Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

[h90]

It is usual in developed countries that the government does not stay above judiciary. That also elected criminals get punished even if they are rich is something good. Is it so evil if people get punished for vote buying?

I would like to see even stronger laws specially against corruption and abuse of power.

[animatic]

Why doesnt whoever ordered the assualt police and politicians just fess up. After all they are climing they did nothing wrong. Cowards?

The PAD coordinator revealed the PAD will suspend all its protest activities until the funerals of both Angkana Radabpanyawut and Police Lieutenant Colonel Methee Chatmontri have concluded.

Good for PAD, they see both sides, even if they only agree on one side.

Just in case any more individuals cry they are ignoring the police death.

But for Police Lieutenant Colonel Methee Chatmontri,

it might likely will be a hard eternity...

Any bets on where the BLAME will be laid for this cock-up by the investigating committees???

[blaze]

It is usual in developed countries that the government does not stay above judiciary...

The power that some wanted the judiciary to have went well beyond even common judicial activism- (which results when judges are neither impartial nor unswayed by their own political, social etc allegiences). it extended to the role of the judiciary in appointing all members of the senate. (this link to 'evil elections'- http://nationmultimedia.com/2007/04/27/pol...s_30032854.php)

But the judiciary is only one of the agencies which would be enlisted to over ride the power of elected officials- not just TRT officials- but ALL elected officials- for as long as the constitution would remain in force.

In some quarters the very nature of elections is inappropriate for Thailand. THe people are happier and better off when simply told what to do. Leave the 'vision' stuff to their betters. And their betters, not conincidentally, are the same groups that have held maximum sway in this country since its inception.

[Los78]

Policeman run over by a PAD supporter - reported by foreign media - not Thai (that I am aware of)

You mean this?

http://www.prachatai.com/05web/th/home/13987

Yes I have seen many photos of beaten, run over and injured police from independant journalist who covered the clash and most of the police are only carrying shields while PAD mob beat them with sticks and other weapons. Strange how peace lovers claim that PAD were there peacefully. Its also interesting how so much positive attention goes against the people upholding the law while PAD a mob cause illegal activities and are not punished in any way. Did the driver that ran over the police man even get charged? I mean really if some group tried to do this in Europe, USA, Australia or another democratic country do you all think police would let them take over offices and government buildings peacefully with out upholding the law. A lot of people live in some strange world of ASTV propaganda and wishful thinking who have forgotten the rule of law which is enforced. Maybe some of you should check out the links posted that are not connected to Sondhi's propaganda machine which dont show police beating protesters to death but doing their job.

[jdinasia]

Why doesnt whoever ordered the assualt police and politicians just fess up. After all they are climing they did nothing wrong. Cowards?

The PAD coordinator revealed the PAD will suspend all its protest activities until the funerals of both Angkana Radabpanyawut and Police Lieutenant Colonel Methee Chatmontri have concluded.

Good for PAD, they see both sides, even if they only agree on one side.

Just in case any more individuals cry they are ignoring the police death.

But for Police Lieutenant Colonel Methee Chatmontri,

it might likely will be a hard eternity...

Any bets on where the BLAME will be laid for this cock-up by the investigating committees???

Ani---

You need to figure out just who THIS Police Lt Col happens to be. (He was head of security for the PAD)

I am still trying to find any deaths on the non-PAD side (be it the police or the UDD etc) other than the one man that attcked the PAD in an entrenched position.

I am also trying to find out if the vehicle driver that hit the police was an active PAD member or some random nutcase from the community and his fate as of this moment.

The out of context pictures posted by folks like los78 just carry no weight (like the random self serving ramblings of bloggers that make unsubstantiated claims that can't be checked via any other source)

edit ---- grandpops the post you quoted was from a news source ... move on

Edited October 14, 2008 by jdinasia

[Ricardo]

Los78, you may remember making this claim before, that more than one vehicle/offender was involved, but the evidence then was that it happened only once. It was of course disgraceful, as I said once more details began to emerge, hopefully the driver has been apprehended, and his motivation/affiliation will be established when the case comes to court, and he is punished.

