Tractor

[wooty]

Hi folks

My Thai family started a small teakwood plantation in the Phrae province. After planting the trees, the fields need to be cleared of grass and undergrowth twice a year for the first few years until the trees outgrow gras and brush. We've done the cutting manually so far, however, it seems that a machine would be faster and in the long run also cheaper and more efficient, as the undergrowth rises quickly and high.

So we are thinking of buying a tractor that could do the cutting. The total size of the different land plots is about 300 rai, mostly even land, some uneven to slighlty hilly, but nothing steep.

Any recomendations with regard to a tractor

- new or used

- brand

- size

- price/primary investment

- maintenace and running costs

- reliable contacts or addresses (from Chiangmai to Phrae)

- your experience?

Your input is greatly appreciated!

Wooty, the farang

[Maizefarmer]

I know where a large frame 4wheel drive Kubota (95hp) is going for about 2/3rds of the new price (in Thailand) - and if I am not mistaken it is been offered with tools (meaning implements) - and it is still under its Kubota 2yr garuntee - yes, new purchased this year. New they are around Baht 1 500 000 - this one, if I am not mistaken is going for around Baht 1 000 000.

So thats if you want to buy "new". Your other option is going to be a Ford 6610 or 7610 type tractor - which will be 2nd hand (as almost all are in thailand). Althought hey are rated from 75hp - 115hp depending on year and model nearly all used Ford tractor in Thailand are running at around 10% - 20% less than their rated output - usualt because of high engine hours and general wear and tear. You can pick them up on the used market for anything from Baht 450 000 (for a "running" example, thru to just over 750 000 and more for examples in good condition)

Which of the above will be a better choice? Personally I'd go for the Kubota - better maiantenance and fuel economics, relaibility ect ect...... the Kubota also has a tighter turning circle and slightly narrower axle width and shorter wheelbase than any 6610 or 7610, but best of all it has a "shuttle gearbox" - all 3 points are plus plus plus points for working in plantation enviroments - you won't find a 6610 or 7610 on a shuttle gearbox, that is for certain.

You have 300 rai - i wouldn't look at a small to medium frame tractor - the tools will be too small and time spent on the seat will mean labour costs quickly outstrip waht you may have saved by purchasing a small/medium frame tractor.

[joeuk1]

MF

can you post what tractor i would need to use for grass cutting . We have 40 rai of lawns i would have liked a sit on mower but have been told a small/med tractor will do the job .

The tractors i see in our area are kubota 5000 what spec and cost are these ? i have tried google the model but can not find it .

Thanx in advance jb

[Maizefarmer]

Its not a question of what tractor you need for grass cutting - you can use ANY tractor for grass cutting - its more a question of understanding your needs and the tasks/work you expect to be doing with your tractor - and then choosing out of the options avalible, and your availible budget, the one best suited for your needs.

The "problem" with sit on lawn cutters is that you can;t do anything else with them other than cut lawns, also they have high import duties in Thailand (they are expensive), and last but not least 40rai is a lot to be cutting with a sit on tractor so it will take quite a bit of time - unless its a big one with wide gangs (gangs are the actaul cutters attached to the lawn mower.

You could probably source a used small to medium sized tractor (18hp - 36hp), put lawn tyres on and source used towable gangs to pull on the back. The argument for this is that generally for the same money you are going to get a much larger, more powerful and more versatile machine than you will using a dedicated sit on lawn mower - not to forget that if you have 40rai, a small/medium tractor is generally a useful multi-capable machine to have around (i.e. dragging trailers with tools, fertiliser and other things ..... all jobs a dedicated mower want be able to undertake for you). Thats my take on it, but I know for example that golf courses like to have dedicated sit on mowers - and thats a starting point if you are looking for a used one in Thailand.

