Pressure To Convert To Buddhism?

[Aries74]

Hmm, Jesus was God's messenger, for the lack of a better term, Buddha was "a guy who figured out some good stuff".

From God's level that "good stuff" is just ABC, and it won't let you get anywhere near God. Jesus will. Of course there's no God in Buddhism, but, if THERE IS God, Buddha knew nothing about it.To make matters even more complicated - according to Hindus, Buddha was God himself.

One thing I'm sure of - Buddha wouldn't have approved of this kind of comparisons, or looked at Jesus as his junior.

Actually, what do you think they would have said to each other if they ever met.

It would be hard to know what they would say to each other. Maybe the Buddha would keep a noble silence since their recorded beliefs seem so dissimilar. The available documention about the Buddha seems to suggest that he discounted the existence of God.

Of course it could be argued that the teachings of Jesus have been distorted as he never wrote any books himself - the same could be said for the Buddha.

I can't say which teachings is superior in the world, but I can say which teaching is superior for me.

Buddha was "a guy who figured out some good stuff". AND GOT CAUGHT

http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/article.html?...mp;in_page_id=2

http://news.scotsman.com/world/Monks-39woo...ne39.3842881.jp

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nati...05_monks05.html

http://www.informationweek.com/news/showAr...cleID=206902124

[garro]

Hi Aries74, I fail to find the point in your posts. You open a thread called 'stay away from Buddhism' yet you talk about people being encouraged to convert by their girlfriends. Next you post about the Buddha 'got caught' but the links are stories about monks who broke Buddhist training rules.

I can only assume that you have little understanding about Buddhism, and that is fair enough. You don't need to become a Buddhist just be happy. The problem is that you are trying to debate about the Buddha when it's clear from your posts that you have little knowledge about the subject. Maybe you should just try and live and let live. If you have a belief system then you enjoy it. There is no need for you to feel insecure and attack other people's beliefs. If you don't like the Buddha and his teachings don't waste your time on Buddhist threads.

[traveller5000]

Actually, what do you think they would have said to each other if they ever met.

Jesus would have done what pretty much every spiritual seeker did when they met the Buddha and felt his powerful spiritual aura - he would have become a follower of the Buddha and probably one of his most advanced disciples.

[gunnyd]

After reading through the many posts in this thread I remember the often said: Never discuss politics, sex and religion unless you want to start an argument (paraphrased). Religion is such a loaded topic that I purposely avoid discussing in mixed company. Too many have been killed for their religious beliefs.

GunnyD

[Aries74]

Hi Aries74, I fail to find the point in your posts. You open a thread called 'stay away from Buddhism' yet you talk about people being encouraged to convert by their girlfriends. Next you post about the Buddha 'got caught' but the links are stories about monks who broke Buddhist training rules.

I can only assume that you have little understanding about Buddhism, and that is fair enough. You don't need to become a Buddhist just be happy. The problem is that you are trying to debate about the Buddha when it's clear from your posts that you have little knowledge about the subject. Maybe you should just try and live and let live. If you have a belief system then you enjoy it. There is no need for you to feel insecure and attack other people's beliefs. If you don't like the Buddha and his teachings don't waste your time on Buddhist threads.

Yes, Sir Sorry

After reading through the many posts in this thread I remember the often said: Never discuss politics, sex and religion unless you want to start an argument (paraphrased). Religion is such a loaded topic that I purposely avoid discussing in mixed company. Too many have been killed for their religious beliefs.

GunnyD

Yes, I agree

I'm glad I'm not near Garro, he probably got the monkey grip on me right now.

Edited March 10, 2008 by Aries74

[garro]

Hi gunnyd, I would normally agree about not discussing religion in public because it causes arguments, but this is the Buddhist section of Thaivisa and if we can't discuss Buddhism here then where should we discuss it.

I always wonder why people who have no interest in Buddhism should choose to post on Buddhist threads. I once went on to the football section and mentioned my dislike of football. They pointed out that I shouldn't be on the football thread then should I?- I had to admit they did have a point.

[camerata]

Buddha was "a guy who figured out some good stuff". AND GOT CAUGHT

http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/article.html?...mp;in_page_id=2

http://news.scotsman.com/world/Monks-39woo...ne39.3842881.jp

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nati...05_monks05.html

http://www.informationweek.com/news/showAr...cleID=206902124

If you are going to post links to other sites, make them relevant to the topic and give us a reasonable description of what they contain, as per the forum rules:

11) We ask you use discretion when using blind references in any post or signature. Not all users of thaivisa.com are experienced enough to understand where these links may point.

