sriracha john Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 (edited) When I was working for government, we used to have huge crowds set up camp around the MOF and in the ministry compound. Literally living there, doing their cooking, sleeping. Surrounded by banners protesting whatever they were protesting. There would be the weekly 'gee-up' rally (probably when they got their pay), and then they would all go back to hanging around again. The longest protest by a couple of hundered rice farmers went on for many months. It was an example of protest and democracy at work (albeit rent-a-crowd democracy). It was a not to subtle way to reminded the minister and senior civil servants who drove in each morning. You mean the police didn't come in and use fire hoses and tear gas on them? They allowed them to protest peacefully and didn't threaten them with physical violence as they are now? Edited June 20, 2008 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 dang gum Enter button... Thanks for posting this eleven times.It did through repetition make me wonder whether any government in the world would allow a mob to take over or threaten to take over say the Kremlin, the White House, No 10 etc.By now the Chinese for example would have disbursed the whole caboodle and would not have been gentle about it.My own view is that the PAD has every right to demonstrate peacefully and it can actually make a real contribution to civil society in Thailand.The problem is its disreputable leadership (particularly the awful old fool Chamlong) and ridiculously over the top demands.I understand that most educated and upper middle class supporters have tired of PAD's stand though still sympathetic to its original objectives.Let's hope calm and common sense prevails but there always problems when an unruly mob comes up against a police force untrained in crowd control. Hope so too. When I was working for government, we used to have huge crowds set up camp around the MOF and in the ministry compound. Literally living there, doing their cooking, sleeping. Surrounded by banners protesting whatever they were protesting. There would be the weekly 'gee-up' rally (probably when they got their pay), and then they would all go back to hanging around again. The longest protest by a couple of hundered rice farmers went on for many months. It was an example of protest and democracy at work (albeit rent-a-crowd democracy). It was a not to subtle way to reminded the minister and senior civil servants who drove in each morning. Austria had demonstrations for years every Thursday at the Parliament with the only target to oust the government. No problem at all with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
younghusband Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 It did through repetition make me wonder whether any government in the world would allow a mob to take over or threaten to take over say the Kremlin, the White House, No 10 etc.Did they say they are going to "take over"? There are protests at the White House on a daily basis. Let's hope calm and common sense prevails but there always problems when an unruly mob comes up against a police force untrained in crowd control. I agree. The DAAD mob is certainly unruly historically. Let's hope the ill-trained police can deal with them effectively. I agree.Same considerations apply to the DAAD mob.I thought PAD had said they were going to take over Government House, but perhaps just the wilder elements. One aspect which is hardly ever discussed on TV is the hijacking of reasonable protest movements by crazies.As I though I made clear peaceful demonstrations as in the West are not only permitted but welcome.Having said that and this should not be taken as condoning violence one shouldn't be too Pollyanish about this.UK members will remember the poll tax protests which were anything but peaceful.Going back a bit US members will remember Kent State.The French will remember 1968 in which student heads were banged together violently -Isaw it! I suppose there is a sense in which protestors with real grievances sometimes have to go out on the streets and be prepared if necessary to lay down their lives, eg people power in the Philippines and here in Thailand in the 1970's and 1992.Gandhi pioneered non violent resistance and shamed the British into withdrawal.Lucky he wasn't dealing with the Germans of that period or the Chinese of this.My point is that we go on- quite rightly- about peaceful protests but looking at history the successful ones are often quite violent.Nevertheless I don't sense an appetite for bloodshed on either side here and now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 When I was working for government, we used to have huge crowds set up camp around the MOF and in the ministry compound. Literally living there, doing their cooking, sleeping. Surrounded by banners protesting whatever they were protesting. There would be the weekly 'gee-up' rally (probably when they got their pay), and then they would all go back to hanging around again. The longest protest by a couple of hundered rice farmers went on for many months. It was an example of protest and democracy at work (albeit rent-a-crowd democracy). It was a not to subtle way to reminded the minister and senior civil servants who drove in each morning. You mean the police didn't come in and use fire hoses and tear gas on them? They allowed them to protest peacefully and didn't threaten them with physical violence as they are now? Not at all. Which is why I get annoyed when people have a go at the PAD for doing the same thing. This stuff happens all the time here in Thailand. Life goes on, people get their point across. And the protests I witnessed weren't micky mouse ones either. They were anti-privatisations protests, protests to save state enterprise pension schemes etc etc, all which if went to their logical conclusion could have seen the shut down of a bunch of key state enterprises in Thailand. Yet the people