The Thing About Thai Men

[Boo]

So then other opinions, of a different expereince are not allowed to be expressed then mc2? How bizarre that is.

[Lancelot]

Interesting to hear the ladies discuss the attributes of Thai men. I've dated Thai women and had both positive and negative experiences. I think most problems stem from people of different classes mixing together. I don't mean that interms of hi so types are inherently good but if people would not date a gold digger type back home why would they do it here? Just my two satang

[girlx]

So then other opinions, of a different expereince are not allowed to be expressed then mc2? How bizarre that is. wink.gif

who said you can't express your opinion? and how is my saying sarcastically that your husband must be perfect and not have any of the qualities of thai culture that i described, any worse than you saying i must have a scumbag radar, hang out with bad guys, be bitter from my experiences, and need to find joy in my life? stop being hypocritical!

we simply disagree. however there are many books and posts etc. written to support my observations on thai culture and it's differences from western culture.

But if your experiences are all one thing or the other or recur on a regular basis then you have to take a look at yourself and ask yourself why the same things keep happening over and over again.

Is it possible that all single Thai men in Thailand are this bad? I mean, really?

one thing you guys always seem to miss is that i am NOT saying thai guys are bad. i am saying i can not accept their differences in priorities- i prefer to be with someone who shares mine.

Edited February 19, 2009 by girlx

[LadyHeather]

I'm sorry if you meant that as a dig at you, it most certainly wasn't. But it seems to me that if you are not finding men whose values you share then you need to look at the men you are meeting. I am sure there are Thai men who embrace these values, but clearly you are not finding them. I think that you will, perhaps, find an equally difficult time finding western men who share these values as well, since on my short time on this forum, it appears that most men come here for Thai women and that the few who don't come here specifically for women are here for jobs or travelling.

Or another thought about the good Thai men is that perhaps they are already married and not interested in cheating? Thai people in general marry quite young and it would seem a likely possibility that if you are over the age of about 30 and dating men of a similar age then these are the ones already rejected by Thai women as unsuitable in some way. And of course, the happily married decent guys wouldn't be interested in you, as they are happily married and decent and wouldn't be trying to pick up western woman.

Edited February 19, 2009 by LadyHeather

[mc2]

So then other opinions, of a different expereince are not allowed to be expressed then mc2? How bizarre that is.

on a different note,

i would be interested in hearing about successful relationships between thai-farang, how they got it to work.

i agree with what has said before, there are cultural barriers to getting things working for most people .

[Boo]

I never said bitter & my comnment abot scumbag radar was a joke Sorry if you didn't get that. I know loads of my friends, all nice decent women who attract nothing but pricks. Not entirely their fault as they just seem to have an inbuilt radar what these guys gravitate to. But you yourself said the thai guys you meet are no good so i can only conclude that you are attracting the worst type of men, Whether it is anything you do or not I can't comment on.

And I meant what I said about hoping you find some joy in your life, from other threads I have seen, you often sound dissatisfied with your life in Thailand.

[girlx]

I have said a couple times actually that I am not talking specifically about the guys I have dated. And also, I don't recall ever saying that my ex Thai boyfriends were no good. In fact they are good guys, with some very admirable traits, and I still speak with them even now as friends. But as boyfriends, I could not accept their ways of thinking and their behavior- it often clashed with my most fundamental values.

Yes, I am dissatisfied with life in Thailand, but that is mostly because I am frustrated having been here in Bangkok (which I was treating as a waystation) so long and not being able to return to NYC right now because of the bad economy. I want to get a move on with my life and save money etc. but am kind of stuck here for now.... Don't confuse that with my being bitter about past relationships. I am frustrated by them at times in retrospect, but not hung up.