And don't post the same links in multiple posts, as you have here.

[camerata]

I always wonder why people who have no interest in Buddhism should choose to post on Buddhist threads.

I think the problem is the atheists and Christians have no forum of their own so they try and sneak in here.

I'd like everyone to bear in mind the Buddhist Forum's additional guidelines pinned above:

Posts about other religions, eg, Christianity, Islam, etc, or about the existence of God, intelligent design, creation, etc are allowable only when expressly discussed in the context of Buddhism. Any new topic where Buddhism is not thematically involved will be immediately deleted, or, if otherwise relevant to Thailand, moved to the appropriate subforum.

[camerata]

Actually I just think that the Buddha was a pretty smart guy who figured out some good stuff

and so were another bunch of religion founders.

yeh but the Buddha was way more spiritually advanced than Christ so it is hardly an equal comparison.

Please substantiate this.

Please don't. The topic at hand is converting to/from Buddhism.

[traveller5000]

Too many have been killed for their religious beliefs.

Yes, it is a shame, but you will find it is mainly the followers of monotheistic religions that have killed for their religious beliefs.

Buddhism is largely free of such violence.

Which drives home the point I was making earlier - keeping in mind that violence is the antithesis of spirituality - that Buddhism is a more spiritually advanced religion than Christianity.

[camerata]

I had a farang friend who was a devout Christian, married to a Thai Buddhist and living in Thailand 20 years. He never bugged me about religion but one day when I was having a drink with him and a long-time friend of his, he announced that his wife had agreed to become a Christian. When I asked why, he said, "Because she believes!" Five minutes later, his friend got up and left, and neither of us ever saw him again. He told me that his wife had already been to the local temple to "make her excuses to the Buddha." But when I asked him about her a couple of years later it seems she hadn't gone through with the "conversion." To me, that means her heart was never really in it, she didn't believe, and she mainly wanted to please her husband. But that's just my opinion.

[thaiclan]

Excellent book that cuts through alot of the BS and actually brings Jesus and Buddha far closer together in their realisations. "A New Earth" by Eckhart Tolle. Second to none IMO and I have read alot of spiritual books in the past 10 years.

Jesus said time and time again that God is within you, yet still those wise and learned men chose to view God in their own image..... ah well once you read the book you will understand the Ego and Painbody engulfing the self for identification......

Go read the book,,,its awesome!xx

[traveller5000]

I had a farang friend who was a devout Christian, married to a Thai Buddhist and living in Thailand 20 years. He never bugged me about religion but one day when I was having a drink with him and a long-time friend of his, he announced that his wife had agreed to become a Christian. When I asked why, he said, "Because she believes!" Five minutes later, his friend got up and left, and neither of us ever saw him again. He told me that his wife had already been to the local temple to "make her excuses to the Buddha." But when I asked him about her a couple of years later it seems she hadn't gone through with the "conversion." To me, that means her heart was never really in it, she didn't believe, and she mainly wanted to please her husband. But that's just my opinion.

That sounds about right. For it to work, to really go deep in their blood, it normally has to be started when they are young.

One farang I know around town is in the process of "educating" about 15 or so Thai children (buddhists presumably), neglected by their parents or orphans, looking after them kindly etc, but with the covert intention of converting them. I've no doubt if one day these children after growing up and with a head-start in life, one day turned their back on Christianity (for whatever reasons), that (conditional) love would evaporate.

As far as I know, followers of Buddhism are not burdened with that type pressure.

Edited March 10, 2008 by traveller5000

[Plus]

Go read the book,,,its awesome!xx

Hard to follow your advice in this information overload age.

If you can't sum it up in one sentence relevant to this thread you probably don't understand it yourself, and if you don't understand it, you are probably not qualified to recommend it.

[Aries74]

Too many have been killed for their religious beliefs.

Yes, it is a shame, but you will find it is mainly the followers of monotheistic religions that have killed for their religious beliefs.

Buddhism is largely free of such violence.

Which drives home the point I was making earlier - keeping in mind that violence is the antithesis of spirituality - that Buddhism is a more spiritually advanced religion than Christianity.

I was born in Thailand, and I belief in buddhism for most of my life. My parents, cousins, relatives, are all buddhism.

Yes, Too many have been killed for their religious beliefs. At the moment I'm not a big fan of any religion. I can talk about others religion like christianity. This is a Budda forum. You can mention all the great things about buddhism in this forum and not the bad stuff make it fair.

