Emergency Laws In Pattaya Lifted

[baht&sold]

Thank you. Well reasoned and well argued. You make good points which I will think over and I think you have some areas of insight I lack on earlier years of Thaksin though I have always said I am NOT pro Thaksin, just pro democracy... PM me.

Sincere thanks for your considered reply and invite Edward but I regret I won't PM. Not meant as a dismissal or disrespect at all and again, I sincerely wish you, yours and all Thai families a better future. Keep up the good fight for advancing real democracy. Lord and Buddha knows, Thailand certainly needs and will eventually achieve truly democratic change which we both hope for (regardless whether acceptingly or fearfully). But let's hope not via more civil unrest or deaths 'procured' by an obviously (to some) cynical, vengeful, narcissistic sociopath megalomaniac, self-proclaimed and always self-serving hypocritical 'victim' (aka, in a word, Thaksin;)

Edited April 11, 2009 by baht&sold

[spongeman]

New Olympic sport perhaps?

Javelin anybody?

and finally air pistol.

Expect many gold medals from Thailand in London 2012.

Ps Great Photos.

[donx]

Its Bangkok vs the countryside. 2 different countries in one perhaps ?. Why did the PM travel up north after being "Elected" (ie without a national vote). He knew he did'nt have their support,thats why.

People talk about another Election.Democrats w'ont win. Both sides w'ont accept the result. Split it up.

I don't think this is a Bangkok vs the countryside conflict. My wife was talking to her family in a farming village in Phatthalung (a Southern province) this morning and they warned her not to bring any red shirts with us when we visit in the summer. Evidently the red shirts are not liked very much in the Southern countryside.

[peecee]

... while the red shirts are trying to overthrow a legitimate government. This gives the government the right to pretty do whatever is necessary to restore peace, and after today we can expect pretty serious actions.

What are u talking about?the only legitiomate and free elected government in Thailand was TRT with Mr,toxin as PM?Everything what came after are not legitimate governments

Sorry but you need to get your facts straight. The current government is 100% legitimate. The current prime minister has been democratically elected by the Parliament.

I think what you mean is that the current government is not the one that was elected, as the P.P.P and it's coalition partners were ALL dissolved BY LAW because of vote buying.

The last legitimate and free elected government was in fact the one under the P.P.P. until the court ruling I just mentioned a couple of times.

The freely elected government was ousted by corrupt judges who would only accept that one side was buying votes when factually they were all at it! My wife identified spouses of these same judges occupying the airport, whipping up the yellow mob.

These judges also endorsed a constitution that was put to the people in such a way that if they didn't endorse it then there would be no election! In other word's, blackmailed!!

Seem's to me that corruption has been an integral part of Thai politics for many year's, so let them get on with it; after all no one see's your X before it is put in the ballot box and most of the people could do with a few Bt!!!

[eldar1]

... while the red shirts are trying to overthrow a legitimate government. This gives the government the right to pretty do whatever is necessary to restore peace, and after today we can expect pretty serious actions.

What are u talking about?the only legitiomate and free elected government in Thailand was TRT with Mr,toxin as PM?Everything what came after are not legitimate governments

Sorry but you need to get your facts straight. The current government is 100% legitimate. The current prime minister has been democratically elected by the Parliament.

I think what you mean is that the current government is not the one that was elected, as the P.P.P and it's coalition partners were ALL dissolved BY LAW because of vote buying.

The last legitimate and free elected government was in fact the one under the P.P.P. until the court ruling I just mentioned a couple of times.

The freely elected government was ousted by corrupt judges who would only accept that one side was buying votes when factually they were all at it! My wife identified spouses of these same judges occupying the airport, whipping up the yellow mob.

These judges also endorsed a constitution that was put to the people in such a way that if they didn't endorse it then there would be no election! In other word's, blackmailed!!

Seem's to me that corruption has been an integral part of Thai politics for many year's, so let them get on with it; after all no one see's your X before it is put in the ballot box and most of the people could do with a few Bt!!!

IIRC it was not about buying individual votes (which all parties do here) but paying entire political parties to contest seats in districts which TRT could not get 20% of the votes needed to elect an official from a district in which the official was the only candidate. If the EC actually followed up on individual vote buying, every politician in Thailand ever would be in jail or banned from politics.

I don't understand how farangs who continually talk about democracy have such a laissez faire attitude towards vote buying. Vote buying is against the core principles of democracy; hence it being an offence in western democracies.

[mamanoodle]

Good points - Abhisit is a very well educated guy. Although Thai, he was born and educated in the Uk. His degrees are genuine not bought or forged. I think he is well able to outsmart the criminal mob!

Exactly!!! Shame though these educations do not seem to compute with the Thai brain? and logic(oops! illogic) when they return to Thailand. Plus the fact that the criminal mob of Thailand seems to always be the outsmarters of the Thai(ahem!!) law and basically seem to run the whole show and run rings around those who are supposed to be in charge of things.TIT.