Consider importing a used machine (sit on mower or tractor towable gangs) from Europe if you are not in a rush (that I could personally do for you) - towable gangs not carrying the import excise duties and taxes that a large sit on 40rai capable mower would carry - in fact, towable gangs would carry no more than about 5% total duties - simply pack up in a container with lots of other ag machinary and mark the components as "spare parts".

As for the tractor unit its self - well, here are loads of sources to select from in Thailand - I'd be looking for a 2nd hand Iseki, Yanmar or similar with around 24hp - 36hp with idealy (but not essential) balloon or lawn tyres already on it.

Kubota 5000 ?? - my opinion? - its a solid little machine - no prob;s there, but a little light to be using it to pull a large grass gang mower around - any dampness and it's lack of weight/mass will mean lots of tyre slip (not good for turf) - but here I am think in terms of gangs running around 5meters plus wide - so that you can get a 40rai job done in one day or so. The 5000 will be fine with a a couple overlapping 1m - 1,5m gangs.

So before going on I think the the question should be:

- against what I have said, which do you think will suit you best - a dedicated sit on style lawn mower, or a tractor capable of doing a number of tasks?

- how much time do you want to spend ech time the grass needs to be cut - wil you be cuting the whole lot at the same time in one go or not?

Attached are some pictures of diffrent mower types varying in price from around Baht 33 000 thru to over 400 000 - you can get bigger and smaller examples - gang mowers up to 5m - 8m wide are posible

s

1) Towable gang mower - imported 2nd hand (source used tractor localy) Advantage: cheap -easy to maintain, frees up trctor for other work Disadvantage: no grass bin

2) Typical sit on mower - imported or sourced locally 2nd hand Advantage: compact, good quality Disadvantage: requires 2nd tractor for you want to do other work, spares very expensive

[joeuk1]

Thanx for the info MF you have given me lots to think about .

Jb

[wooty]

Thanx, Maizefarmer, for your input. Is there also a market for used Kubota tractors? You mention Ford, and I know that they are readily available. Does Kubota also have such a strong following? The need for a purchase will come up next year, so I have some time to look around.

Looking forward to hearing from you!

Wooty (without a tractor...)

[Maizefarmer]

Ford still dominates the Thai tractor market throughout Thailand.

However, Kubota is big down in the South of Thailand because of its proximity to Malaysia - where Kubota is very big. The more South you move the more big Kubota's you will see, and the newer they tend to be compared to Fords.

Kubota's are a good solid machine - parts and spares are commonly avalible throughout the coutnry and the company is investing more and more each year in its dealer network througout Thailand.

As I said inthe previous post I know of a 4 wheel drive Kubota 105S - 2008 model which will come up for grabs shortly at around Baht 1 000 000 - versus the Baht 1 500 000 retail price. It's in current daily use, still under warranty and I think will be offered with a disc plough and front end loader. The hours are still in the hundreds. It has a shuttle gearbox - a major major plus point.

Nothing wrong with the big Kubota - I'd buy a 4 wheel drive Kubota 105S any day over a 4 wheel drive Ford 6610 or 7610 - but both are very capable and reliable machines.

[slapout]

Wooty; 300 rai to cut brush and grass, and clear around trees will keep someone busy for a few days a month. The mowers pictured above are probably too small for the work required. The last (#4) pictured above L to R, appears to be a single blade brush hog. It does not appear to be a heavy duty one. The heavy duty run on skids, not wheels and the 3 point is adujusted for cutting height and even cutting. #3 appears to be a frail type mower, these can be hooked to a 3 point just like the brush hog mower but have the advantage of being offset so one side sticks out from track of the tractor for mowing closer to fence, trees etc, the wheels shown on this indicate its probably not heavy duty also. again cutting height is set by 3 point adjustment. A 35 to 45 hp tractor would be my choice (personal) with a 8 to 9 foot mower behind. When looking at brush hogs blade size, gear box, bearing size and clutch are important for long life, as of course is body material thickness. Frail mowers are good if rocks and trash are part of the landscape your mowing, such as roadsides etc. the only disadvantage I can think of is they wont cut larger brush, trees etc like the brush hog. A frail mower with a chain drive works great or at least a double belt (heavy) if chain drive is not avaliable. The 35 to 45 hp size tractor also allows for a fron end loader, blade and most other implements which you may have a need for in the future. The first two mowers may work good on a golf course or for a gentlemans lawn but not a 300 rai farm. again my opinion.

