Seller Wants Land Back

[MikeandDow]

My wife (Thai) bought some land from her sister's boyfriend mother, wife got the land papers filled out signed the papers the buyfriend mother signed papers and money handed over, wife tells me all ok but can not register the land change over name at the District for 5yrs ????? Wife happy so we decided to build a house on the land, House now nearly complete, the sister split up with the boyfriend and now the boyfriends mother wants to give the money back and take back the land we have been in touch with a lawyer he said to the wife we do not have any problems they can not take back the land any thoughts !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GuestHouse]

What sort of Title Deed does your wife have?

If I was you I would get a second lawyer's advice - If the advice comes out the same that the former owner cannot take the land back then learn a lesson from your Sister-in-Law and tell the x-boyfriend's mother to sling her hook too.

[MikeandDow]

What sort of Title Deed does your wife have?

If I was you I would get a second lawyer's advice - If the advice comes out the same that the former owner cannot take the land back then learn a lesson from your Sister-in-Law and tell the x-boyfriend's mother to sling her hook too.

Not sure she has a deed yet just a form which states the size of land,price she paid signed by the wife the x mother in law and witnesses wife says she takes this to the District in 5yrs time to get the land registered in her name the xmother in law did go to the police and we where told we had to stop building as xmother in law wanted to take it to court but after the wife saw the lawyer we went back to the police and explaned the situation they told the wife there is no court documents and that now they understood what happened that the wife has bought the land there is no reason to stop building the house so we started building the house again the xboyfriend and xmother in law are not too happy not to sure about this 5yr before you can get the land in the wife's name wife says its normal ???????? the xsisters boyfriend says he is waiting till the house is finished and he is going to take the land back and the house but this is drink talking any suggestions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Crossy]

You really need to find out what type of land title exists for your purchase (wifey should know).

It will (should) be one of these:-

Title Deeds (Chanote)

Confirmed Certificate of Use (Nor Sor Saam Kor)

Certificate of Use (Ngor Sor Saam)

Certificate of Possession (Sor Kor Nung)

General advice is that it is wise to purchase only "chanote" or "nor sor saam kor" titled land.

More explanation here http://www.ethailand.com/index.php?id=530 and here http://siam-infoguide.com/land-titles-and-sises.html

We transferred our title (chanote) immediately we'd paid for the property, don't know the exact process, the other half sorted everything. I've not come across this 5-year thing unless there's some kind of mortgage/charge on the land or possibly the seller is trying to avoid the taxes levvied if you sell within a short time of purchase.

I would certainly stop building now and keep it that way until sorted. You may also wish to hire a bulldozer and park it next to your house ready for instant action if the worst happens and you lose

Edited April 23, 2008 by Crossy

[MikeandDow]

You really need to find out what type of land title exists for your purchase (wifey should know).

It will (should) be one of these:-

Title Deeds (Chanote)

Confirmed Certificate of Use (Nor Sor Saam Kor)

Certificate of Use (Ngor Sor Saam)

Certificate of Possession (Sor Kor Nung)

More explanation here http://www.ethailand.com/index.php?id=530 and here http://siam-infoguide.com/land-titles-and-sises.html

We transferred our title (chanote) immediately we'd paid for the property, don't know the exact process, the other half sorted everything. I've not come across this 5-year thing unless there's some kind of mortgage/charge on the land or possibly the seller is trying to avoid the taxes levvied if you sell within a short time of purchase.

I would certainly stop building now and keep it that way until sorted. You may also wish to hire a bulldozer and park it next to your house ready for instant action if the worst happens and you lose

have got the bulldozer not going to stop building this now is not going to court the wife seems happy about the paper she has the x mother inlaw owns a lot of land and this was part of the land sub divided so not sure how this works land was measured out ect about 1 rai so this 5yr thing has me beat

[joskydive]

Suggest you go and get that second opinion a.s.a.p. Never heard of having to wait 5 years to put the land in someone else's name before. As far as I know, you pay your money and register the land into the new owners name immediately and recieve the deeds with the new owners name on it.

Just a thought, have you got proof of payment apart from the document that was signed and witnessed. i.e. bank withdrawal statement, bank transfer from one account to the other. Also, the contract for building the house on the land. Presumably, if this does end up in the courts, all these documents would be relevant and can help you.

A Lawyer, from out of town, should be able to tell you what rights you have and also if you can then take a criminal case against her for causing these problems now, after you have improved the value of the property.

One other thing - Can it be confirmed that she is actually the owner of the land in question or has she mortgaged it out before and maybe that is why there is this 5 year waiting to register at the Land Office thing going on.

Just my thoughts!

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Why don't you have wife take the paper to the land department and ask them to put it in her name. If they do problem is solved if they don't you are no worse off.

[Gary A]

My wife was involved in a deal like that. She explained to me that the land had no chanote but that a chanote was applied for, the land surveyed and the chanote granted with the stipulation that it could not be sold for five years. My wife had her name on the back of that chanote as holding the mortgage. It was explained that is normally the way it is done. The time has passed and the chanote is now transferred to her name. It may be a dangerous thing to build a house on the land because it's possible that if the mortgage is paid and the mortgage removed, the land could still belong to the original chanote holder. The original chanote holder had to go to the land office with my wife to complete the transfer.

[Tammi]

It will (should) be one of these:-

Title Deeds (Chanote)

Confirmed Certificate of Use (Nor Sor Saam Kor)

Certificate of Use (Ngor Sor Saam)

Certificate of Possession (Sor Kor Nung)

General advice is that it is wise to purchase only "chanote" or "nor sor saam kor" titled land.

