Thai Ladies Overseas And Their Friends

[stroll]

It is not being snobby, it is simply being careful.

It would be foolish, indeed too ofen it proves to be foolish, to start a friendship or expect a friendship simply on the basis of a shared nationality.

No apologies necessary, I think I get your drift. But these (justified) precautions often cloud our appreciation of other 'humans', I'd be glad to be able to share a joke without being under suspicion of having other motives.

Anyway, mai pen rai.

[Doctor John]

Yes class comes into it (I have said as much) and yes as Mango states above the fact that many (a considerable number) of Thai/Foreigner relationships started in bars and or prostitution is an issue.

So you are pretty much out on a limb and quite lonely?

I am also interested in your assumption that a considerable ammount of Thai/Farang relationships started in a bar.

As you and your Middle class wife do not associate with such people, how would you know?

Whilst they are enjoying themselves at the party, you are in a taxi home, ( Or do you have a driver )?

[Doctor John]

Educated in the United States and from a large Chinese Thai Business family i doubt that very much, but hey who knows?

There is a certain snobbery amongst farangs posting on Thai related forums.

" My wife is Thai Chinese " is an often used phrase.

It is usually related to an assumption, that people do not associate Thai chinese with poverty or prostitution.

Tell that to the Thai Chinese girls in the brothels of Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai.

Many posters in Thai related forums use the ' Thai Chinese ' card, as a form of absolution, a form of self assurance.

Is a man that has fallen in love with a bargirl a lesser man than a man that fell in love with a lawyer?

We are all human beings. We are all dead a long time.

[GuestHouse]

Dr. John,

I trust you are both happy and comfortable with the choices you have made.

If you are then there is absolutely no need to be concerned with the choices other people make.

My wife and I, like the rest of us, choose our friends. We choose people we can relate to.

Simple as that.

And as simple as this:

Is a man that has fallen in love with a bargirl a lesser man than a man that fell in love with a lawyer?

The point is no whether a man is a lesser man for having married a bar girl. The point is "A lawyer is more socially acceptable than a bar girl".

(Although I will accept lawyers are a particular form of parasite in their own right )

It is no good blaming me, or anyone else for that fact of life.

For example, I am expected to socialise with clients and to entertain them as part of my work and indeed the expection that I am to promote my employer's best intrests - you can call it part of the company marketting. Entertainment is governed by corporate policy and extends to dinners, nights out at art events and events run by the Siam Society among others. My wife and the wives of other members of our staff and of course the wives of our clients attend these events.

Would you expect (expect not desire) two wives to be received in the same manner if one where educated middle class and the other an uneducated bar girl?

Perhaps you would.

But, class, background and education are extremely important. you are fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

[Doctor John]

.

For example, I am expected to socialise with clients and to entertain them as part of my work and indeed the expection that I am to promote my employer's best intrests - you can call it part of the company marketting. Entertainment is governed by corporate policy and extends to dinners, nights out at art events and events run by the Siam Society among others. My wife and the wives of other members of our staff and of course the wives of our clients attend these events.

Would you expect (expect not desire) two wives to be received in the same manner if one where educated middle class and the other an uneducated bar girl?

Perhaps you would.

But, class, background and education are extremely important. you are fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

And if your employer married a Bargirl ?

And if your best customer married a Bargirl ?

Do you question the Clients wives before you take on a client?

Maybe your High class wife made a mistake in marrying an employee, she should have married your boss and paymaster.

Much more social status.

Good luck anyway.

[Flummoxed]

The point is "A lawyer is more socially acceptable than a bar girl"

Why? I could have a far more entertaining, fun, and often intelligent chat with a bar girl than I could with a lawyer, who I find are usually rather drab when sinking a beer. At least they get me dancing

I find it much more fulfilling to set an example to snobs and give all people at least one chance to be my friend. You however, only exhaserbate these outdated attitudes by pandering to them IMHO.

This is going to run and run... but we might as well agree to disagree, suffice it to say that on this point, I don't like the cut of yer jib old boy.

