Financial Crisis

[12DrinkMore]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3q3UUi0IDQ&NR=1

Paul: Bernanke World's Greatest Counterfeiter

[AlexLah]

So what do you think happened Abrak in terms of the real economy that justifies a slight increase in RE values?

Has it not been banks or owners of the loans that keep the values artificially high by transferring them to government owned institutions or keeping them off the books?

[flying]

Since we are talking banks.........

DR. MARK W. HENDRICKSON: JEFFERSON’S WARNINGS ABOUT MONEY AND BANKS

By Beacon Author on December 17, 2009 at 01:08 pm

No Comments Yet

In 1962, President John F. Kennedy hosted a dinner for 49 Nobel laureates. The occasion provided the opportunity for JFK to display his keen wit in the memorable quote, “I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered at the White House—with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone.”

I wonder how many of today’s high school and college students appreciate Jefferson’s genius. Our third president, author of the Declaration of Independence and founder of the University of Virginia, was a masterful scholar of history, a political philosopher for the ages, a noted horticulturist, an archaeologist, architect, and inventor. He also knew a thing or two about money and banking. Let’s take a moment here to review the wise insights on money and banking left to us by this consummate Renaissance man.

Regarding money, Jefferson commented, “Paper is poverty … it is only the ghost of money, and not money itself.” We should remember this when we contemplate the loss of 95 percent of the purchasing power of the paper currency called “Federal Reserve notes” in less than a century. As Ben Bernanke and the Fed create trillions of new paper “dollars,” we, the richest country in history, face the possibility of a hyperinflationary collapse and accompanying impoverishment.

Jefferson, like other Founding Fathers, understood vividly the vulnerability of paper currencies, because of the devastating hyperinflation of the paper Continental dollar during the War for Independence. That is why the Coinage Act of 1792 stipulates gold and silver, NOT paper, as money. Jefferson and the Founders knew that for money to be sound, it needed to be something objective, tangible, unvarying, as well as something that people valued independent of its use as money—something like a fixed weight of gold or silver—rather than something as transitory and insubstantial as “the full faith and credit” of a government of unreliable human beings.

Jefferson intuitively grasped one of the basic principles of free-market economics: In a free, open competitive market, people choose good stuff (food, machines, tools, etc.) over bad stuff, and so goods of superior quality and value push inferior products into oblivion. The only reason Americans today have such an inferior currency is political. Government legislation denies us the freedom to choose what to accept as money. Jefferson wrote, “I now deny [the federal government’s] power of making paper money or anything else a legal tender.” What a terrible price we have paid and will pay for legal-tender laws forcing us to accept mere paper as money.

Anticipating the Federal Reserve System, Jefferson believed that, “The incorporation of a bank and the powers assumed [by legislation doing so] have not, in my opinion, been delegated to the United States by the Constitution. They are not among the powers specially enumerated.” In Jefferson’s eyes, a central bank is unconstitutional.

Jefferson warned, “If the American people ever allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers occupied … I sincerely believe the banking institutions having the issuing power of money are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies.”

Today, Uncle Sam is woefully dependent on the Fed and a few “too-big-to-fail” banks. That is because Uncle Sam is the world’s largest debtor, and without these giant banks to maintain a market for its oceans of debt, the federal government would have to shut down.

I once spoke with a congressman after hearing him complain about Federal Reserve policy. When I reminded him that the Fed had been created by an act of Congress, and that the creator controls the creation, he turned ashen, speechless. Is Congress a bunch of cowards or do the banks have a choke-hold on our government?

Are the Fed and the giant money-center banks as “dangerous” as Jefferson believed? Certainly, their power is undeniable.

The wealth of the American people is jeopardized by paper money and big banks. We should have heeded Jefferson’s warnings.

[flying]

it is reasonable to assume that the FDIC has unlimited access to an unlimited amount of money.

Yes basically as I said here yesterday.....

You know the whole FDIC/FED deal is pretty sweet eh?