On this particular branch, certain ladies seem overly defensive. I expect that is because you have found someone you love and you don't like to hear anything that might be taken as a slight towards them. But just because I analyze Thai culture in the way that I do, does not mean I am judging them in a harsh light. To a Thai lady for instance, the fact that a man will avoid being straightforward in order to keep the peace is a very admirable trait. To me it is not. So it is simply my own aversion to their cultural traits here, not my saying that they are bad people. Same with the non-monogamy thing. To a lot of cultures, having more than one woman going is also an admirable and acceptable thing. To me, it is not. Not saying either side is bad, just that I grew up and formed my own opinions on certain things in ways that are diametrically opposite to a lot of Asian perspectives on things, and as I am not willing to compromise on my values, I do not foresee a successful relationship between me and anyone with a traditional Thai (or possibly Asian) background. My observations may not be the same as yours. And some of you are failing to see I don't apply them across the board. But for the majority, in my experience, there are certain definite traits that are instilled in the people of this culture, and that is that.

But it seems to me that if you are not finding men whose values you share then you need to look at the men you are meeting. I am sure there are Thai men who embrace these values, but clearly you are not finding them. I think that you will, perhaps, find an equally difficult time finding western men who share these values as well, since on my short time on this forum, it appears that most men come here for Thai women and that the few who don't come here specifically for women are here for jobs or travelling.

I have met Thai men who share some of my values- for instance my last Thai boyfriend was extremely straightforward and honest. But in other ways he was too "Thai" for me in his approach to things. I like Thai guys a lot, I have fun with them, but I simply won't stay long term with one because we are not as compatible as I have been in the past with my western boyfriends.

Or another thought about the good Thai men is that perhaps they are already married and not interested in cheating? Thai people in general marry quite young and it would seem a likely possibility that if you are over the age of about 30 and dating men of a similar age then these are the ones already rejected by Thai women as unsuitable in some way. And of course, the happily married decent guys wouldn't be interested in you, as they are happily married and decent and wouldn't be trying to pick up western woman

Er, no... "happily" married men have tried very often to pick me up or pick up friends of mine. Their wives don't know and the men seem to think as long as that is the case all is well. which maybe it is, who knows! It still seems very acceptable to most (not all) Thai men. This seems to apply to Luk Kreungs I have met too, but that might just be because they have tended to be walking egos.

Edited February 19, 2009 by girlx

[LadyHeather]

Perhaps "happily" married men have tried to pick you up, but I am talking about the ones who have not tried to pick you up. I know happily married men who do not try to pick me up. Is it possible that there are men out there who really are happily married that really do not have anything to do with you because you have nothing they want? Something to consider when assuming that the married men who try to pick you up are indicative of anything other than the fact that they are not happily married.

Edited February 19, 2009 by LadyHeather

[girlx]

Is it possible that there are men out there who really are happily married that really do not have anything to do with you because you have nothing they want?

yeah sure, of course those men exist.

Something to consider when assuming that the married men who try to pick you up are indicative of anything other than the fact that they are not happily married.

however, my point is, that the men who have tried it on with me ARE happily married from their own perspective.

Edited February 19, 2009 by girlx

[john b good]

I have said a couple times actually that I am not talking specifically about the guys I have dated. And also, I don't recall ever saying that my ex Thai boyfriends were no good. In fact they are good guys, with some very admirable traits, and I still speak with them even now as friends. But as boyfriends, I could not accept their ways of thinking and their behavior- it often clashed with my most fundamental values.

Yes, I am dissatisfied with life in Thailand, but that is mostly because I am frustrated having been here in Bangkok (which I was treating as a waystation) so long and not being able to return to NYC right now because of the bad economy. I want to get a move on with my life and save money etc. but am kind of stuck here for now.... Don't confuse that with my being bitter about past relationships. I am frustrated by them at times in retrospect, but not hung up.

On this particular branch, certain ladies seem overly defensive. I expect that is because you have found someone you love and you don't like to hear anything that might be taken as a slight towards them. But just because I analyze Thai culture in the way that I do, does not mean I am judging them in a harsh light. To a Thai lady for instance, the fact that a man will avoid being straightforward in order to keep the peace is a very admirable trait. To me it is not. So it is simply my own aversion to their cultural traits here, not my saying that they are bad people. Same with the non-monogamy thing. To a lot of cultures, having more than one woman going is also an admirable and acceptable thing. To me, it is not. Not saying either side is bad, just that I grew up and formed my own opinions on certain things in ways that are diametrically opposite to a lot of Asian perspectives on things, and as I am not willing to compromise on my values, I do not foresee a successful relationship between me and anyone with a traditional Thai (or possibly Asian) background. My observations may not be the same as yours. And some of you are failing to see I don't apply them across the board. But for the majority, in my experience, there are certain definite traits that are instilled in the people of this culture, and that is that.