[slapout]

Just for a price, US vs Thailand for a John Deere 42 HP new with front end loader (extra), double hydralic system select-o-matic shifting, bomber type tires (extra), no cab, just roll bars. Family just got one for 32,000 usd. Maybe this is a reason for John Deere putting in an appearance in Thailand in the past few years as used price in US may be down.

[DaveD]

Just for a price, US vs Thailand for a John Deere 42 HP new with front end loader (extra), double hydralic system select-o-matic shifting, bomber type tires (extra), no cab, just roll bars. Family just got one for 32,000 usd. Maybe this is a reason for John Deere putting in an appearance in Thailand in the past few years as used price in US may be down.

Hi, a guy ploughed 27 rai for us using a new kubota L3408 pulling a 3 disc plough.It is a small tractor 28-34 HP Price for the 34Hp is 543000 baht.

Watching him plough i thought it was making hard work of it .but that may be because the land was badly overgrown with grass and we had no time to spray it off.

In this area ,Sikhiu ,i see these new kubotas everywhere.i guess they appeal to the farmer with small areas ,allthough im sure the company must have provided a scheme for easy payment terms.My wife called them and they said they required a 10000 baht deposit ,land paper to register a loan .and guarantees from 2 different people not of the same tabien baan.Payback over 5 years.

Any advice on these small tractors is welcome .

[Maizefarmer]

Good little machines - no question about it: but over 60months if you do the interest calcs you will land up paying something like an extra 20%plus - and that is over the advertised retail price - for which if you offer cash you can normally get around 7% - 11% discount!!

In short: yes - good machine but not good value if purchased like that: you'd be far far better off settling for something 2nd hand and slightly larger e.g. you can pick up a reliable 75hp - 80hp used 6610 on a ZF front axle if between 500k - 650k!

[slapout]

DaveD; a hp rating in Thailand is inflated in the best of times. There are several ways to come up with hp on a tractor and I am sure some people on Tv will give their idea of the best. I will not get into a debate on hp vs acres to farm, as Thailand with the cobbled up land parcels will not work in the figures used in eastern (from Thailand) countries. There was a recent post from a TV member who bought a 2nd hand tractor (imported) dealer went thru drive train, engine etc, brought it up to buyer specs and all parties were happy. You mention making hard work of it in your post above, spraying would not make a difference if tractor and disk are matched (size vs hp). A 28 to 34 hp leaves room for guessing but it sounds like the implement is bigger than the tractor was built to handle. Too little HP is the same as too much HP but the former has to be corrected, whereas you can work around the latter. Most of the Fords etc in the 75 hp + range that I have seen in our area (Fang, north) are purchased with the commercial aspect in mind as the owners only have 30 to 50 rai of their own land and that will not justify that large a tractor. The dealers in CM have had a lot of these oversized garden tractors for sell (repo) and they love the new business.

[joeuk1]

I will be looking for something along these lines we dont have much use for a tractor but will need to do plenty of grass cutting .

JB

[manjara]

MF

can you post what tractor i would need to use for grass cutting . We have 40 rai of lawns i would have liked a sit on mower but have been told a small/med tractor will do the job .

The tractors i see in our area are kubota 5000 what spec and cost are these ? i have tried google the model but can not find it .

Thanx in advance jb

40 rai of lawns???? Even 4 rai would take half a day on a sit on mower. 40 rai would take you several days...

Also you said you were clearing 300 rai by hand??? How big is your Thai family? It would take a small army!

[Maizefarmer]

Something along the above lines wil cost over $10 00k - new.

