Government To Hasten Introducing E85 Gasohol In 3-6 Months

[PeaceBlondie]

The politicians, and the money elite, fool us sometimes into thinking that THEY control the economy of Thailand. No, the economy controls Thailand, and its name is ruthless, globalized capitalism.

[ThaiAdventure]

Gasoline of 95 octane is sold at 39.59 baht/litre at Bangkok stations versus 35.59 baht/litre for E10 and 33.59 baht/litre of E20, thanks to lower government duties and surcharges to attract motorists to use the biofuels.The Energy Ministry aims to get E85 to a 60 percent share of annual gasoline demand by 2011, which stood at 7.34 billion litres last year, Poonpirom said.

Sales of E10 rose three times to 1.76 billion litres in 2007 from 2005, while sales of 95-octane gasoline fell by half to 1.1 billion litres in the same period, the Energy Ministry data shows.

Thailand imported 798,408 barrels of crude per day in 2007, 3.3 percent less than in 2006 due to demand for cheaper biofuel and natural gas.

Poonpirom said General Motors , Ford Motor and Volvo -- all small players in the Thai auto market -- would import their complete-built cars to Thailand in 3-5 months and would switch their locally-assembled cars to use E85 in 18 months.

Full Story Here

It seems that this move to E85 was in fact planned a while ago and part of a wider plan to switch to alternative fuels (like natural gas) . Because of current costs in oil, timescales were simply accelerated. I revise my earlier cynicism as it is indeed looking like a well planned road map to reduce dependency on oil imports. I still can't help thinking though that they may just be switching from one dependancy to another (in terms of natural gas that is).

[tracker]

Plus:

In brazil they do not destroy forest for the production of ethanol. They do however, destroy forest for biodiesel...

There is a looooot of land idle in isaan and more areas. Thailand has more than enough land to make food, ethanol, and a lot more. Where the ground is bad, other crops than sugercane can be grown. It is not a land issue!!

peaceblondie:

loss of firepower from ethanol!?? Octane from ethanol is 105... I guess there are a lot of myths out there. Big-oil infuses the rumour market to keep theirs running. There is however a small issue on mileage: if you use e85 in a normal unmodified car, it would lead to lower mileage. If the car got properly tuned, it would have more power, a lot cleaner exhaust and better mileage..... but hey, why would we wanna promote that...

galong:

The o-ring issue might be a point indeed.... replacements are cheap though.

thaddeus:

I suggest that the ethanol is best solution so far. All big changes are a hassle in the beginning. Do not forget: it WILL make thailand independent, and the pollution will be cut to almost nothing compared to now, and that would be a very big improvement!! Ofcourse, a lot of cars need to be rebuild/modified (think about the extra jobs it will create) or simply discarded. It is not the reason for saying no to such a beautiful solution.

The whole thai economy would get a big boost from going to an ethanol driven energy sector. It would also clean up the air, as said before. I've just finished an indepth study on the subject, and the potential is huge, but also big oil are doing their best to keep it down. I pray for an end on the dependence of oil, amen

Edited May 28, 2008 by tracker

[Hog Head]

The only thing well planned about this is a ill thought through solution to use up the excess ethanol production

One must note that the only E-85 car in Thailand is a newish Volvo, and you can bet that there are not sufficent of these to use even 1 of the planned filing stations.

Somchai, convinced by the subsidised price and urged on my the kid at the pump may buy E-85 until it kills his car, but it will be a long time until there are cars on the road to use this fuel.

Conversion to E-85 is not a simple matter, and if this in fact was a planned introduction, the excise tax on E-85 vehicles would have lowered a long time ago.

A classic chicken and egg question, but remember when Ford was about to introduce the E-20 Focus to take advantage of the lower excise tax long before the fuel was available. The government at that time reversed the ir position on excise as the fuel was not available. If those long term planners had any foresight at all, there would be a market for E-20 now, as competition would have made the other manufacturers jump on the bandwagon.

Thai made E-85 cars in 18 months - What a pipe dream.

Mind you the Eco cars may go down the same pipe

[ThaiAdventure]

The only thing well planned about this is a ill thought through solution to use up the excess ethanol production

One must note that the only E-85 car in Thailand is a newish Volvo, and you can bet that there are not sufficent of these to use even 1 of the planned filing stations.

Somchai, convinced by the subsidised price and urged on my the kid at the pump may buy E-85 until it kills his car, but it will be a long time until there are cars on the road to use this fuel.

Conversion to E-85 is not a simple matter, and if this in fact was a planned introduction, the excise tax on E-85 vehicles would have lowered a long time ago.

A classic chicken and egg question, but remember when Ford was about to introduce the E-20 Focus to take advantage of the lower excise tax long before the fuel was available. The government at that time reversed the ir position on excise as the fuel was not available. If those long term planners had any foresight at all, there would be a market for E-20 now, as competition would have made the other manufacturers jump on the bandwagon.

Thai made E-85 cars in 18 months - What a pipe dream.

Mind you the Eco cars may go down the same pipe

The tax lowering is in the plan from last year.

