Dealer Refuse To Give A Vat Bill

[amal2029]

Good Morning every one,

It’s been 22 days that I bought my CBR150R but I am unable to complete the documentation due to lack of support from the dealer. The most annoying thing is that the dealer refuse to give me VAT bill which I am entitle to have.

The original deal was CBR150R + free Insurance, free license plate, free helmet and a free jacket + VAT Bill, for 63,500 Baht.

I paid 63,500 in cash and received the bike on 10th Jan 2008 with a temporary invoice (without VAT but with full amount) just to prove my ownership in case authorities (Police) request. At this point I said I could not accept a temporary receipt and I need real VAT bill with my full name and address on it. The dealer promised to give one within 1 week and complete the warranty card details at the same time.

Yesterday I got the VAT bill (after 21 days!) and the warranty card. Guess what!! The VAT bill is coming form another dealer and the amount stated is 61,000 Baht! 2,500 Baht less than I paid. More ever they fill the warranty card with their name. Now I got a vat bill from dealer B and the warranty from dealer A.

I address the issue with the owner via my Thai colleague but she refuse to give me vat bill for total 63,500 baht. Instead she offered to give another receipt for the balance 2,500 Baht as a service charge.

So, the bike was really 61,000 Baht and the dealer charged me for 2,500 for the insurance and registration. The insurance is a 3rd party and it cost them only 415 Baht. The balance is for registration? After 22 days I still don’t have the registration. They asked for another 1 week. If I knew that the service charge is 2,500B I would never go for this deal and these people cleverly hide it from me until the last moment. I badly feel that I was cheated.

Has any one faced similar situation and how did you people cope with it? Am I still getting my warranty irrespectively the original invoice and the warranty card hold 2 different dealer names? I only want the dealer A to give me the VAT bill stating full amount (63,500B) without making and issue.

Is there any government agency (other than the Police) that I can ask for help?

As evidence I got below documents:

1.temporary receipt from dealer A with total 63,500B amount and my name and address on it (they should have collect it but I didn’t return it)

2.VAT bill from dealer B for 61,000B which dealer A gave to me as the original receipt with my name and address on it

3.warranty card with dealer A name on it as the seller

Regards,

Amal

[submaniac]

Hi Amal,

Unfortunately I cannot give you advice on how to fix the problem. The only recourse I know of is to complain to the police, but I think we know how that will lead. However, on the subject of "misery loves company" I can tell you that I have too gotten burned by my dealer. I was charged an extra 1k baht for 'everything'. Which was supposed to include the dealer transferring the title to me, taxes, and insurance. Well, once paid, the dealer didn't transfer title to me (which they are required to do by law) and I had to deal with it, bike wouldn't pass inspection so I had to fix it, taxes were overdue by a month--which I also paid. I did get insurance, but I don't think it was worth 1k baht. Honestly the only way I think to handle dealers here is not to pay up until they have EVERYTHING ready. With my worthless dealer, I called up, said everything was ready and I could pick up tomorrow. I had several of those phone calls. Had I to do it all over, what I would have done is shown him the money and said "you don't get this until I see that ALL the paperwork is good to go." Seriously, if they have already got your money, there is no motivation for them to act.

[mikethevigoman]

Good Morning every one,

It's been 22 days that I bought my CBR150R but I am unable to complete the documentation due to lack of support from the dealer. The most annoying thing is that the dealer refuse to give me VAT bill which I am entitle to have.

The original deal was CBR150R + free Insurance, free license plate, free helmet and a free jacket + VAT Bill, for 63,500 Baht.

I paid 63,500 in cash and received the bike on 10th Jan 2008 with a temporary invoice (without VAT but with full amount) just to prove my ownership in case authorities (Police) request. At this point I said I could not accept a temporary receipt and I need real VAT bill with my full name and address on it. The dealer promised to give one within 1 week and complete the warranty card details at the same time.

Yesterday I got the VAT bill (after 21 days!) and the warranty card. Guess what!! The VAT bill is coming form another dealer and the amount stated is 61,000 Baht! 2,500 Baht less than I paid. More ever they fill the warranty card with their name. Now I got a vat bill from dealer B and the warranty from dealer A.