who have a go at PAD for protesting are remarkably quiet about the role of the Anti-dictatorship rent-a-thugs that are going to agitate there today, nor do they make any mention of the patronage system Thaksin wanted to set up to replace the existing one. I could go on, and probably will, but I have to go off and earn my salary now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Chamlong gave strict orders NOT to enter the government house even if the doors are wide open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 (edited) My girlfriend just got an SMS about the King stepping in and saying something prior to tomorrows (Friday's) PAD protests - she was unclear on the details. Just checked The Nation and Bangkok Post websites but they haven't been updated. Anyone see something on a Thai news channel? (And understood it?) His Majesty had some words with Samak... Thailand braces for anti-government protests BANGKOK, Thailand -- Anti-government protesters in Thailand geared up Friday for what they said would be a massive demonstration to call on Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej to step down. The protesters, spearheaded by the People's Alliance for Democracy, claim the Samak's government is a proxy for former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, ousted by a 2006 military coup. The alliance led mass demonstrations before the coup demanding Thaksin step down for alleged corruption and abuse of power. They now accuse Samak's government of interfering with corruption charges against the former prime minister and trying to change the constitution for its own self-interest. The demonstrators have been in Bangkok's streets for the past three weeks. But a Thursday meeting between Thailand's revered King Bhumibol Adulyadej and Samak, televised on the evening news, could undercut their plans. The King urged Samak to keep his promises to do good for the nation. "I expect that you will do what you have promised and when you can do that, you will be satisfied," the King said. "With that satisfaction, the country will survive. I ask you to do good in everything, both in government work and other work, so that our country can carry on and people will be pleased." The demonstrators have pledged to ring Government House * "not "take over" *, where the prime minister's offices are located, until Samak's administration resigns. Police said they would not be allowed to march there from their current rally site nearby. Suriyasai Katasila, one protest leader, said, "People are coming from everywhere." "They want to show their solidarity with us and they want to express their discontent with the government who has been serving no one but themselves." - Associated Press (just now) Edited June 20, 2008 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Chamlong gave strict orders NOT to enter the government house even if the doors are wide open. no, the mad monk is not stupid sometimes. still, he managed (like most people) to be seduced by Thaksin back in the Phalang Dharma days. I wonder how Thai history would have turned out if that didn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Thai police seal off government HQ, brace for march Thousands of Thai police backed by water cannon and tear gas sealed off the prime minister's office to repel protesters whose four-week drive to oust the government has stoked fears of another coup. Police say they are ready if need be to use force against the marchers, most of whom are middle-class Bangkok residents who view the government elected in December as an illegitimate Thaksin proxy. At least eight barricades of crash barriers and prison trucks, manned by police drafted in from all over the country, prevented all access to the government compound, which sits in the heart of Bangkok's leafy "Old Quarter". The stock market has fallen more than 13 percent since it started its campaign on May 25, with investors worried about political tension at a time of stuttering economic growth and soaring inflation. Army chief Anupong Paochinda, a member of the military council that ousted Thaksin, insisted the army would not get involved, perhaps mindful of unrest in 1992, when soldiers opened fire on pro-democracy demonstrators, killing dozens. - Reuters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonrakers Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I wish that Uranus would hurry up and fall into alignment with Mars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Chamlong gave strict orders NOT to enter the government house even if the doors are wide open. no, the mad monk is not stupid sometimes. still, he managed (like most people) to be seduced by Thaksin back in the Phalang Dharma days. I wonder how Thai history would have turned out if that didn't happen. look at the PAD brain-power. Chamlong is one of the best educated Army guys with years of training in USA and with his very strange beliefs (monks should work and not waste resources) he is pretty cool on everything as he don't care if he dies or not. Sondhi knows all media tricks Than you have a couple of trained communists, Soviet, China and East German trained. So every theoretic knowledge of making riots or dissolve them is there. Not an easy enemy for dino-brain samak and the "give me 10 % and I don't see you" Thai police. Chamlongs past with Thaksin is not that nice....but he never sticked to the chair when things went wrong. Thailand should have more such mad monks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I wish that Uranus would hurry up and fall into alignment with Mars. that would be the solution for all the problems! URANUS GO!!! URANUS GO!!! URANUS GO!!! URANUS GO!!! Maybe Thaksin didn't not ride enough elephants and did not pray in enough temple for good luck...... do you remember before the coup: Thaksin told his enemies try to bring him to fall with black magic but they can't as he ride an elephant and he got the most powerful talisman from Cambodia (the hub of