But it seems to me that if you are not finding men whose values you share then you need to look at the men you are meeting. I am sure there are Thai men who embrace these values, but clearly you are not finding them. I think that you will, perhaps, find an equally difficult time finding western men who share these values as well, since on my short time on this forum, it appears that most men come here for Thai women and that the few who don't come here specifically for women are here for jobs or travelling.

I have met Thai men who share some of my values- for instance my last Thai boyfriend was extremely straightforward and honest. But in other ways he was too "Thai" for me in his approach to things. I like Thai guys a lot, I have fun with them, but I simply won't stay long term with one because we are not as compatible as I have been in the past with my western boyfriends.

Or another thought about the good Thai men is that perhaps they are already married and not interested in cheating? Thai people in general marry quite young and it would seem a likely possibility that if you are over the age of about 30 and dating men of a similar age then these are the ones already rejected by Thai women as unsuitable in some way. And of course, the happily married decent guys wouldn't be interested in you, as they are happily married and decent and wouldn't be trying to pick up western woman

Er, no... "happily" married men have tried very often to pick me up or pick up friends of mine. Their wives don't know and the men seem to think as long as that is the case all is well. which maybe it is, who knows! It still seems very acceptable to most (not all) Thai men. This seems to apply to Luk Kreungs I have met too, but that might just be because they have tended to be walking egos.

"to a Thai lady for instance, the fact that a man will avoid being straightforward in order to keep the peace is a very admirable trait"

And this to me is what it is all about.

It doesn't matter if it is a Thai man or a Thai lady who is not being "straightforward" (in order to keep the peace) it is deceitful and downright dishonest at the very least.

I will never know about Thai men (in the context of this thread) but I have acquired a little bit of experience with Thai females (I am married to one after all) and avoiding issues in the name of keeping the peace is not the way to go, at least not for me.

The issues remain and, they remain unresolved. If one is happy with that so be it. But it is not for me.

Get the issues on the table and resolve them. If they are left unresolved they will continue to fester and in the end will poison the relationship.

[Boo]

I agreee with you John but there is an assumption from some people who haven't found these qualities in a partner, that they must also be missing in other peoples relationships. This is where my annoyance comes from in threads like this.

[girlx]

well sorry that it came across that way... that's not what i mean at all. what i may have implied is that your husband, being Thai, probably does have some of those traits, but that you are able to accept those things about him and live in harmony. whereas, i cannot. not because i hate Thai guys or Thai culture, but because i am pretty militant about my principles, which are very very western. i could see a Thai guy coming to New York and trying to date a western girl, and running into a lot of the same problems. what it boils down to is how much you are willing to compromise.

[Boo]

what i may have implied is that your husband, being Thai, probably does have some of those traits, but that you are able to accept those things about him and live in harmony.

And you would be wrong. We have both had to compromise as in any relationship on the mundane day to day things but IMO a relationship cannot succeed unless compromise is taken by both sides regardless of where they come from.

But going by your original post, you assume then, that I (and anyone else married with a thai man?) would put up with those things you claim is inheraent in them all & that is how those marraiges survived!! How rude.

But fyi, he doesn't lie, he doesn't cheat, he doesn't have low morals, I can't remmeber what else but i think you can get the point....

Think outside the box.

[spectrum]

well sorry that it came across that way... that's not what i mean at all. what i may have implied is that your husband, being Thai, probably does have some of those traits, but that you are able to accept those things about him and live in harmony. whereas, i cannot. not because i hate Thai guys or Thai culture, but because i am pretty militant about my principles, which are very very western. i could see a Thai guy coming to New York and trying to date a western girl, and running into a lot of the same problems. what it boils down to is how much you are willing to compromise.

Well said, girlx.

I agree with your comments, wholeheartedly.

I believe you took particular care not to suggest your comments applied to all Thai men/people.

