International Supermarkets

[Koo82]

For daily food buying, I often stick to the local market. They have the fresh pork of the day and fish are still jumping. I like to buy from those poor people knowing they grow / catch things themselves (corns, peanuts, vegetables, fish, farm crabs, etc.) and not from the retailers. Once I bought the sugar canes around 8am, I asked the farmer what time she went to market when she was about to pack and go home (thinking to myself why she didn't stay longer trying to catch more buyers). She said she was at the market since 1am. Very touching seeing how poor people make their living. Buying from them is all I can do to help them. I recall I didn't buy anything in the 7-Eleven near my home in the whole year. 1am she was in the market when other people were at bars drinking beers / wines and died in a fire.

I like to shop at Makro as their vegetable is very fresh. I like to shop at Tesco Lotus as they often have the buy one get one free promotion. Big supermarket chains are not everywhere. If I'm not on the way, I won't drive that far to shop in there.

[bkkjames]

hey comeback and play!!!

ok. I don't have alot of sympathy for row after row of little shops selling outdated mama noodles and soft drinks losing business to 711's or hypermarkets.

funny thing happens when you give people a choice - they usually go for the one that is better.

competition is an interesting concept for those who fear it.

[dee123]

hey comeback and play!!!

ok. I don't have alot of sympathy for row after row of little shops selling outdated mama noodles and soft drinks losing business to 711's or hypermarkets.

funny thing happens when you give people a choice - they usually go for the one that is better.

competition is an interesting concept for those who fear it.

Hypermarkets can put farmers out of business if they only use the one who is prepared to sell cheap,which would mean bulk buying so bigger landowners gain. its unfair for smaller farms as they dont order in bulk they can not cut their prices,what happens to the communnities that once grew produce this way is my concern,...where do they go,...for a living, i mean...its not substainable in the long run,even so basically this system is re-directing the profits away from locals to international stockmarkets,...and we all know what happened there!!

[dee123]

when anyone mentions "competition" or "afraid of competition",.....remember ALL the cases of Hypermarkets using all their power and soliciters to use tactics like buying a piece of a road so their competitors cannot drive their trucks to store,...(OH YES THIS HAPPENED IN UK).....then ask yourself who is it really that is afraid of competition?,..yes the Hypermarkets do their research buy up land,...keep it as secret as they can then when others want to compete they find its impossible!!......

Edited January 12, 2009 by dee123

[dee123]

ridiculas again ,..and you have yet to answer anything like why you said thousands then changed it to 400 600or is that the white flag

per shop, you.....thousands and tens of thousands altogether work for hypermarkets in Thailand and how many for 4000 of 7-11s and other small shop killing busineses

sorry but you have totally missed the point again,...7-11 are multi nationals too.....iv'e never had an argument with someone who is so off the mark!!

Edited January 12, 2009 by dee123

[mrtoad]

lousy service?....just visit my local sainsburys I'LL SHOW YOU LOUSY SERVICE

You have Sainsbury's in Chayaphum?

[dee123]

noi 'm back in UK ,...Chaiyaphum has Tesco and Makro,,,,,,yes I use them too but what I am saying is what happens to the local infrastructure does it mean the big eating the small and the profits heading for stockbrokers bonuse's or what,.....and what happens to the quality of life when factories take over the workforce

Edited January 12, 2009 by dee123

[Geekfreaklover]

It's good as a consumer to have the choice of either buying from a little mom and pop shop or a Tescos. We go to different shops for diffrent reasons. Convience and price are the main reasons we go to a certain shop and that is where the supermarkets win. They provide an all in one stop shop. The local mom and pop shops are handy if you want to buy certain items (beer between 2 and 5pm!) but they simply can not compete. Many locals consider Tesco's to be a day out with the family!

I recall back in the UK when the pertrol stations began to have minimarts attached and local corner shops businesses were destroyed. Then came the large supermarkets, and with their buying power put all the local butchers, green grocers, off licences, candle stick makers etc out of business.

Apparently Tescos takes one pound out of every ten from every UK resident. Scary when you thinkl about it.

[dee123]

yep,that is a balanced view Greakfreaklover,...you have acknowleged that small business's are at risk....i wish others would

[dumball]

In the small Ban where my wife grew up it wasn't until recently that the locals could have managed to survive by the Barter system,with everyone growing fruits and veg raising cattle and fishermen fishing,then selling at market.Things have now changed with the arrival of giant Supermarket chains like Tesco and Makro,(and their litter/garbage issues) .ect The hygeine has benefited admittedly but as far as I can see practically nothing else,as less and less of the Thai locals can now hand down their business's to the next generation.Instead unhealthy foods are becoming part of the next generations diet,and everyone wanting to move abroad.How far should the Thai people let the Multi nationals proceed,..should they learn from the West's mistakes before it's too late and tell the(farang and Thai)Supermarkets to go for a HIKE !! For we have learned in the West that these Giant's if not tightly regulated will slowly but surely take-over all of the retail sector then proceed to telecomunications petrol supply ect,....you name it, they will monopolise it.What is the best course of action to avoid this and give the Fat Cat's the boot?Should an "unfair competition Tax" be introduced ?