[robbo1]

Are the blue shirts a new group or have they been around for a while .

I have never heard of them what are there political beliefs or do they just like to throw things at other political groups?

Does anyone have any thoughts of what the future brings to buetiful thailand?

[songhklasid]

When & where & who are the blue shirts, they appeared out of nowhere to stir the trouble @ pattaya, Thaksin paid thugs? The only good thing out of it there might be some splendid deals done wiyh the young ladies if you are lucky enough to be in country @ the moment.

regards songhklasid

[donx]

When & where & who are the blue shirts, they appeared out of nowhere to stir the trouble @ pattaya, Thaksin paid thugs? The only good thing out of it there might be some splendid deals done wiyh the young ladies if you are lucky enough to be in country @ the moment.

regards songhklasid

The blue shirts attached the red shirts. The red shirts are Pro Thaksin, so the blue shirts definitely weren't Thaksin paid thugs.

[waza]

The blue shirts are Newins paid guards. I dont think Thailand is fertile ground for a very well educated guy. More supportive of the the criminal mob! Thailand need a strong government who will implement and enforce the rule of law. just an opinion

[Tokay]

I know this is off topic, but why do the Thai Media lie to the Thai People for?

The reds went peacefully to meeting in pattaya, and they got ambushed by the blue's who were the only group carrying weapons.

I'm not a supporter, but as the human rights state, everyone has their right to protest peacefully, and the red's are being prevoked into voilence.

I was on top of the hill today with my camera when the two clashed. I can tell you, with media to back up my statements, the red shirts went to the hill armed with clubs, sticks with nails in them, garden hoes, sling shots, metal poles, beer bottles and I even saw a few of them with swords. They were even trying to provoke the blues before it all started. The guys on the front lines did not go in peace.

They only ditched the weapons after they defeated the blue shirts and came to the military line, which at that point rumors started to fly that the military had guns drawn. I did not see this but this was the rumor among the red shirts and they QUICKLY threw their weapons into the grass and loaded them into trucks and taxis to be taken away.

I also believe, based on what I saw, that some of the blue shirts did indeed have military within them. Before the red shirts arrived they were working hand and hand with the military and I even had one guy tell me in perfect English that he was in the Army. I also noticed several blue shirts saluting other blue shirts. With that said, I do believe it was only a small fraction of them that were military, the rest were common people armed just as much as the red shirts were.

Both the reds and the blues came to fight today regardless what Thai media or either party says. I watched them prepare from before sunrise and was in the middle of it all until it was over.

What I'm seeing on Thai news and online does not match with what I saw today with my own eyes.

[aaaaaa]

The blue shirts are Newins paid guards. I dont think Thailand is fertile ground for a very well educated guy. More supportive of the the criminal mob! Thailand need a strong government who will implement and enforce the rule of law. just an opinion

well, perhaps that's precisely was / is a design of those who has the real power - elite (military, companies bosses and judiciary all together).

in the end they are the only winners - both financially (didn't army get 1bln recently ?) and in terms of power.

now they must be ready to make eagerly some statement like : "we've tried to allow a Democratic government - it didn't work even this time [3rd PM in hardly 1 year !].

now we have to step in again to save the country and make a nice truly Thai system, unique and withou any such Democratic nonsense which only creates mess".

[Tokay]

I was at the Royal Cliff yesterday. The reds had sticks and metal rods in the back of their trucks. They were brought out and brandished at a police line at one point.

They didn't start out in the trucks. They carried them up the hill and only put them into the trucks when rumors started (after they just beat and chased off the blues) about the military having guns drawn. I've never seen a group toss their weapons so fast and change their tune. They (front line red shirts) went from a crazy mob ready to kill to a peaceful group who was passing out notes to falang they believed were journalist describing how they came with no weapons and for us to please report an honest story.

[duchovny]

The real question to be asked is who are the morons who decided to hold such an important summit in Thailand in the first place?

The country and people are obviously unstable, this was bound to happen.

Now they've been made to pay be all being sent home before they even arrived.

Where will they decide to hold the next one, Darfur?

[aaaaaa]

I know this is off topic, but why do the Thai Media lie to the Thai People for?

The reds went peacefully to meeting in pattaya, and they got ambushed by the blue's who were the only group carrying weapons.

I'm not a supporter, but as the human rights state, everyone has their right to protest peacefully, and the red's are being prevoked into voilence.

I was on top of the hill today with my camera when the two clashed. I can tell you, with media to back up my statements, the red shirts went to the hill armed with clubs, sticks with nails in them, garden hoes, sling shots, metal poles, beer bottles and I even saw a few of them with swords. They were even trying to provoke the blues before it all started. The guys on the front lines did not go in peace.