I address the issue with the owner via my Thai colleague but she refuse to give me vat bill for total 63,500 baht. Instead she offered to give another receipt for the balance 2,500 Baht as a service charge.

So, the bike was really 61,000 Baht and the dealer charged me for 2,500 for the insurance and registration. The insurance is a 3rd party and it cost them only 415 Baht. The balance is for registration? After 22 days I still don't have the registration. They asked for another 1 week. If I knew that the service charge is 2,500B I would never go for this deal and these people cleverly hide it from me until the last moment. I badly feel that I was cheated.

Has any one faced similar situation and how did you people cope with it? Am I still getting my warranty irrespectively the original invoice and the warranty card hold 2 different dealer names? I only want the dealer A to give me the VAT bill stating full amount (63,500B) without making and issue.

Is there any government agency (other than the Police) that I can ask for help?

As evidence I got below documents:

1.temporary receipt from dealer A with total 63,500B amount and my name and address on it (they should have collect it but I didn't return it)

2.VAT bill from dealer B for 61,000B which dealer A gave to me as the original receipt with my name and address on it

3.warranty card with dealer A name on it as the seller

Regards,

Amal

Is there any thai business that dosent rip you off ? it seems from the bar staff to the francised motor dealers they are all at it, is there a school they go to to learn it or something !

[amal2029]

I am not so negative about all Thai business. because when I bought my first bike, I paid the whole amount in cash and got the original invoices for the amount that I paid and every thing that they promise in time. I went to my old shop for the CBR but they quote me a bit of higher price that time. Now I am regretting for not taking it and go for a cheap shop for a cheap job!

A colleague gave the address of "Office of Consumer Protection Board". Any one thinks that I should give a try with them on Monday? I guess that they r close today

[PeaceBlondie]

Amal, sorry to hear you are having troubles. I did not, and I paid about the same 63K you did, five years ago, at almost 42 baht to the dollar! Dealer took about a month to get me everything. I know nothing about the importance of the VAT receipt(s). Surely the add-ons could be expressed separately; why does it matter, though? I agree the issuance of warranty, VAT receipt, etc., by different dealers is confusing.

Would it be off topic to ask if you like the bike?

[Richard-BKK]

It is not uncommon that a motorcycle dealer buys a bike from a larger dealer and sells it on to the end user. The price of 61,000 Baht is a unbelievable low price, and you need to see this more as a whole sell price. For refusing the give you a VAT bill for the complete payment I belief that that cannot give you a VAT bill as they are not a registered company.

Still you paid 63,500 Baht, which is still a good price for the CBR-150R and you got all your papers, therefore I seem the missing the problem other then it is maybe a bit confusing......

[amal2029]

to PeaceBlond and Richard_BKK,

thanks for your inputs. Yes, I love this bike very much and can't find any major issue to complain. This one is from year 2007 model with anti-thief key lock. dam_n good bike and proud to have one.

I am sorry, these people are registered for VAT. My Thai colleague just check it with the revenue department and got their VAT number too. So, it's purely cheating. Had she bought the bike from another dealer but she still can issue a proper invoice (vat bill) from her. A Thai friend of mine whom is an accountant confirm this.

I can't say all papers are on order until I get an invoice for the total amount that I paid. Hope you gentlemen will agree with me. We never discussed anything about additional chargers or service chargers during the process. It all came into lite after 21 days I paid the cash and saw the real invoice.

By the way, why the dam_n head lights can't turn off?

[dave_boo]

They're not supposed to. They're day time running lamps. Common safety feature. I say blame Canada.

[madjbs]

It is normal not to recieve the green book for a month or two, I still dont understand what the problem is.

[Richard-BKK]

Sorry, I also not see the problem, got the bike for good price, you have all the needed papers. It seems hat you only have a problem with somebody making 2500 Bht on selling you the bike, you in luck, I know enough dealers who for 2500 Bht not even wakeup.

Say the place where you buy your bike does 15,000 Bht in rent, electric 2000 Bht, etc 2000 Bht, two people work there then you can calculate how many bikes they need to sell to keep things running....

[madjbs]

It's possible the dealer fiddled the bills trying to avoid paying some tax, I don’t think they scammed you though because you still got the normal price.

