President Park

[jcon]

Sorry, I was going to post in the "Empty Units" thread but I figured I hijacked that thread enough already.

I'm a bit confused right now as to which condo is the President Park... is it the one with 4 buildings behind the Emporium? I swear that it is, but right now I'm doubting myself because for some reason I also remember something like the name President Park directly across from Camp Davis on Suk 24...

I'm talking about the condo that is connected to the serviced apartments/hotel? at the Emporium.... Does anybody here live there? How many units per floor? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated....

I ask because I'm looking at this unit:

http://www.cbre.co.th/en/bangkok-condo-Pre...Ref_No_7360.asp

And I'm confused as to which building it is... But I'd also like to have some input from people who live there or who have friends that live there... private? I'm interested if it's the building connected to the Emporium, not if it's the one across from Camp Davis.... and I know 17 million is expensive for that unit, I'm just using it as reference... I would think 13 million would be more appropriate, depending on the urgency of the seller and the condition of the unit itself... I'm sorry I had to post another thread, I would have posted in the other thread as I'm trying to find a condo for my friend that doesn't require her to blow 40 million on that Le Raffine project... but I guess this thread can stand on it's own.

Quiksilva, do you know this building? Rooms per floor? I know quicksilva and steveromagnino are the resident real estate professionals, but steveromagnino has been MIA since Dec 2008... what happened to him by the way...?

Thanks in advance.

jcon

[trogers]

Sorry, I was going to post in the "Empty Units" thread but I figured I hijacked that thread enough already.

I'm a bit confused right now as to which condo is the President Park... is it the one with 4 buildings behind the Emporium? I swear that it is, but right now I'm doubting myself because for some reason I also remember something like the name President Park directly across from Camp Davis on Suk 24...

I'm talking about the condo that is connected to the serviced apartments/hotel? at the Emporium.... Does anybody here live there? How many units per floor? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated....

I ask because I'm looking at this unit:

http://www.cbre.co.th/en/bangkok-condo-Pre...Ref_No_7360.asp

And I'm confused as to which building it is... But I'd also like to have some input from people who live there or who have friends that live there... private? I'm interested if it's the building connected to the Emporium, not if it's the one across from Camp Davis.... and I know 17 million is expensive for that unit, I'm just using it as reference... I would think 13 million would be more appropriate, depending on the urgency of the seller and the condition of the unit itself... I'm sorry I had to post another thread, I would have posted in the other thread as I'm trying to find a condo for my friend that doesn't require her to blow 40 million on that Le Raffine project... but I guess this thread can stand on it's own.

Quiksilva, do you know this building? Rooms per floor? I know quicksilva and steveromagnino are the resident real estate professionals, but steveromagnino has been MIA since Dec 2008... what happened to him by the way...?

Thanks in advance.

jcon

President Park Sukhumvit are all 5 blocks: 4 behind the podium with the dome fabric roof, and one block across the small soi from Davis Hotel.

I constructed that fabric roof for them back in 1992.

[jcon]

Thanks trogers, am I correct that the one block across from camp davis is all offices, not residences?

Another question: does anybody know anybody who lives there (or lives there themselves)? How many rooms per floor is the main question as privacy is the main concern... high ceilings? Thick walls? Any idea of price per sqm (ballpark)... thanks in advance.

[trogers]

Thanks trogers, am I correct that the one block across from camp davis is all offices, not residences?

Another question: does anybody know anybody who lives there (or lives there themselves)? How many rooms per floor is the main question as privacy is the main concern... high ceilings? Thick walls? Any idea of price per sqm (ballpark)... thanks in advance.

All 5 blocks are residential. I am not aware any are offices, unless some occupants have converted their units.

I do not know the details inside the block near to camp davis. The former owner of one of my old condo has bought a unit there. I can ask him the details.

[jcon]

Thanks trogers, am I correct that the one block across from camp davis is all offices, not residences?

Another question: does anybody know anybody who lives there (or lives there themselves)? How many rooms per floor is the main question as privacy is the main concern... high ceilings? Thick walls? Any idea of price per sqm (ballpark)... thanks in advance.

All 5 blocks are residential. I am not aware any are offices, unless some occupants have converted their units.

I do not know the details inside the block near to camp davis. The former owner of one of my old condo has bought a unit there. I can ask him the details.

Thanks trojers... would be much appreciated... whatever building is closest to the Emporium would be best, and the one I would have most interest in (not really interested in the block across Camp Davis)... and I would really like to know how many units per floor, and if there are penthouses (of course there are, but duplex, etc... or floors where there are only a few units per floor... or floors with private elevators)... Thank you so much.... and also if there is a service where owners are selling directly (like a list with the doorman, etc... I really don't like agents)...

jcon

[quiksilva]

Hey Jcon! I'm an agent!

Some clarification President Park is a property developer they have a number of developments including serviced apartments on Soi 11 as well as Soi 24.