Let us all go back to the original post , it was not until recently that the locals could survive by the 'Barter system ' , things have now changed with the arrival of .... WHOA there a moment , something or some thinking HAS changed , so what is that ? The people have changed that's what , they are no longer content with thier 1,000s year old style of living and survival , with a true bartering system they could survive another 1,000 years totally oblivious of the outside world and all of its consumerism . Want has taken over from 'Need ' , the people are the only ones to blame for any predicament they feel is caused by these OUTSIDE INFLUENCES , they could easily have continued in the old ways , as detrimental as many of these ways are , with no deference to thier way of life . I believe the word bandied around is greed , for what others have they feel an entitlement to possess also , despite not having the wherewithal to obtain it . Progression is what brings about the true fruits of ones labour , a refusal to change to achieve , happens to be a neccessity only to those not willing to labour for future gains , life does not come easy in this ever changeing global economy .

[endure]

It's good as a consumer to have the choice of either buying from a little mom and pop shop or a Tescos. We go to different shops for diffrent reasons. Convience and price are the main reasons we go to a certain shop and that is where the supermarkets win. They provide an all in one stop shop. The local mom and pop shops are handy if you want to buy certain items (beer between 2 and 5pm!) but they simply can not compete. Many locals consider Tesco's to be a day out with the family!

I recall back in the UK when the pertrol stations began to have minimarts attached and local corner shops businesses were destroyed. Then came the large supermarkets, and with their buying power put all the local butchers, green grocers, off licences, candle stick makers etc out of business.

Apparently Tescos takes one pound out of every ten from every UK resident. Scary when you thinkl about it.

That's strange. Within a mile of my house in my small Midlands town I have a butchers, a greengrocer, an off-licence, a mini-mart, 2 'corner shops', a small (Co-op) supermarket. One of the corner shops and the Co-op are recent additions but the others have been there for 20 years.

[Brigante7]

Trat, a relatively wealthy province, is still without any big shopping mall or department store. Teso bought land already, but no permission was granted by the local authority.

Was in Cha-Am last year, it has no big supermarkets, only a small tesco express, don't know if the town is better for it, I was only there for 6 days.

[tartempion]

A rather small Tesco-Lotus opened 3 months ago in my amphur Nong Han, 8kms away from my place.

We visited day 1 together with all the inhabitants of the amphur and bought an assortment of fresh unseen salads in the region.

Everything looked and was fresh day 1.

Returned a few times, the unseen salads are unseen since then. The fresh vegs and meets are no longer fresh.

When I pointed my GF to the labels showing packing day was this day she asked: looking at the meat you believe that???

NO, I don't....

So for us, it's back to the 6am morning village market and The Tesco-lotus 50kms away once a week.

I wonder when they will close the local new Tesco, I am fairly sure the place will not survive 2009, even not month 6 of 2009.

Further to this, the amphur has plenti of mini-super markets all selling the same rubbish as the local Tesco.

A new one opened 1 month ago, a man who built a new mini-super to replace his old one. During my one and only visit there he told me he borrowed 20 million baht from the bank to build the place. The amphur surely needed one more of these places

[Gertrude]

I love them.

There is also much benefit to the Thai economy.

Staff who work in them, and they are huge employers, pay taxes.

Most of the locals shop in them, and resell at a profit.

Thais now realise that they don't have to eat the crap sold to them in the open markets.

They realise they can have clean meat that hasn't been hanging around on a stall all day at 30 degrees, and free of road dust and fly sh^t.

Most of these chain stores sponsor local charities.

And don't forget, we are now into the 21st century!

Wake UP.

[Geekfreaklover]

It's good as a consumer to have the choice of either buying from a little mom and pop shop or a Tescos. We go to different shops for diffrent reasons. Convience and price are the main reasons we go to a certain shop and that is where the supermarkets win. They provide an all in one stop shop. The local mom and pop shops are handy if you want to buy certain items (beer between 2 and 5pm!) but they simply can not compete. Many locals consider Tesco's to be a day out with the family!

I recall back in the UK when the pertrol stations began to have minimarts attached and local corner shops businesses were destroyed. Then came the large supermarkets, and with their buying power put all the local butchers, green grocers, off licences, candle stick makers etc out of business.

Apparently Tescos takes one pound out of every ten from every UK resident. Scary when you thinkl about it.