Strange that this has not already happened, given the speed with which the police established that all the limbs blown off, were due to explosives carried by the victims themselves.

And the speed that the vehicle explosion, near the Chart-Thai HQ, was established to be a car-bomb, but that the lady forensic scientist claims to have spoken to two witnesses who say that the police fired something into the vehicle. Which then exploded. It wasn't a fire or exploding fuel-tank, caused by whatever device might have been used by the police, the police themselves have already confirmed that the car might have had explosives on-board. So that's alright then.

[Rajah]

Strange how peace lovers claim that PAD were there peacefully. Its also interesting how so much positive attention goes against the people upholding the law while PAD a mob cause illegal activities and are not punished in any way.

Did the driver that ran over the police man even get charged?

We have the same opinion. Everybody is talking about teargas, nobody about e.g. the car driver. I heard no news about this case. And forget Nation/BKK Post if you want to be informed.

[grandpops]

The point is JD, the debate hasn't moved on. It's polarised.

It was from a propagande source and I would expect a long time poster such as yourself to regonise propaganda from any source.

[animatic]

JD, thanks I seem to have been a victim of JUST the disinformation campaign

I wanted to counteract. So many screamed hear about the "dead" police victim,

As you say what dead police victim. Some say the guy hit by a SRV,

but we see nothing about his death, I remember hearing 2 broken legs, that's it.

I just got it in my head Lt.Col, Montree was on the police side in this.

Dis-information 1 notch. She this crap does work.

Tell a lie often enough and even the relative informed get confused.

OK, Nonmg Bow might have been a mistake or just bad luck,

but ya wanna bet this guy was SPECIFICALLY targeted....

One of the only 2 deaths and it is a opposition police man....

Taken out as a traitor to his scet.... hhmmm. As plausible as anything.

[thaigene2]

Judging by amount af trolling and bullshit posted here, I'm absolutely convinced that royalty should be kept off limits.

"Respectful and thoughtful" is not how I would describe Thaivisa, or any other Thai related online community.

Except when you're calling me a drunk, apparently.

And why is that exactly? Is it because I post between 10 and 12 at night? Am I keeping you up old fella?

Plus - I am 'w-o-r-k-i-n-g' the rest of the time (long days) and earning 'm-o-n-e-y' not drinking (not usually anyway)..that's just weird. Whatever.

As for the other post/link I didn't open it, but am guessing this is the one where I suggested a compromise between the 'old family money' types and the thaksinite/democracy types. I cling to hope - but I agree with another poster above who suggests that getting the aristo-thais to acknowledge that the key to their survival is a UK-style or European-style compromise (where they keep their land and their honorifics - like "Na-this" or "Na-that" etc,) seems remote. As the poster said they think the majority of the country are low IQ children not worthy of their attention, and certainly not worthy of choosing governments (convenient excuses as they may be).

As I say, I cling to hope that eventually that will be a compromise that's reached. But I really believe that 's very unlikely now given the recent events (the one that we're not allowed to discuss anymore (except in glowing terms).

As mentioned (again by others) the whole point of this discussion has become pointless...and childish for sure.

[Los78]

Yes there are too many questions that refused to be answered by many members discussing this clash. It seems that many members have no respect for the rule of law but mob rule is okay. I am consistanty getting warning messages or getting my posts removed because my opinion obviously is not PAD mob loving. It is Sad that a free forum has been made into a biased mouthpiece for ASTV thesedays and any over views are quickly removed. I guess I have to look at the other topics since any opposing PAD comments are removed here or quickly hushed up by some rules which only apply to certain members who dont confirm to Mob rule.

No longer a debate here but a one sided mob cheer squad unfortunetly.

[animatic]

It seem the people who don't 'HATE PAD', flame less.

Or at least don't go out of bounds as much.

Simple logic, but doesn't back up your opinion.

[jdinasia]

Thaigene2 --- we are still waiting for info on those other people that were killed last week.