They only ditched the weapons after they defeated the blue shirts and came to the military line, which at that point rumors started to fly that the military had guns drawn. I did not see this but this was the rumor among the red shirts and they QUICKLY threw their weapons into the grass and loaded them into trucks and taxis to be taken away.

I also believe, based on what I saw, that some of the blue shirts did indeed have military within them. Before the red shirts arrived they were working hand and hand with the military and I even had one guy tell me in perfect English that he was in the Army. I also noticed several blue shirts saluting other blue shirts. With that said, I do believe it was only a small fraction of them that were military, the rest were common people armed just as much as the red shirts were.

Both the reds and the blues came to fight today regardless what Thai media or either party says. I watched them prepare from before sunrise and was in the middle of it all until it was over.

What I'm seeing on Thai news and online does not match with what I saw today with my own eyes.

Tokay,

were you there also on Fri evening, when Blue atarted this whole mess ?

can you say the same as here - that Reds were armed while coming out of hotel and being ambushed by Blues?

after that Reds promised to "be back" next day with reinforcements called from Bkk.

no wonder they prepared too, knowing very well from previous night that they'll face ARMED amd well trained militants !

of course they freaking came to fight - after being pelted with stones previous day.

Suthep and Newin must've knew better than to allowing the escalation of this stand off.

instead they not only did nothing - they practically supported Blues by not preventing them from clashing with Reds.

there shouldn't be ANY Blue at all there, not on Fri, not even on Sat !

especially moron Suthep shouldn't make statements like "they are local citizens", or that another official saying "they are here to help with security" !!!

SECURITY ? armed thugs ? wasn't the WHOLE army and police enough for that ?

I mean - till Blue showed up, there wasn't ANY violence reported or armed confrontation with army / police - was there ?

[aaaaaa]

The real question to be asked is who are the morons who decided to hold such an important summit in Thailand in the first place?

The country and people are obviously unstable, this was bound to happen.

Now they've been made to pay be all being sent home before they even arrived.

Where will they decide to hold the next one, Darfur?

hahaha!

well, guess who. it was Abhisit of course. a week ago in London while giving interwview he said "situation in Thailand is NORMAL".

he even argued hard on Hardtalk, spinning out of proportions on the matter - that everything is under control and cool.

Thailand is the Chair country for ASEAN this year, so it was its turn to host the Summit.

about Darfur - nope, it is not ASEAN member

so, it will be still held in Thailand - perhaps in Yala or Narathivat instead of Pattaya though !

those places are certainly much more "secure", with all the Thai Army might present there.

Edited April 11, 2009 by aaaaaa

[Tokay]

I know this is off topic, but why do the Thai Media lie to the Thai People for?

The reds went peacefully to meeting in pattaya, and they got ambushed by the blue's who were the only group carrying weapons.

I'm not a supporter, but as the human rights state, everyone has their right to protest peacefully, and the red's are being prevoked into voilence.

I was on top of the hill today with my camera when the two clashed. I can tell you, with media to back up my statements, the red shirts went to the hill armed with clubs, sticks with nails in them, garden hoes, sling shots, metal poles, beer bottles and I even saw a few of them with swords. They were even trying to provoke the blues before it all started. The guys on the front lines did not go in peace.

They only ditched the weapons after they defeated the blue shirts and came to the military line, which at that point rumors started to fly that the military had guns drawn. I did not see this but this was the rumor among the red shirts and they QUICKLY threw their weapons into the grass and loaded them into trucks and taxis to be taken away.

I also believe, based on what I saw, that some of the blue shirts did indeed have military within them. Before the red shirts arrived they were working hand and hand with the military and I even had one guy tell me in perfect English that he was in the Army. I also noticed several blue shirts saluting other blue shirts. With that said, I do believe it was only a small fraction of them that were military, the rest were common people armed just as much as the red shirts were.

Both the reds and the blues came to fight today regardless what Thai media or either party says. I watched them prepare from before sunrise and was in the middle of it all until it was over.

What I'm seeing on Thai news and online does not match with what I saw today with my own eyes.

Tokay,

were you there also on Fri evening, when Blue atarted this whole mess ?

can you say the same as here - that Reds were armed while coming out of hotel and being ambushed by Blues?

after that Reds promised to "be back" next day with reinforcements called from Bkk.

no wonder they prepared too, knowing very well from previous night that they'll face ARMED amd well trained militants !

of course they freaking came to fight - after being pelted with stones previous day.

I was not. Nor does it matter to me who started it.

My point is, yesterday the reds did not go in peace and both parties were extremely armed and ready to fight. The Thai media (as usual) is slanted (blues were unarmed - lol) so I'm telling you what I saw and it's not in line with the Thai press.

It always takes two to tango.