I mean they just go get more paper to replace the fallen.

Or the FED for instance......Print...sell treasuries/debt to supposedly give the fiat power/backing

Yet when buyers are a no show or weak...They send in their own buyers. How's that for a racket.

Since their buyers are buying with ....guess what? Yep you got it I'm sure.

But as you say who will ultimately pick up the tab? Yes your right it will be the tax payers/slaves of course.

Edited December 19, 2009 by flying

[flying]

I must say I find it hard to see how real estate 'is' still plummeting in value. It is clear that real estate has taken a big hit but prices seem to be recovering a modest amount. According to the Case Shiller index

I mean I dont argue that prices are way below their peak (a bit like the stockmarket), it just seems that prices bottomed (at least in the short term) several months ago.

I dont mean to sound like a conspiracy type but.......... What a chart or gov site/politician says is one thing...Reality is another.

I am here & I see dead property everywhere. There is a long way to go till the bottom for prices.

Both in residential properties which now sits with vacant inventories like you would not believe & also commercial real estate with much fatter mortgages that now are not being serviced. As businesses close there will be more. As new businesses do not open due to the failing economy there will be little incentive. Unless prop prices drop a he!! of a lot more.

This is what I see not what I read. There is a definite disconnect occurring in reality here between what is being said/promised/reported & what is the occurring reality.

Edited December 19, 2009 by flying

[citizen33]

Here are three excellent papers/speeches on the banking crisis, written by Andy Haldane of the Bank of England.

Haldane has recently suggested that it might be a price worth paying for tighter UK regulation if some of the bankers left. Bob Varley of Barclays has hit back by saying that the UK financial sector contributes 15% of corporation tax receipts, whch will be much reduced by the fallout from the tax on bonuses. In 2008-09 corporation tax receipts for UK onshore financial companies (including life assurance) were about GBP 7.6 billion out of a total of GBP 32.4 billion (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/corporate_tax/table11_1.pdf). The National Audit Office recently estimated that the cost of the bailout of the UK financial sector was GBP 850 billion. I'd say that Haldane's arithmetic is better than Varley's: he realises that the UK can't take another hit of that magnitude for that level of tax receipts.

Edited December 19, 2009 by citizen33

[churchill]

Another looming crisis ? to add to the mix

http://www.marketskeptics.com/2009/12/2010...or-dummies.html

[sokal]

Another looming crisis ? to add to the mix

http://www.marketskeptics.com/2009/12/2010...or-dummies.html

I am not too worried about food prices because farmers are such idiots. Any time a farmer makes money he expands his business supposedly to get a tax break on his income. What do you think happens to the price of their product when all of them expand any time they make money ? They eventually flood their market. I know Jim Rogers is very bullish on food. Their might be a 10 year bull market in it, Who knows.

[flying]

Another looming crisis ? to add to the mix

http://www.marketskeptics.com/2009/12/2010...or-dummies.html

I have been reading a lot about this recently & posted this the other day

Fastest Food Inflation Since Riots Means Milk Up 39%

[12DrinkMore]

Here are three excellent papers/speeches on the banking crisis, written by Andy Haldane of the Bank of England.

Haldane has recently suggested that it might be a price worth paying for tighter UK regulation if some of the bankers left. Bob Varley of Barclays has hit back by saying that the UK financial sector contributes 15% of corporation tax receipts, whch will be much reduced by the fallout from the tax on bonuses. In 2008-09 corporation tax receipts for UK onshore financial companies (including life assurance) were about GBP 7.6 billion out of a total of GBP 32.4 billion (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/corporate_tax/table11_1.pdf). The National Audit Office recently estimated that the cost of the bailout of the UK financial sector was GBP 850 billion. I'd say that Haldane's arithmetic is better than Varley's: he realises that the UK can't take another hit of that magnitude for that level of tax receipts.