[sbk]

Actually, no, my husband does not have any of those traits. He, like his father, is extraordinarily honest, for any culture (needless to say my FIL has few friends since, if you ask him his opinion, he will tell you). Neither is he afraid of confrontation, but rather is willing to listen and talk about issues when both of us are calm enough to deal with them in a rational manner. Not to say we haven't had more than a few screaming arguments but generally, nothing gets resolved that way so we tend to avoid them.

And yes, my husband is monogamous. Its a very small place, especially if you are from here, and yes, I would know if he were cheating, and yes, he really is out fishing. Neither does his father cheat. The man is too honest for that. In fact, I know quite a few men who don't cheat, who are honest (don't know about the confrontation issue but then why would I?) but they are all married and have been married since their youth.

The thing about the non-monogamy, before we start up on this again, is that it is socially accepted and widespread. So, if a man is cheating he really has no need to hide it. I know who the cheaters are. Everybody does. I also know who doesn't cheat, as does everybody else. If you are local to this island, it is extremely difficult to keep any kind of secret and why would anyone bother keeping a secret something that very few people really care about (except, of course, for the wife)?

So, no, I haven't compromised on what is important to me. I have chosen a person who holds the same values I do.

[Ave]

Perhaps "happily" married men have tried to pick you up, but I am talking about the ones who have not tried to pick you up. I know happily married men who do not try to pick me up. Is it possible that there are men out there who really are happily married that really do not have anything to do with you because you have nothing they want? Something to consider when assuming that the married men who try to pick you up are indicative of anything other than the fact that they are not happily married.

I also think that a man, or a woman as it goes, who is truly happy with his partner, doesn't need to look any further for further happiness.

[girlx]

But going by your original post, you assume then, that I (and anyone else married with a thai man?) would put up with those things you claim is inheraent in them all & that is how those marraiges survived!! How rude.

But fyi, he doesn't lie, he doesn't cheat, he doesn't have low morals, I can't remmeber what else but i think you can get the point.... wink.gif

Think outside the box.

Boo, you still are not understanding me I think...

Forgetting about the monogamy issue for a second (on which I know we will never agree), look at the other things I wrote about as being Thai traits. When I said they do not value honesty, you immediately think I am calling all Thai guys horrible liars. It is not as black & white as all that. Thais are raised to save face and avoid confrontation. So sometimes they will skirt around issues rather than face them head on. They admire that in each other, and some farangs I know admire that in them even. They would consider my way of getting straight to the heart of things as being rude and crass. I consider not doing so as being cowardly. That is just me. It doesn't mean either side is "bad" or "wrong". They are simply two different perspectives. I am not trying to insult or degrade Thais for their values. And I am not saying your husband is a liar, a cheater, or whatever... what I am saying is that he probably grew up being taught to think and behave a certain way which is different from how we are taught to think and behave in the west, and that in order for you guys to be together, you most likely had to discuss some things in order for both sides to understand and make compromises. You probably had to accept certain "Thai" traits about him, and he probably had to accept certain "Farang" things about you... (I don't believe it is possible to find a Thai guy who shares all the same Farang values and vice versa.) And that's cool, it works for you... but I have tried it, and thus far I have not been able to accept the "Thai" traits. Perhaps I am too rigid, perhaps I haven't met the right match... but I found that overall, my values and goals match up better with someone who is from my culture, and I could accept my western boyfriends long term much more than I think I could ever accept someone from this culture.... and that is all I was saying with my first post.

Edited February 19, 2009 by girlx

[Ave]

I never said bitter & my comnment abot scumbag radar was a joke Sorry if you didn't get that.

I know loads of my friends, all nice decent women who attract nothing but pricks. Not entirely their fault as they just seem to have an inbuilt radar what these guys gravitate to. But you yourself said the thai guys you meet are no good so i can only conclude that you are attracting the worst type of men, Whether it is anything you do or not I can't comment on.

_{I also have known that kind of friends and while I was around them I was having similar crap experiences with my then partner who I still think is a nice guy after all. But as I have moved on and away from that low life I have changed and met Thai people with similar moral principals and even the same sense of humour! I might be repeating myself in several threads but I'll never get tired of insisting in saying that it's what we attract that happens to us. If we change things around us change with us and hopefully at some point in life we realise that.}

_{For some of us it's much easier to stay in our comfort zone, for others the mission is to live life to the very 'full' whilst enjoying the challenges.}

And I meant what I said about hoping you find some joy in your life, from other threads I have seen, you often sound dissatisfied with your life in Thailand.

