Why Don't Teenagers Like To Sleep At Night?

[greenmember]

When I was young, I was annoyed when my aunt woke me up at 6am. She said I woke up late! These old women were familiar with getting up by 4am for farm work. I lived in the city.

25 years have passed and now, as I consider getting up around 8am is normal, although I'm up by 7, our children still sleep until 2pm or 4pm. They're up by 5 or 6 to go to school, so when they return home, we let them sleep as much as they want. They stay until 2am to download music, to chat with friends and to play games. The other night our daughter talked with a friend via mobile phone until 5:30am. When she completely went to bed for a "night sleep" and turned off all lights, all sounds, it was after 6 in the morning!!! She was using European time zone in Thailand.

We're trying to tell them that teenagers won't maximize their height if they don't have a good night sleep before midnight. But seems that some teenagers feel it's a waste to sleep by 11pm and wake up by 8am.

What about your children?

[mikethevigoman]

When I was young, I was annoyed when my aunt woke me up at 6am. She said I woke up late! These old women were familiar with getting up by 4am for farm work. I lived in the city.

25 years have passed and now, as I consider getting up around 8am is normal, although I'm up by 7, our children still sleep until 2pm or 4pm. They're up by 5 or 6 to go to school, so when they return home, we let them sleep as much as they want. They stay until 2am to download music, to chat with friends and to play games. The other night our daughter talked with a friend via mobile phone until 5:30am. When she completely went to bed for a "night sleep" and turned off all lights, all sounds, it was after 6 in the morning!!! She was using European time zone in Thailand.

We're trying to tell them that teenagers won't maximize their height if they don't have a good night sleep before midnight. But seems that some teenagers feel it's a waste to sleep by 11pm and wake up by 8am.

What about your children?

Frightened they are going to miss someting, .but they arent, because they know it all already !

[greenmember]

What is "it"?

[bina]

all teenagers are nocturnal animals; when they hit 40+ they become diurnal again... they are also like fruit bats in that they subsist on a high sugar liquid diet, and like to do the opposite of us....

i always thought that it would be best to be a teenage mother so that when baby was up all night, i had energy for dealing with it... instead of being dead tired out from it...

i was always a night creature, only when i hit about 40+ did it reverse and ive become diurnal athough that may be because of thai husband, his idea of late night is going to sleep at nine (on fri/sat when he is at home and not at work), and sleeping late is getting up at 7:00... in winter, night can start for him at 19:00!! and my teenagers drive him nuts with their sleeping after noon and comeing in at 2 or 3 a.m. thurs/fridays (our weekends are friday saturdays)...

[torrenova]

I've always been a night owl for as long as I can remember, certainly back to my earliest teenage days and probably before. However, in those days there was no all night TV on any channel and without the electronic toys of latter years, there really wasn't that much to do to occupy yourself if you were alone. I suspect that has a lot to do with sleep patterns nowadays.

[bina]

I've always been a night owl for as long as I can remember, certainly back to my earliest teenage days and probably before. However, in those days there was no all night TV on any channel and without the electronic toys of latter years, there really wasn't that much to do to occupy yourself if you were alone. I suspect that has a lot to do with sleep patterns nowadays.

terranove,

we didnt have tv when i was young (well, we did but it was in a back room and we had no access at night anyway; we had books, and a corded telephone, and records, and hobbies, so dont blame technology. my father ! remembers as a teen in brooklyn spending time on the roof of the tenaments with doves, and star watching (causing him to develop an interest later in quantum physics...)...

i embroidered, wrote songs, whatever.

teenagers just dont sleep the same as us... my kids dont spend time on tv or computer at night, they read (something they developed on their own btw, i never even read books to them for the most part), or listen to music or chat on their phones, or whatever.... hang out and talk... the youngest walks with two other girls and hang out near the house chatting away...

most kids i know on the kibbutz arent 'gamers' on computers, and they dont watch tv unless there is something interesting on... but they are up all hours cause we hear them (they live in a dormitory from age 17), they hang out, visit, play basketball !! in summer at midnite (its cool then)... or listening to music and hanging out talking ... the younger teens are at home but still go to sleep late on weekends... electronic stuff has nothing to do with it... it seems to be a teenage thing in every culture unless they are getting up early to work... its time when there are no adults to tell them what to do, or see them at all, its 'private' time, dark side time, whatever. the same reason teens like to hang out in remote or abandoned areas during the day. its like a primeival need for a cave of their own.

bina

[cathyy]

Teenagers are different from children and adults when it comes to sleep. Yes, they need more of it than they tend to get, but the big issue is of course the hours they keep. Research has shown in the past few years that teens can't help staying up until 2 and sleeping in until noon. It's what they are supposed to be doing biologically. It's how their biological clock has been reset by puberty. In the US, some schools have begun revising the hours for high school to make it start later, like 9AM instead of 7AM. It's a small step in the right direction.