Looking at the details I'd say that it was almost certainly the development opposite The Davis Hotel. Its correct name is Park View Juristic Condominium and is compromised of four towers, Ebony, Cedar, Pine, and Oak. Three units per floor, depending on the floor, there are also some duplexes and penthouse studio units above. The development also has two serviced apartments and the Capital Club. Across the street is a single tower, known as Harbour View Juristic Condominium, aka Mahogany Tower. The property management is (was) done by CBRE not sure if they still do.

Its a development I know intimately, as I was the GM there for close to two years. It was my first assignment in Bangkok twelve long years ago which in retrospect could only be described as a baptism by fire. I could tell you some stories.... but it wouldn't be proper for me to do so on these forums, perhaps over a beer sometime!

Value wise units can probably be had in there for 50-60,000 per square meter.

I wont go into more detail as you said you are not that interested, and in this case I encourage you to follow your instincts...

[thaihome]

The development attached to the Emporium is the Emporium Suites, I believe it is only serviced apts and there are no individual owned units.

TH

[jcon]

Thanks quiksilva and thaihome.

I guess I'm going to have to make a run down there myself - because I can't quite picture it in my head... I've been to the Emporium god knows how many times, but I've only ever noticed the 4 big buildings behind it... behind the park, right?

Where is the entrance to the project (both the 4 towers and the 1 single tower)? Can you enter from the Emporium entrance (that would be nice). And are all 5 buildings surrounding the park (that would be nice, too). 3 rooms per floor is excellent (that link I posted has that nice audio system... I like my music loud)... and I assume that the walls are nice and thick because that's just how they were back in the old days, right?

My gripe with that condo in the link I posted was no pics of the kitchen. As an American, I need huge kitchens and bathrooms (even though this condo isn't even for me, I would expect to be spending some time there...)

I can pm you quiksilva for further info, etc.... just posted this post here in case anybody else was interested, as it's general info, kinda

edit: I just saw that I commented about agents, haha quiksilva... but you are ok in my book, as you are a SAAB fan....

Edited April 28, 2009 by jcon

[trogers]

President Park is not near to the Emporium. It is almost 1 km into Soi 24, near to camp davis.

I do not think you can play loud music, even with brick party walls. You have to soundproof the walls, ceiling and floor of a bedroom to convert it to a music room.

[jcon]

Thanks trogers... I don't like that part of the soi near Camp Davis so much... plus in the near future suk 24 is going to be a traffic nightmare (it already is, as it's a main shortcut between Rama 4 and Sukhumvit - with the addition of all the new condos and cars and people.... ***shudder***)

And yes, agreed about the sound issue. This is another HUGE reason why I'm saying stay in the house, no need to buy a condo... My friend has a MASSIVE sound system, actually it's 2 systems, one with receivers and amps running B&Ws all around, and another (for playback of studio recording) running some high end stuff and components that I don't how to function and Nexo monitors all around... she will crank it up until the house shakes at any hour, day or night as she pleases.... another good thing about having a detached house on a decent-sized plot of land... perhaps the best thing! For reference, I have another friend with that little dinky Harmon Kardon jellyfish-looking-thing setup to play her ipod, and even at mid/high-volume, her neighbors in her condo complain... total buzz-kill.

[trogers]

And yes, agreed about the sound issue. This is another HUGE reason why I'm saying stay in the house, no need to buy a condo... My friend has a MASSIVE sound system, actually it's 2 systems, one with receivers and amps running B&Ws all around, and another (for playback of studio recording) running some high end stuff and components that I don't how to function and Nexo monitors all around... she will crank it up until the house shakes at any hour, day or night as she pleases.... another good thing about having a detached house on a decent-sized plot of land... perhaps the best thing! For reference, I have another friend with that little dinky Harmon Kardon jellyfish-looking-thing setup to play her ipod, and even at mid/high-volume, her neighbors in her condo complain... total buzz-kill.

If your friend has the chance to buy a piece of land and design and build a house, I would recommend a 1.6m deep half basement with a toilet, store and stairs by the side to serve as an entertainment den. Then there will be less problems with disturbance to neighbours.

[quiksilva]

Pics of the place here:

http://www.cbre.co.th/en/President-Park.asp

[namoo]

I looked at few of the available rentals in Ebony Tower and Cedar last week. Oh my god they are so badly in need of renovation it is untrue. 85,000THB for quite frankly a sh1thole.

All the nicely renovated ones are snapped up very very quickly - what is left is a total disaster - I really dont know how some of the owners have the nerve to put them on the rental market. The ones I looked at for 85,000-90,000 I honestly would not pay 40,000 for. The size is fine the room were rundown, smelling, dirty, old old old furniture. Take a look at some of the new buildings in the soi and see what you get for the same money puts in in perspective.

If u can find a new renovated one in the complex snap it up. The location is actually pretty good for capitol club, tops, starbucks, au bon pain, some half-decent restaurants, bts etc.

I still think its the best soi to stay in Sukhumvit, away from the sleeze and generally nice feel about it.

Edited April 29, 2009 by namoo

[donx]

I looked at few of the available rentals in Ebony Tower and Cedar last week. Oh my god they are so badly in need of renovation it is untrue. 85,000THB for quite frankly a sh1thole.

