Who Knows This Law

[MengWan]

Of the farangland referances - I understand that 'measured' force will not incur legal redress being carried out against you - excessive or premeditated use of force is a problem.

Shooting a thief running away from your house is a problem - shooting him in the legs as he approached you is not a problem - I believe in the later case the householder said in court, "...I discharged the weapon - both barrels as I feared for my life and wanted to make the weapon safe as his came towards me, it was an accident that the barrel of the gun was lined up with his legs..." the defence was accepted.

Shooting someone in the back is clearly revenge farang courts don't like that.

With regard to Thai law and intruders - I read on here (Issan forum?) about a case were someone was having a problem with a Thai man at the boarder of a man's property - the Thai police said that if the offender entered the property the owner could defend himself and his property using whatever was close to hand. (As a remember...)

Shooting a thief, well, I suppose one should ask the papers of this guy and see "Profession : THIEF" written on them ?

Or maybe the guy has a lot of items stolen to you on his arms and is fleeing ?

I think that more often someone is "a thief" when the "owner" does not like the color of his skin ...

Like in the US, where blacks are all theives and killers that need to be hanged at the first tall tree near ?

Entering someone's property is not a crime per se, maybe the door bell is no more functional, heu, but to me (and a lot of others), shooting at someone without reason is !

Cowboys should be shooting the indians that they did not kill already, in their country ...

Others could exercise their abilities in the schools and universities of one famous country, but please, let Thailand in peace !

[sbk]

This is not about American law, or what goes on in the US. Neither is this about people entering ones house because the doorbell is broken. People here are talking about someone entering their house and stealing their stuff here in Thailand. Ask the girl whose room was broken into and she was raped in her own bed if it had anything to do with the color of his skin or if she had the right to defend herself.

As far as I know, if someone breaks into a person's house in the middle of the night the owner has the right to defend themselves if they feel threatened. This is what we are talking about.

[MengWan]

This is not about American law, or what goes on in the US. Neither is this about people entering ones house because the doorbell is broken. People here are talking about someone entering their house and stealing their stuff here in Thailand. Ask the girl whose room was broken into and she was raped in her own bed if it had anything to do with the color of his skin or if she had the right to defend herself.

As far as I know, if someone breaks into a person's house in the middle of the night the owner has the right to defend themselves if they feel threatened. This is what we are talking about.

Sorry, I did not see the word "rapist" before, I thought it was about theives, or presumed so ...

Shooting "intruders" is the subject here, or it is what I understood, and I still think that intrusion is not a crime.

Intrusion doest NOT mean "breaking in one's house", it could mean entering the garden to fetch a lost balloon, as is a theif the child who intrudes to steal apples from your trees !

And I do NOT think it is suitable to shoot "intruders", sorry if this is not your opinion, it is mine and I know a lot of people who surely would agree.

If in Texas anyone has the right to kill someone setting foot on one's ground, it is good for them there, I do not think it is a "law" suitable for Thailand.

And, as I understand it is a crime to shoot (and kill) indiscriminately here, I would petition for this kind of offender NOT to be put to death because I am against this kind of "punishment" too !

[sbk]

I think most people here are talking about people coming into their house. I think you are wilfully misreading the subject, frankly. And in doing so attempting to change the focus of the discussion to something completely unrelated by bringing up the US etc.

Someone has asked about the law in Thailand. Do you know what that law is?

[Gatorade]

If you have a legal permit, getting a gun is not illigal... but I think it's hard to get a permit as a Farang, anybody knows more?

It is difficult for a Farang to get a permit but not impossible, and it depends on who you know. T.I.T.

Generally you will not be allowed to carry it outside of your property. Although I think taking it to the range for practise or for overhaul is OK.

[PoorSucker]

Although I think taking it to the range for practise or for overhaul is OK

I'm always on the way to range.

[IMA_FARANG]

In Texas you can shoot and kill intruders on your private property even if they are unarmed.

In Spain if someone armed comes on your property and you kill them in self defence you go to jail.

A man in Australia some years ago was being robbed often enough for him to electrify his doors with 240 volts, a burgular was shocked and paralised, the man went to Jail.

