mccw Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 this seems to confirm that a Russian domestic law sets a precedence for the international gold market Err no. It states how the domestic law will adversely affect Russia because of the xyz workings of the international market for large scale bullion purchases. It's the international bit that's revealing- the domestic Russian part is really neither here no there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 this seems to confirm that a Russian domestic law sets a precedence for the international gold market Err no. It states how the domestic law will adversely affect Russia because of the xyz workings of the international market for large scale bullion purchases. It's the international bit that's revealing- the domestic Russian part is really neither here no there. sure! believe what suits you. you have my blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshiwara Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 I have no hard facts But could it be that most physical gold sold is from newly mined and minted supplies while most post sale is held long term and only very rarely sold in sizeable quantities? "Paper" gold takes up the excess demand and enables the manipulation by the usual players for the usual reasons. There could well be a point where the physical demand outstrips supply and the sellers simply aren't prepared to pay this paper induced spot price. You could say in western market this has started to happen already as the premiums for physical over spot have increased. The market will break; paper worth nothing and bullion through the roof. Not for sure of course but the possibility is there. I have no hard facts No you haven't. But could it be that most physical gold sold is from newly mined and minted supplies No evidence most post sale is held long term No evidence. only very rarely sold in sizeable quantities? no evidence "Paper" gold takes up the excess demand No evidence enables the manipulation by the usual players for the usual reasons. No evidence There could well be a point where the physical demand outstrips supply Illogical. the sellers simply aren't prepared to pay this paper induced spot price. What? You could say in western market this has started to happen already as the premiums for physical over spot have increased. The market will break; paper worth nothing and bullion through the roof. Not for sure of course but the possibility is there. In your dreams Hopeless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccw Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Yoshi - the RT article basically confirms what I speculated about source of large orders coming directly from miners. Second - Bullion logically is the longer term holding as so often sighted the "paper" gold is preferable for many because of its easy trading implying a shorter holding time for trade rather than a bullion longer term as a reserve. How would a western retail investor make decent short term money when trading physical with its premiums? Why would they choose to when paper allows for much easier and bigger profits? Third - perfectly logical it would be if the increased large scale buying by central banks etc (sighted in the article and other linked sources through out this thread) started to lead to a demand greater, So the fixed contract prices from miners for delivery and retail bullion rates diverge from the fantom spot price of the unlimited supply paper market. The other way this could happen is as costs increase for the miners to get it out the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshiwara Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 I don't have a problem with paper gold. Nor do I have a problem with holding paper shares. Nor do I have a problem with trading. I don't have the stats of transactions. Let us know when you do. Overall I find it bizarre seeking out an asset which is perceived by the buyer as illiquid and yields no income, I really do. (Apart from maybe your home and your art collections) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Hopeless! i thought the same! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronz28 Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 If I could just figure out the $NUGT algos, I could make about 900% annually on the rally pivots alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccw Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I don't have a problem with paper gold. Nor do I have a problem with holding paper shares. Nor do I have a problem with trading.I don't have the stats of transactions. Let us know when you do. Overall I find it bizarre seeking out an asset which is perceived by the buyer as illiquid and yields no income, I really do. (Apart from maybe your home and your art collections) I make far more from my property business than any poxy few % share dividend. Gold is purely a reserve because I see serious risks in the whole system,/ debt house of cards. It maybe illiquid but the point is it has no counter party risk and will be there holding some value and trade able in case of currency collapse or what have you; my property will still be there but bullion is the more liquid asset. I could trade with the bank to pay mortgages off and/or have money spare is my thinking. I find it interesting the amount of absurdity in the system, mechanisms to manipulate markets, "assets" with zero collateral traded as if real, money based on nothing and created out of thin air and why this power rests where it does etc etc. What is most bizarre is the religion like clinging to and defending of these "markets" even when the manipulations are laid bare naked for all to see. Obvious scams dismissed as conspiricy until the regulators slap some minor fine about over it. Some belief and certainty that paper is always number 1. up to you. Personally I don't like the counter party risk. I don't even like too much cash in the bank. If you don't think there is any problems despite all the brokerage, banks, governments collapsing then by all means carry on happy bliss. Situation looks to be getting more unstable all the time, rising up like a huge wave before the shore. We all make our choices; I am happy with mine. Chock dee Let the looney links and wild speculation abound; it's all good entertainment. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
