taught by Americans or anyone else from a democratic country is probably the best choice. That way in the future no Thai party can claim bias particularly if the Americans create their own syllabus.

This gets better - you are advocating the Americans turn up in Thailand and educate the Thai's about democracy.

A tad arrogant is it not - do you not think you had better finish the jobs you have already started elsewhere before you take on too much - overstretch is creeping in and you need to take care of a lot more first.

I really can not beleive some of the posters on this thread - they want to end democracy in Thailand and have dictatorships or they think Americans should teach the Thai's about democracy.

Do you know the history of Thailand during the Vietnam war etc? - you were not exactly advocating democracy in the country then when it was being raped and buggered by corrupt dictatorships.

As if the American can teach anyone about democracy.

There is a global shift taking place my dear chap and its moving to the east.

Edited January 10, 2008 by Prakanong

[John K]

Blaze, it is one thing to know and decide, and very much another to not know. At least soundman's suggestion has merit and the more I think about it, being taught by Americans or anyone else from a democratic country is probably the best choice. That way in the future no Thai party can claim bias particularly if the Americans create their own syllabus.

This gets better - you are advocating the Americans turn up in Thailand and educate the Thai's about democracy.

A tad arrogant is it not - do you not think you had better finish the jobs you have already started elsewhere before you take on too much - overstretch is creeping in and you need to take care of a lot more first.

I really can not beleive some of the posters on this thread - they want to end democracy in Thailand and have dictatorships or they think Americans should teach the Thai's about democracy.

Do you know the history of Thailand during the Vietnam war etc? - you were not exactly advocating democracy in the country then when it was being raped and buggered by corrupt dictatorships.

As if the American can teach anyone about democracy.

There is a global shift taking place my dear chap and its moving to the east.

Yes you most certainly do have a comprehension problem. Oh by the way, the profiling that I do on the people in Thai politics, I already knew you would be the first of possibly two to attack my post, and what you posted was nearly exactly what I expected.

[Prakanong]

Blaze, it is one thing to know and decide, and very much another to not know. At least soundman's suggestion has merit and the more I think about it, being taught by Americans or anyone else from a democratic country is probably the best choice. That way in the future no Thai party can claim bias particularly if the Americans create their own syllabus.

This gets better - you are advocating the Americans turn up in Thailand and educate the Thai's about democracy.

A tad arrogant is it not - do you not think you had better finish the jobs you have already started elsewhere before you take on too much - overstretch is creeping in and you need to take care of a lot more first.

I really can not beleive some of the posters on this thread - they want to end democracy in Thailand and have dictatorships or they think Americans should teach the Thai's about democracy.

Do you know the history of Thailand during the Vietnam war etc? - you were not exactly advocating democracy in the country then when it was being raped and buggered by corrupt dictatorships.

As if the American can teach anyone about democracy.

There is a global shift taking place my dear chap and its moving to the east.

Yes you most certainly do have a comprehension problem. Oh by the way, the profiling that I do on the people in Thai politics, I already knew you would be the first of possibly two to attack my post, and what you posted was nearly exactly what I expected.

ROFL - you needed to do profiling for that?

It gets better.

You have excelled yourself today - what with the Big Dogs rumour mill of building ownership, then onto Americans to teach Thai's democracy and now with your psychobabble profiling from an unqualified amateur - brilliant.

One thing though its probably best not to attack your posts as you might get defensive and stop giving us all a laugh - that would be a shame.

[aaaaaa]

....

Maybe this is what Thailand needs - a one party state that directs economic growth and wealth creation in exchange for a social contract limiting freedom ...

may be.

may be not only Thailand !

some for example express the opinion that instead of ALL

and any of potential candidates for US president better if it would be ....

Putin for president ... of the United States

By Spengler

Jan 8, 2008

America needs leadership, and none of available candidates can provide it ...

Putin restored Russia's economy and global stature ...

Putin understands how to exercise power ...

That is the sort of strategic thinking America needs.

Times magazine recently named him a "man of the year" (2007)

all this - despite the huge criticism and real facts that his party has become almost literally the only party ...

so, if US have no good enough leader - what to speak of Thailand ?

anyway, even in US the so called parties - they are not much different anymore. more so in Thailand!

all these parties (pretty much everywhere) and their squabble for better share of pie - it is simply a joke, comparing to the real gains got by those who actually pull the strings - big bankers, magnates etc.

Edited January 10, 2008 by aaaaaa