I know about Chanote. Where does one get the certificates from? The Land Office?

[Shah Jahan]

there are other situations where land is given to villagers for agricultural use only and they are not allowed to sell or transfer or build on that land.

land like this is commonly sold/transfered and usually includes village headmen signing off and photo graphs of money changing hands etc.....

why dont you just go and hire a cop to sort this out? thats what the police are here for

[Cuban]

I've skip reading through some posts so this may be a repeat, depends on the land title, should have "Title Deeds (Chanote)", this land title is availible in two flavours: Red and Green. If the Chanote has the red colored crest at the head of the certificate it is the best full land title deed. What you might have is a 'Confirmed Certificate of Use' (aka Ngor Sor Saam Gor) which certifies the rights to use land this is sometimes issued before the full Chanote (red crest) title deed.

The delay period for changing name might be due to earlier sub-division of the land. When land is divided for sale the issue of Chanote or permission to futher sub-divide can be subject to a number of years delay. (I've heard of three years but that might have been two years after an earlier division?) It was explained to me that sub-dividing land was subject to limitations by the land office, you may only cut a section of land 9 times in a 5(?) year period, if you were to place a road on your land (if you were building a gated village) the road itself would count as one cut.

If 'your' plot of land were the result of earlier sub-division within the land office's time limits you might find that this is the cause of the delay in certificate issue/change. Or there might be a delay as the land is subject to change of use - most often this would be from farming land to housing.

As for getting the land back - If the exchange is fully completed and documented the woman in question is onto a looser. As for the house - keep your receipts!

----------------edit-------------------

I thought I had read something like this thread before.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Cuban

[MikeandDow]

I've skip reading through some posts so this may be a repeat, depends on the land title, should have "Title Deeds (Chanote)", this land title is availible in two flavours: Red and Green. If the Chanote has the red colored crest at the head of the certificate it is the best full land title deed. What you might have is a 'Confirmed Certificate of Use' (aka Ngor Sor Saam Gor) which certifies the rights to use land this is sometimes issued before the full Chanote (red crest) title deed.

The delay period for changing name might be due to earlier sub-division of the land. When land is divided for sale the issue of Chanote or permission to futher sub-divide can be subject to a number of years delay. (I've heard of three years but that might have been two years after an earlier division?) It was explained to me that sub-dividing land was subject to limitations by the land office, you may only cut a section of land 9 times in a 5(?) year period, if you were to place a road on your land (if you were building a gated village) the road itself would count as one cut.

If 'your' plot of land were the result of earlier sub-division within the land office's time limits you might find that this is the cause of the delay in certificate issue/change. Or there might be a delay as the land is subject to change of use - most often this would be from farming land to housing.

As for getting the land back - If the exchange is fully completed and documented the woman in question is onto a looser. As for the house - keep your receipts!

Just phoned the wife about all this and luckly enough she was in the lawyers office sister taking the xboyfriend to court, she left him due to him getting drunk all the time and thia boxing her, anyhow lawyer stated that the we would not get the certificate for 5yrs due to the land to be rezoned from farm land to house land and the paper that the wife has is the same as a chanote its legaly binding and the old witch can not get the land back so i think the xboyfriend and his mother is up sh*t creek also i think when the xboyfriend finds out that he is up to go to court for half his worth there will be more land and his house up for sale.

[eljeque]

I know of one instance where the land came from the government, to the first owner for farming use, and could not be sold for 10 years.

This was stated on the chinote....... in RED INK.

[PadThaiGuy]

Somthings wrong.

Whenever you get into a sea of confusion there is a good chance you are being bamboozled.

Consider your wife, inlaws, lawyers are in cahoots to fleece another farang .

[rhino533]

My Thai wife and I just bought 4 rai. The 4 rai was sub divided into 1 rai plots. We bought 4 plots. There was no 5 year wait to register the land. We paid the money, the same day we paid the money we went to the Land Development Association and transferred everything into our name. Took 1 day in total to register and transfer everything. This 5 year wait is really strange. I would go to the Land Development Association in your area and ask them about this. Show them the documents you have and get advice from them. They are pretty good, they will explain everything in full. This is my advice go to the Land Development Association first find out what they have to say then go see a lawyer again. I pretty sure there is no such thing as a 5 year wait when buying land in Thailand.

[backflip]

"I pretty sure there is no such thing as a 5 year wait when buying land in Thailand."

Under some circumstances, there is a waiting period. The question is, for this specific case, is there a 5-year period. I don't know the answer to that question but, as padthaiguy posted, I'm sure that the situation will only be solved when the farang provides money to someone.

[SamuiRes]

"I pretty sure there is no such thing as a 5 year wait when buying land in Thailand."

Under some circumstances, there is a waiting period. The question is, for this specific case, is there a 5-year period. I don't know the answer to that question but, as padthaiguy posted, I'm sure that the situation will only be solved when the farang provides money to someone.

Maybe the Five Year issue relates to a potential tax liability. Land sold having been held for less than 5 years is subject to Specific Business Tax (until recently 3.3%) on transfer but if held for more than 5 years only Stamp duty (0.5%). Transfer Fees have also been reduced from 2% to 0.01%. SBT was reduced to 0.1% recently. I can think of no other reason for a 5 year delay in registering.

[Gary A]

There is indeed a five year wait on some land that was just surveyed and a brand new chanote issued. It has to do with profiteering. The government wanted to be sure the land was not issued a chanote by underhanded means, then sold with the government official and the owner sharing the money.