Depening on condition something like these could be picked up (in Europe) for around 1/3 to 1/2 that - I'd say between Baht 125 000 - thru to around Baht 200 000

The problem at the moment is the strengnth of the TB - it is so strong.

What budget do you have in mind?

[joeuk1]

MF

can you post what tractor i would need to use for grass cutting . We have 40 rai of lawns i would have liked a sit on mower but have been told a small/med tractor will do the job .

The tractors i see in our area are kubota 5000 what spec and cost are these ? i have tried google the model but can not find it .

Thanx in advance jb

40 rai of lawns???? Even 4 rai would take half a day on a sit on mower. 40 rai would take you several days...

Also you said you were clearing 300 rai by hand??? How big is your Thai family? It would take a small army!

Manjara

You are a little confused i dont have 300 rai to clear there seems to be more than 1 JB on the forum lol .

Mine.........

Property 1 in UK is 4 Acres 10 rai of lawns cutting lawns on kubota sit on mower takes 3 hours to get a real nice job done i own this land thats kept in beautiful condition so i realy dont know where you get your numbers from . Property 2 has 7.5 acres 5 acres of lawns 2 acre lake we have ONE guy comes in ONCE a week sits on the mower for most of the day but does other gardening dutys also takes an hour for lunch and the lawns are left beautiful .

Thailand we have approx 40 rai of lawns just been laid and 20 rai of water we have 4 fulltime gardening staff planting at the moment i rekon if we put one guy on one of the sit on mowers same pic i posted twice a week we will keep the lawns cut same as in the uk .

I will keep you informed .

Your numbers are way out .

JB

[Maizefarmer]

Manjara

What about something along the lines of the attached pics - these are all used but working, cost wise landed in Thailand I would think they would retail for between Baht 40 000 and Baht 110 000 (+/- 10% or so).

If you want more detail drop me an email - I need to be careful that I don't breach the rules of the forum about promoting business - but for the benfit of all readers, this is the sort of equipment that is sourceable in Thailand for the sorts of prices listed above.

As far as parts avaliability goes - well, they are brand name manufactured goods, and other than for things like pistons and cranks, pretty much everything else wil be avalible off the shelf, or at least replaceable with a comparable alternative part should something break (e.g. the hydraulics components on all these machines i.e. the hydrostatic drives - will be sauer Danfoss, GE or some other big name manufacturer - and they all have representation in Thailand). Things like cutting blades can easily be made in a workshop.

The point really is - yes, although imported used, they are servicable and maintainable here, so don't let the fact that it is imported put you off.

Edited August 21, 2008 by Maizefarmer

[DaveD]

DaveD; a hp rating in Thailand is inflated in the best of times. There are several ways to come up with hp on a tractor and I am sure some people on Tv will give their idea of the best. I will not get into a debate on hp vs acres to farm, as Thailand with the cobbled up land parcels will not work in the figures used in eastern (from Thailand) countries. There was a recent post from a TV member who bought a 2nd hand tractor (imported) dealer went thru drive train, engine etc, brought it up to buyer specs and all parties were happy. You mention making hard work of it in your post above, spraying would not make a difference if tractor and disk are matched (size vs hp). A 28 to 34 hp leaves room for guessing but it sounds like the implement is bigger than the tractor was built to handle. Too little HP is the same as too much HP but the former has to be corrected, whereas you can work around the latter. Most of the Fords etc in the 75 hp + range that I have seen in our area (Fang, north) are purchased with the commercial aspect in mind as the owners only have 30 to 50 rai of their own land and that will not justify that large a tractor. The dealers in CM have had a lot of these oversized garden tractors for sell (repo) and they love the new business.

Hi ,and thank you.

The L3408 was new ,i noticed that he had to stop and reverse to try to clear the discs of the grass i mentioned.Would a bigger HP machine ,pulling the same 3 disc plough have been able to carry on?