And to put it in years, at the current rate of contribution to UK taxes the banks will take over a century to pay it back. But hey! Am I not missing something? All of that 850 billion has come from where? Well, oh no, surely not! Not in borrowing from the banks, who have been so kind in lending it to us? And oh my oh my, isit not true that the tax payers are also paying interest to the banks.

The banks are surely laughing all the way to, er, the bank. :D

Nationalise the dam_n lot, banish by force all the "bonus boys" from the shores of the land, with confiscation of property, and take all profits to pay for education, transport and health care. And whilst we are at it, bring every single UK soldier back to the UK. The enemy lies within.

[AlexLah]

Told ya didn't I?

Easy money right?

We just ended up with a higher interest bill to pay back to the institutions that caused all of this.

[midas]

I must say I find it hard to see how real estate 'is' still plummeting in value. It is clear that real estate has taken a big hit but prices seem to be recovering a modest amount. According to the Case Shiller index (which is vaguely reliable) both 2Q and 3Q saw an increase in prices. 3Q saw an increase in prices for 90% of regions covered.

http://www.realestatechannel.com/us-market...-sales-1696.php

I mean I dont argue that prices are way below their peak (a bit like the stockmarket), it just seems that prices bottomed (at least in the short term) several months ago.

Abrak I am surprised that you " find it hard to see how real estate 'is' still plummeting in value ".

Surely wasnt it all about affordability ?And now people cant afford a proper dinner so what does that say about repaying bubble era mortgages ?

Cereal for dinner? Recession boosts General Mills

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Cereal-for-d...268070.html?x=0

[Naam]

I must say I find it hard to see how real estate 'is' still plummeting in value. It is clear that real estate has taken a big hit but prices seem to be recovering a modest amount. According to the Case Shiller index (which is vaguely reliable) both 2Q and 3Q saw an increase in prices. 3Q saw an increase in prices for 90% of regions covered.

http://www.realestatechannel.com/us-market...-sales-1696.php

I mean I dont argue that prices are way below their peak (a bit like the stockmarket), it just seems that prices bottomed (at least in the short term) several months ago.

Abrak I am surprised that you " find it hard to see how real estate 'is' still plummeting in value ".

Surely wasnt it all about affordability ?And now people cant afford a proper dinner so what does that say about repaying bubble era mortgages ?

Cereal for dinner? Recession boosts General Mills

only totally ignorant people relate real estate prices with the affordability of dinners. somebody who owns a house which was worth 2 million dollars a couple of years ago which has now a market value of 1 million dollars will not eat cereals for dinner if he/she has the same income. the same applies to a lower category of 200k and 100k.

the only people who think of cereals for dinner are those who own nothing but a rice field or have financed their dinners by continously refinancing their mortgages. if they can't afford more than cereals then it serves them right!

[midas]

Banksters thought they could disregard morals and decency , screw the sheeple and get away with it– but it seems the sheeple are slowly learning…………………….

It would be disastrous for the economy if Americans concluded they were free to walk away from such commitments...

And this would be so much better than the violence Celente predicts in 2012

On the Dharma Road To The End Of Banking

If your loan is still $100,000 or more than your home is worth, you must keep paying. Why? Are promises made to people, who's own actions changed the terms of your deal so vastly the deal no longer makes sense, promises one must keep when the other's actions have ruined you?

What is moral behavior? And why is immoral behavior legal?

Does moral behavior involve debt slavery or sacrificing yourself and family's future so that the elite banker class with pieces of your crappy loan recorded on a disk drive somewhere can take a $20 million bonus for investing Bailout Ben money, borrowed at zero interest, in the markets or worse, loaning the same free tax money back to the taxpayers at 4%?

Modern life - actual life, as in living, being alive - in the western developed world might actually be improved upon if the great mass of people woke up, understood that we are all free and walked away from their debt slavery. This country's founding documents, the first of any on Earth, declare our freedom and right to pursue life, liberty and happiness. There's nothing in there about paying bills, though a lot of language to that effect was added over the years.