[mikethevigoman]

They're not supposed to. They're day time running lamps. Common safety feature. I say blame Canada.

Sweden actually, volvo and saab have had them for years ,.

[dave_boo]

They're not supposed to. They're day time running lamps. Common safety feature. I say blame Canada.

Sweden actually, volvo and saab have had them for years ,.

It was tongue in cheek. Americans from the North would understand. I actually find it a good idea, as small as a motorcycle can appear to other people that are on the road and the speed at which they can close a gap makes them necessary IMHO.

[JimsKnight]

They're not supposed to. They're day time running lamps. Common safety feature. I say blame Canada.

Sweden actually, volvo and saab have had them for years ,.

It was tongue in cheek. Americans from the North would understand. I actually find it a good idea, as small as a motorcycle can appear to other people that are on the road and the speed at which they can close a gap makes them necessary IMHO.

If you head off to Cambodia on it make sure you get the light isolated with a switch.

The police don't like headlights running during the day there (due to their top brass 'only' having that privilige)

[kash]

huh, 60,430THB is the wholesale price the dealers pay for the bike + transportation to wherever in Thailand. the difference between 61k and 63,5k is the profit of the shop, including their cost for the freebies they gave you, do you really think anyone would sell you a bike for cost? as for having a VAT invoice, why bother? you cant claim it back at the airport anyway, and I would be curious to know which company setup you have if you consider claiming it back in that way.

the going rate is 65-66k now, so 63,5 is a nice price - be happy. the registration takes 2 months exactly.

[Richard-BKK]

I have the idea that you better give us the address of this 'cheating' dealer, because their are maybe more members on this board who like to be 'cheated' by this dealer. If I was looking for a CBR-150R and the dealer was around Bangkok I would surely do business with them.

63,500 Baht for Honda CBR-150R including one year free Insurance, free license plate, free helmet and a free jacket.

[PeaceBlondie]

The fact that it is supposedly a 2007 model year (and this was maybe bought in early 2008) is immaterial. Also, I doubt this dealer will offer the same price to all, especially for the trouble it is costing the dealer(s).

[amal2029]

Gentalmen,

I am not crying that I lost 2,500. My only complaint is that I am not getting a proper invoice from the dealer that I bought the bike. I have no intention to claim the vat and that doesn't give them any rights to refuse me the proper invoice.

For those of u say the lead time for registration 1 month or 2 month, I am sorry my first bike that I bought from the same area took me only 5 days including registration plate and owners book. If do it by ur own it will take only 1 day. Please check with your Thai colleagues. Once u fill the proper forms and submit them they will verify them against ur supporting documents (ID, original invoice etc) and they will check the engine number and frame number. This is the drawback if u do it alone. U have to take ur bike with u. If the shop do it they will ask an agent to do it and the bugger will collect hundreds of applications and go one time. No need to present the bike. Thats why it takes so long. U can check this story with a friendly shop owner too. I had personally registered 3 bikes at my home country and it took me only 1/2 day provided I went early Moring to be 1st in the line. Thailand is much bigger and advance than my small country. It would take only 1-2 hour to register a business in Thailand (for Thai own) and I certainly don't think a bike will cost weeks or months!

Since I have an issue with them. I am sorry I can't put the subject dealer's contact details on the net. However, I can give some hints for you to find the place. Hope that it will not violate the TV rules. Once ur coming along the Srinakarin road towards Theparak junction, pass Food land and pass golf drive u can see this shop on the left side of the road. They r not a HONDA dealer. I am going to talk to some authorities on Monday and may be after that I can give exact details.

the going price of the CBR150 is not high as you people says. In this area its only 63,000 - 64,000 max. I am not sure whether Admins will burn me if I put a place where u can check this. Or can PM me and I will scan and send the address. I spoke to the owner personally and they r about 6km from my place. Nice people. His name card is in Thai and I can't read it

[Richard-BKK]

Sorry people I just want to pull this story to the land of 1001 tails, as w only have one person to verify his claim, and his claim seem not damaging in any way.

I personal have the feeling it is never happened. I personal know the wholesale price of a CBR-150R and as others said with all the free it is almost impossible to make provide.

Amal can you give us the first 8 numbers and he last 3 numbers of your serial number?