I myself wonder what evolutionary need this shift of biological clock filled. Was it the assurance of somebody always awake to stand guard and keep the fire going? if so, it would indeed have been of benefit to the species, no matter how annoying it is now.

[greenmember]

Teenager mother? This idea is hilarious, Bina.

Torrenova, I'm a night owl too but not until 4am like my children which is something I can't understand.

Son says the internet speed at night is fast. A few times a year, the electricity is cut around 8pm because the rains were too heavy. I love this fun part. Hubby can't watch tv. Children have nothing to do in their private rooms with no aircon nor fan. The crowd walk out then feeling regret (they never leave their seats at night), walk in again, then walk out to blame the cut, then walk in. They swear they won't waste another minute. Their time got to be in front of something to watch, hear, listen, view or play. So candle is on. They gather for a chat. This is so cool that normally they argue with the tv (they discuss when the tv is on with loud sound). Wondering if they can hear anything from each other when they talk but eyes glued to the tv screen and keep changing channels .

All went to bed around 9pm! Thank you. Power cut brings family members closer.

I'm sure as hel_ that those waking up by 2pm cannot sleep at 9pm.

[greenmember]

I have the same thought about biological clock that Cathy talked about. Thanks.

You know what, when I was in school (from 11-14 y.o.), I hated it so much that I had to be up by 5:30 or 6am, had the cold left over foods and rice (No microwave. Who can have appetite to eat that early?), went to school before they closed the door at 6:30am sharp. The class started at 7 but they let us be there 30 minutes for reviewing our homeworks. Until now I still think that is against the common sense. Children need more sleep hours than adults. I don't know what time they start now but in Thailand, I still see students in college uniform hanging around and waiting for bus by 9am.

[torrenova]

I was a trained swimmer so I was in the pool in the morning until the latter part of my teenage years (left home around 16/17) and then in the pool again after school. Other sport filled most of the remaining time and then some relaxation.

I never needed much sleep and when working in banking we didn't get much either. Saturday and Sunday were different matters of course but by then they were usually booze fuelled !

I don't know about any biological reason but you go pick an average kid today in the west and I'll bet a piund to a penny that they don't do anywhere near the amount of exercise and their free time is lazing about. We were active and whether that was because of a lack of electronic entertainment I don't know but kids today are glued to the stuff.

What about mobiles frying their brains ? I fear that will come back to haunt us.

[bina]

terra,

not sure where u live, but here, my son works about 10 hours on a friday in the apple orchards, the kids are always on hikeing trips, or going somewhere, or building something (they recently built and wired with stolen electicity a makeshift cabin in the fields, a club house sort of thing. the adults closed it up (too bad really cause the kids moved to a cave which we have tons of all over the place, and now we cant keep an i on them.... )

my oldest comes back from the army and spends friday watching soap operas and chlling out; by saturday afternoon she''s either hiking, or socializing in town or doing something else... i've never limited their tv watching... they self limit . but then, i was never a couch potato either... now i am more of one... most of their friends are like that but i guess city kids seem to do less but we do have a lot of boy scout type groups that are very active ... maybe its a city vs. country type living... not west vx east....

[Ijustwannateach]

A lot of teens (myself included when I was that age) burn the night oil because it is the time of day they can be pretty sure of having to themselves, without the interference of teachers or parents. Unfortunately many of them don't know their limits- I've had to suggest that certain parents keep a better eye on their children's sleeping habits when they are falling asleep at school!

"S"

[greenmember]

Our daughter likes to stay late to study, and in one of the tests/exams at college, she fell asleep, leaving her not enough time to complete the rest.

[torrenova]

Bina,

I live in Thailand but grew up on the edge of a city. In adulthood I lived in London, Frankfurt, Tokyo and Hong Kong.

I know people who never left the city I grew up in and I know how we played together outside, our parents having to come and get us from continuing playing football when it was nearly pitch black and nearly all state that their kids just will not get out and about, preferring the very electronic entertainment I talked about.

From your posts I know you live in a communal environment, perhaps in the countryside and also in a very different social group that I or I guess most never knew. Your comments about the army, pre army, etc. I cannot relate to as the UK did away with national service long before I was born but I do relate to the building of camps, hiking and other outdoor activities which were the norm. I just say that my experience of the youth of today is that they have no desire to do these things outside of a small number of pro active parents and some communities such as yours. Mention scouts and you'll get laughed at.

