Is It Possible To Move Into International Schools From Government Schools?

[garro]

I was just wondering about this. I am perfectly happy where I am - at least for the next few years, but I would like to maybe one day find work in an international school. I must admit that a motivating factor for this would be my son's education as I have heard that some international schools give very good deals for the children of their teachers. He is only 10 months old so I have a bit of time yet to prepare.

How could I make myself a more attractive proposition? I have a degree and have just finished a Post-Graduate Certificate in Education (but it was by distance learning). I also have a few years experience teaching in government schools in Thailand. I have heard that the international schools like to recruit from abroad, but that they sometimes make exceptions. I was thinking about finishing a masters in education, but it would be again by distance learning and very expensive. What do people think? Impossible?

[PeaceBlondie]

From what I have heard on internet forums, and from a friend who tutors international students, the upper tier is very insistent that their teachers be certified and experienced from abroad, before they come to Thailand. Exceptions are made for subject specialists, and other instances in the lower tier schools. They need very few ESL teachers (and I do mean English as a Second Language) as remedial instruction for new students only. Those ESL positions are sparse, often occupied, and poorly paid compared to the fully certified staff.

But garro, once you have both PGCE and an M.Ed. and experience as a tertiary instructor, you should be far more employable. You could get into a lower tier private school, a good EP program, etc. Oh, and speaking of half-Irish babies, did I tell you I have a new grandchild named Aoibhean? Is that a girl's name?

[TEFLMike]

From what I have heard on internet forums, and from a friend who tutors international students, the upper tier is very insistent that their teachers be certified and experienced from abroad, before they come to Thailand. Exceptions are made for subject specialists, and other instances in the lower tier schools. They need very few ESL teachers (and I do mean English as a Second Language) as remedial instruction for new students only. Those ESL positions are sparse, often occupied, and poorly paid compared to the fully certified staff.

But garro, once you have both PGCE and an M.Ed. and experience as a tertiary instructor, you should be far more employable. You could get into a lower tier private school, a good EP program, etc. Oh, and speaking of half-Irish babies, did I tell you I have a new grandchild named Aoibhean? Is that a girl's name?

Congratulations Peaceblondie. I think you will find it is definitely a Girl's name .

Just seen this online. I am not going into Girl's sites. Personal facebook sites etc I am not going in there , but here is a clue:...'what type of guy is ment for you (girls only) - take this quiz! .... well hows u, aiobhean is gonna win hands dwn was lookin 2day at d 1s in and none of dem ....

As for your question Garro. Peaceblondie is correct I am still having to go back to the UK every October to sit a 3 hour exam in an actual Uni building. Otherwise I would fail the course.

Edited June 12, 2008 by TEFLMike

[garro]

From what I have heard on internet forums, and from a friend who tutors international students, the upper tier is very insistent that their teachers be certified and experienced from abroad, before they come to Thailand. Exceptions are made for subject specialists, and other instances in the lower tier schools. They need very few ESL teachers (and I do mean English as a Second Language) as remedial instruction for new students only. Those ESL positions are sparse, often occupied, and poorly paid compared to the fully certified staff.

But garro, once you have both PGCE and an M.Ed. and experience as a tertiary instructor, you should be far more employable. You could get into a lower tier private school, a good EP program, etc. Oh, and speaking of half-Irish babies, did I tell you I have a new grandchild named Aoibhean? Is that a girl's name?

Congratulations PB, and I agree with TEFLMike that it is a coleen's name.

[PeaceBlondie]

We interrupt this off topic for another: I kept calling Irish little girls lasses, but they are coleens, with a single l. I once had a best friend named Colin who had a collie but neither he nor his father was a collier or a colleen.

[Ijustwannateach]

It is possible but very difficult. It helps if you teach a rare subject, like higher maths or sciences. Typically you will be at a disadvantage in terms of salary, and there is some attitude from the "properer" teachers.

[TEFLMike]

Properer ? New one on me. lol Any more pull ups, it will be the LASTEST post for me

[culicine]

I'm in a similar position, in that I work in an EP, and hope someday to work in an International School. I do have a gradeDipEd (in Maths education, done by distance), BSc, PhD. I do think it is entirely possible to get work in a lower tier school (though as others have said, the top tier will be difficult), as you must compete with overseas applications with many years' experience. On the flip side will be the workload. It will be much higher and more demanding in the best schools. Compare 30 x 45 min periods in a UK based curriculum school c.f. me : 20 x 50 minute periods. The international school teacher (may) be paid more, but there are more contact hours. There may be more extra0curricular activities/functions/perents meetings as well. For me, my school is conveniently close, and as I've been here a long time I've managed to reduce my workload (through becoming more efficient). My son is in K2, so also have concerns about his education, but would a lower tier school really be that much better than the best EP's in the country? I'm not convinced of that, as yet. The main difference would be in the curriculum (Thai-translated vs. foreign). Wich I could teach the latter, as the former doesn't cater the the needs of many students.