[sriracha john]

Methee Chartmontri

Former Thailand Prime Minister Anand Panyarachun pays his last respect to Methee Chartmontree, a former police officer and chief of security guard for People's Alliance for Democracy, at a Buddhist temple Tuesday, Oct. 14, 2008 in Bangkok, Thailand.

Associated Press

Former Prime Minister Anand Panyarachun presides over cremation of Methee Chartmontree, who died from bomb explosion last week when police dispersed protesters. He was chief of security guards of PAD leaders.

The Nation

Edited October 14, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Thaksin holds the key : Anand

Former PM says UK exile is only person who can break deadlock

Former premier Anand Panyarachun yesterday urged Thaksin Shinawatra to help defuse the country's political crisis, saying he holds the key to breaking the stalemate.

"With due respect, I feel that former premier Thaksin is the only person who can crack the deadlock," Anand said.

He was speaking after presiding over the cremation of Pol Lt-Colonel Methee Chatmontri, a member of |the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD).

Anand said he was not accusing Thaksin of being behind the impasse, but that he had merely come to such a conclusion after considering all the angles. "I have no advice for Khun Thaksin. If he really intends to help ease the political tensions, he could do it right away. Khun Thaksin is clever and has good judgement. He doesn't need to consult anyone," Anand said.

The government of Somchai Wongsawat, a brother-in-law of Thaksin, could do the job if it were independent enough, he said.

Both sides of the feud should keep in mind that they also have a role in helping to unravel the impediments to reconciliation, he added.

Thaksin is now spending his second round of self-imposed exile in Britain after jumping bail in a corruption case and escaping to the country, where his family maintains a mansion. He and his wife Pojaman have applied for asylum there on grounds that the Thai justice system is incapable of ensuring a fair trial for them.

Anand, who served as prime minister after the coup of 1991 and again after the Black May incident of 1992, said he hoped to see no more violence following the police break-up of an anti-government demonstration on October 7 that left two protesters dead and hundreds of people wounded, including policemen.

Anand and PAD leaders were among the grievers attending the funeral rites at Somanas Rajaworaviharn Temple for Methee, a retired policeman who was the head of the guards for PAD supporters.

Methee was killed when a vehicle exploded near him during the October 7 police crackdown on protesters outside Parliament.

Anand also visited Vichuda Radabpanyawuth, the mother of Angkana Radabpanyawuth, the other protester killed during the crackdown. Vichuda, who lost some toes in the incident, is recovering at Siriraj Hospital.

At Methee's cremation, besides leaders and members of the PAD, were politicians from the opposition Democrat Party and current and former Senators.

Opposition Leader Abhisit Vejjajiva was greeted with shouts of "new prime minister" from the PAD followers, who also rattled their hand-clappers in a show of support.

- The Nation / 2008-10-15

[Carib]

http://www.prachatai.com/05web/th/home/13987

About the pickup incident.

Will take a while for the pics to download. .

[sriracha john]

http://www.prachatai.com/05web/th/home/13987

About the pickup incident.

Will take a while for the pics to download. .

Please review the thread as this was previously posted yesterday.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2273593

[sriracha john]

oh, and his buddy?

He's toting an automatic rifle on the right...

Secret Recording of PM’s Order to Crackdown on Protesters Unearthed

Somkiart Pongpaiboon, one of the five key People's Alliance for Democracy leaders, revealed that there’s a secret recording of the midnight Cabinet meeting on October 6th. He claimed that there are a multitude of deadly assault weapons used against PAD protesters including M26 grenades, SKMP5 automatic rifles, and teargas grenades.

The above should have read HK MP5... or more precisely...

Heckler and Koch MP5

The Heckler and Koch MP5 Submachine gun is a lightweight, air-cooled, magazine-fed, delayed blowback operated, select-fire weapon that can be shouldered or hand fired. The H&K MP5 submachine gun is chambered for various pistol cartridges to include 9x19mm Luger, .40 S&W, and 10mm Auto.

and now more on the emergency, clandestine Cabinet meeting...