[Jimjim]

So Abhisit is incompentent because a bunch of red shirts are protesting? What exactly can he do to stop it? I don't see any suggestions other than suggesting he is "inneffectual" and "incomptetent."' For what reason? What could Samak and Somchai do to stop the yellow shirts? Absolutely nothing. The only thing he could do is to declare martial law and have the police use force and violence to stop the protests, possibly causing death. Would you call him an incompetent leader then? Or, would you call him a tyrant and a lover of violence? No PM of Thailand can ever win with some of you armchair farang commentators.

[aaaaaa]

The reds went peacefully to meeting in pattaya, and they got ambushed by the blue's who were the only group carrying weapons...

I was on top of the hill today with my camera when the two clashed. I can tell you, with media to back up my statements, the red shirts went to the hill armed with clubs, sticks with nails in them, garden hoes, sling shots, metal poles, beer bottles and I even saw a few of them with swords. They were even trying to provoke the blues before it all started. The guys on the front lines did not go in peace.

They only ditched the weapons after they defeated the blue shirts and came to the military line, which at that point rumors started to fly that the military had guns drawn. I did not see this but this was the rumor among the red shirts and they QUICKLY threw their weapons into the grass and loaded them into trucks and taxis to be taken away.

I also believe, based on what I saw, that some of the blue shirts did indeed have military within them. Before the red shirts arrived they were working hand and hand with the military and I even had one guy tell me in perfect English that he was in the Army. I also noticed several blue shirts saluting other blue shirts. With that said, I do believe it was only a small fraction of them that were military, the rest were common people armed just as much as the red shirts were.

Both the reds and the blues came to fight today regardless what Thai media or either party says. I watched them prepare from before sunrise and was in the middle of it all until it was over.

What I'm seeing on Thai news and online does not match with what I saw today with my own eyes.

Tokay,

were you there also on Fri evening, when Blue atarted this whole mess ?

can you say the same as here - that Reds were armed while coming out of hotel and being ambushed by Blues?

after that Reds promised to "be back" next day with reinforcements called from Bkk.

no wonder they prepared too, knowing very well from previous night that they'll face ARMED amd well trained militants !

of course they freaking came to fight - after being pelted with stones previous day.

I was not. Nor does it matter to me who started it.

My point is, yesterday the reds did not go in peace and both parties were extremely armed and ready to fight. The Thai media (as usual) is slanted (blues were unarmed - lol) so I'm telling you what I saw and it's not in line with the Thai press.

It always takes two to tango.

well, as I surmise from gadgetsdirect's comment - he was referring to BEFORE yesterday, the events on Friday evening.

you though are trying to prove him wrong by telling your story of yesterday, Saturday morning - right ?

so, you're talking about 2 different things, you and him.

I neither saw any reports anywhere (either Thai media or blogs or witnesses as you on Forums) that Reds were armed on Fri night.

therefore I still believe that gadgetsdirect's comment "blue's who were the only group carrying weapons" is correct, in reference to the events of Fri night.

and I don't think it doesn't matter - I think it matters a lot ! coz were those Blue not armed and not attacked Reds on Fri night, or even better if were NO ANY Blue there on Fri night -

Reds would have retreated and kept their promise NOT to disrupt the Summit.

so, Blue attack on Fir night DOES matter a lot actually - Summit could have been held today !

in fact even after that clash - if only Abhisit met Reds' demand to arrest gunmen, or at least PRETENDED trying, instead of totally ignoring them.

[aaaaaa]

So Abhisit is incompentent because a bunch of red shirts are protesting? What exactly can he do to stop it? I don't see any suggestions other than suggesting he is "inneffectual" and "incomptetent."' For what reason? What could Samak and Somchai do to stop the yellow shirts? Absolutely nothing. The only thing he could do is to declare martial law and have the police use force and violence to stop the protests, possibly causing death. Would you call him an incompetent leader then? Or, would you call him a tyrant and a lover of violence? No PM of Thailand can ever win with some of you armchair farang commentators.

no, he is incompetent because he allowed his Deputy Suthep to employ militant thugs as "security" - instead of using more than sufficient, mcuh numbered, well trained and disciplined army + police forces !

or may be even if it wasn't Suthep who employed them but Newin - Suthep nodded and done nothing to prevent those Blue from acting as so called "security" !

neither Abhisit did nothing to "uphold the law" - to find the Blue gunmen who shot at Reds (nice "security", huh ?) whom Reds demanded to be arrested.

or do you consider this as competence ?

[timekeeper]

I know this is off topic, but why do the Thai Media lie to the Thai People for?

The reds went peacefully to meeting in pattaya, and they got ambushed by the blue's who were the only group carrying weapons.

I'm not a supporter, but as the human rights state, everyone has their right to protest peacefully, and the red's are being prevoked into voilence.