Whether it is the chicken or the egg, that the spaces disappeared and the opportunities vanished which left the void now taken by electronics or whether those physical expereinces were displaced by the invention of the home computer, VCR, playstation etc. I do not know.

I do know though that before I had a mobile phone I culd remember perhaps 50 to 100 phone numbers including international ones. Now I barely know my own number. I can also instantly compute any sum in the multiplication tables without thinking, now kids cannot. I studies english grammar, now kids do not. Changing times I think.

[madjbs]

I think for the U.K you are generally right, there is of course lots of families that do all these sports and stuff but the numbers are not that great compared to the ones that watch TV all day. As for the rest of the world, I have no idea.

Edited March 3, 2008 by madjbs

[IMA_FARANG]

When I was young, I was annoyed when my aunt woke me up at 6am. She said I woke up late! These old women were familiar with getting up by 4am for farm work. I lived in the city.

25 years have passed and now, as I consider getting up around 8am is normal, although I'm up by 7, our children still sleep until 2pm or 4pm. They're up by 5 or 6 to go to school, so when they return home, we let them sleep as much as they want. They stay until 2am to download music, to chat with friends and to play games. The other night our daughter talked with a friend via mobile phone until 5:30am. When she completely went to bed for a "night sleep" and turned off all lights, all sounds, it was after 6 in the morning!!! She was using European time zone in Thailand.

We're trying to tell them that teenagers won't maximize their height if they don't have a good night sleep before midnight. But seems that some teenagers feel it's a waste to sleep by 11pm and wake up by 8am.

What about your children?

When they are teenagers they assume they already know everything and can take care of themselves. Anything YOU say will barely be registered as it passes like a breeze through their brain.

When I was 13 to 18 any advice my mother or father tried to give me wasn't listened to....because both my parents were (in my opinion then) too old-fashioned and out-of-date. They didn't know anything.

All you can do as a parent is to give them the best factual information you can, hope they listen, and provide a cushion or them to land on when they make the inevitable mistakes and fall down.

Believe it or not, most of them do survive the teenage years and gain some kind of maturity.

By the way, when I made it into my 20's, my father and mother's advice started to make sense. I was surprized about how much they really did know. Guess they suddenly got smarter.

Or was it me?

[greenmember]

IMA, teenagers think they're mature and know everything We often confuse them by saying "Now you're an adult. Help with houseworks" or "You're still a child to stay alone (school has no dorm)"

madjbs, well, as for our children, how can they set the time for sports when they get up at 2pm? After lunch, their day almost ends. Internet. Dinner. Internet. End of a day. I think the school gives them some kind of sports per week.

Thanks everybody for replying which makes this discussion so interesting. I have a younger brother who (before he found a job) was blamed by my mom everyday that he took night be to be day and day to be night and another younger bro who still plays games when he has a daughter at 2. I think we don't need to force our children when to wake up because when they're at school, they must be up every morning; when they go to work, they must be up every morning; when they're 35, I doubt they still play these stupid online games and after they're 45, they can't be able to sleep after the sun rises.

[BigSnake]

Today's kids like to PARTY and night time is party time with the friends on the motorbike.

[rainman]

I'm 25 and I work until 5-6am. Is there something wrong with that?

[greenmember]

That activity is a killer. They don't start until 8-9pm I bet. Worth to remember that after partying, children come back home late and risk being robbed or rapped. 1-2am is no way a good time to come back home.

Some sources say the best time to sleep is between 10pm and 6am. Generally they advice us to sleep 8 hours a night but some people need only 5 hours and some people have to sleep longer.

If I have a week staying up until 1am, I'll feel tired, I'll drop things, cut my finger, burn fingers by touching hot surface when cooking, slip when moving inside the house, bite my own tongue, can't concentrate... Then I know I must go to bed earlier.

Good night sleeps give us a healthy mind and body.

[PhilHarries]

Surely it is associated with the natural rebelliousness (?) integral with growing up in most people. All your childhood you are told what and what not to do so once you start achieving a bit of independance you want to start pushing out the limits. The night is dark, mysterious and full of people having fun and enjoying life so it is only natural to want a slice of that action.

How 24/7 television, the internet and computer games fit into this strange world on the dark side is beyond me but I guess the concept of "fun" is constantly evolving and beyond the comprehension of this wrinkly old g1t.