That's strange. Within a mile of my house in my small Midlands town I have a butchers, a greengrocer, an off-licence, a mini-mart, 2 'corner shops', a small (Co-op) supermarket. One of the corner shops and the Co-op are recent additions but the others have been there for 20 years.

I was referring to the South East of England. The Midlands is obviously a decade or so behind.

[Birdman]

Trat, a relatively wealthy province, is still without any big shopping mall or department store. Teso bought land already, but no permission was granted by the local authority.

Was in Cha-Am last year, it has no big supermarkets, only a small tesco express, don't know if the town is better for it, I was only there for 6 days.

Trat is a province, Cha Am is a city in Petchaburi.

Wonder, if Trat is the last province without big shopping malls or department stores in Thailand?

[geeky]

dee123 ... breath in, breath out ...

big chains like that have a profit margin of 1%, which is enough as they work with huge numbers, but the fact remains that 99% of the money they receive is needed to make payments, largely to all kind of Thai companies, they sell more then fresh food you know and if you pay attention, the vast majority of products they sell is in fact Thai, or imported by Thai companies, so they help the economy on a larger scale in many, many ways ... not to mention the fact that they had to cut a deal with the government and are p[aying lots of taxes ... you think mom and pop are complaining about the new road?

the whole problem in this discussion is that your freaking out about the fact that some small stores will go under, yes that's unfortunately, but on a bigger scale, these tesco's are helping the Thai economy in many ways !!

what about this ... you tell me, what's best ... young girl goes working 10km from her home in a tesco or she prostitute herself 500km away in Bkk ... tell me, what is it you wish for that young girl?

[thaihome]

the majority of shoppers in these big markets are thai and lots of mom and pops since there carts are loaded with 100's of the same things. they have a chance to buy things they could not before and resell it.

Of course.

In my wife's street upcountry, there are 4 shops in the garages of houses, all within 100m.

The way their supplies come is - someone goes to (60km distant) Sa Kaew by pickup truck, loads it at Tesco there, brings back and resells to the shops. Then, they resell to their neighbours from the shelves.

None of those shops existed before arrival of Tesco to Sa Kaew several years back.

Just one small correction there TTM, the Tesco (mostly refered to as Lotus) in Sa Kaew is very recent, maybe 6 months or so, and the Makro next door not much older. Do agree that there are a lot more small shops selling stuff bought at Lotus in the surrounding villages.

The OP is obviously one of the idealistic people that think holding back progress is the way to help Thai people. He knows what is best for them, even if they don’t agree.

TH

[thaihome]

I now remember (too late to edit the post) there is no Lotus in Sa Kaew, it's a Big C.

TH

[henryalleman]

Smaller retailers had to adapt to the new competition or go out of business, both of which happened to many. It is an evolution of retailing. Many small shops focussed on quality, or niche products delivered to the consumer with outstanding service. In other words areas which the big boys can not compete, and they thrived.

Correct, 30 years ago small retailers where almost out of business in my country, but the reorganised themselves in the way you wrote. Now its the big chains who loose market share. Mark & Spencer disappeared, Carrefour is planning to close all their hyper markets in the country because the last 10 years they lost money.

All because the independent retailers, butchers, bakers, Fish, vegetable and Clothing shops are giving their clients a service and niche products that the big players can't give. And all of this on prices that are often lower because they unite themselves, sometimes even on European level. Also small independent supermarkets( 2 to 400 square meters) are doing very well.

When you stroll in a shopping street in my country where there are 50 clothes shops, every shops have different designs. When you go to a shopping mall in Thailand everybody sell exactly the same clothes, to give you only one example.

IMHO there is also a different attitude. When I see the mom and pop shops sometimes(?) I get the feeling that they open a shop to make ends meet but not to expand their business and become successful business people.

BTW markets are pure horror, narrow, dirty, dark, stinking and a total lack of hygiene.They should not be surprised they loose costumers. lucky there are some changes like Autoko in BKK near by Khampaeng Pet road, and I saw few others on trips in the country.

[wamberal]

The big danger of big supermarkets is that, after they have driven the little guys out of business by providing better goods at lower prices (theoretically), they can then enjoy a monopoly status. Then, of course, they can forget about quality, and raise their prices.

The small producers and small retailers need to start producing and selling niche products - organics and the like - there is always plenty of room for competition at the margins left by the big guys.

[henryalleman]

All world beef comes from 3-4 large (yet obscure) conglomerates.

Maybe you don't know it, but there is an whole world outside the US. That's why you don't seems to know that there is a ban on US meat in the EU because US meat contains hormones what is forbidden in the EU, and that in the EU that agriculture and meat sector is completely different organised than in the US.

So maybe you have some conglomerates in the US, but by my knowledge nothing similar in the EU; Of course you are always free to prove I'm wrong.