I have a feeling, that there may be a civil war going to kick of soon if this not sorted out soon.

They needs to let the people take vote, and the people need a government that will listen to voices of all thais, not just the rich or the poor, but all thais.

yesterday i had occasion to want to enter the Soi near to Jamesons that leads to the back of Big C north Pattaya.

i had my wife and mother in the car.

a number of men surrounded the car and i was told in no uncertain terms that i could not enter what is a a public road and the point was emphasised by a number of men with their faces covered with bandanas waving fence posts and big sticks at me.

one of them drew his hand across his neck in a slicing motion.

another made motions like he was reaching for a gun inside his jacket

these men were dressed in RED

there was no provacation on my part and the show of strength/intimidation was totally unneccesary.

it did not help their case in my view and any sympathies i had for their cause were gone in that moment.

in my view mob mentality is endemic in Thais, whatever colour they wear.

the only place you will get a relatively fair fight in Thailand is in the ring.

[coconutmonkey]

People keep commenting on how Abhisit has been 'ineffectual'..............

That's exactly what he needed to do.... or take 'action' like Samak or Somchai? And suffer those consequences?

Now the reds look like Thugs, international leaders dispise Taksin, Taksin looks as if he is causing problems and not acting in the best interests of the country, which makes him look selfish and motivated to save his $$$ only.

Thaksin has also given greater justification towards his complete demise. However, that depends if the police and military (NOT the government) can handle the situation cleanly, under whatever supervision. They stuffed it up countless times already under any supervision; last year they stood sh#t-scared at the airport after they used explosive tear gas grenades..... do THEY have any idea what they're doing?

Maybe all this will help result in a complete restructuring of the entire police force? No, that would probably be the best thing to happen to Thailand, and it's too deep rooted.

[timekeeper]

So Abhisit is incompentent because a bunch of red shirts are protesting? What exactly can he do to stop it? I don't see any suggestions other than suggesting he is "inneffectual" and "incomptetent."' For what reason? What could Samak and Somchai do to stop the yellow shirts? Absolutely nothing. The only thing he could do is to declare martial law and have the police use force and violence to stop the protests, possibly causing death. Would you call him an incompetent leader then? Or, would you call him a tyrant and a lover of violence? No PM of Thailand can ever win with some of you armchair farang commentators.

no, he is incompetent because he allowed his Deputy Suthep to employ militant thugs as "security" - instead of using more than sufficient, mcuh numbered, well trained and disciplined army + police forces !

or may be even if it wasn't Suthep who employed them but Newin - Suthep nodded and done nothing to prevent those Blue from acting as so called "security" !

neither Abhisit did nothing to "uphold the law" - to find the Blue gunmen who shot at Reds (nice "security", huh ?) whom Reds demanded to be arrested.

or do you consider this as competence ?

in my view those responsible for this debarcle are the organisers of the summit, no one else

a wedding planner dealing with the prospect of trouble from a spurned ex boyfriend could have done a better job of organising this event

i initially thought that the choice of venue was a good idea

the royal cliff and peach are accessible by a limited number of roads

it has a helicopter landing pad

it has a fine hotel and facilities for the guests

relatively easy to secure one would have thought

this was an important summit so had i been the organiser

i would have booked the whole hotel for the summit weekend

relocated any existing guests to other hotels at the governments expense

completely block all access roads by tanks and cement blocks at multiple locations and backed up by army and police

i would park a warship from Sattahip opposite the royal cliff to observe beach access with frequent security sweeps by navy personnnel in rubber dinghys

all staff (who had been background checked, any red sympahisers would not be allowed to work that weekend) would stay at the hotel over the weekend in the empty rooms

there would be no one allowed in or out except by helicopter.

any urgent supplies needed could be brought in by chopper

a medical centre would be set up inside the cliff for the benefit of the participants

any serious medical emergencies could have been choppered to BPH

a seige was widely expected so why not adopt a seige mentality to protect the participants?

all the VIP's and their ontourages would be flown in from swampy or utapau by helicopter and would have to be accomodated in the royal cliff hotel 24 hours prior to the event

there would be no exceptions, no other accomodation would be acceptable

all press and TV crews would also be accomodated inside the royal cliff

then once you are in, you are in until its over.

if you are not there on time, you are excluded

as an aside, keeping the world leaders captive in the royal cliff would have been a good move in my view

after all do you really want some of the worlds most important people to see for themselves what a shithole Pattaya really is?

if there was an incursion into the exclusion zone then don't cancel the summit, be a little creative

just ring a big hotel in Samet or Samui and book a room for the day or book the whole hotel

fly the army out there to secure the venue and move the summit meetings there and if neccesary fly the VIP's back at night for the organised dinners at the cliff etc

cancel the ferries to the island until its over or even move the meeting to the warship offshore

or move them to Utapau air base sit them in a hanger, security is in place there already

do anything, move them anywhere but do not cancel the event.

if Aphisit had outflanked the reds by a little creative thinking, today he would have been applauded and thaksins ambitions thwarted.

but what did we get?