Chaotic meeting before the bloodshed

After learning that tear-gas canisters made in China caused the casualties in the October 7 clash between police and protesters from the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), society now wants to find out who was responsible for the tragedy.

Many fingers have been pointed at former Deputy Prime Minister Chavalit Yongchaiyudh, who was assigned to take care of the rally by an urgent Cabinet meeting and resigned after the incident.

People are desperate to learn what went on in that urgent Cabinet meeting the night before the clash. In fact, as the time for his policy address drew near, Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat decided to consult his Cabinet members about what should be done.

"The PM had the power to command the operation without calling the meeting, but he is too much of a novice," one minister said, asking not to be named.

It was a chaotic meeting. Most ministers were not ready, some wore T-shirts, and others were drunk and given to shouting.

*good thing they didn't have any of those H&K MP5's at the meeting*

Somchai finally decided to go ahead with his policy address, and the ministers were divided into two camps about handling the protesters.

The first camp, including Chavalit, Agriculture Minister Somsak Prissanananthakul, and Foreign Minister Sompong Amornwiwat, proposed that the policy address be shifted to another venue. They feared violence and bloodshed. Somchai supported the idea.

The other camp, led by Public Health Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung, Public Health Deputy Minister Wicharn Meenchainant, and PM's Secretary-General Choosak Sirinin disagreed.

"Parliament is a sacred place. Every government makes its policy address there. We won't allow them to obstruct us," Chalerm was quoted as saying.

Choosak called House Speaker Chai Chidchob for his opinion on shifting the policy address to an alternative venue, and Chai insisted on following the original schedule. Somchai's Cabinet finally agreed with Chai and assigned Chavalit to take control of maintaining security.

Chavalit then went to the Metropolitan Police Bureau and gave two instructions: police should gently negotiate with the protesters to allow MPs into the Parliament building; and if this failed, they should do nothing more.

However, the police cracked down on the protesters with tear gas. The clash claimed two lives and injured more than 400.

A close Chavalit aide, Chavalit Witchayasuth, claimed: "The police from Metropolitan did not listen to Chavalit's commands."

Do we take it, then, that police will listen only to police?

There are two former policemen in the Cabinet who played a crucial role in the incident: Chalerm and Interior Minister Kowit Watana. To whom would the police be more likely to listen?

As well, there was a long-distance call, with the message: "It's too much. I can't take it any more."

- The Nation / 2008-10-15

[sriracha john]

Samak will join DAAD rally

Former prime minister Samak Sundaravej has agreed to speak at the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship rally on November 1, People Power Party MP Jatuporn Promphan said yesterday.

DAAD would hold the second "Today's Truth Family" event on that day at Rajamangala National Stadium, Jatuporn said.

Other rallies or political activities would be considered on a daily basis. However, if a coup breaks out, democracy lovers are encouraged to gather at Sanam Luang immediately, he said.

Jatuporn, a former leader but still a key member of DAAD, was speaking after finishing DAAD's three-day tribute at Sanam Luang for the October 14, 1973 uprising.

The group of former DAAD leaders, including Jatuporn, host a programme called "Today's Truth" on NBT.

Somyos Prueksakasemsuk, a DAAD leader, said the group would march to the Democracy Monument on October 29 to commemorate the death of taxi driver Nuamthong Praiwan, who committed suicide in protest against the 2006 military coup.

Lopburi MP Suchart Lainamngern said if police and military officers did not confirm they were providing protection for MPs attending the parliamentary session next Wednesday, a thousand people from his province would arrive to show support and give protection for MPs at Parliament House.

"MPs of course have followers. An MP just gives the signal, and his supporters will come right away," he said. "They have their own vehicles and are ready to move out."

He said the group would not come to confront the People's Alliance for Democracy; but they wanted to show PAD it was not authorised to carry out any illegal conduct. MPs are elected by voters,he said, so they should be allowed to do their jobs.