This is only my opinion, look around thailand, buddha purpose is end suffering. See anything wrong in thailand. They belife in superstition, and rituals, pray, worship the staue, and these are not solutions for problem.

monk life full of difficulty prohibit to work, we give them money, wear the same cloth, can not touch woman, marry or have family life, no dinner, feed themself from other people, etc.

many more, but I will stop here.

yes, their are bad people in buddha, christ, others religion, but does some of the teaching have infleunce on the people.

My parents are buddhism, when you are young you believed what they told you, like santa claus

They told me to do this do that, all superstition stuffs, where are logic for me doing all this non-sense thing. They do not solve anything. Never that I know of.

Thanks to this forum I can speak my opinion. If you know thai culture talking like this to my family members is unacceptable. I can't even say bad thing about thailand or thai people. I really hate when they take advantages of farangs or tourists.

Please spare me.

Thank you.

[camerata]

You can mention all the great things about buddhism in this forum and not the bad stuff make it fair.

You can mention the bad stuff, but try and keep some balance. We get far too many posts about "bad monks" and it gets really boring. Most of these "bad monks" are just ordinary guys who ordained because they don't know what else to do. The monkhood is just another occupation to them. We can't realistically expect them to behave like the few monks who are seeking enlightenment.

My parents are buddhism, when you are young you believed what they told you, like santa claus

They told me to do this do that, all superstition stuffs, where are logic for me doing all this non-sense thing. They do not solve anything. Never that I know of.

For Thais, the problem is how to transcend the "popular Buddhism," animism and superstition they were brought up with and find the true Dhamma. I know some who have done it. Mostly they do vipassana meditation to help them deal with stress.

Thanks to this forum I can speak my opinion. If you know thai culture talking like this to my family members is unacceptable. I can't even say bad thing about thailand or thai people.

Well, that's certainly not the case at thaivisa.com.

[garro]

Hi again Aries74, I come from a Christian country and my family are Christian. I gave up my religion in my teens and became interested in Buddhism. It was the first thing to draw me to Thailand. I wanted to do meditation courses. In my teens I had a period where I was very angry with Christianity. I would criticise Christianity in front of my family and this caused them great upset. One day I realised that this was very childish behavior. I may have found a different path, but it didn't give me the right to ridicule their religion. When I gave up Christianity I also gave up my right to debate about its teachings. Do you see what I mean? If Buddhism is no longer for you, no problem. You can become whatever religion you want. I see plenty of Christians in Thailand. The point is though that just because it is no longer good for you does not mean it's no longer good for other people.

Good luck to you.

[thaiclan]

Go read the book,,,its awesome!xx

Hard to follow your advice in this information overload age.

If you can't sum it up in one sentence relevant to this thread you probably don't understand it yourself, and if you don't understand it, you are probably not qualified to recommend it.

Bwa ha ha, bwa ha ha. Sorry if you need books to be summed up in one sentence, obviously this one is not for you!

[traveller5000]

Where do you get this crap? How do you figure Buddha is 'higher' then Christ on the spiritual scale? Enlightened is enlightened, once you've attained that, you're pretty equal in my opinion .

hey. even if you don't agree with me, no need to swear. ok ill try and explain.

first of all in Buddhism, there are four different levels of enlightenment.

secondly, the arahant is the highest and does not get reborn.

thirdly, as we all know Christ was resurrected on the third day or whatever. So clearly he was not an arahant although he did have some supernatural zombie type powers of some sort.

so in summary they were not equal.

[Nudee]

I was born in Thailand, and I belief in buddhism for most of my life. My parents, cousins, relatives, are all buddhism.

Yes, Too many have been killed for their religious beliefs. At the moment I'm not a big fan of any religion. I can talk about others religion like christianity. This is a Budda forum. You can mention all the great things about buddhism in this forum and not the bad stuff make it fair.

This is only my opinion, look around thailand, buddha purpose is end suffering. See anything wrong in thailand. They belife in superstition, and rituals, pray, worship the staue, and these are not solutions for problem.

monk life full of difficulty prohibit to work, we give them money, wear the same cloth, can not touch woman, marry or have family life, no dinner, feed themself from other people, etc.

many more, but I will stop here.

yes, their are bad people in buddha, christ, others religion, but does some of the teaching have infleunce on the people.

My parents are buddhism, when you are young you believed what they told you, like santa claus

They told me to do this do that, all superstition stuffs, where are logic for me doing all this non-sense thing. They do not solve anything. Never that I know of.

Thanks to this forum I can speak my opinion. If you know thai culture talking like this to my family members is unacceptable. I can't even say bad thing about thailand or thai people. I really hate when they take advantages of farangs or tourists.

Please spare me.

Thank you.