VIPs located at hotels all over town to have to run the gauntlet by car to get there.

(god knows its tough enough getting from the dusit to the cliff on a good day!).

this alone was a recipe for disaster

when a demonstration was expected and widely publised in advance, why would you have anyone drive there to participate as opposed to making a simple 30 metres walk across the car park from the Cliff reception to Peach?

which moron allowed that to happen?

its those heads that should roll not the PM's

for me, anyone involved in the organisation of this summit should be fired right now.

Edited April 12, 2009 by timekeeper

[cmsally]

There seem to be a lot of news and articles out today regarding Newin being on the ground in Pattaya directing operations.

As well as Suthep and Police Chief (who is defense minister's brother) inspecting the hotel beforehand.

Here he is on the back of a motorbike.

Matichon article in Thai about Newin's role and the blue shirts.

Matichon

This is from the Nation, more about Newin's role

Nation

Newin shows his hand as blue-shirts' boss

Published on April 12, 2009

The appearance of the blue-shirt protesters yesterday was not unprecedented. The group showed up on March 26 vowing to prevent the red-shirts from laying siege to Suvarnabhumi Airport. Members of the blue-shirts are believed to be Interior Ministry volunteers and canvassers for the Bhum Jai Thai party, and party leader Newin Chidchob is believed to be pulling the strings. With King Power as a major financier of his party, Newin cannot afford to see the red-shirts besiege the airport.

Though the blue-shirts have the clear objective of opposing the red-shirts and protecting the government, this time the arrival of the blue-shirts was different, because Newin showed up and joined Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban in inspecting the meeting area on Friday. The blue-shirts' status as a government force was open.

"There were not just volunteers from Chon Buri; plain-clothes police and military officials were among them,'' a police source said.

Using mobsters to confront mobsters is not a good strategy or a good method to disperse protesters; on the contrary, it fuels violence. Undeniably the use of the blue-shirts was a big mistake.

Newin denied he was behind the blue-shirts, saying he was in Pattaya to help if the situation turned ugly as he knew some leaders of the red-shirts and might mediate a solution.

He said security officials had not moved in because they did not want to clash with protesters. "It is not a matter of how many security officials are deployed now but what is the goal of the protest leaders and how they pursue that goal,'' he said.

During the confrontations between the blue-shirts and red-shirts yesterday morning, reporters saw Newin instructing the blue-shirts by phone not to let the red-shirts into the hotel area. Then he was seen taking a motorcycle to the scene to give orders in person.

Edited April 12, 2009 by cmsally

[Richard W]

At some time in the future the PAD will have to call new elections (unless they change the constitution). When those elections are held the PAD will lose. They will be defeated by Thaksin Shinawatra be they called Thai Ruk Thai, P.P.P.,U.D.D. - the name is not important - what is important is what the party stands for.

Do you not recall that there were by-elections as a result of the dissolution of PPP? Compared to the general election, the result was a swing towards the Democrat-led coalition. This was a clear endorsement of the parliament's choice of government.

I do find Abhisit's reluctance to call an election surprising. With the worsening economy, the longer he leaves it, the worse I would expect the results to be. Are the Democrats to be condemned to cleaning up others' messes and getting none of the credit? Perhaps Newin's friends can't yet afford an election.

What would be a nice name for the northern part of the country if it became a new nation?

If just the North split off, it could revert to Lanna(thai). New Siam perhaps?

If the North + North East split off, it might conceivably become 'Great Lao' (P®athet Lao Nyai). The Northern Thai have been known as the Western Lao. Heading into fantasy land, they could even revive the old script they share with their neighbours in Chiengtung and Sipsongpanna - it's got an influential friend at Microsoft and his former colleagues have been working on Linux support.

The Thai territory of Siam could then revert to being called Siam.

Please let's be clear here... I use my words carefully... brainless = brains have been lost because of no use, retard = on the international IQ scale, most Thais are classified as that by their average IQ of 88.

So let me ask this question, is your wife Thai? Well she married you and by your judment of Thai's ability to think she must be...

You appear to concur in a low opinion of her judgement!