- The Nation / 2008-10-15

=================================================================

I suppose it is worth noting that there is a question as to Samak, with his ongoing health concerns, is even healthy enough to attend the Constitution Court proceedings on the dissolution of his People Power Party,

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/findpost-p2274982.html

but it's encouraging to hear he is healthy enough to attend a political rally.

Edited October 15, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Metropolitan Police Chief Police Lieutenant-General Suchart Muankaew

NCCC to probe police over crackdown on protesters

The National Counter Corruption Commission (NCCC) agreed Tuesday to set up a panel to investigate

Bangkok police chief awaits violence probe

Metropolitan Police Chief Suchart Muankaew said he is ready to accept the result of an investigation on Tuesday's lethal crackdown on anti-government protesters. The tear-gas crackdown on Tuesday left two people killed and more than 400 injured. He said he was the commander of the event that day, and will accept whatever the fact-finding panel says. If it finds that police are wrong, then he said he is willing to take the responsibility. Police Lt-Gen Suchart said police do not want the outcome to be that way, and that what happened was unavoidable.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=131418

Edited October 15, 2008 by sriracha john

[frodo]

Chaotic meeting before the bloodshed

It was a chaotic meeting. Most ministers were not ready, some wore T-shirts, and others were drunk and given to shouting.

*good thing they didn't have any of those H&K MP5's at the meeting*

Somchai finally decided to go ahead with his policy address, and the ministers were divided into two camps about handling the protesters.

The first camp, including Chavalit, Agriculture Minister Somsak Prissanananthakul, and Foreign Minister Sompong Amornwiwat, proposed that the policy address be shifted to another venue. They feared violence and bloodshed. Somchai supported the idea.

The other camp, led by Public Health Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung, Public Health Deputy Minister Wicharn Meenchainant, and PM's Secretary-General Choosak Sirinin disagreed.

"Parliament is a sacred place. Every government makes its policy address there. We won't allow them to obstruct us," Chalerm was quoted as saying.

Choosak called House Speaker Chai Chidchob for his opinion on shifting the policy address to an alternative venue, and Chai insisted on following the original schedule. Somchai's Cabinet finally agreed with Chai and assigned Chavalit to take control of maintaining security.

Chavalit then went to the Metropolitan Police Bureau and gave two instructions: police should gently negotiate with the protesters to allow MPs into the Parliament building; and if this failed, they should do nothing more.

However, the police cracked down on the protesters with tear gas. The clash claimed two lives and injured more than 400.

A close Chavalit aide, Chavalit Witchayasuth, claimed: "The police from Metropolitan did not listen to Chavalit's commands."

Do we take it, then, that police will listen only to police?

There are two former policemen in the Cabinet who played a crucial role in the incident: Chalerm and Interior Minister Kowit Watana. To whom would the police be more likely to listen?

As well, there was a long-distance call, with the message: "It's too much. I can't take it any more."

- The Nation / 2008-10-15

Agreed with your highlighted area SJ. "Others" were drunk and I wonder if Chalerm was one of them? The crackdown on alcohol by the Health Minister himself, while some members of his own party comes into an important government meeting "drunk and shouting." Hypocracy at its best, "Do as I say, not what I do." Interesting how those camps were divided. One a more reasonable approach, while the other a much more aggressive one. The hypocrite Chalerm making decisions like this. He claims he had nothing to do with emergency personal being forbidden to attend to those in need, but given his track record, I have zero belief in that claim. Someone posted earlier about the long line to smack him a few times...think I'll be like a Thai in 7-11 and jump queue.

Edited October 15, 2008 by frodo

[sriracha john]

Samak expected to attend UDD assembly

Former PM Samak Sundaravej is expected to attend the second assembly of government supporters, the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD), at Rajamangala stadium on Nov 1. Samak is being treated at a hospital amid rumours he has liver cancer. He was admitted on Oct 2. The hospital refuses to disclose his illness. PPP MP Jatuporn Phromphan said yesterday Samak expected to be discharged from the hospital soon and had agreed to be a special guest at the gathering. The assembly would start at 9am. The highlight would be the the TV political talk show Kwam Jing Wan Nee (The Truth Today) hosted by Government Spokesman Nattawut Saikua, political veteran [and TRT Banned #104] Veera Musikhapong, and himself. The UDD's first gathering, at Muang Thong Thani in Nonthaburi on Saturday, drew at least 10,000 people, Jatuporn said. He expected up to 60,000 people to attend the Nov

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/151008_News/15Oct2008_news09.php

================================================================

That's positive news from Jatuporn about Samak being discharged. That means he will be healthy enough to attend the Constitution Court proceedings on the dissolution of his People Power Party and won't have to send a representative to testify.