talisman) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Chamlong gave strict orders NOT to enter the government house even if the doors are wide open. no, the mad monk is not stupid sometimes. still, he managed (like most people) to be seduced by Thaksin back in the Phalang Dharma days. I wonder how Thai history would have turned out if that didn't happen. Thaksin would have parked elsewhere. Actually it's an interesting reminder for people who accuse Chamlong of being ultra right fascist nationalist fighting against globalisation, while, in fact, he was one of the first politicians to embrace truly modern vision for the country (offered by Thaksin at that time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Triceratops advises T. Rex.... Chavalit suggests PM to resign to end rifts Former premier Chavalit Yongchaiyudh suggested three options for the government to end political confrontation, and one of them is for PM Samak Sundaravej to resign. Gen Chavalit, speaking at a seminar in Khon Kaen, said the other options are for Samak to dissolve the parliament to allow a new election, or for the national government to be set up. He also said that the rallies of People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) are done following the democratic process, and that they could lead to make-or-break situation. Without a talk between the government and the PAD, military coup would be the only way to end ongoing Continued here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=128366 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madi Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 With the economy falling, now is not the best time for a political train wreck. No doubt the two are connected though. (Economy and political wreck) Who would have thought that oil prices would have helped to cause some chaos. How weak could the baht get? It is tumbling. Will Thailand again be one of the nations that has an economic crash that for-shadows the crash in the world? If I only knew. Bahy 45 to the dollar would have seemed impossible a month ago. Now it is something that enters the thought process. I know if you work here and earn baht--the last thing you want to see is a falling baht. Of course, if you export out of Thailand, you would like to see a weaker baht. I just flow with the river. I try to stay in front of the wreck flowing from behind. Stay safe. Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Police seal off Government House Thousands of police sealed off the Government House on Friday to prevent the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protesters from positioning in and around the area. In the morning, National Police chief Patcharawat Wongsuwan chaired a meeting with police officers and related agencies to step up measures to handle the protesters who planned to converge on the area at approximately 1pm. Checkpoints have been set up to prevent protesters from outside Bangkok from joining the anti-government rally. Government officials were told not to report to work today while schools in the area were http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=128365 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Chamlong gave strict orders NOT to enter the government house even if the doors are wide open. no, the mad monk is not stupid sometimes. still, he managed (like most people) to be seduced by Thaksin back in the Phalang Dharma days. I wonder how Thai history would have turned out if that didn't happen. Thaksin would have parked elsewhere. Actually it's an interesting reminder for people who accuse Chamlong of being ultra right fascist nationalist fighting against globalisation, while, in fact, he was one of the first politicians to embrace truly modern vision for the country (offered by Thaksin at that time). Also remind that two of the other leaders are ultra left if not communists and most of the people there are middle class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 (edited) 500 PAD protesters from 11 southern provinces confront police About 500 protesters led by the People's Alliance for Democracy confront the police line at Nakhon Sawan Road, demanding police to allow them to pass through to Government House. About 100 policemen armed with shields formed a line behind road a road barricade and about 10 six-wheel trucks. The confrontation was going on since 9 am. - The Nation ============================================================ 300 riot police in Chachoengsao on standby Changchoengsao police chief Pol Maj Gen Surapong Kaytawan Friday ordered 300 anti-riot policemen to be on standby for moving to Bangkok. The policemen were ordered to be on full alert and ready to move to Bangkok once reinforcements are required. - The Nation Edited June 20, 2008 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 500 PAD protesters from 11 southern provinces confront police About 500 protesters led by the People's Alliance for Democracy confront the police line at Nakhon Sawan Road, demanding police to allow them to pass through to Government House. About 100 policemen armed with shields formed a line behind road a road barricade and about 10 six-wheel trucks. The confrontation was going on since 9 am. - The Nation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Chamlong Denies PAD Proterters are Armed This morning PAD leader Chamlong Srimuang went on stage to denounce a claim made by Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung that the PAD has access to a large cache of weapons. Chamlong claims if any of the protesters are armed, they are not a PAD, but could be a member of the pro-government Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship (DAAD). - Thailand Outlook =========================================================================== Police Continue to Disrupt PAD Rally with Loud Music Police continue to attempt to interrupt stage activites at the PAD Makawan rally by playing loud music over the speeches of the speakers. Usually