[aaaaaa]

in my view those responsible for this debarcle are the organisers of the summit, no one else

...

which moron allowed that to happen?

its those heads that should roll not the PM's

for me, anyone involved in the organisation of this summit should be fired right now.

sure, a lot could have been done .

instead Blue were allowed to show up and taunt Reds, infact SHOOT guns at them.

the moron you're asking about is certainly Suthep, since he is in charge of security.

and surely his head will not roll, Abhisit simply has no guts to make it happen!

my guess is - NOBODY's heads will roll, except perhaps few more police chiefs being moved to other places.

insted Suthep, genious of security, will devise (or may be already has devised?) some devious plan to escalate it into further tention and real violence by laying the whole blame on Reds.

already Thai MSM are on full forward offensive eagerly selling government's version of the story.

so, I am afraid Suthep will somehow find a way of heavy crackdown on Reds. which perhaps actually they are waiting for.

then most likely the much bigger trouble may occur, with whole "Colored blend" (Yellows+Blue+Brown aka army Vs Reds)

and then surely Abhisit' head will roll too.

or may be Abhisit will simply be told by his REAL bosses (army and rich) to resing, he'll humbly obey as such a good boy he is, and pave a way for Gen. Prawit as PM & Newin in background, actually closer to forground then during Abhisit's short term.

anther General in power, with strongman as back up.

perhaps this whole deal was junta's plan B all along since the beginning, say since BEFORE the so called "Referendum".

now it looks to me that this whole Consitution 2007 was written with situation as this one in mind - in fact, what a PERFECT situation it is, to allow Military to step in,

sort of "no other choice", and totally Constitutionally sieze power back!

I don't doubt for a second that Abhisit is expandable for them.

[Thai at Heart]

Well patently Newin had no problem to be seen as the organiser of the blues.

This leads to the most obvious question, what does he gain from this? This seems like a pretty desperate ploy when considering that there will be a lot of people against what the reds have done, so why on earth be so visible in showing who organised the blues?

[LevelHead]

In basic summary NOTHING that has happened since the coup is legitimate, and this is the crux of the problem. The 2006 Coup was against the law and a treasonous act according to the in place "Peoples Constitution of 1997".

Simply because they replaced it with a new constitution that was only just managed to get through a referendum that was held under Martial Law in places, with the Coup leaders spending lots of money "educating" villagers to accept it and with a blanket Army order to vote yes and with the threat that "if you do not accept it there will not be an election for many years".

Just because they did that, does not take away from the fact that all goings on since the 2006 coup have been illegal under the previous constitution. And so everything since that date has no legitimacy and its why the country is now totally messed up.

A simple summary of events could be (and there is no implication this is actually what happened, its for discussion purposes only) -

Thaksin was getting too powerful and well liked.

Thaksin was clamping down on corruption of the Elites.

Thaksin was spreading the money out to the people, like Robin Hood, take it from the top level Elite and give to the lower levels and spread the wealth.

This upset the Elite.

They paid big money for a coup.

The coup happened, it was illegal under the previous constitution so that had to be thrown in the bin to remove the "treason" from the coup.

The Elite who paid big money wanted Thaksin "disgraced, humbled and if possible dead as well".

The Coup leaders appointed new judges, made up a new department to find Thaksin guilty of everything possible they could make up, invent, think of.

A new constitution was rammed down the peoples throats, along with the banning of most of Thaksin's party (TRT) so that the Dems would win the election.

The Dems failed to win the election, the Elite big money that was behind the coup and the new constitution were totally upset.

The big money Elite then backs the PAD to bring down all who stand in the way of getting the Dems into power.

Dissolve them, ban them, water them down, buy them into a coalition, we do not care but the Dems MUST be in power.

Whatever way the big money Elite want the Dems in power, and finally get what they want.

But it goes wrong as some common people have woken up to whats going on, Thaksin in an act of revenge starts telling information about the system and how it works and who pulls what strings, the people knew that in their minds but finally get someone on the inside to say it in public. This acts as a catalyst for those who want more, and not less, democracy. Although many do not support Thaksin, they realise that by joining his bandwagon they can achieve more for the good of the common rural poor than they can by being a dissenting voice on their own. The movement snowballs.

“Average Man” knows that’s going on and supports the reds, but is fed up of all of the goings on, so he keeps quiet and turns a blind eye, if he meets a Yellow he bemoans the Reds, if he meets a Red he supports them, but turn on the TV in the privacy of his own home and he cheers the Reds and hope they win.

“Average Man” knows his place in society, he has been beaten into it over many years, if he scratches an Elites 7 series BMW he knows he might be killed for it, if he bumps into Elites “mia noi number 1” then he knows he could be in big trouble, if he were ever to be seen not supporting the views of the local Elites representative, he knows his family will be in big trouble. Such is the life of the “Average Man”, he is a slave under the system and too scared to have a voice. Farangs moan about why “Average Man” does not do more about whats going on, but Farang can run away, “Average Man” must face the consequences of poverty or death or beatings for his action.

SO WHAT HAPPENS NEXT –

DON’T CARE – the Elite tell the Democrats to just get on with it and ignore everything that’s going on around them. “We don’t care about the unwashed”, continue as normal and it will all just die away in time, and if it does not then who cares anyway, we are still ok. Abhisit is replaced with an ex-military strongman. This causes more public backlash as Mr Nice Guy is gone and more people join the reds.