At the instruction of the Cabinet, the Ministry of Finance has come up with a new excise tax rate on standard passenger cars that meet the criteria of fuel-efficient vehicles. Starting from 1 October 2009, the excise tax for small cars will be cut from 30 percent to 17 percent. The cars eligible for the 17 percent tax rate must have an engine size of not more than 1,300 cc for gasoline engines and not more than 1,400 cc for diesel engines.

thailand.prd.go.th

[infoflexfuel]

Actually any cars with Multiport Fuel Injection system can easily convert to E85 with a Flex Fuel Kit. See www.flexfuelthailand.com

With 20 over years of experience from Brazil, cars that can run on E10 can use this kit without any other changes to the car. Thailand gasohol 91/95 are both E10 fuel.

Most cars made from 1995 can use this kit. Hondas, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, Benz, Mitsubishi etc.. No problem.

It is that easy.

[animatic]

Just curious, how many cars on the market at the moment are E85 ready?

There's the rub, most modern cars do NOT like this fuel.

And mods will not be cheap.

Lots of older ones do up to a point, can't imagine diesels like it much.

The market is not prepared.

I know my bike HATES the alcohol fuels

and it's an old Honda pretty tolerant to much abuse.

Give a year or two local makers can provide cars that will thrive on this fuel.

Between now and then?

[Plus]

A year or two? That's the time frame for importing these cars, not local production.

Bangkok Post has covered this issue in detail, with interviews and everything. No one in auto industry buys into that e85 crap. They are not going to lift a finger, let alone invest anything.

[Bard]

I wonder where the modified fuel systems and engines will be introduced

E-85 ethanol is used in engines modified to accept higher concentrations of ethanol. Such flexible-fuel vehicles (FFV) are designed to run on any mixture of gasoline or ethanol with up to 85% ethanol by volume. There are a few major differences between FFVs and non-FFVs. One is the elimination of bare magnesium, aluminum, and rubber parts in the fuel system. Another is that fuel pumps must be capable of operating with electrically conductive ethanol instead of non-conducting dielectric gasoline fuel. Fuel injection control systems have a wider range of pulse widths to injection approximately 40% more fuel. Stainless steel fuel lines, sometimes lined with plastic, and stainless steel fuel tanks in place of terne fuel tanks are used. In some cases, FFVs use acid-neutralizing motor oil. For vehicles with fuel-tank mounted fuel pumps, additional differences to prevent arcing, as well as flame arrestors positioned in the tank's fill pipe, are also sometimes used

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

All new model Hondas run on E80, just bought one

Thats unfortunate for you...they are introducing E85

Got confused, apologies. There are absolutely no cars on the Thai market as far as I know that can take E85. E20 fuels are supposed to be rolled out in the next year or so. There is an excise benefit on all new Hondas to encourage. Where this E85 capable supply of cars is supposed to come from who knows.

The Volvo X90 with V8 runs on E85, possibly other Volvo's as well.

I will never run my cars or motorbikes on ethanol mix unless I'm forced to by no supply of the real fuel. You get less milage on it, lower power and it requires heavier engines etc. Oh since they are clearing forest to make room for all the required sugarcane it screws up the environment more than it gains, so all is an economic idea.

Well why does Thailand not promote fuel efficient cars? The stupid pickups are all guzzlers, could easily replace the engines with high efficient engines. In Europe the cars are more efficient than ever, but we never benefit from those cars, because in Thailand the outdated engines are used, see Ford Focus as the perfect example...

No investment in trains, this country could save huge amounts very easy there.

Upgrade the powerlines would save the electric usage about 25% alone, but nobody cares. Introduce fuel which ruins most of the engines on the road, and letting people drive with a fuel bomb in there trunk. I donno, but it is certainly not impressive...

[PeaceBlondie]

The news article was announced in May, with deadline of 3 to 6 months. My sun dial says it is October/ How close is most of Thailand to having E85 fuel?

[Plus]

Diesel in Thailand is not clean enough for the latest European engines. You'd think that improving fuel quality to allow engines twice as now would attract government's attention, but no.

Apparently there's no money in it, businesses need to invest and everyone else just saves. Ethanol, on the other hand, creates a whole new market for a whole new set of players. Tasty.

[jackyseymour]

Just curious, how many cars on the market at the moment are E85 ready?

There's the rub, most modern cars do NOT like this fuel.

And mods will not be cheap.

Lots of older ones do up to a point, can't imagine diesels like it much.

The market is not prepared.

I know my bike HATES the alcohol fuels

and it's an old Honda pretty tolerant to much abuse.

Give a year or two local makers can provide cars that will thrive on this fuel.

Between now and then?

Exactly so. I would have to give up my Willys and my older Honda Steed, and .... have to buy brand new vehicles, thus further fuelling the motor industry, (I too abhor the SUV roadhogs by the way). Why don't they invest in the railways? Would do away with the regular motorway carnage. Beeching did away with the railways in the Uk years ago, since when was found to be a huge mistake.

But society everywhere has become more selfish. Everyone wants to travel at will in their own little metal bubble. Even the 'car sharing' idea in the Uk fell flat on it's face.

Just think! To be able to board a high speed train in Phuket and be in Bangkok in a matter of a three or four hours, rather than the same time wasted driving to the airport and hanging around for the inevitably delayed takeoff. Bliss