the tactic is used when the 5 key PAD leaders take the stage, but as the PAD prepares to move to Government House the frequency of the interruption has increased considerably. - Thailand Outlook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 (edited) Almost 2,000 police officers deployed to tackle PAD’s move to Government House today Commander of the Metropolitan Police Bureau, Pol.Lt.Gen.Atsawin Kwanmuang, says police provide maximum security at the Government House and will not use force to disperse protestors from the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) who have announced to move there today. The commander requests PAD to fight with the government under the parliamentary system but not on the street since the country has enough problems. He says it is the responsibility of PAD leaders to disperse the rally themselves if violence takes place. Police have dispatched 1,800 officers to nine roadblocks set up around the Government House, the commander says. As for security at the Government House, police officers from various units have been deployed there. They are not allowed to carry heavy weapons and only have shields and nightsticks with them. Five fire trucks of the Office of Disaster Prevention and Mitigation under the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration and 60 trucks for the transport of arrested people have been prepared to deal with the protestors if violence occurs. One of PAD leaders Chamlong Srimuang calls on the protestors to relocate to the Government House peacefully and expresses his confidence that PAD’s mission to surround the place will accomplish within these 1-2 days. - ThaiNews Edited June 20, 2008 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaigene2 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 The PAD movement = The Priviledged Against Democracy. If a democractically elected Government were to resign because a minority of people are allowed (by their priviledged army friends) to roam the streets at will, lay seige to the parliament, etc, every time a government is elected that they don't like or threatens the middle-classes' patronage system - what would you call that? The word 'anarchy' comes to my mind. And don't give me that nonesense about how everyone who voted for PPP was 'bought out' in cash. You know that's BS. The military, PAD and Democrat Party know it's BS too. Don't forget - who was it that refused to allow international election monitors during the last election? The Pro-PAD Military installed government, that's who. And why? Because they knew the observers would report that more or less it was a fair vote. To force these guys from office by mayhem on the streets - or worse by the army and their elite backers again (as incompetent and as agenda-driven they are by TRT forces behind the scenes) it is wrong and sends a clear message to the rest of the world, that Thailand doesn't recognize the right of governance brought about by one-person-one-vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 The PAD movement = The Priviledged Against Democracy. If a democractically elected Government were to resign because a minority of people are allowed (by their priviledged army friends) to roam the streets at will, lay seige to the parliament, etc, every time a government is elected that they don't like or threatens the middle-classes' patronage system - what would you call that? The word 'anarchy' comes to my mind. And don't give me that nonesense about how everyone who voted for PPP was 'bought out' in cash. You know that's BS. The military, PAD and Democrat Party know it's BS too. Don't forget - who was it that refused to allow international election monitors during the last election? The Pro-PAD Military installed government, that's who. And why? Because they knew the observers would report that more or less it was a fair vote. To force these guys from office by mayhem on the streets - or worse by the army and their elite backers again (as incompetent and as agenda-driven they are by TRT forces behind the scenes) it is wrong and sends a clear message to the rest of the world, that Thailand doesn't recognize the right of governance brought about by one-person-one-vote. Again you get a A+ in your from your argue-teacher for trying to make out of the fact that there was massive vote-buying and fraud that "everyone who voted for PPP was 'bought out'". Thats simply ridiculous..... The "middle-classes' patronage system" is also funny. Is the middle class your new enemy? Your postings were always a bit weired but now it gets very ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaigene2 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 When I was working for government, we used to have huge crowds set up camp around the MOF and in the ministry compound. Literally living there, doing their cooking, sleeping. Surrounded by banners protesting whatever they were protesting. There would be the weekly 'gee-up' rally (probably when they got their pay), and then they would all go back to hanging around again. The longest protest by a couple of hundered rice farmers went on for many months. It was an example of protest and democracy at work (albeit rent-a-crowd democracy). It was a not to subtle way to reminded the minister and senior civil servants who drove in each morning. Shame the PAD can't learn from those poor but simple 'farmers' and their peaceful demos - of course we know the reason is that the PAD don't want to protest they want their big brothers in the army to reset the clock of thailand's mentally-challenged view of democracy yet again - reset to the days of pooyai and poolek where everyone knows their place and where the poor should be grateful "they" let them vote at all.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 This topic continues here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=195690 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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