COUP VERSION A – this is the coup again sponsored by the big money Elite, they pay for another coup and this time totally remove the voting rights of the people. An appointed government will bring in that all future elections will only represent 30% of the parliament. The direct appointed 70% retain always the power, and the Elite for ever more have the power and control, and no nasty Thaksin like people can ever threaten them again. This is more open that simply pulling the strings of the puppet Democrat government, and does not hide under the guise of democracy they have at the moment with the Democrats. “Coup A” amends the 2008 Coup constitution to stop democracy for ever more.

COUP VERSION B – a section of the military finally has enough of the way the Elite are causing the destruction to Thailand simply to get the power back in their hands and remove the democracy from the people (or someone like Thaksin pays them). They side with Thaksin and unite together to once and for all rid Thailand of some of the most evil elements of the Elite. Its not the perfect situation but certainly finally gives the people of Thailand more power than they ever had before. This “Coup B” wipes all slates clean and reinstates the 1997 constitution.

Coup version A might be forced to happen. The Elite know fully well that the soldiers and police are mostly North and North Eastern/Eastern men and women. This is the majority of the Thai population and the poorest area’s, so it’s the natural recruitment base. These people know what Thaksin did for their hometowns and villages and families, and so have no fight against him or the TRT/PPP/PTP/ Reds.

When the Yellows protested the police/soldiers could not disobey orders and so were powerless. Any action against direct orders to take no action would land them in hot water.

When the Reds protest the police/soldiers agree with them, and so will not do anything against them, and no general is willing to officially give an order to kill, as they know they will be blamed later. With no official orders the soldiers and police will happily stand around doing nothing.

I think a Coup is perhaps the only way out of this now at this juncture without knowing further events, it allows slates to be wiped clean, or it allows people to remove democracy totally. One is going to happen, will it be slate clean, or dead democracy. The immediate future is very interesting. We are actually witnessing now the first ever battle of wills between the “common people” and the “Elite”.

The worry is of course that “Coup A” could lead to a civilian uprising, the “civil war” some people speak about. To finally have to show their hand, to have to visibly and openly take away the freedoms and rights of the people, it might be the “straw that breaks the camels back” and the “great unwashed” finally rise up against the Elite.

As the Chinese say, “May you live in interesting times”. These certainly are interesting times.

Edited April 12, 2009 by LevelHead

[mc2]

There seem to be a lot of news and articles out today regarding Newin being on the ground in Pattaya directing operations.

As well as Suthep and Police Chief (who is defense minister's brother) inspecting the hotel beforehand.

Here he is on the back of a motorbike.

Matichon article in Thai about Newin's role and the blue shirts.

Matichon

This is from the Nation, more about Newin's role

Nation

Newin shows his hand as blue-shirts' boss

Published on April 12, 2009

The appearance of the blue-shirt protesters yesterday was not unprecedented. The group showed up on March 26 vowing to prevent the red-shirts from laying siege to Suvarnabhumi Airport. Members of the blue-shirts are believed to be Interior Ministry volunteers and canvassers for the Bhum Jai Thai party, and party leader Newin Chidchob is believed to be pulling the strings. With King Power as a major financier of his party, Newin cannot afford to see the red-shirts besiege the airport.

Though the blue-shirts have the clear objective of opposing the red-shirts and protecting the government, this time the arrival of the blue-shirts was different, because Newin showed up and joined Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban in inspecting the meeting area on Friday. The blue-shirts' status as a government force was open.

"There were not just volunteers from Chon Buri; plain-clothes police and military officials were among them,'' a police source said.

Using mobsters to confront mobsters is not a good strategy or a good method to disperse protesters; on the contrary, it fuels violence. Undeniably the use of the blue-shirts was a big mistake.

Newin denied he was behind the blue-shirts, saying he was in Pattaya to help if the situation turned ugly as he knew some leaders of the red-shirts and might mediate a solution.

He said security officials had not moved in because they did not want to clash with protesters. "It is not a matter of how many security officials are deployed now but what is the goal of the protest leaders and how they pursue that goal,'' he said.

During the confrontations between the blue-shirts and red-shirts yesterday morning, reporters saw Newin instructing the blue-shirts by phone not to let the red-shirts into the hotel area. Then he was seen taking a motorcycle to the scene to give orders in person.

excellent info !

somebody asked what does he gain from it?

its more about what he has to lose -

his political future rests on the continuity of this goverment

he is branded a traitor by the other side. if a Thaksin gov get back in power - its payback time to newin

Edited April 12, 2009 by mc2

[seri thai]

Good post, bannas and coconuts lol The Chinese are considered to have an excellent business mind and are hard working. how would you describe the manifestation of the Thai and Chinese mix?

I'd describe it as running the country!