[culicine]

Try, as a first step, getting a job in a good EP. You will be amazed at home much better the students are in english, and usually have much smaller class sized. The salary will generally be higher as well.

[garro]

Try, as a first step, getting a job in a good EP. You will be amazed at home much better the students are in english, and usually have much smaller class sized. The salary will generally be higher as well.

Hi Culicine, I'm working in an EP at the moment. I teach health studies (which is good because my degree is in nursing) as well as English R&W and S&L.

Edited June 14, 2008 by garro

[way2muchcoffee]

My son is in K2, so also have concerns about his education, but would a lower tier school really be that much better than the best EP's in the country? I'm not convinced of that, as yet. The main difference would be in the curriculum (Thai-translated vs. foreign). Wish I could teach the latter, as the former doesn't cater the the needs of many students.

I strongly believe that a really good EP is much better than a bad international school. The EP I work for sent teams to two academic competitions last year. Here were the results:

1) English, Math, Science, Social Studies Competition. 18 EP's participated. Our team took first place.

2) Mathematics Competition. 8 International Schools and 1 EP in the competition. Our grade 7-8 team took first place, and our grade 9-10 team tied for first place in their age group. We didn't field a grade 11-12 team. The competitors were all international schools including ISB, Harrow, two teams from Ruamrudee, and a few other less reputable schools.

Regarding the curricula, the better EP's use only western textbooks and have curricula nearly identical to what would be taught back home. For the teachers and administrators here is a logistical problem of identifying how the MoE Thailand curricula are being met, but that is just the paperwork. What is taught in the classroom mirrors international western curricula.

Salaries at some EP's can also be competitive. The highest paid teachers at my school earn over 85,000 per month, teaching no more than 20 periods per week. Add a contract completion bonus, health care, 12 month contract, and opportunities for extra classes and the package is much better than what many international schools offer.

[culicine]

Regarding the curricula, the better EP's use only western textbooks and have curricula nearly identical to what would be taught back home. For the teachers and administrators here is a logistical problem of identifying how the MoE Thailand curricula are being met, but that is just the paperwork. What is taught in the classroom mirrors international western curricula.

Salaries at some EP's can also be competitive. The highest paid teachers at my school earn over 85,000 per month, teaching no more than 20 periods per week. Add a contract completion bonus, health care, 12 month contract, and opportunities for extra classes and the package is much better than what many international schools offer.

That's true regarding the syllabus. I could pretty much teach what I want, regardless of what's in the MoE "standards". I think we have a duty to cater to the students as much as possible and that means modifying the curriculum as appropriate. Much of what I teach is A-level material (from the UK), and material from my Australian textbooks. They have a singapore book, from which I take come material also.

Well 85K is much more than I get, but I'm sure toomuchcoffe isn't about to divulge where he works

[thaiclan]

I worked in 2 (top tier) international schools in Pattaya. I was quite disturbed to learn that they categorically dismiss any western males who are living in Thailand already whether they are sinle or married with kids to a Thai lady. They hired local western females even if they were married to a Thai man, but not vice versa. When I brought this up with the head and the owners or board the answer was "its not worth the risk as to why they might already be here".

Shocking and discriminatory yes, but what to do eh? TIT

[way2muchcoffee]

To be fair, it would take a good, solid teacher between 6 and 10 years continuous service at the school in order to reach that level in the pay scale.

[way2muchcoffee]

I worked in 2 (top tier) international schools in Pattaya. I was quite disturbed to learn that they categorically dismiss any western males who are living in Thailand already whether they are sinle or married with kids to a Thai lady. They hired local western females even if they were married to a Thai man, but not vice versa. When I brought this up with the head and the owners or board the answer was "its not worth the risk as to why they might already be here".

Shocking and discriminatory yes, but what to do eh? TIT

I suppose someone could be a little hesitant in the case of the single guy, but married with kids? That seems totally ridiculous. It doesn't seem fair for the single guy either.

[garro]

I worked in 2 (top tier) international schools in Pattaya. I was quite disturbed to learn that they categorically dismiss any western males who are living in Thailand already whether they are sinle or married with kids to a Thai lady. They hired local western females even if they were married to a Thai man, but not vice versa. When I brought this up with the head and the owners or board the answer was "its not worth the risk as to why they might already be here".