[kash]

well since you said free license plate I assumed you got the 500baht one for free (choose your own lucky no), this takes two months exactly. and I sincerely doubt that it takes less than a month for regular license plate to be approved, a reason why you see so many bikes without license plate in the city (at least in cm).

Edited February 3, 2008 by kash

[amal2029]

Sorry people I just want to pull this story to the land of 1001 tails, as w only have one person to verify his claim, and his claim seem not damaging in any way.

I personal have the feeling it is never happened. I personal know the wholesale price of a CBR-150R and as others said with all the free it is almost impossible to make provide.

Amal can you give us the first 8 numbers and he last 3 numbers of your serial number?

Okay, I can give you all the numbers. Hope it won't bring any harm to me. It is NCB1500048163. The owner called us on Sunday and offered to give her own vat bill for 62,000B, 1000B more than before. I told her if she can't give the invoice for the total amount, I may have to return the bike and ask my money back. I am expecting assistance from our company Accountant. I guess she can explain the law to this lady. I learned that the bike is still not registered and she can't make up her mind to give me invoice or not! She said she can register it within a week provided I pay extra 100B....I can't understand what you people talk about 1 month. By the way, would u like to see a photo of my bike?.

[amal2029]

I spoke with A.P. HONDA Service Center and informed my story. First they said if the warranty card name and the invoice names r not from the same dealer, I may have a problem in the future. So, they offer me to call both shops and try to persuade the original dealer to issue me a invoice with full amount. After a while A.P. HONDA said that the first dealer is not a HONDA agent. So, they can't force them to do anything and advice me to go for the 62K invoice and speed up the registration. Considering all the troubles that I am get now, I agreed for 62K and confirm to A.P. HONDA. They will relay this to the shop. In the evening I will get my new invoice (62K) and I had to return the existing invoice with 61K.

I shall take their advise and proceed with registration. Once I get my registration and confirm with the department I may think of a way to teach her lesson. Again, those of you who says registration takes days or months, AP HONDA said all those delays are the fault of dealers. If one can submit all the necessary documents in time it will not take more than 2 days, maximum...I do not wish to argue about it anymore since I didn't speak to anyone from the department yet. Hope someone shall do it and educate all of us.

[PeaceBlondie]

You did not even buy it from a HONDA DEALER!! Did you buy it from a Ferrari dealer or a Hoover dealer?

[amal2029]

You did not even buy it from a HONDA DEALER!! Did you buy it from a Ferrari dealer or a Hoover dealer?

Ur so negative on me. No they r not official HONDA dealer. They sell all kind of bikes. I don't know what r they. The only thing I know is that they offered 12K for my ex LS125R when all the other so call HONDA dealers offered 9K!

Who will be nuts to look for a HONDA bike from Car dealer..??

[madjbs]

Why do you need a VAT receipt? Is there actually any reason you are causing all these problems for yourself?

[PeaceBlondie]

Sorry for being so harsh, amal. I think almost all of us who have commented so far do not understand first of all why you need a precisely accurate VAT receipt. I was surprised to learn that you bought a new sportbike from a non-factory dealer. You don't buy a new Porsche from a Ford dealer.

[dave_boo]

Sorry for being so harsh, amal. I think almost all of us who have commented so far do not understand first of all why you need a precisely accurate VAT receipt. I was surprised to learn that you bought a new sportbike from a non-factory dealer. You don't buy a new Porsche from a Ford dealer.

I don't think you were being harsh....but than again sometimes I've been told I show latent Asperger's syndrome!

It's awful strange that he would buy from a non-Honda dealership, then try and raise hel_l about the VAT receipt. I can only assume he was doing it for warranty reasons, however, I don't know if even having obtained the desired receipt he'd be able to have major work done at a real deal Honda shop. And as he's already said, Honda can't force an non-Honda shop to do anything.

If it was me, once I figured out that it was a non-Honda shop, I'd probably returned it and bought a bike from an authorised dealer (my wallet is wincing about passing up the savings however!). Should anything go wrong, the little bit extra for less hassle seems to be of more benefit than saving that ~3k Baht.

**edit**

grammar

Edited February 4, 2008 by dave_boo