Uk someone told me that if you catch a burgular in your house and assault him you will go to jail for assault.

I would rather live in Texas I think.

Whats the Thai law on this as i want to know how much security should i get............

This has nothing to do with Thailand, but some years ago two pf my friends caught a burgeler breaking into their house in Saigon (now Ho Chi Minh city). They trussed him up, and dropped him down a dry well outside their house. Kept him there for 3 days. When they let him out, they told him to tell all his friends that anyone who tried to break into their house would be thrown down into that well, this time permanently. They were there for 2 more years, and never had another break in.

[BigC]

In Texas you can shoot and kill intruders on your private property even if they are unarmed.

In Spain if someone armed comes on your property and you kill them in self defence you go to jail.

A man in Australia some years ago was being robbed often enough for him to electrify his doors with 240 volts, a burgular was shocked and paralised, the man went to Jail.

Uk someone told me that if you catch a burgular in your house and assault him you will go to jail for assault.

I would rather live in Texas I think.

Whats the Thai law on this as i want to know how much security should i get............

This doesn't really answer your question but I understand that holders of firearms with appropriate permit, (which normally restricts to the place of residence) are allowed to use them against an intruder. This follows that other forms of force may be allowed, although I'm not sure about electrified fencing (probably wouldn't be working half the time). I have this from a normally reliable Thai source.

nice 1 if u want to kill someone. invite them round your house and blast away. like it

[BigC]

If you have a legal permit, getting a gun is not illigal... but I think it's hard to get a permit as a Farang, anybody knows more?

It is difficult for a Farang to get a permit but not impossible, and it depends on who you know. T.I.T.

Generally you will not be allowed to carry it outside of your property. Although I think taking it to the range for practise or for overhaul is OK.

what if u shoot someone with an unlisecensed fire arm., i mean an intruder??????

[BigC]

Of the farangland referances - I understand that 'measured' force will not incur legal redress being carried out against you - excessive or premeditated use of force is a problem.

Shooting a thief running away from your house is a problem - shooting him in the legs as he approached you is not a problem - I believe in the later case the householder said in court, "...I discharged the weapon - both barrels as I feared for my life and wanted to make the weapon safe as his came towards me, it was an accident that the barrel of the gun was lined up with his legs..." the defence was accepted.

Shooting someone in the back is clearly revenge farang courts don't like that.

With regard to Thai law and intruders - I read on here (Issan forum?) about a case were someone was having a problem with a Thai man at the boarder of a man's property - the Thai police said that if the offender entered the property the owner could defend himself and his property using whatever was close to hand. (As a remember...)

Shooting a thief, well, I suppose one should ask the papers of this guy and see "Profession : THIEF" written on them ?

Or maybe the guy has a lot of items stolen to you on his arms and is fleeing ?

I think that more often someone is "a thief" when the "owner" does not like the color of his skin ...

Like in the US, where blacks are all theives and killers that need to be hanged at the first tall tree near ?

Entering someone's property is not a crime per se, maybe the door bell is no more functional, heu, but to me (and a lot of others), shooting at someone without reason is !

Cowboys should be shooting the indians that they did not kill already, in their country ...

Others could exercise their abilities in the schools and universities of one famous country, but please, let Thailand in peace !

what are u on. shall we just open our houses not bother putting locks on the doors and let people walk through our houses as free as they like incase it affends people by the colour of thier skin. cookoo. may in alice in wonderland ok but in the real world. people that are in your house black white red yellow or even green, going through your stuff. or even trying to rape u might be consdired a theif or a rapest. i don;t think that it is racsime to shoot or pretect your self again someone or some people like that.

what do u eat can i have some.

[BigC]

This is not about American law, or what goes on in the US. Neither is this about people entering ones house because the doorbell is broken. People here are talking about someone entering their house and stealing their stuff here in Thailand. Ask the girl whose room was broken into and she was raped in her own bed if it had anything to do with the color of his skin or if she had the right to defend herself.

As far as I know, if someone breaks into a person's house in the middle of the night the owner has the right to defend themselves if they feel threatened. This is what we are talking about.

Sorry, I did not see the word "rapist" before, I thought it was about theives, or presumed so ...