_{I also have sensed this tone of dissatisfaction and truly hope that once returned to your homeland you can find lots of people you can relate to.}

[sbk]

You haven't met my FIL, girlx. Tact and saving face are not in his vocabulary. Even for a farang, he would be embarrassingly blunt. Of course, my brother-in-law is like that too, so perhaps its only in this family.

[girlx]

yeah my Thai ex was the same, like I said.... he was almost more brutally honest and analytical than I am, which is very difficult to find in any culture. but he had some other frustrating aspects like misogyny which I see a lot around here. we are good friends, I talked to him about an hour ago on the phone and we had a laugh, but I would never go back to him as a girlfriend! and i don't think he'll be dating anyone from NY anytime soon either. just too many cultural differences for that.

[girlx]

I'll never get tired of insisting in saying that it's what we attract that happens to us. If we change things around us change with us and hopefully at some point in life we realise that.

i don't agree. to some extent one's attitude helps to shape one's circumstances, however there are a lot of people in unfortunate circumstances that are not of their own doing at all. (that was the one big flaw with "the secret" ). little kids get raped by pedophiles- is that their fault, did they attract that? women meet men who are outwardly good guys and then behind closed doors they are violent- you really think the woman went looking for that or sent off some signal saying i want a wifebeater?... they might react to it in a certain pattern, ie. instead of cutting the guy off they put up with it, and in that case i would say it's their fault and they are attracting more problems by not dealing with the situation, but assuming that someone has a "radar" of some sort that attracts bad things and people or vice versa is just silly to me. life brings everybody good things and bad things at different times of their lives.

but it's off topic anyhow...

Edited February 19, 2009 by girlx

[Ijustwannateach]

Most foreign gay guys I know come here and get trapped in a bad pattern of meeting bad people- and there are plenty enough of them to meet, if you're determined to and you don't give yourself other choices.

On the other hand, a few of them figure out after a year or so that there are other options- and they don't really have to deal with the worst types ever again (though you can have bad luck and run into one or two ringers).

Girlx, you sound like someone who either defines her type so rigidly and unreasonably that it is impossible to fulfill, anywhere, anytime (which is usually done out of fear of intimacy)- OR someone who is the female equivalent of one of these 'trapped' foreigners that I know. Either way, you most likely need to break your habits, meet people in a different way, and drop the expectations before you give them a chance. That's just my two bit advice, free.

[girlx]

a bad pattern of meeting bad people

rrrrrg, again, i am not saying they are bad people!!!!!

Girlx, you sound like someone who either defines her type so rigidly and unreasonably that it is impossible to fulfill, anywhere, anytime (which is usually done out of fear of intimacy)

yeah i think that might be it - like i said, i am very militant about my values etc... and i put a lot of expectations on the person i am with. but i would prefer to be alone or just have flings than to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't value the same things i do. perhaps that will change in the future, who knows.

oh, i should add though, i did not have that problem with my western boyfriends. we broke up for very different reasons than those i had for breaking up with thai guys.

Edited February 19, 2009 by girlx

[spectrum]

a bad pattern of meeting bad people

rrrrrg, again, i am not saying they are bad people!!!!!

Girlx, you sound like someone who either defines her type so rigidly and unreasonably that it is impossible to fulfill, anywhere, anytime (which is usually done out of fear of intimacy)

yeah i think that might be it - like i said, i am very militant about my values etc... and i put a lot of expectations on the person i am with. but i would prefer to be alone or just have flings than to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't value the same things i do. perhaps that will change in the future, who knows.

oh, i should add though, i did not have that problem with my western boyfriends. we broke up for very different reasons than those i had for breaking up with thai guys.

I would say, "stick to your principles", girlx. You're clearly very intelligent and it is no sin to be uncompromising.