Like I said, no ill will intended

Credit to Stickman's website for the following excerpt:-

Grandma Stick says: For any Thai woman walking in public with a farang, irrespective of the status of the relationship, she will already be seen as sullied goods by many Thai people. For many Thai women, if they knew that the guy only wanted to be friends, and nothing more, she would not risk her reputation by being "just friends" which has a potential downside, but maybe not a great upside.

You can't tell me that this is an acceptable attitude.

[Richard W]

And I thought this thread might end up discussing whether Tutsiwarrior's wife would end up taking a menial job like her friends'! My experience relates to permanent relocation to outside Thailand, so may well not be applicable to Tutsi's case.

[mango]

Credit to Stickman's website for the following excerpt:-

Grandma Stick says: For any Thai woman walking in public with a farang, irrespective of the status of the relationship, she will already be seen as sullied goods by many Thai people. For many Thai women, if they knew that the guy only wanted to be friends, and nothing more, she would not risk her reputation by being "just friends" which has a potential downside, but maybe not a great upside.

You can't tell me that this is an acceptable attitude.

And you believe the crap you read on a crap site

Cheers Mango

[Flummoxed]

Regardless of what you think of Stickman, you cannot deny that the attitudes highlighted here are very real.

Consider this... You take your Thai wife to the West and everyone you meet assumes you purchased her from an internet website, or automatically assumed that she is a whore and only with you for money. Would you accept that from your peers? Your friends? Your family? Your collegues? From anybody, for that matter?

[Flummoxed]

I won't add anymore replies to this thread because it's just a waste of time. Snobs are snobs. Ignorant types will remain ignorant.

[GuestHouse]

And social rules are social rules.

[Lourens]

The only people that were shunned from social gatherings were those involved in illegal bussines which in Saudi Arabia is very serious. We enjoyed our stay there and without the good people of the Thai embassy in Riyadh, it would have not been possible to stay there for as long as we did. 

So you did not drink any "sid" then?

Drinking sid was unavoidable. In fact it was a neccesity sometimes just to make you forget what a load of crap you have to deal with everyday.

[tutsiwarrior]

richard w...my wife is not allowed to work in Bahrain as her resident visa is based upon 'housewife' status. Her friends are expat thai workers with work permits and etc obtained by their employers.

Odd that the issue of snobbery has become predominate in this thread...can't be helped, I suppose. In my original post I indicated that her previous group of friends were married to falang expat professionals, ie., they didn't work...they just hung out together to cook thai food, play cards and etc. I never said nothing about their class background. Quite a mixture from what I observed. The present group are all 'working class' presumably and the associated social milieu will vary accordingly...

[JimmyGreaves]

'And social rules are social rules. '

Social rules are not fixed in concrete, they are different all over the world.

You'd be surprsied if you take your blinkers off how good it is to contribute to this life by getting to know and being friends with all walks of society. Unity in diversity. No wonder the world is a topsy turvy place, to many people with closed minds.

[Boon Mee]

Educated in the United States and from a large Chinese Thai Business family i doubt that very much, but hey who knows?

There is a certain snobbery amongst farangs posting on Thai related forums.

" My wife is Thai Chinese " is an often used phrase.

It is usually related to an assumption, that people do not associate Thai chinese with poverty or prostitution.

Tell that to the Thai Chinese girls in the brothels of Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai.

Many posters in Thai related forums use the ' Thai Chinese ' card, as a form of absolution, a form of self assurance.

Is a man that has fallen in love with a bargirl a lesser man than a man that fell in love with a lawyer?

We are all human beings. We are all dead a long time.

Don't know 'bout y'all but speaking from experience here, I'm proud that my wife is not Thai/Chinese. 3/4 Thai & 1/4 Burmese, she's got none of those money-grubbing, snobbish attitudes so frequently found in the Thai/Chinese.

To change the subject slightly - a lot of the misconceptions posted here by farang would be laughed at by a Thai simply because they "suss out" each other in a New York milisecond and adapt to the social situation.

Thai society is barely understood by a westener...

[A. BOOZER]

It does seem to me that a lot of people equate un-educated to bar girls and vice-versa, this is not necessarily so.