[rixalex]

I speak as one who has no kids so i may well be off the mark here but...

why is it that people are talking about their kids sleeping patterns like they have no say in the matter? Whilst growing up i always had a "lights out" time that had to be obeyed. I wasn't necessarily forced to wake at a certain time but because i was asleep at a reasonable hour, this was not a problem.

Rules, limits and boundaries are still surely enforceable with the kids of today, or has discipline gone out the window?

[bina]

ahhhhhhhhh........rix... then i will clue u in: up til the age of about 10 kids are physically smaller than u so while brains are used for the most part, u can also put your kid in his room and for the most part he /she will stay there/. at age 17 when your son towers over u, and is in pre army activities,, do u really think i can do more then just explain to him the dangers of being too tired to drive after a party or to my daughter that walking home late at night is dangerous... they are adults... and hopefully i taught them well (i think they are good kids who mostly use good judgment but then i also made some ghastly mistakes as a 'mature' teenager, which could have ended up really badly). since, like training large animals, force is not used, behavioral modification is all there is and in day to day activities, things dont always work out. my ex gets into power plays with the two teenagers and loses or they get all huffy and walk out. we talk more and i am more lenient but hopefully they have learned thru trial and error, some minor mistakes and mishaps, that what i explain and request and talk about are actually good ideas based on older wisdom.

for the most part both the terrible twos and the terrible teens have gone over more or less well, each chld has done some mild revolution (as it should be or they wouldnt be normal adults afterwards) and have chosen very responsible roads to travel.... but they still party late and call when they arrive or call so i can come and get them from a central drop off point, nowadays with sms /cell phones so much easier...

14 yr old has had a 'curfew' at father's house, here she is self regulating as she has learned that if she doesnt get enough sleep she feels awful in the morning so will leave teen parties earlier then most, after twice going off w/o permission and we discussed the results (frantic mom -as while we have some crime we have a lot more politically oriented crimes here-and the consequences that could have been... she has shaped up).... but we only have one day weekends so thru out the week for the most part they are up and out by 6:30 anyway (the youngest)... and here army changes everything after....

bina

israel

all teens are jekyll and hydes but if handled properly it gets better with time....

(i was a house mother for trouble teens for two years in a dorm situation so speak with experience with 'difficult' kids as well)

[rixalex]

ahhhhhhhhh........rix... then i will clue u in: up til the age of about 10 kids are physically smaller than u so while brains are used for the most part, u can also put your kid in his room and for the most part he /she will stay there/. at age 17 when your son towers over u, and is in pre army activities,, do u really think i can do more then just explain to him the dangers of being too tired to drive after a party or to my daughter that walking home late at night is dangerous... they are adults... and hopefully i taught them well (i think they are good kids who mostly use good judgment but then i also made some ghastly mistakes as a 'mature' teenager, which could have ended up really badly). since, like training large animals, force is not used, behavioral modification is all there is and in day to day activities, things dont always work out. my ex gets into power plays with the two teenagers and loses or they get all huffy and walk out. we talk more and i am more lenient but hopefully they have learned thru trial and error, some minor mistakes and mishaps, that what i explain and request and talk about are actually good ideas based on older wisdom.

for the most part both the terrible twos and the terrible teens have gone over more or less well, each chld has done some mild revolution (as it should be or they wouldnt be normal adults afterwards) and have chosen very responsible roads to travel.... but they still party late and call when they arrive or call so i can come and get them from a central drop off point, nowadays with sms /cell phones so much easier...

14 yr old has had a 'curfew' at father's house, here she is self regulating as she has learned that if she doesnt get enough sleep she feels awful in the morning so will leave teen parties earlier then most, after twice going off w/o permission and we discussed the results (frantic mom -as while we have some crime we have a lot more politically oriented crimes here-and the consequences that could have been... she has shaped up).... but we only have one day weekends so thru out the week for the most part they are up and out by 6:30 anyway (the youngest)... and here army changes everything after....

bina

israel

all teens are jekyll and hydes but if handled properly it gets better with time....

(i was a house mother for trouble teens for two years in a dorm situation so speak with experience with 'difficult' kids as well)

Thanks for clueing me in Bina.

If you'll excuse me, I'll be off now to cut off my penis.

[greenmember]

I love reading Bina's post here. So true. I agree with what Phil has said.

Alex, since they were born until 11, they were sticking to us like superglue. We slept in the same room and when we walked out of the bed at 6am, they immediately followed us. When we went to bed around 9pm, they walked in front of us as they were scared of ghosts if they stayed alone watching TV.

After they started to sleep alone in their own rooms when they turned 12, we cannot force them to sleep earlier. We can't stay near the door to sing "Time to sleep" because they don't listen.