Shooting "intruders" is the subject here, or it is what I understood, and I still think that intrusion is not a crime.

Intrusion doest NOT mean "breaking in one's house", it could mean entering the garden to fetch a lost balloon, as is a theif the child who intrudes to steal apples from your trees !

And I do NOT think it is suitable to shoot "intruders", sorry if this is not your opinion, it is mine and I know a lot of people who surely would agree.

If in Texas anyone has the right to kill someone setting foot on one's ground, it is good for them there, I do not think it is a "law" suitable for Thailand.

And, as I understand it is a crime to shoot (and kill) indiscriminately here, I would petition for this kind of offender NOT to be put to death because I am against this kind of "punishment" too !

as far as i am conserned. someone is in my house stealing. if i shoot them in the leg then they live to steel your stuff another day. you shoot them in the head. case closed!

[SamuiJens]

Guns are the root to trouble, in todays society! A good old baseball bat, whould be the natural object to use , IN MY OPINION!

[angiud]

I didn't know so many people in TV ready to be so violent. Baseball bat, shot in the head and not in the leg, and so over. I' really, really astonished. I think we should reflect a little bit more about this.

[RedneckHippie]

This has nothing to do with Thailand, but some years ago two pf my friends caught a burgeler breaking into their house in Saigon (now Ho Chi Minh city). They trussed him up, and dropped him down a dry well outside their house. Kept him there for 3 days. When they let him out, they told him to tell all his friends that anyone who tried to break into their house would be thrown down into that well, this time permanently. They were there for 2 more years, and never had another break in.

That is a great story, that sure would scare the heck outa bad guys. However I am always scared of a similar situation. You beat the tar out of a robber but let him live. He eventually comes back for revenge and you succumb to him that time.

This is a moral question/scenerio I've been asking myself for a long time. I greatly value human life and am hardly ever in favor of the death of another, but I'm not sure if I would kill a robber simply to defend the future of myself and family, if he were ever to return.

What would you all do? Spare the life of the robber, and hope that he will respect your mercy enough to never return, or end all doubt in your mind and dispatch of him.

[Dingojoe]

This is not about American law, or what goes on in the US. Neither is this about people entering ones house because the doorbell is broken. People here are talking about someone entering their house and stealing their stuff here in Thailand. Ask the girl whose room was broken into and she was raped in her own bed if it had anything to do with the color of his skin or if she had the right to defend herself.

As far as I know, if someone breaks into a person's house in the middle of the night the owner has the right to defend themselves if they feel threatened. This is what we are talking about.

Sorry, I did not see the word "rapist" before, I thought it was about theives, or presumed so ...

Shooting "intruders" is the subject here, or it is what I understood, and I still think that intrusion is not a crime.

Intrusion doest NOT mean "breaking in one's house", it could mean entering the garden to fetch a lost balloon, as is a theif the child who intrudes to steal apples from your trees !

And I do NOT think it is suitable to shoot "intruders", sorry if this is not your opinion, it is mine and I know a lot of people who surely would agree.

If in Texas anyone has the right to kill someone setting foot on one's ground, it is good for them there, I do not think it is a "law" suitable for Thailand.

And, as I understand it is a crime to shoot (and kill) indiscriminately here, I would petition for this kind of offender NOT to be put to death because I am against this kind of "punishment" too !

Senario

You are waken at 3am in the morning by a crack down stairs in your lounge room, your cats on your bed or the dog was barking but now stopped, you get up suspecting nothing but need to make sure, you go down stairs quietly and put the kitchen light on and 3 young guys are going through your stuff, What do you do???

better still what do they do???

You have seen them, they get scared and run away? or maybe you need to run back up stairs.

but what if they all pull knives, even if they dont want to use the knife they just need the knife for show to scare you. Now you see the knife, you start shaking, your life is in danger, these guys are Burmese workers, from a building site been watching your house after work every night since they started building that house around the corner.

Many things can happen and mostly depends on how scared you are and how scared they are., or how nasty they are, maybe they just leave, maybe they stab you and leave, maybe they stab you to death and leave.

regardless of the many senarios dont you think you need to be armed with something, if they have a knife and you have a knife your both going to be injured its the way knife fights end up.

you need to think about what you will do WHEN you get robbed, not if, WHEN.