But, what if millions of us woke up to realize we are more than our thoughts or our work, more than debtors; that we are human beings, no longer trapped in a mindset that binds us to things, objects, stuff. We really are more than the crap we have surrounded ourselves with. The easiest way to begin to understand this is to simply ... lose the stuff.

http://lettersfrommrsunshine.blogspot.com/...and-end-of.html

[Naam]

Told ya didn't I? Easy money right? We just ended up with a higher interest bill to pay back to the institutions that caused all of this.

of course easy money! i just took a one million dollar hedge for 1.43% p.a. fixed for 6 months (dec16>may14) = an interest rate p.a. i have never heard of before in my investor's lifetime. fixing it for a year would have been 1.67%, o/n rate would have been 0.875% and with these rates banks are still making a héll of profit because they refinance at a rate somewhere next to nothing but you and me live in different universes Alex of which none of us have proper insight into the other one.

[Naam]

If your loan is still $100,000 or more than your home is worth, you must keep paying. Why?

because that's how it is! if your wife turns ugly with age and is therefore "less worth" you can't dispose of her or give her less food and clothes by claiming "i married a beautiful young woman for which i was willing to spend some money".

get the fàck real man and roll off your rubber sheet (which is soaking wet and might spoil your mattress)!

Edited December 20, 2009 by Naam

[12DrinkMore]

because that's how it is! if your wife turns ugly with age and is therefore "less worth" you can't dispose of her or give her less food and clothes by claiming "i married a beautiful young woman for which i was willing to spend some money".

Not quite right there, lots of instances of this occurring...., although it does generally cost a bit of cash to do the deed.

Wouldn't surprise me if more than a few guys around here have dumped a western lardarse bitch, and replaced her with a younger Asian model....

Edited December 20, 2009 by 12DrinkMore

[hhgz]

"why spoil a shitty story which the boys like with facts? "

Even more interesting than the phony license plate is the manner in which the poster handled the situation.

He trolled the internet and found something that he thought supported his perspective. He then posted it without attribution, pretending it was his. When the veracity of the photo was questioned, he immediately backpedaled from it : "Heck, it's not mine, I took it form another site. Heck, the other guy might be wrong, but I have nothing to do with it." His intellectual dishonesty and cowardice is an inspiration to us all.

[midas]

get the fàck real man and roll off your rubber sheet (which is soaking wet and might spoil your mattress)!

Who are you telling to “ get the fàck real “ Naam ?

The writer of that article or perhaps even Brent T. White, Professor at The University of

Arizona James E Rogers College of Law who advocates sending a message to Wall Street by defaulting en mass.

" White says we’ve all watched Wall Street stick it to Main Street, and today’s coming announcement from the White House about yet another program to help keep homeowners in their homes means foreclosures are going up (as job losses continue to rise).It would feel good to stick it to Wall Street. "

http://moneywatch.bnet.com/saving-money/bl...-mortgage/1323/

Oh dear Naam sorry if this does not meet with your expectations

Maybe the mantra should be

“ HALLELUJAH... AMEN. PRAISE THE LORD! THE RIGHTEOUS non-PARASITIC ONES THAT CONTINUE TO PAY THEIR UNDERWATER MORTGAGES WILL GO TO PARADISE..”. :

[flying]

"why spoil a shitty story which the boys like with facts? "

Even more interesting than the phony license plate is the manner in which the poster handled the situation.

He trolled the internet and found something that he thought supported his perspective. He then posted it without attribution, pretending it was his. When the veracity of the photo was questioned, he immediately backpedaled from it : "Heck, it's not mine, I took it form another site. Heck, the other guy might be wrong, but I have nothing to do with it." His intellectual dishonesty and cowardice is an inspiration to us all.

Oh for gods sake buy a vowel.

None back peddled ( check your spelling) What I did say was....

You need to do a lil better than calling it.

Post a link & prove it.....

