What Do Other Expats Do That You Hate?

[onzestan]

isabelle17 said,

but I think it's ridiculous that pidgeon English a huge complaint....

My boyfriend doesn't speak excellent English...and sometimes its easier if I say things to him in a less complicated way.

In my view speaking to your boyfriend in broken/baby English only reinforces poor language performance. Once this poor means of communication is established it is hard to break.

Interestingly the development of pidgin English, and other pidgins, came about mostly through colonialism. The new masters refused to speak the local dialect and the natives were forced to do the best they could. With poor education it was usually far from perfect.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, insisting on correct language is arrogant and demeaning.

The goal should be communication and understanding each other.

onzestan

It is a lot easier to understand someone who speaks a language well, and learners will never learn to speak well, unless they have heard the language spoken correctly on a regular basis.

And what if the other person is not interested in learning english but just to communicate.

A language tyrant is a tyrant, and where is it written that the native english speaking people have the by god given right that everybody should speak english with them. In Thailand, Thai is the national language.

And then again how many native english speakers, speak their language correctly?

onzestan

[Ulysses G.]

And what if the other person is not interested in learning english but just to communicate.

A language tyrant is a tyrant, and where is it written that the native english speaking people have the by god given right that everybody should speak english with them. In Thailand, Thai is the national language.

And then again how many native english speakers, speak their language correctly?

onzestan

Most people want to learn a language to the best of their ability or they wouldn't bother to learn it at all. The best way to do that is to listen to an educated native speakers speaking the language properly.

That goes for Thai as well as English.

[TexasRanger]

I saw an arab push a Thai guy out of the way at the door of a massage place in MBK last week, I hate that kind of arrogance.

I don't like people who shout and get excited when a Thai member of staff doesn't understand their language.

People who live here full time and can't speak Thai annoys me as well, that's just lazy.

[onzestan]

And what if the other person is not interested in learning english but just to communicate.

A language tyrant is a tyrant, and where is it written that the native english speaking people have the by god given right that everybody should speak english with them. In Thailand, Thai is the national language.

And then again how many native english speakers, speak their language correctly?

onzestan

Most people want to learn a language to the best of their ability or they wouldn't bother to learn it at all. The best way to do that is to listen to an educated native speakers speaking the language properly.

That goes for Thai as well as English.

Well then my experience is different from yours, btw I'm not native english, I have found that not many Thais, whether working in a bank, restaurant, taxi, construction etc. etc. really care about learning english correctly, they just want to go on with their lives. and others don't feel the need because their partners are German, French, Italian, Dutch etc.

Once again good communication is far more important than correct language.

onzestan

[Naam]

People who live here full time and can't speak Thai annoys me as well, that's just lazy.

people who talk rubbish like you annoy me. fortunately i hardly ever meet people like you

[Shotime]

Me, too, and I'm not real crazy about you.

[icequeen]

I totally agree with Onzestan, I am from England but don't speak 'the queens english' and don't know many people that do, most people use slang and local dialects. Why embarass someone who's english isn't all that great by speaking in a way that they can't understand?

Surely being fluent is about being able to get your meaning across even if you don't know all the correct words.

But my biggest gripe by far is westerners ignoring other westerners, what harm does a friendly smile do? I smile at most other expats i see, people in the supermarket (etc) who are clearly living here and rarely get a response it is just plain rude to ignore someone who acknowledges you.

[isabelle17]

I totally agree with Onzestan, I am from England but don't speak 'the queens english' and don't know many people that do, most people use slang and local dialects. Why embarass someone who's english isn't all that great by speaking in a way that they can't understand?

Surely being fluent is about being able to get your meaning across even if you don't know all the correct words.

But my biggest gripe by far is westerners ignoring other westerners, what harm does a friendly smile do? I smile at most other expats i see, people in the supermarket (etc) who are clearly living here and rarely get a response it is just plain rude to ignore someone who acknowledges you.

Yep, gotta agree with you on both points! Oh wait...that wasn't correct English...oops. Oh...neither was that...