churchill Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 A prediction from Paul Gambles ..... Another Great Depression 'a sure thing' http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Another-Great-Depression-a-sure-thing-30188238.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midas Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 (edited) A prediction from Paul Gambles ..... Another Great Depression 'a sure thing' http://www.nationmul...g-30188238.html how can he predict that it will last for 5 to 10 years when the Japanese malaise has lasted now for over 20 ?until we can see tangible evidence of unemployment decreasing and we know exactly where these people are going to be employed and the nature of their work and probably even more importantly the level of their remuneration or salary then surely predicting how many years it will last is hyperbole? Edited August 14, 2012 by midas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 He said investors at any risk profile should now overweight on cash, which currently can offer an expected annual return of 3-4 per cent for yen, and 6-7 per cent for baht, Singapore dollars and US dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshiwara Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 He said investors at any risk profile should now overweight on cash, which currently can offer an expected annual return of 3-4 per cent for yen, and 6-7 per cent for baht, Singapore dollars and US dollars. I think he is referring to currency plays. A possible annual return on the turn, but there is no income generation as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanchobkk Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Hello guys, I know the subject must have been brought already, but I 'd like to buy gold bullion Same price in every shops right ? minimum 5 baht ? Do the shop can keep it for you for a fee ? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 He said investors at any risk profile should now overweight on cash, which currently can offer an expected annual return of 3-4 per cent for yen, and 6-7 per cent for baht, Singapore dollars and US dollars. I think he is referring to currency plays. A possible annual return on the turn, but there is no income generation as such. i don't see any indication that he means currency plays. but whatever, 1½ years ago he posted ad nauseam warnings concerning the "biggest basket case AUD" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshiwara Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Hello guys, I know the subject must have been brought already, but I 'd like to buy gold bullion Same price in every shops right ? minimum 5 baht ? Do the shop can keep it for you for a fee ? Thanks If you want to store physical valuables why not just rent a storage box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midas Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Hello guys, I know the subject must have been brought already, but I 'd like to buy gold bullion Same price in every shops right ? minimum 5 baht ? Do the shop can keep it for you for a fee ? Thanks If you want to store physical valuables why not just rent a storage box? I definitely don't recommend to you to keep it in the shop many banks offer safety deposit boxes and if you have a bank account in Thailand they will probably let you rent a box. Depending on size the rent varies between 3000 to 8000 baht per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Hello guys, I know the subject must have been brought already, but I 'd like to buy gold bullion Same price in every shops right ? minimum 5 baht ? Do the shop can keep it for you for a fee ? Thanks If you want to store physical valuables why not just rent a storage box? I definitely don't recommend to you to keep it in the shop many banks offer safety deposit boxes and if you have a bank account in Thailand they will probably let you rent a box. Depending on size the rent varies between 3000 to 8000 baht per year. most probably your chance is very low to get a box in one of the bigger cities/towns. the rent is peanuts but you have to get your own insurance for an insame amount of money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudhopper Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 (edited) Hello guys, I know the subject must have been brought already, but I 'd like to buy gold bullion Same price in every shops right ? minimum 5 baht ? Do the shop can keep it for you for a fee ? Thanks Ola Sancho you can usually find 1, 2 and 3 baht bars as well as 5, 10 and larger. No minimum. 100 baht/baht is a common commission. Use the cabeza for a better storage strategy though... edit - I haven't personally bought any for some years now so things may have changed... Edited August 19, 2012 by cloudhopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshiwara Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Hello guys, I know the subject must have been brought already, but I 'd like to buy gold bullion Same price in every shops right ? minimum 5 baht ? Do the shop can keep it for you for a fee ? Thanks If you want to store physical valuables why not just rent a storage box? I definitely don't recommend to you to keep it in the shop many banks offer safety deposit boxes and if you have a bank account in Thailand they will probably let you rent a box. Depending on size the rent varies between 3000 to 8000 baht per year. most probably your chance is very low to get a box in one of the bigger cities/towns. the rent is peanuts but you have to get your own insurance for an insame amount of money I just don't see the attraction of holding physical assets of this type in Thailand against the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