Matt Taibbi is pretty reliable...Not to say he couldn't be wrong but.....

http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/12/03...e-vanity-plate/

Aren't you the same guy that couldn't read Abraks post properly yesterday & went off on a tangent about it due to your lack of reading comprehension? So you know glass houses stones etc?

Go back & read it if your that lame...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Financial-Cr...33#entry3193533

You have a history of weak reading comprehension...& it shows

It was then you who came running in yelling...."That is a fake license plate they only allow 7 characters on a New York Plates & if others spend more than a minute investigating they too would be right like me...just look at the New York DMV"...................Yeah Right you were wrong...then shown to be wrong with the HHGZFAIL & a link to the proof at the New York DMV which you obviously skimmed as you reported wrong info based on Theme Plates & not the passenger plates.

Get a clue & try to be on time on your next mis-report. Instead of waiting till pages pass in the hopes none will out you.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Financial-Cr...94#entry3196994

Edited December 20, 2009 by flying

[jcon]

Hmm I guess there's nothing to see here, even though I've been away for some time ... same same

[AlexLah]

Not so fast J the Con Man.

What happened with your bet?

And here some more reading material for those who not belieb in conspiriacy....

http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/12.09/curtain.html

[Naam]

get the fàck real man and roll off your rubber sheet (which is soaking wet and might spoil your mattress)!

Who are you telling to “ get the fàck real “ Naam ?

i am telling YOU!

[Naam]

And here some more reading material for those who not belieb in conspiriacy....

no own thoughts, just puppets and parrots.

[Naam]

because that's how it is! if your wife turns ugly with age and is therefore "less worth" you can't dispose of her or give her less food and clothes by claiming "i married a beautiful young woman for which i was willing to spend some money".

Not quite right there, lots of instances of this occurring...., although it does generally cost a bit of cash to do the deed.

Wouldn't surprise me if more than a few guys around here have dumped a western lardarse bitch, and replaced her with a younger Asian model....

that's a matter of individual taste, character and last not least most probably an earlier poor choice. only time will tell whether choosing a younger model was a better option.

[AlexLah]

Again you are having troubles remembering. Me and few others in this and some other threads kept saying stuff like this (not in so many words) but have been called crazy conspiracy theorist.

This guy, a former Chairman of Princeton Economics Int'l, Ltd shares some of the things he knows of what goes on behind the curtain.

If you disagree with him please send him an e-mail or one of your rubber mattresses.

[Naam]

"why spoil a shitty story which the boys like with facts? "

Even more interesting than the phony license plate is the manner in which the poster handled the situation.

He trolled the internet and found something that he thought supported his perspective. He then posted it without attribution, pretending it was his. When the veracity of the photo was questioned, he immediately backpedaled from it : "Heck, it's not mine, I took it form another site. Heck, the other guy might be wrong, but I have nothing to do with it." His intellectual dishonesty and cowardice is an inspiration to us all.

Oh for gods sake buy a vowel.

None back peddled ( check your spelling)

terribly sorry Flying but i can't help it that a non-native english speaker (like me) has to tell you that YOU should check your spelling. hhgz's vowel spelling is correct assuming he is an American and therefore does not double consonants. come to think of it... even some Brits are not doubling consonants.

[Naam]

Again you are having troubles remembering. Me and few others in this and some other threads kept saying stuff...

i remember very well that you and others kept saying "stuff". most of it was stuff which should be stuffed where the moon doesn't shine.

[AlexLah]

Is it too hard for you to admit that there is a very different reality out there Mr. conventional wisdom?

[midas]

get the fàck real man and roll off your rubber sheet (which is soaking wet and might spoil your mattress)!

Who are you telling to “ get the fàck real “ Naam ?

i am telling YOU!

Well considering I only posted what someone else wrote I do think you are being a bit personal there old chap

And may i say the same to you about that rubbish you posted a few weeks ago ( from a source you didnt name )

that claimed the global commercial real estate market will " continue to improve in 2010 "