[wolf5370]

As I've said in many such threads before, my wife is (was?) what could loosly be termed as upper middle class (she does not accept hi-so as it carries conatations of buuble-headed socialite which she certainly isn't). She is also 100% Thai - no Chinese to her knowledge - though she is very light skinned.

We have many expat friends and their Thai (and one Phi) wives. Sure, some were prostitutes; some were hotel workers and some were wives and mothers (divorcees) and others worked in offices and the like. Most either do not work now, help their husbands or work in restaurants (UK - where we live when not in LOS).

When I first brought her to the UK for a long 3 year stint, she went to college to improve her English. There she met many Thai girls as well as other foreigners. She had friends from Egypt, China (Hong Kong), Sri Lanka and Europe.

Someone said above that Thai's read eachother like books. I could not agree more. In fact several of my wife's Thai friends later said to her that they were worried when approaching her as they thought she might not like them. When asked why, they said (several of them at different times I might add), that it was because they were lower class than her (using Thai terminology of course).

My wife has never been a snob, but she does choose her friends carefully. She bases it on deeds, which I approve, and an instinct (which, although seems well honed, also seems a little unfair to me). Some friends turned out to be deceiptful or not-too-friendly over time and have fallen by the way side. However, many are dear friends today.

It interests me how the other girls recognised my wife as a certain class. Sure she was dressed well, but so were these girls (they had English husbands and could now afford to look good). Some were dripping in gold, others not. My wife wears nice jewlery, but not the ostentatious overly large stuff you often see on Thai girls new to stuff. She wears a decent watch, and a few jeweled rings. Nothing overtly wealthy looking. Still they could spot her from a mile off. Amazing.

I LOS, she has a power of command. At checkin at the airport, Thai Air have opened check in desks for her (to save her queueing!). Once a passport copntrol clerk came out of the office a took her (and me) through control (from the back of a long line) and checked our passports etc at the little office instead. Took 5 minutes and no queueing. In shops she gets the attention of the sales people without a word. Don't get me wrong, she does not jump queues (like some do - especially at banks and post offices), Thais just seem to home in on her. It embarasses her sometimes. She is not famous. She is not from a well known family. She has never been on TV nor in the newspaper. No one would recognise her photo unless they knew her personally. Wierd. Still, never look a gift horse in the cake-hole!

[alleypanda]

If I didn't get along with an ex bargirl because I dont have any clue what she talking about ,I have no interested in cards or talking about how much gold I have, how much jewelry I own So let it be .

I met a few that so much into how much money my husband give me or how much properties I have back in thailand.

call me a snop that I dont think i can't have that kind of person as a friend. Friend is difficult to find, people you meet along the way are easy and I dont call them'friend'

[wolf5370]

AlleyPanda,

I agree with you. People like those you described are too materialistic and many educated Thais would find their company boring or rude. However, not all girls from lower class backgrounds act this way. Many of our friends from these classes (sorry for the description, but used for clarity at an attempt to not be insulting) also do not talk about their properties, their wealth or play cards all night.

We do know people like those you mention and we avoid them, but are polite as they are usually friends of friends; this is not snobbery, but a lack of overlap of interests and therefore are incompatable as friends. Even their card games are very simplistic and based on pure luck rather than skill; bordem incarnate!

There are bores from every walk of life I assure you; you miss out on a wealth of friends by discriminating on class, race, age, sex or creed.

[Totster]

And social rules are social rules.

I don't understand the need to apply rules to a social environment...

totster

[RamdomChances]

I'm proud that my wife is not Thai/Chinese. 3/4 Thai & 1/4 Burmese, she's got none of those money-grubbing, snobbish attitudes so frequently found in the Thai/Chinese.

What is it some people have against Thai/Chinese (not just you Bon Mee i've seen the same sort of thing a few times), my wife does happen to be part chinese, I dont think I've ever mentioned it on here cos I'v never really though its relevent. I just think of her as thai.

I happen to live in a part of thailand where virtually everyone is part chineese, they are all farily normal people,farmers, buisinessmen, laboures,electricians ect all doing the same sort of stuff as elsewhere, you have your good and bad same as with everywhere else.

Strange how we all have our pre-conseptions, some its BG's some get hung up on education/class and some it apperes race.