[Plus]

I expect that Nick Nolstix to be there and shower lots of praise on this democratic movement, led by the champion of democracy himself, Samak Sundaravej, leader of 1976 uprising against Thammasat students.

The MPs are boasting that each of them can bring a thousand supporters to protect them from PAD, they just give a call, and support will be there. Nick Nolstitz would have a great time describing it as grassroot movement against "elites".

"People Power" my ass.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Plus

[sriracha john]

I imagine Nick has his foot-clapper at the ready....

A kid shows "foot clappers" during a pro-government rally at Sanam Luang on Tuesday. The tool was made to counter "hand clappers" of anti-government protesters.

The Nation

Edited October 15, 2008 by sriracha john

[Ricardo]

Los78, you may remember making this claim before, that more than one vehicle/offender was involved, but the evidence then was that it happened only once. It was of course disgraceful, as I said once more details began to emerge, hopefully the driver has been apprehended, and his motivation/affiliation will be established when the case comes to court, and he is punished.

Strange that this has not already happened, given the speed with which the police established that all the limbs blown off, were due to explosives carried by the victims themselves.

And the speed that the vehicle explosion, near the Chart-Thai HQ, was established to be a car-bomb, but that the lady forensic scientist claims to have spoken to two witnesses who say that the police fired something into the vehicle. Which then exploded. It wasn't a fire or exploding fuel-tank, caused by whatever device might have been used by the police, the police themselves have already confirmed that the car might have had explosives on-board. So that's alright then.

Los78, please note that I quoted your (now unavailable) post, but did not add or remove a single word, merely highlighted two phrases. I did not, and would not, 'falsify' another member's posts.

The highlight was your claim, which you previously made a few days ago, that the PAD were driving pick-up trucks at the police, and which I don't yet see the evidence for.

There is a world of difference, between a single stupid/mistaken person, who may (it's not yet proven) have been a PAD-supporter , driving a single pick-up at the police, and multiple supporters driving several pick-ups at the police.

One is an act of stupidity, madness, whatever, by an individual person, as the police knowingly or through poor-training/equipment maim, injure , gas or kill hundreds of their friends.

The other would be a planned-response, much more serious IMO, implemented by several people within PAD, as a strategy to cause more-serious and more-numerous injuries.

Yes there are too many questions that refused to be answered by many members discussing this clash.

I have quoted the first line only, from your post. I agree with you. So when will you answer the above question, where is the evidence, for your repeated claims that the PAD drove trucks, not just a single pick-up, at the police ? I really want to see it, as I am sure you cannot be fabricating or exagerating this, such a serious allegation.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Ricardo

[younghusband]

I expect that Nick Nolstix to be there and shower lots of praise on this democratic movement, led by the champion of democracy himself, Samak Sundaravej, leader of 1976 uprising against Thammasat students.

The MPs are boasting that each of them can bring a thousand supporters to protect them from PAD, they just give a call, and support will be there. Nick Nolstitz would have a great time describing it as grassroot movement against "elites".

"People Power" my ass.

You really have it in for Nick don't you.It's utterly transparent why.

Turning to Samak he wasn't the leader of the 1976 reactionary forces as you very well know, merely an unsavoury cheerleader from the sides.It's a typical distortion of facts as the main backers are precisely those forces which back (and finance) the PAD.There are indeed so many ironies here.

[animatic]

I imagine Nick has his foot-clapper at the ready....