I want to know what you are going to do when you get robbed, or do you lock your self in your room, do you have kids in the other room??

these are real circumstances that we must all face in this country, when police are not available and are on the take.

[Dingojoe]

This has nothing to do with Thailand, but some years ago two pf my friends caught a burgeler breaking into their house in Saigon (now Ho Chi Minh city). They trussed him up, and dropped him down a dry well outside their house. Kept him there for 3 days. When they let him out, they told him to tell all his friends that anyone who tried to break into their house would be thrown down into that well, this time permanently. They were there for 2 more years, and never had another break in.

That is a great story, that sure would scare the heck outa bad guys. However I am always scared of a similar situation. You beat the tar out of a robber but let him live. He eventually comes back for revenge and you succumb to him that time.

This is a moral question/scenerio I've been asking myself for a long time. I greatly value human life and am hardly ever in favor of the death of another, but I'm not sure if I would kill a robber simply to defend the future of myself and family, if he were ever to return.

What would you all do? Spare the life of the robber, and hope that he will respect your mercy enough to never return, or end all doubt in your mind and dispatch of him.

I think in my own country, it may not be nessessary to kill someone, as they wll go to jail for a long time and probably not seek revenge, most robbers in my country know this - do the crime do the time.

But we are in Thailand with little law, it is a good question, but i think if you realy sit down and think about killing someone even though it maybe in self defence or protection of property and family, it will be something that will trouble you your whole life.

Therefore i would spare the life of a robber, BUT i would like to have the option to be able to protect myself to the fullest, and have the law on my side in doing so. Seems the Thai law is in my favour with protecting myself as people on this forum have said, but I would not like to be the TEST CASE.

[Bagwan]

The advice that I was given by an Inspector of the South African Police when I collected by firearm licence was to shoot any intruder, irrespective of race. Then to fire a second shot into the ceiling. Your contention that your first shot was a warning and the second in self defence will be accepted. Furthermore, if the intruder manages to crawl away from your property, drag him/her back onto it. I believe that BiB would take a similar stance.

[MengWan]

I think most people here are talking about people coming into their house. I think you are wilfully misreading the subject, frankly. And in doing so attempting to change the focus of the discussion to something completely unrelated by bringing up the US etc.

Someone has asked about the law in Thailand. Do you know what that law is?

Sorry, but you are wrong !

The first line of the first message of this thread is :

In Texas you can shoot and kill intruders on your private property even if they are unarmed.

(Texas >>> US ?)

Then, farther, I read :

I want a 2nd opinion before I put someone down who was walking around my house at night

(walking around / breaking in ?)

To my knowledge, a "private property" is not exclusively a house, it includes "the grounds" around the house, how to break in "a house" without intruding the "garden" first if the assault is not airborne -parachutist ?

I am indeed (still !) against possession of a "gun" by an ordinary citizen, like a vast majority of europeans because I understand that shooting is not "the end" of problems but the beginning of them.

I see (and understand) that this opinion is not welcomed by you, I am sorry about it but I would not change it because of that ...

NB: I have read the "gun law" in Thailand and, given my position, do not have the risk of infringing any article of it, I even never gave (Christmas) any "toy-gun" to any child during my 30 years of relations with Thailand ...

[Dingojoe]

I think most people here are talking about people coming into their house. I think you are wilfully misreading the subject, frankly. And in doing so attempting to change the focus of the discussion to something completely unrelated by bringing up the US etc.

Someone has asked about the law in Thailand. Do you know what that law is?

Sorry, but you are wrong !

The first line of the first message of this thread is :

In Texas you can shoot and kill intruders on your private property even if they are unarmed.

(Texas >>> US ?)

Then, farther, I read :

I want a 2nd opinion before I put someone down who was walking around my house at night

(walking around / breaking in ?)

To my knowledge, a "private property" is not exclusively a house, it includes "the grounds" around the house, how to break in "a house" without intruding the "garden" first if the assault is not airborne -parachutist ?

I am indeed (still !) against possession of a "gun" by an ordinary citizen, like a vast majority of europeans because I understand that shooting is not "the end" of problems but the beginning of them.