churchill Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 China’s gold ambitions http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2012/08/17/sunny-skies-a-glimpse-into-chinas-gold-ambitions/#axzz243ACEJoI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midas Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 (edited) If you want to store physical valuables why not just rent a storage box? I definitely don't recommend to you to keep it in the shop many banks offer safety deposit boxes and if you have a bank account in Thailand they will probably let you rent a box. Depending on size the rent varies between 3000 to 8000 baht per year. most probably your chance is very low to get a box in one of the bigger cities/towns. the rent is peanuts but you have to get your own insurance for an insame amount of money I just don't see the attraction of holding physical assets of this type in Thailand against the risk. I have never regarded it as an attraction but I do regard it as a necessity for what could lie ahead? Each to their own. You advocate shares whereas this is something I could not possibly consider with such instability in the world and also with such dishonesty at every level. Edited August 20, 2012 by midas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Chinese people buy less than 5 grams of gold per capita annually, compared to a global average of more than 20 grams, he says, citing the World Gold Council, a lobby group for the gold miners.http://blogs.ft.com/.../#axzz243ACEJoI the World Gold Council Bullshitters² bank on the naïveté and downright stupidity of its followers/believers with a statement like this. notwithstanding the fact that any "per capita" figures are BS anybody with a pocket calculator can pinpoint the flaw rubbish published. global 'capita'.................~7,000,000,000 China.............................~1,350,000,000 x 5g = 6,750 tons global balance................~5,650,000,000 x 20g = 28,000 tons total global gold purchase.................................= 34,750 tons total global gold production p.a..........................= ~2,500 tons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
churchill Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 Chinese people buy less than 5 grams of gold per capita annually, compared to a global average of more than 20 grams, he says, citing the World Gold Council, a lobby group for the gold miners.http://blogs.ft.com/.../#axzz243ACEJoI the World Gold Council Bullshitters² bank on the naïveté and downright stupidity of its followers/believers with a statement like this. notwithstanding the fact that any "per capita" figures are BS anybody with a pocket calculator can pinpoint the flaw rubbish published. global 'capita'.................~7,000,000,000 China.............................~1,350,000,000 x 5g = 6,750 tons global balance................~5,650,000,000 x 20g = 28,000 tons total global gold purchase.................................= 34,750 tons total global gold production p.a..........................= ~2,500 tons You forgot in your" Bullshiters" calculation those that are selling existing gold .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Chinese people buy less than 5 grams of gold per capita annually, compared to a global average of more than 20 grams, he says, citing the World Gold Council, a lobby group for the gold miners.http://blogs.ft.com/.../#axzz243ACEJoI the World Gold Council Bullshitters² bank on the naïveté and downright stupidity of its followers/believers with a statement like this. notwithstanding the fact that any "per capita" figures are BS anybody with a pocket calculator can pinpoint the flaw rubbish published. global 'capita'.................~7,000,000,000 China.............................~1,350,000,000 x 5g = 6,750 tons global balance................~5,650,000,000 x 20g = 28,000 tons total global gold purchase.................................= 34,750 tons total global gold production p.a..........................= ~2,500 tons You forgot in your" Bullshiters" calculation those that are selling existing gold .... yeah right... all of the nearly 35,000 tons (1.15 billion ounces)? every year more than 20% of all existing gold changes hands? World Gold Bullshitters maths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midas Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 A prediction from Paul Gambles ..... Another Great Depression 'a sure thing' http://www.nationmul...g-30188238.html how can he predict that it will last for 5 to 10 years when the Japanese malaise has lasted now for over 20 ?until we can see tangible evidence of unemployment decreasing and we know exactly where these people are going to be employed and the nature of their work and probably even more importantly the level of their remuneration or salary then surely predicting how many years it will last is hyperbole? tangible evidence of unemployment decreasing it's just not going to happen................the elephant in the room Skilled Work, Without the Worker http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/business/new-wave-of-adept-robots-is-changing-global-industry.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshiwara Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I have never regarded it as an attraction but I do regard it as a necessity for what could lie ahead? Each to their own. You advocate shares whereas this is something I could not possibly consider with such instability in the world and also with such dishonesty at every level. The point I was trying to make here was not so much about holding physical assets of this type per se, but more the risk of holding them in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudhopper Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 The point I was trying to make here was not so much about holding physical assets of this type per se, but more the risk of holding them in Thailand. IMO the odds of gold becoming restricted or heavily taxed is far greater in the US. I'd much rather have to get rid of 100 baht here than 100 eagles in the US and it would be far quicker, easier and more anonymous too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I think gold might see a new push upwards soon, because the AUD is losing its attractiveness (safe heaven and low yield compared to negative yield elsewhere), the EUR and CHF are still ugly (except if the CHF breaks its peg, unlikely), and the USD is still not in good shape. I didn't before, but I am now seriously thinking about shifting into gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 EUR and CHF are still ugly there's not much to harvest in CHF but i like the "ugly" ~11% (calculated vs. USD) in EUR denominated subs of the last 5-6 weeks thanks to Draghi. should rumours come true that Merkel backs Draghi i expect another 3-5% within days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 EUR and CHF are still ugly there's not much to harvest in CHF but i like the "ugly" ~11% (calculated vs. USD) in EUR denominated subs of the last 5-6 weeks thanks to Draghi. should rumours come true that Merkel backs Draghi i expect another 3-5% within days. You are right, but I mainly trade FX with about 200% to 300% leverage, so going long in EUR would scare the shit out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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