[drummer]

Indeed .... Ive have known some very rich people (old money) to play cards and talk about their bank acounts. And I've known some who would rather get a tooth pulled. I went to school with people (mostly very rich) from all over the world, but largely Asia. (Including Thailand)

From my experience, when it boils down to it, the people follow the 'social rules' because (in no particular order)

(1) somewhere they like the feeling better than other people

(2) don't want to damage their reputation

(3) just never really thought about it

Many are jai dee. Many donate money, time because it is a good thing to do. I am not trying to diss anyone here. I have some very, very good friends who this applies to. I'm just saying that this is my experience. Its in human nature. I'm not down on anyone.

Someone mentioned hanging out with sex tourists etc... There is a very real difference between not wanting to hang out with a group of people who have chosen an activity and those from general social status.

I don't want to hang out with rapists. That doesn't mean that I don't hang out with men, because most rapists are men.

[chonabot]

If I didn't get along with an ex bargirl because I dont have any clue what she talking about ,I have no interested in cards or talking about how much gold I have, how much jewelry I own So let it be .

I met a few that so much into how much money my husband give me or how much properties I have back in thailand.

call me a snop that I dont think i can't have that kind of person as a friend. Friend is difficult to find, people you meet along the way are easy and I dont call them'friend'

Generalisation , many snobs are also over-materialistic.

[GuestHouse]

Wolf Tells us, and I do not dispute what he says

I LOS, she has a power of command. At checkin at the airport, Thai Air have opened check in desks for her (to save her queueing!). Once a passport copntrol clerk came out of the office a took her (and me) through control (from the back of a long line) and checked our passports etc at the little office instead. Took 5 minutes and no queueing. In shops she gets the attention of the sales people without a word. Don't get me wrong, she does not jump queues (like some do - especially at banks and post offices), Thais just seem to home in on her. It embarasses her sometimes. She is not famous. She is not from a well known family. She has never been on TV nor in the newspaper. No one would recognise her photo unless they knew her personally. Wierd. Still, never look a gift horse in the cake-hole!

It is not such a leap of imagination to see that the reverse applies, where class or percieved class opens doors, it can surely close doors.

That is how life is.

[chonabot]

I happen to live in a part of thailand where virtually everyone is part chineese,

Hong Kong is in Thailand ?

[chonabot]

Wolf Tells us, and I do not dispute what he says

I LOS, she has a power of command. At checkin at the airport, Thai Air have opened check in desks for her (to save her queueing!). Once a passport copntrol clerk came out of the office a took her (and me) through control (from the back of a long line) and checked our passports etc at the little office instead. Took 5 minutes and no queueing. In shops she gets the attention of the sales people without a word. Don't get me wrong, she does not jump queues (like some do - especially at banks and post offices), Thais just seem to home in on her. It embarasses her sometimes. She is not famous. She is not from a well known family. She has never been on TV nor in the newspaper. No one would recognise her photo unless they knew her personally. Wierd. Still, never look a gift horse in the cake-hole!

It is not such a leap of imagination to see that the reverse applies, where class or percieved class opens doors, it can surely close doors.

That is how life is.

It is, but the door becomes closed to many people that may be better suited to walk through them , this is called prejudice.

It is how life is , but it is not always right.

Mai Bpen Rai..........

[RamdomChances]

I happen to live in a part of thailand where virtually everyone is part chineese,

Hong Kong is in Thailand ?

not unless they've moved it

[meom]

The only people that were shunned from social gatherings were those involved in illegal bussines which in Saudi Arabia is very serious. We enjoyed our stay there and without the good people of the Thai embassy in Riyadh, it would have not been possible to stay there for as long as we did. 

So you did not drink any "sid" then?

Drinking sid was unavoidable. In fact it was a neccesity sometimes just to make you forget what a load of crap you have to deal with everyday.

Couldn't agree more. Sid would do wonders for some of the whining expats in LOS.

[chonabot]

Email me a few gallons please...........

[GuestHouse]

I happen to live in a part of thailand where virtually everyone is part chineese

This does not suprise me, over sixty percent of Thai registered as born in Bangkok have one or both parents who are ethnic Chinese.

I believe the figure for Kampangphet is higher.