The ignoring thing gets to me big time...when I first came to Thailand I was shocked at how unfriendly some expats were to other expats (or just foreigners in general). Granted, tourists can be a bit annoying...especially if they walk around without shirts on in a place where its obviously innappropriate to do so...

However, if somones smiles at you, you should smile back, whether they are an expat, thai person, etc. I have encountered way too many grumpy and unfriendly westerners! But I also have met many friendly ones as well...sadly, I think the grumpy ones are more common to encounter (well, at least for me....) I actually encounter more friendliness in the States than I do in Thailand from westerners...most Thai people are very friendly to me though (thank goodness!)

[PeaceBlondie]

I try not to judge people. It was only in my job description as an IRS officer and as a teacher.

I do object to whingers whinging about whiners who whine.

Of course, as Ulysses has said more than once here, it is silly for a native speaker to dumb down their own language, even if you cannot speak the President's English.

[icequeen]

Presidents English?? Surely the clue is in the name - English

[Chuckler]

Mainly I have issue with touritst more than expats.

the biggest issue i have with tourists is when they don't realize songkran games finish when the sun goes down. nothing pleasant about being wet at night.

[t.s]

I totally agree with Onzestan, I am from England but don't speak 'the queens english' and don't know many people that do, most people use slang and local dialects. Why embarass someone who's english isn't all that great by speaking in a way that they can't understand?

Surely being fluent is about being able to get your meaning across even if you don't know all the correct words.

But my biggest gripe by far is westerners ignoring other westerners, what harm does a friendly smile do? I smile at most other expats i see, people in the supermarket (etc) who are clearly living here and rarely get a response it is just plain rude to ignore someone who acknowledges you.

that is not the point.

Using proper english is about using proper grammar and sentece constructions as opposed to "where you go? "I go central", "What you want?" etc.

[wolf5370]

I have a friend in the UK who is married to a Tai girl. They have only been married for a year, but have been living together for about 5 years or so. He never corrects his wife's English and as a result she speaks very poor English (grammatically). She still says things like 'I happy very very". I made a point of correcting my wife, and still do ten years on (except when she's blowing her stack of course - that'd be suicidal!!!). Her English is excellent now.

I did make a point of making my voice monotone (mid tone) at first and speaking slightly slower without sounding overly derogatory. I do not need to now.

Having said this, it is one thing correcting your partner in private, its a whole different ballgame doing it to a stranger or even a friend that has not asked you to correct them.

Edited May 30, 2008 by wolf5370

[whatsoever]

I hate the expats who somehopw think they are no longer expats - in that they critisize the failings of other expats.

I have met a few and they are usualy ex civil servants - or more commonly know as usefull idiots. Petty buerocrats can be the worst due to their false sense of superiority. They are easily recognizable by thier inability to consume alchohol and morbid fear of second hand smoke!

[Zpete]

I try not to judge people. It was only in my job description as an IRS officer and as a teacher.

I do object to whingers whinging about whiners who whine.

Of course, as Ulysses has said more than once here, it is silly for a native speaker to dumb down their own language, even if you cannot speak the President's English.

Nobody would wish to speak English, which the present, president, manages to mangle.

I guess dubya's version, Engrish, is what PB calls English.

English, the Ammurican style.

English is English, the Queen's English, nothing else.

[Ulysses G.]

I try not to judge people. It was only in my job description as an IRS officer and as a teacher.

Would that include George W. Bush?

[Jandajoy]

I try not to judge people. It was only in my job description as an IRS officer and as a teacher.

I do object to whingers whinging about whiners who whine.

Of course, as Ulysses has said more than once here, it is silly for a native speaker to dumb down their own language, even if you cannot speak the President's English.

So, you do judge. Of course you do. You may maintain that you try not to but you do. It's human nature.

[Jandajoy]

I try not to judge people. It was only in my job description as an IRS officer and as a teacher.

I do object to whingers whinging about whiners who whine.

Of course, as Ulysses has said more than once here, it is silly for a native speaker to dumb down their own language, even if you cannot speak the President's English.

Nobody would wish to speak English, which the present, president, manages to mangle.