A kid shows "foot clappers" during a pro-government rally at Sanam Luang on Tuesday. The tool was made to counter "hand clappers" of anti-government protesters.

The Nation

And all along I thought showing the bottom of a foot was

the biggest insult you can give to a Thai.

But guess not,

since the so nice DAAD supporters are so happy

to show the world the bottom of their foot.

So curious they feel the need to 'counter' hand clappers at all.

What is the hand clapper such a weapon than it needs an antidote?

Still if it IS the biggest insult, and the lowest part of the body, and unclean.

why would DAAD even think this properly represents them,

unless it does for the reasons just listed:

lowest part of the body politic and unclean!

[Plus]

"Unsavoury cheerleader", if you wish. His role shot him to power, he earned a Interior Portfolio for his efforts.

He was also on Suchinda's side in 1992.

PAD is not "main backers" from 1976 days, and "main backers" role in both cases is far from clear, and it has been 30 years, a lot has changed since then, but certainly not Samak or Chalerm, who was present during 1976 massacre and insisted on the recent use of force, too.

[bassmaster50]

I must admit I was wrong about what I previously wrote on this forum. I supervised riot control squad at NY prison for many years and used chemical agents such as tear gas, and gas grenades many times. Therefore I stated that based on my experience there was no way gas grenades caused the type of injuries suffered in this disturbance. However in NY we used gas and projectiles manufactured by Federal Munitions Corp. which are non-lethal if used correctly and cannot under any circumstances blow your leg off. But apparently these Chinese munitions are capable of doing that, according to news sources. Apparently China has different meaning for crowd control. I am not giving my political opinionj on this situation, just speaking as someone with experience in crowd control and the use of chemical agents. However, it was extremely poor judgment in any case to use these kinds of munitions on a civilian crowd. I believe probably this is a result of poor training practices, as I believe that the govt. would not have intentionally used lethal munitions. I am sure they would anticipate the negative reaction that would follow such action. And to be fair to the police, as someone who has been in their position, it is not possible to subdue a mob of armed people without using some degree of force. However, they should definitely change their arsenal and tactics.

[animatic]

I must admit I was wrong about what I previously wrote on this forum. I supervised riot control squad at NY prison for many years and used chemical agents such as tear gas, and gas grenades many times. Therefore I stated that based on my experience there was no way gas grenades caused the type of injuries suffered in this disturbance. However in NY we used gas and projectiles manufactured by Federal Munitions Corp. which are non-lethal if used correctly and cannot under any circumstances blow your leg off. But apparently these Chinese munitions are capable of doing that, according to news sources. Apparently China has different meaning for crowd control. I am not giving my political opinionj on this situation, just speaking as someone with experience in crowd control and the use of chemical agents. However, it was extremely poor judgment in any case to use these kinds of munitions on a civilian crowd. I believe probably this is a result of poor training practices, as I believe that the govt. would not have intentionally used lethal munitions. I am sure they would anticipate the negative reaction that would follow such action. And to be fair to the police, as someone who has been in their position, it is not possible to subdue a mob of armed people without using some degree of force. However, they should definitely change their arsenal and tactics.

In the USA they don't get this violent putting down prison riots...

Clearly this use of force last week was for punishment

and to theoretically scare PAD off for good. I think it has had the opposite affect.

It is incredibly ironic that the two heads of the HEALTH MINISTRY Chalerm and Deputy

are the main moving forces to use force on the protestors,

that they are both ex-police and so probably see PAD as causing loss of face to the police.

And considering Chalerm's stance on drinking lately, it's doubly ironic that he was likely drunk;

seeing he was reported to be shouting.

Thai's don't like people losing their cool UNLESS quite drunk...

When they can get away with blaming the booze for their words.

But that's no way to run a country...

If he made a behind the scenes call to his old buddies and said

slap them down when you get the go ahead to clear them out.

it does make a sad pathetic but logical sense.

That recording will likely be very interesting if it ever surfaces.

But I imagine LOTS of money is being thrown at making it disappear...

Edited October 15, 2008 by animatic