I see (and understand) that this opinion is not welcomed by you, I am sorry about it but I would not change it because of that ...

NB: I have read the "gun law" in Thailand and, given my position, do not have the risk of infringing any article of it, I even never gave (Christmas) any "toy-gun" to any child during my 30 years of relations with Thailand ...

So please tell us what would you do if someone in the middle of the night was robbing your house?

And you woke up and accidently cornered them or confronted them.

We are definately not talking about a small fragile coloured kid looking for his / her ball.

Its 2am in the morning and they are down stairs stealing everything you own.

[BigC]

I didn't know so many people in TV ready to be so violent. Baseball bat, shot in the head and not in the leg, and so over. I' really, really astonished. I think we should reflect a little bit more about this.

yeah i know i forgot to add a shovel for afters

[MengWan]

I didn't know so many people in TV ready to be so violent. Baseball bat, shot in the head and not in the leg, and so over. I' really, really astonished. I think we should reflect a little bit more about this.

+1

[MengWan]

So please tell us what would you do if someone in the middle of the night was robbing your house?

And you woke up and accidently cornered them or confronted them.

We are definately not talking about a small fragile coloured kid looking for his / her ball.

Its 2am in the morning and they are down stairs stealing everything you own.

First, my house (euh, my wife's in fact) has only one floor ...

I would awake promptly, since I have a "light sleep", and make so much noise ... burglars usually do not like noise, that would awake all the "soi dogs" and bring the security guard which is 150m away (I hope so ...).

I (generally) understand what I read, and it was written intruders, without specifying all the exclusions you were evidently thinking of, so I do have an excuse in bringing the fact that intruding (to me) does not deserves the death penalty !

And, as I told already, being unarmed I would be unable to kill anyone to "protect my property" and I am happy with that because life is more important to me than "property", even the life of intruders !

Ah, I almost forgot to tell (@BigC), I eat usually local food (my best being chicken-satay) and sometimes cook myself some pizza, or golombkis (polish stuffed cubbage) if I can't find a good camembert to eat with a baguette ...

Edited May 9, 2008 by MengWan

[toptuan]

The question that the thread title asks is irrelevant in Thailand. It's born of a farang still wearing western-tinted glasses.

Thailand is not governed by laws as you may be used to in the West. It is a society governed by cultural consensus and by who you know. The hundreds of TV threads and news items about people (Thai and farang) with (or without) connections getting away (or not getting away) with murder are there for the reviewing.

Guilt or innocence is based on a whole host of complicated issues of status, connections, and public sentiment at the time of the incident. And these incidents range from fairly minor fender-bender traffic accidents involving foreigners to heinous murderous attacks on a crowd of people by hi-so Thais.

Therefore, before you bonk an intruder, first be sure you have a Thai friend in high places. THAT'S what counts HERE.

Edited May 9, 2008 by toptuan

[highdiver]

it seemed an intresting topic so while on a different matter i told the local prosecutor about this thread. and asked his remarks.

Thai law on the contrary to some western countries does not define "my house is my castle" as such you are not allowed to shoot anyone invading your house.

the only time you can you use deadly force and not just a gun it can be any type of arms...is when confronted by a life threatning situation and for self defense.

[angiud]

I didn't know so many people in TV ready to be so violent. Baseball bat, shot in the head and not in the leg, and so over. I' really, really astonished. I think we should reflect a little bit more about this.

yeah i know i forgot to add a shovel for afters

mmmm... Somebody need this avatar???

[Cuban]

I think I have read a similar thread in this forum before -> KPN = wild west?

Just have to remember to put his prints all over the gun.

Thai police investigators are not that stupid - they do swab the hands and clothes of people suspected of involvment in gun-crime for residual evidence of burnt gun powder marks or the lack there of.

But in your situation there will be no power on the purp's hand as the gun was not fired by him while alive. Don't you think Thai's have seen CSI as well?

Also as a farang you are likely to want a nice clean shiny Beretta, wheres as your average Thai street shooting is carried out with a homemade pistol that is generally made to fire a single shotgun cartridge, something to consider if planting a weapon.

as far as i am conserned. someone is in my house stealing. if i shoot them in the leg then they live to steel your stuff another day. you shoot them in the head. case closed!