[henryalleman]

The big danger of big supermarkets is that, after they have driven the little guys out of business by providing better goods at lower prices (theoretically), they can then enjoy a monopoly status. Then, of course, they can forget about quality, and raise their prices.

I don't think so, because there is a fierce competition amongst themselves for market share.

But what many people don't know that there are price difference amongst supermarkets off the same chain depending on location or competitors in the neighbourhood. Prices in Pattaya, Chiang Mai, Udon and Phuket are not always the same in a supermarket chain. I know this by professional experience.

[Geekfreaklover]

The big danger of big supermarkets is that, after they have driven the little guys out of business by providing better goods at lower prices (theoretically), they can then enjoy a monopoly status. Then, of course, they can forget about quality, and raise their prices.

I don't think so, because there is a fierce competition amongst themselves for market share.

But what many people don't know that there are price difference amongst supermarkets off the same chain depending on location or competitors in the neighbourhood. Prices in Pattaya, Chiang Mai, Udon and Phuket are not always the same in a supermarket chain. I know this by professional experience.

Ex shelf-stacker?

Sorry Henry. I couldn't resist making the comment.

I'll get me coat.

[henryalleman]

The big danger of big supermarkets is that, after they have driven the little guys out of business by providing better goods at lower prices (theoretically), they can then enjoy a monopoly status. Then, of course, they can forget about quality, and raise their prices.

I don't think so, because there is a fierce competition amongst themselves for market share.

But what many people don't know that there are price difference amongst supermarkets off the same chain depending on location or competitors in the neighbourhood. Prices in Pattaya, Chiang Mai, Udon and Phuket are not always the same in a supermarket chain. I know this by professional experience.

Ex shelf-stacker?

Sorry Henry. I couldn't resist making the comment.

I'll get me coat.

No no, that's was too much responsibility, collecting the shopping trolley's outside was more suitable with my ability's

[wamberal]

The big danger of big supermarkets is that, after they have driven the little guys out of business by providing better goods at lower prices (theoretically), they can then enjoy a monopoly status. Then, of course, they can forget about quality, and raise their prices.

I don't think so, because there is a fierce competition amongst themselves for market share.

But what many people don't know that there are price difference amongst supermarkets off the same chain depending on location or competitors in the neighbourhood. Prices in Pattaya, Chiang Mai, Udon and Phuket are not always the same in a supermarket chain. I know this by professional experience.

"Fierce competition" depends upon there being at least two serious competitors within close proximity to each other. Lots of times, there isn't a second serious competitor, and when the little guys go, that's when the big guy can make hay.

Incidentally, I am not saying that big supermarkets are necessarily bad. But predatory pricing, which attacks the small guys, is bad. The big guys have big pockets, they can afford to run loss leaders for a long time. Little guys cannot. When the little guys are gone, price levels revert to "whatever the market will bear".

Otherwise, why would there be price differences amongst supermarkets of the same chain in different locations depending upon competitors, as you say above? That is a tacit admission that, if competition is fierce, they can lower their prices - the corollary is, of course, that when competition is not fierce, they can raise them again.

[think_too_mut]

Otherwise, why would there be price differences amongst supermarkets of the same chain in different locations

Is it same cost to ferry goods to Tesco in Pattaya and Tesco at Koh Samui?

Edited January 14, 2009 by think_too_mut

[thaihome]

Otherwise, why would there be price differences amongst supermarkets of the same chain in different locations

Is it same cost to ferry goods to Tesco in Pattaya and Tesco at Koh Samui?

There you go again, using Economics 101 in a debate. That’s just not fair

TH

[bkkjames]

I love them.

There is also much benefit to the Thai economy.

Staff who work in them, and they are huge employers, pay taxes.

Most of the locals shop in them, and resell at a profit.

Thais now realise that they don't have to eat the crap sold to them in the open markets.

They realise they can have clean meat that hasn't been hanging around on a stall all day at 30 degrees, and free of road dust and fly sh^t.

Most of these chain stores sponsor local charities.

And don't forget, we are now into the 21st century!

Wake UP.

Taxes, an interesting concept, I wonder how many of these little mom and pop shops pay a baht in tax - the ringing of two tills.

[wamberal]

Otherwise, why would there be price differences amongst supermarkets of the same chain in different locations

Is it same cost to ferry goods to Tesco in Pattaya and Tesco at Koh Samui?

Mmmmmm. Maybe there are occasional examples, at the margins, of prices varying other than because of the absence or presence of viable competitors.

What does this have to do with the point I was making, which was about price differentials caused by the absence or presence of viable competition? Or are you suggesting that the only reason that Tesco's prices vary from one store to another is because of genuine cost differentials?

Edited January 14, 2009 by wamberal