I guess dubya's version, Engrish, is what PB calls English.

English, the Ammurican style.

English is English, the Queen's English, nothing else.

Nonsense "English" - noun - is a generic term covering all variations of the original Chaucerian/Latin/French/Germanic mishmash.

There is no "Queens English" and there hasn't been since the acceptance of "common usage".

[TexasRanger]

People who live here full time and can't speak Thai annoys me as well, that's just lazy.

people who talk rubbish like you annoy me. fortunately i hardly ever meet people like you

Lucky for you eh? Tool.

[garro]

isabelle17 said,

but I think it's ridiculous that pidgeon English a huge complaint....

My boyfriend doesn't speak excellent English...and sometimes its easier if I say things to him in a less complicated way.

In my view speaking to your boyfriend in broken/baby English only reinforces poor language performance. Once this poor means of communication is established it is hard to break.

Interestingly the development of pidgin English, and other pidgins, came about mostly through colonialism. The new masters refused to speak the local dialect and the natives were forced to do the best they could. With poor education it was usually far from perfect.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, insisting on correct language is arrogant and demeaning.

The goal should be communication and understanding each other.

onzestan

We will need to disagree about this. I think speaking to somebody as if they were a moron is arrogant and demeaning and serves them a disservice. If they don't want to learn English then it is up to them, but I have more respect for people's intelligence than to speak to them in pidgin English.

I would hate for somebody to do to me and so I don't do it to anybody else. Luckily most Thais don't have this habit of turning their language into a baby form for learners. They are also usually quick to joke when somebody is speaking Thai in a childish way.

The ability to speaking in English does not need to be standard English, but it does, I believe need to be above the level of 'I go you bar' .

[Naam]

I HATE it ...

i'd hate myself if i had selected

Naam-Naam-Naam-Naam-Naam-Naam-Naam-Naam-Naam-Naam-Naam-Naam-Naam-Naam

as a nick for TV

[garro]

I have a friend in the UK who is married to a Tai girl. They have only been married for a year, but have been living together for about 5 years or so. He never corrects his wife's English and as a result she speaks very poor English (grammatically). She still says things like 'I happy very very". I made a point of correcting my wife, and still do ten years on (except when she's blowing her stack of course - that'd be suicidal!!!). Her English is excellent now.

I did make a point of making my voice monotone (mid tone) at first and speaking slightly slower without sounding overly derogatory. I do not need to now.

Having said this, it is one thing correcting your partner in private, its a whole different ballgame doing it to a stranger or even a friend that has not asked you to correct them.

I think that some westerners have their own reasons for not wanting their gfs/ wives speaking good English. I would say it is even more true for those westerners, married to Thais who live in the west, where this lack of communication ability can act as a form of control. Maybe some people ex-pats in Thailand are not really interested in developing a clear means of communication with their partner because they are not really that interested in what they say.

[coventry]

Those that Wai and haven't a clue as to why they are doing it, other than it's Thai tradition, but want to blend in. I don't do it and that's because my wife doesn't want me to. She's always telling me about the stupid farangs that Wai every thing and every body. She tells me to just Sawatdee and nod my head. This I've always done. Some farangs in their effort to blend in forget the status of when to do and not to do. I've seem farang Wai children even before the child has Waied them. Come on farang if you going to do it then learn as to when and where. Come on farang stop my missus laughing at you.

[Neeranam]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the ones who wear yellow shirts - idiots.

Or the ones that speak English with "na" at the end.

[garro]

Those that Wai and haven't a clue as to why they are doing it, other than it's Thai tradition, but want to blend in. I don't do it and that's because my wife doesn't want me to. She's always telling me about the stupid farangs that Wai every thing and every body. She tells me to just Sawatdee and nod my head. This I've always done. Some farangs in their effort to blend in forget the status of when to do and not to do. I've seem farang Wai children even before the child has Waied them. Come on farang if you going to do it then learn as to when and where. Come on farang stop my missus laughing at you.

Some of us do know the full meaning of the wai, and if it is done mindfully it is done correctly. It is not just a Thai tradition.