Unfortunately it is not your place to dump the body and consider the matter closed, the cost of living in civilization (even Thailand) is playing by the rules. There are ways to bend those rules but do so in a way that appears to conform with those rules. If you accidently kill the person you then need to make every effort to revive and safe them - evidence of chest compressions and mouth to mouth, phone medical services before police etc.

I like the comment by Chris rock, guns don't kill people - bullets do! Make each round cost $4,000 - then people would think before bustin' a cap....

On the subject of guns in Thailand !: www.thailandqa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3817

[Gatorade]

it seemed an intresting topic so while on a different matter i told the local prosecutor about this thread. and asked his remarks.

Thai law on the contrary to some western countries does not define "my house is my castle" as such you are not allowed to shoot anyone invading your house.

the only time you can you use deadly force and not just a gun it can be any type of arms...is when confronted by a life threatning situation and for self defense.

Be assured that anyone in my house whom I consider shouldn't be there i.e. after 'lights out" will be deemed confrontational/life threatening and my interpretation of self defense will be applied. Whatever the outcome I will always be in a self defense situation.

[BigC]

I think I have read a similar thread in this forum before -> KPN = wild west?

Just have to remember to put his prints all over the gun.

Thai police investigators are not that stupid - they do swab the hands and clothes of people suspected of involvment in gun-crime for residual evidence of burnt gun powder marks or the lack there of.

But in your situation there will be no power on the purp's hand as the gun was not fired by him while alive. Don't you think Thai's have seen CSI as well?

Also as a farang you are likely to want a nice clean shiny Beretta, wheres as your average Thai street shooting is carried out with a homemade pistol that is generally made to fire a single shotgun cartridge, something to consider if planting a weapon.

as far as i am conserned. someone is in my house stealing. if i shoot them in the leg then they live to steel your stuff another day. you shoot them in the head. case closed!

Unfortunately it is not your place to dump the body and consider the matter closed, the cost of living in civilization (even Thailand) is playing by the rules. There are ways to bend those rules but do so in a way that appears to conform with those rules. If you accidently kill the person you then need to make every effort to revive and safe them - evidence of chest compressions and mouth to mouth, phone medical services before police etc.

I like the comment by Chris rock, guns don't kill people - bullets do! Make each round cost $4,000 - then people would think before bustin' a cap....

On the subject of guns in Thailand !: www.thailandqa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3817

yes like i am going to give mouth to mouth to someone i might have shot for stealing. let him bleed.give him time to think about what he has done before he meets his maker

[BigC]

I didn't know so many people in TV ready to be so violent. Baseball bat, shot in the head and not in the leg, and so over. I' really, really astonished. I think we should reflect a little bit more about this.

yeah i know i forgot to add a shovel for afters

mmmm... Somebody need this avatar???

do u feel lucky

[BigC]

So please tell us what would you do if someone in the middle of the night was robbing your house?

And you woke up and accidently cornered them or confronted them.

We are definately not talking about a small fragile coloured kid looking for his / her ball.

Its 2am in the morning and they are down stairs stealing everything you own.

First, my house (euh, my wife's in fact) has only one floor ...

I would awake promptly, since I have a "light sleep", and make so much noise ... burglars usually do not like noise, that would awake all the "soi dogs" and bring the security guard which is 150m away (I hope so ...).

I (generally) understand what I read, and it was written intruders, without specifying all the exclusions you were evidently thinking of, so I do have an excuse in bringing the fact that intruding (to me) does not deserves the death penalty !

And, as I told already, being unarmed I would be unable to kill anyone to "protect my property" and I am happy with that because life is more important to me than "property", even the life of intruders !

Ah, I almost forgot to tell (@BigC), I eat usually local food (my best being chicken-satay) and sometimes cook myself some pizza, or golombkis (polish stuffed cubbage) if I can't find a good camembert to eat with a baguette ...

i bet u r a burglers best friend. someone that is unarmed and dosn;t value thier own life. if u don;t care about your property can i have it before a theif takes it. make be u take your life for granted. one of the most important things in life is shelter.don;t u think that your poperty is needs a little more care.