(In fact, I am sometimes amazed by the bizarre behaviour of non-Asian women mimicking what they think is expected by their Thai "partners". The Thai "partners" often seem equally bewildered.)

I have held fast to my principles and it has proven worthwhile. I simply could not have a partner whose values were not in accord with mine. Those values include attitudes to women. Some men do abhor the attitudes they are sold.

Flexibility is a good trait, but not to the point where you allow deeply considered values to be compromised.

[Boo]

Nothing wrong with having principles, just try not to assume others don't have equally as valid ones or that they don't stick to them too

[spectrum]

Not sure who is "guilty" of doing so, Boo?

[ozzieovaseas]

I never said bitter & my comnment abot scumbag radar was a joke Sorry if you didn't get that. I know loads of my friends, all nice decent women who attract nothing but pricks. Not entirely their fault as they just seem to have an inbuilt radar what these guys gravitate to. But you yourself said the thai guys you meet are no good so i can only conclude that you are attracting the worst type of men, Whether it is anything you do or not I can't comment on.

And I meant what I said about hoping you find some joy in your life, from other threads I have seen, you often sound dissatisfied with your life in Thailand.

I found boo's earlier statements above to be very interesting, so please allow me to throw my two bob in..

At times this thread seems to gravitate towards certain fellow posters bad luck and/or inability to get a "keeper"...whether he be a thai or westerner.

From a farang guy viewpoint i have the opinion that many female traits are inbuilt into women of all nationalities, and it makes me think it shouldnt really be the traits of thai men that should be of issue here either.

Since the good girls are focusing on male traits which are not exclusive to any nation or culture it makes me wonder about the "types" of people who they describe are drawn/attracted to them like magnets..??

It is a given that every woman has their own individual "type" of guy, am i right?....one that they might consider throwing the odd subtle cue or body language message at??

So,I guess this guy has to be good looking,cute,confident..whatever??

I would suggest that most (sorry moderator, i know you hate that word!) women would be more inclined to give the subliminal goahead to the confident,good looking,seemingly succesful guy that struts in prancing about like Lord Muck...all the while totally oblivious to the plain but decent guy who sits alone in the background observing and having a chuckle to himself.

Its a no brainer..we have THOSE types in all races..and they are the players that have done it all before and will do it again...just because they CAN, and the next female will allow them to do it again...they are the ones who you can bet on having the negative traits you've described...they're just cunningly concealed until which time they can..well you know...

My point is they do it because they CAN!! and they are from all races and they are so succesful because recognise the signals that they can...

AND YES!..before you ask, i am probably a lonely,ugly old 39 y.o..WITHOUT a thai girlfriend!!

[Ave]

I'll never get tired of insisting in saying that it's what we attract that happens to us. If we change things around us change with us and hopefully at some point in life we realise that.

i don't agree. to some extent one's attitude helps to shape one's circumstances, however there are a lot of people in unfortunate circumstances that are not of their own doing at all. (that was the one big flaw with "the secret" ). little kids get raped by pedophiles- is that their fault, did they attract that? women meet men who are outwardly good guys and then behind closed doors they are violent- you really think the woman went looking for that or sent off some signal saying i want a wifebeater?... they might react to it in a certain pattern, ie. instead of cutting the guy off they put up with it, and in that case i would say it's their fault and they are attracting more problems by not dealing with the situation, but assuming that someone has a "radar" of some sort that attracts bad things and people or vice versa is just silly to me. life brings everybody good things and bad things at different times of their lives.

but it's off topic anyhow...

I used to think like you and I must say I'm glad I no longer do. I find that blaming circumstances and things like bad luck brings us towards negative thinking and a loss of control, while I intend to become happier and happier each day, instead.

Your reply has made me even more convinced that it actually does help to think that we control most events in this life. In fact, whatever happens I happen to stay happy and even help others on many occasions.

Differencies between me and my Thai partner only make me grow stronger. I reconsider my rigid thinking and enocourage to do the same, Thai and western principles. We talk and joke about them but respect them. We both cherish each other's different ways of thinking and have become more open about them. Nobody said it was easy..! But possible, yes! Not with commitment but with a loving attitude and openness and believing in your partner's potential as an individual not a Thai guy, trying not to fear that he's going to turn out to be the type we don't want. If we think like that that's exactly what is going to happen. That's a recipe for disaster and the forming of some bad pattern.