Please share us what you have leant from Buddha before claiming that you were a buddhist.

I was born buddhism but I really understood what lord Buddha taught just in recent years.

[BigSnake]

No we each do our own little thing when it comes to religion.

[gunnyd]

Hi gunnyd, I would normally agree about not discussing religion in public because it causes arguments, but this is the Buddhist section of Thaivisa and if we can't discuss Buddhism here then where should we discuss it.

I always wonder why people who have no interest in Buddhism should choose to post on Buddhist threads. I once went on to the football section and mentioned my dislike of football. They pointed out that I shouldn't be on the football thread then should I?- I had to admit they did have a point.

I hear ya, it just seemed to me that the thread was degenerating into a "my beliefs is better than yours" flame war. Some just like to stir up other people's emotions for entertainment.

GunnyD

[suegha]

I think we should avoid references to Christianity on this thread. It is obvious that few, if any, have a real understanding of Christianity. As a previous poster said (garro, I think?) I would'nt go to the Sports section and start commenting on sport - I know nothing about sport! So please, don't start pontificating on Christianity when you know so little and obviously care even less.

Thank you.

[camerata]

Again, let's get back on the topic of conversion to/from Buddhism.

[Xangsamhua]

Again, let's get back on the topic of conversion to/from Buddhism.

There's very little conversion from Buddhism to other religions, whether from inertia or because other religions are not particularly attractive to Buddhists for one reason or another. There's some interest in Buddhism in the West, partly because Buddhism is attractive, though at a serious level it's a bit cerebral for a lot of people. It's also culturally alien to most Westerners.

Partly Buddhism appeals to Westerners because Christianity in its present form is in such bad shape in the West and lacks credible leadership. However, Islam gets about 50,000 converts a year among Christians in Europe for perhaps that reason (yet Islam has a serious leadership problem and is wildly fissiparous).

Buddhism is often attractive to Westerners who have little real knowledge of Christianity (and it does take some study) and even less sympathy for it. Mind you, study of it (Xianity) isn't necessily going to make it more appealing, but will probably incline one to be less dismissive. The same comment applies to other major religions. Still, as someone said, we live in an information-overloaded age, so if study of Buddhist teaching and practice of the way takes up your time, and if it satisfies, you might as well stick to it.

[geriatrickid]

Nobody tried to convert me, I am an atheist anyway. Many friends of mine are Buddhist scholars. One of their precepts is not to teach anyone who is not ready. I have to ask whenever I want to know anything.

Wow, some genuine Bhuddhists.

My understanding was that one is born into the life and that conversions really aren't encouraged. Only two religions that I know of where they don't proslytize and they try to discourage folks from joining - Bhuddism and Judaism.

Seems a bit snooty to me. That's why I'm a member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, where we welcome all.

[Brucenkhamen]

Wow, some genuine Bhuddhists.

My understanding was that one is born into the life and that conversions really aren't encouraged. Only two religions that I know of where they don't proslytize and they try to discourage folks from joining - Bhuddism and Judaism.

Seems a bit snooty to me. That's why I'm a member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, where we welcome all.

It isn't necessary to convert if one wishes to practice the Buddhas path, I'm not even sure how someone would be considered to have "converted".

In fact you can continue to belong to ones original religion if you want to.

As long as the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster are fine with that too you should have no problems.

[Brucenkhamen]

I think we should avoid references to Christianity on this thread. It is obvious that few, if any, have a real understanding of Christianity. As a previous poster said (garro, I think?) I would'nt go to the Sports section and start commenting on sport - I know nothing about sport! So please, don't start pontificating on Christianity when you know so little and obviously care even less.

I think it's fine to draw on ones past experiences with religion to compare and contrast it with Buddhism on this forum.

For most of us that's Christianity, now that may have been Catholic, Protestant, Pentecostal, Quaker, Mormon, JW, you name it.

I don't think there needs to be any requirement that this conform to correct theology according to the version of Christianity that Suegha follows, as long it adds to the discussion of Buddhism (which isn't always the case, granted).

[zorro1]

But what has this got to do with "Stay Away from Buddhism"?

nothing at all. some people just don't think when selecting a topic

...but got YOUR attention, didn't it, Naam-dude? Maybe the poster was more devious than you give credit...

indeed it did. but i still stick to my 'verdict' that the OP did not think when he selected the topic. i give neither credit to the topic nor to the content of the OP's posting.

Sorry op but got to agree with Naam on that. Imagine if everyone used a false title just to get attention, what a mess Thai visa would be.

[sabaijai]

I agree with the previous post, and have changed the title of this topic to better reflect its original content.