[Ulysses G.]

Or the ones that speak English with "na" at the end.

The yellow shirts don't bother me too much and the farangs who wai all and sundry are certainly on my list, but I have to admit that this is a very BIG one!

[Jandajoy]

I think that what tends to get my goat is when a farang assumes that just because you both happen to be foreigners, you're automatically going to hit-it-off, a sort-of "Thank goodness; you're the first friendly face I've seen all day" and then proceed to tell you their life-story and generally run the place down. I had the great misfortune to be sat next to one of these knob-jockeys on my last flight back from England. Still gives me nightmares...

On the spot.

Absolutely. I live in a remote village that we deliberately picked as there were no other Falang. But, guess what, there is one. Some Swiss bloke who pitches up for a week every year. The trouble is that all the villagers, bless em, assume that 'cos he's Falang I/we'll want to meet. Cue very embarrassing 15 minutes as we stood outside my place wondering what the heck to say to each other. I offered beer, tea, coffee but to no avail.

Could you really not find something to say to another European in a remote village in Thailand? Seems you both have a social ineptness.

Or was you trying to make a point to the villagers 'bless em' that farangs are ot so alike (especially not a village expat and a tourist!), they can't even find a word to say to each other. The Thais must have thought you was both mad.

Well I've tried to make sense of your post and I assume that you're suggesting that because I meet another European I should go beyond the acknowledgement of his existance and actually have something in common with him that would propogate social chit chat.

Answer "NO"

I'm happy to acknowledge that he exists but it doesn't mean we have anything in common, other than the colour of our skin. as it turned out there was nothing but a void between us. A black hole that I didn't feel like jumping into. Incidentally, there was and is no reason why I should.

As far as the Thais (people in the village) are concerned they weren't bothered a bit. Since the event many have said that they like to come and sit at our place 'cos we talk. (gibber is more like it as my thai is attrocious) Whereas they consider the Swiss bloke a blow in tourist that they see once a year for a week and, whilst they don't dislike him, he's called "the ghost" (my wifes' interpretation).

So there you have it. I'd suggest, and no offence meant, that you might like to re-evalluate your views on "people" and your fundamentally rascist view that like should stick with like.

Happy Christmas

[wolf5370]

(Neeranam @ 2008-05-30 19:13:01)

Or the ones that speak English with "na" at the end.

Could be worse, could be 'Wa' at the end!

(coventry @ 2008-05-30 13:11:02)

Those that Wai and haven't a clue as to why they are doing it, other than it's Thai tradition, but want to blend in. I don't do it and that's because my wife doesn't want me to. She's always telling me about the stupid farangs that Wai every thing and every body. She tells me to just Sawatdee and nod my head. This I've always done. Some farangs in their effort to blend in forget the status of when to do and not to do. I've seem farang Wai children even before the child has Waied them. Come on farang if you going to do it then learn as to when and where. Come on farang stop my missus laughing at you.

I have to admit I was a bit guilty of this at first (many moons ago). I was put straight and learnt - and mostly only wai when appropriate now. Tthough I get caught out sometimes - about a year ago an aquaintance (not quite a friend) who I knew had split with his Thai wife a while back introduced me to a girl by name. As I was talking to someone else at the time, I turned and wai'd her (thiking she was his new GF) - it was actually his daughter who was about 12ish - she was quite tall though and I wai'd before I had taken her in properly - I felt like a complete <deleted>, but there you go.

There must be many faux pas we did initially - possibly an interesting thread (that has probably been done to deah, but hey new members have new views so I'm all for recycling).

PS: What's wrong with the yellow shirt (presumeably King's golden jubilee shirt) wearing? Better than bare cheastd surely!

[Jandajoy]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the ones who wear yellow shirts - idiots.

Or the ones that speak English with "na" at the end.

YELLO SHIRTS

What on earth can you have against yellow shirts. Is this all yellow shirts or just yellowshirts with an emblem of the king? What about light blue shirts?

You're bonkers.......

No offence mind.

[garro]

It should also be remembered that some of us are expected to wear the yellow shirt as part of our school uniform.