I see in the kubota brochure for the 95HP ,photos showing the machine pulling 4 disc and 7 disc ploughs.If you see the siam kubota video,it shows a guy doing wheelies in a paddy field on a smaller machine.i guess this is to appeal to some local guys .

Maizefarmer favours using the same money to buy a bigger machine,like a ford 6610(i dont know what a ZF front axel is) depending on requirments.

Im not familiar with disc ploughing ,but i gather it is the norm for tropica/sandy soils.

Dave

[Gary A]

My Yanmar is about 30 HP and I got a 4 disk plow with it. The dealer assured me the tractor had enough power. He didn't lie. The tractor has enough power but not enough weight. When the ground turns to clay, all four wheels slip. The plow is definitely to much for the tractor. I'd be happy to find someone with a 3 disk who would want to trade.

[Maizefarmer]

Thats the wrong way to go about it - reduce the diameter of the discs before reducing the amount of discs.

As well - make up a metal frame that can be bolted to the front of the tractor Throw a concreate block in a wooden box or similar with part of the steel frame inserted into it while wet. Let it dry then bolt this to the front of the tractor.

A 70kg block of concreate mounted 40cm - 50cm in front of the front axle will give a good 30 - 40% extra traction to the front and back tyres under load.

1" thick sheet steel will do just fine as 2 arms - most hardware stores will have it in stock and will cut it to ize for you with a blow torch - then just drill holes in the right place to bolt to the front of the engine block ( theres usualy a big heavy casting on the front of most tractor engines which is used to attach front pto's and 3 point hitches)

[slapout]

Traction can be increased by adding weight to the frame and/or adding fluid to the tires. The tractor and implements need to be matched on size and HP and this matched to land size. It appears many/dealers people who sell farm machinery in Thailand would not be able to tell you hp requirements for implement size, nor rai/acre coverage per hour, cost to run tractor/hr., trade in loss/hr., etc have no traning, no trained salespeople(same as auto showrooms), no spare parts in stock with up to date tech training and repair by the company. They sell used imported farm machinery due to low overhead, little after sales support (okie warrenty) and sell what they have, and/or is requested with little thought to repeat business. Plan ahead 10 year for a repeat customer, trade in, service/repair during use, and sell the trade in after overhaul/repair as needed to a new customer, WHY. I enjoy talking to family back home who have spent their growing up years on farms, 4 to 5 year in University with ag degree, run numbers, bitch about results (real and proposed) and still feel the need to go back to school every 2 year so they can keep up with what is new and working. They laughed when they came here and looked at the majority of farm operations as they felt they were seeing what they had read and heard about on farms 3 to 4 generations ago.

[DaveD]

Traction can be increased by adding weight to the frame and/or adding fluid to the tires. The tractor and implements need to be matched on size and HP and this matched to land size. It appears many/dealers people who sell farm machinery in Thailand would not be able to tell you hp requirements for implement size, nor rai/acre coverage per hour, cost to run tractor/hr., trade in loss/hr., etc have no traning, no trained salespeople(same as auto showrooms), no spare parts in stock with up to date tech training and repair by the company. They sell used imported farm machinery due to low overhead, little after sales support (okie warrenty) and sell what they have, and/or is requested with little thought to repeat business. Plan ahead 10 year for a repeat customer, trade in, service/repair during use, and sell the trade in after overhaul/repair as needed to a new customer, WHY. I enjoy talking to family back home who have spent their growing up years on farms, 4 to 5 year in University with ag degree, run numbers, bitch about results (real and proposed) and still feel the need to go back to school every 2 year so they can keep up with what is new and working. They laughed when they came here and looked at the majority of farm operations as they felt they were seeing what they had read and heard about on farms 3 to 4 generations ago.

Yes ,i know it can be frustrating,but certainly .some farming methods are the same as my country was 50 years ago.thats what i like about it.in my country farming has ceased to be a way of life and is now a serious business venture.im hoping to recapture some of the old ways ,including working and bonding with the land.not looking for millions but quality of life