Shocking and discriminatory yes, but what to do eh? TIT

I suppose someone could be a little hesitant in the case of the single guy, but married with kids? That seems totally ridiculous. It doesn't seem fair for the single guy either.

I would believe it though.

I recently went on a school trip to Sattahip and a school there was trying to recruit me, and another teacher, because they didn't want anybody local. They had a ban on employing anybody who lived in the Pattaya area.

[mrtoad]

Garro, would you be kind enough to send me details about the PGCE that you undertook through distance learning. I'm thinking about doing such a course, as I think that there is some value in it. I've been working in an EP for the past 18 months, and it is a well organised and well run programme, but I feel the need to improve my own skills, and with it increase my options in the future.

As regards getting work in International schools, I have several friends who have secured employment in decent schools KIS and Harrow to name two, who have varied qualifications. One had previously been working in a government school before landing a job at Harrow as an ESL teacher, so it is not impossible.

[garro]

Garro, would you be kind enough to send me details about the PGCE that you undertook through distance learning. I'm thinking about doing such a course, as I think that there is some value in it. I've been working in an EP for the past 18 months, and it is a well organised and well run programme, but I feel the need to improve my own skills, and with it increase my options in the future.

As regards getting work in International schools, I have several friends who have secured employment in decent schools KIS and Harrow to name two, who have varied qualifications. One had previously been working in a government school before landing a job at Harrow as an ESL teacher, so it is not impossible.

I sent you a pm Mr Toad. In case anyone else is interested the link for the PGCE I did is here;

http://www.usq.edu.au/handbook/current/edu/PGCE.html

As I said to Mr Hippo, it is not cheap (especially on a Thai wage) so I would get a few opinions before commiting to it.

[mrtoad]

Garro, would you be kind enough to send me details about the PGCE that you undertook through distance learning. I'm thinking about doing such a course, as I think that there is some value in it. I've been working in an EP for the past 18 months, and it is a well organised and well run programme, but I feel the need to improve my own skills, and with it increase my options in the future.

As regards getting work in International schools, I have several friends who have secured employment in decent schools KIS and Harrow to name two, who have varied qualifications. One had previously been working in a government school before landing a job at Harrow as an ESL teacher, so it is not impossible.

I sent you a pm Mr Toad. In case anyone else is interested the link for the PGCE I did is here;

http://www.usq.edu.au/handbook/current/edu/PGCE.html

As I said to Mr Hippo, it is not cheap (especially on a Thai wage) so I would get a few opinions before commiting to it.

Thanks for that Garro. I think the most daunting thing is going back to studying again. I'm sick of it.

[culicine]

Mrtoad, if you are Australian, I think you have more options re: teaching qualifications. I did a similar course to Garro, but through UNE in NSW (GradDipEd). However, it did require me to 1) be teaching at the correct level in my subject area (as I'm a maths teacher it was easy, for an ESL teacher I'm not sure); 2) have a degree with significant content from your subject area; 3) make one or two trips back home for residential schools; 4) had to sit one exam in BKK - cost about 6000 baht; 5) have two Principals reports written based on your teaching competency here (your current employer at your school). I spread it over 4 years so it wasn't a problem. You can get the HECS loan if you are Aussie/NZ; but would have to pay as an international student from overseas. This allows me to get registration and teach back home at another time. It's certainly not a cheap alternative, and the assignments were quite long to write; but I feel it was worthwhile in terms of teacher professional development. With current changes to TL requirements it's something worth thinking about. I guess if you don't have enough money or time and just want to get the TL and not worry too much about what / how much you learn, just sit and try and pass the exams or find a course in LoS (even they are not cheap now). This teacher course used to be only 28000 baht 4 years ago, now it is quoted up to 80K baht.

[culicine]

Thanks for that Garro. I think the most daunting thing is going back to studying again. I'm sick of it.

Actually if you have been teaching a while, the assignments wouldn't be that difficult, thoiugh they can be time consuming. I managed 6 HD's and 2 D's in mine, though I did put quite a bit of effort into my courses. After the first unit you get a feel for how much effort requires a certain grade. It was recommended I put in 10 hours per week per unit (I did one unit a semester). I think 2 units would be doable if you don't have a family or nitelife and are still teaching full time (that would make a 1 year full time course 2 years long).

[mrtoad]

Thanks Culcine and Garrro, for the info.

I'm actually a Brit, so I would have to pay the international student fee's, which is no problem. I would certainly have to look at what subject area that I'd want to obtain this in.

The cost is not really an issue, as if it was, it would be easier to look at the Thai options. I'm more interested in undertaking a course that has value in other countries, if I should choose to move on, and I have my doubts about some of the courses offered in Thailand.