What has been ingrained in my mind since early age takes a long time to be stretched and made more fluid, adaptable to new situations. What I try to avoid is being conditioned by my partner. I love him and learn from his southern culture but I'm not a puppet.

It takes some of us - including me - some time to be able to concentrate solely on the positive aspects of our differencies with others and what we find in common with them. Of course it's easier to just stay home and live with a fellow westerner. But if we have problems for which we blame others or particular events we just bring same same but different issues into the relationship. And then we carry alike issues wherever we go - like I did.

I've only been in Thailand five years and I realise that the longer I stay the more there is to learn about it, its culture and traditions s but most of all myself. Certainly I can say that so far the challenges I've had to face with Thai guys and the stigma attached to them - and me - have made me becore more flexible, compassionate and understanding toward them and the things that are most difficult to accept by a western woman. I'm in such a different country to mine because I want to learn to think out ot the box whilst remaining myself but it always takes time, of course.

[Ijustwannateach]

I'll never get tired of insisting in saying that it's what we attract that happens to us. If we change things around us change with us and hopefully at some point in life we realise that.

i don't agree. to some extent one's attitude helps to shape one's circumstances, however there are a lot of people in unfortunate circumstances that are not of their own doing at all. (that was the one big flaw with "the secret" ). little kids get raped by pedophiles- is that their fault, did they attract that? women meet men who are outwardly good guys and then behind closed doors they are violent- you really think the woman went looking for that or sent off some signal saying i want a wifebeater?... they might react to it in a certain pattern, ie. instead of cutting the guy off they put up with it, and in that case i would say it's their fault and they are attracting more problems by not dealing with the situation, but assuming that someone has a "radar" of some sort that attracts bad things and people or vice versa is just silly to me. life brings everybody good things and bad things at different times of their lives.

but it's off topic anyhow...

Abused kids have nothing to do with this discussion; to bring them up in this context is completely inappropriate. We are talking about adults who are (theoretically) making adult, responsible choices about the types of people they meet.

In reference to the comments you made about adults, unfortunately for your point of view of it as 'silly,' it is a well-known phenomenon that certain types of psychologically damaged people do *indeed* have a 'radar' which draws them to the same types of negative relationships over and over again- usually some aspects of these relationships are repetitions of dysfunctional or abusive relationships with parenting figures from childhood (whether actual parents or not). This is why, in the most extreme cases, abused women keep going back to their abusive partners, or choosing/finding other abusive partners- and need counselling to change their approach. Choosing different negative partners and repeating negative relationship patterns is a milder version of that. Recovery starts by recognition that the common element in a number of repeating relationships is: you. The people you chose can't have conspired together.

Unfortunately, some people choose to believe that an entire CULTURE of people are simply 'the wrong way' in some sense to avoid this realisation. I would make the prediction that it will probably only be when/if you have repeated this pattern in yet another country (or two, or three...) that you will recognise this internal source and be able to take responsibility.

[donna]

ultimately, we all have an inbuilt 'radar' or 'inner voice' that pops up every now and then to tell us that things are not as they should be. 90% of us (or more) tend to ignore that warning, and carry on in a relationship that is doomed.

we get these signals for a reason, and mine are rarely wrong. if i start to have doubts, there is usually good reason for this. common sense tells me to get out of the relationship, but for whatever reason, most of us would choose to stay. this can be due to fear of rejection, being alone, whatever....but ultimately we all make our own choices.

we can choose to stay with someone who is not suitable for us, despite the warnings, or we can get out.

its not rocket science really.

i will give you an example of a relationship i was in. my partner went back to his village and i had this really weird feeling about the reason why he was summoned home. when he came back, i mentioned something about his mother finding him an 'appropriate' (by HER definition) partner for him. he said 'what are you talking about'. i had serious doubts about the relationship from then on, but kept it to myself

months later i found out thats EXACTLY what he had to go to the village for.

i am sure i am not the only person who has these 'feelings' and i think that although they are not ALWAYS right we should listen to our inner voice and act accordingly.