All the nicely renovated ones are snapped up very very quickly - what is left is a total disaster - I really dont know how some of the owners have the nerve to put them on the rental market. The ones I looked at for 85,000-90,000 I honestly would not pay 40,000 for. The size is fine the room were rundown, smelling, dirty, old old old furniture. Take a look at some of the new buildings in the soi and see what you get for the same money puts in in perspective.

If u can find a new renovated one in the complex snap it up. The location is actually pretty good for capitol club, tops, starbucks, au bon pain, some half-decent restaurants, bts etc.

I still think its the best soi to stay in Sukhumvit, away from the sleeze and generally nice feel about it.

Since jcon is looking for a unit his friend will buy rather than rent, perhaps the condition of the finishing and furniture is not a significant consideration.

[namoo]

Same thing if he buys it - Extensive and I mean extensive renovation costs in a lot of the units available for sale in P.park

[trogers]

Same thing if he buys it - Extensive and I mean extensive renovation costs in a lot of the units available for sale in P.park

Price of a 250m2 2bed/2bath/1toilet - Bt13.5m

Renovation and furnishing - Bt2.5m

Total investment - Bt 16.0m

6% return - Bt960,000/year = Bt80,000/month + Bt5,000 = rental rate at Bt85,000/mth

Not rentable at this price, more likely Bt65,000/mth

Thus, many units are not being refurbished even though the units are over 15 years old.

[RAZZELL]

Same thing if he buys it - Extensive and I mean extensive renovation costs in a lot of the units available for sale in P.park

Price of a 250m2 2bed/2bath/1toilet - Bt13.5m

Renovation and furnishing - Bt2.5m

Total investment - Bt 16.0m

6% return - Bt960,000/year = Bt80,000/month + Bt5,000 = rental rate at Bt85,000/mth

Not rentable at this price, more likely Bt65,000/mth

Thus, many units are not being refurbished even though the units are over 15 years old.

trogers, you seem extremely knowledgeable about the Bangkok market. I thought the President Park would be a nice place to live, but looking at the figures, maybe not such a good investment.

If you don't mind sharing, could you suggest a couple of condo's that currently fit your "investment criteria", and are these criteria different for a place "to live in"?

Plus, didn't you mention somewhere about some "repossessed" units at PP?

Many thanks

RAZZ

Edited May 3, 2009 by RAZZELL

[trogers]

Same thing if he buys it - Extensive and I mean extensive renovation costs in a lot of the units available for sale in P.park

Price of a 250m2 2bed/2bath/1toilet - Bt13.5m

Renovation and furnishing - Bt2.5m

Total investment - Bt 16.0m

6% return - Bt960,000/year = Bt80,000/month + Bt5,000 = rental rate at Bt85,000/mth

Not rentable at this price, more likely Bt65,000/mth

Thus, many units are not being refurbished even though the units are over 15 years old.

trogers, you seem extremely knowledgeable about the Bangkok market. I thought the President Park would be a nice place to live, but looking at the figures, maybe not such a good investment.

If you don't mind sharing, could you suggest a couple of condo's that currently fit your "investment criteria", and are these criteria different for a place "to live in"?

Plus, didn't you mention somewhere about some "repossessed" units at PP?

Many thanks

RAZZ

Yes, I was approached by a neighbour asking some assistance regarding auction by the Legal Execution Department of some units in PP. I acquired a 163m2 unit at Premier through such an auction.

PP is okay if you can secure a unit (I think all are 3-bedroom, not 2-bedroom) below Bt50,000/m2. I did suggest PP to a member who is looking for a unit as residence (not for letting out).

At the moment, rental rates have fall below 6% yield for units at PP due to their large sizes, making acquisition cost high.

My investment at the moment are in 4 condo units: a 1-bedroom 45m2 and a 2-bedroom 70m2 at Waterford Park Rama 4, and a 2-bedroom 121m2 and a 3-bedroom 163m2 at Premier Sukhumvit 24.

I am staying in the 1-bedroom unit until end of Aug as my own condo is under extension (bought the next door unit), then some repainting and cleaning up for letting. Both the 2-bedroom units are rent out. The 3-bedroom unit is under refurbishment and scheduled to be completed mid-Sept.

I invested in Premier because it is an old low rise (only 12 floors) against a street of new 30+ storeys projects. I concentrated on getting a min. 6% yield from rental at this downturn, and anticipate this building will be attractive for redevelopment some 15-18 years from now. Being a low rise, each unit's share of the land will be high.

Waterford Rama 4 is a 13 years old project along lower Sukhumvit that offers living-in-a-park environment (not city apartment layout). Acquisition cost is low and yield at this downturn is 7% or more. I doubt you will be able to find a similar concept along lower Sukhumvit that sells around Bt35,000/m2. In addition, it is low-rise 8-storey.

My evaluation criteria are: min. yield on investment at this downturn, ease of renting out in such a location and layout of the development, and finally, prospect of redevelopment 2 property cycles in the future (one cycle assumed at 8-9 years) and my share when the whole project is sold for redevelopment.

Some may be critical about including future redevelopment as a criterion for evaluation, but then, this is why a freehold differs from a 30-year leasehold.

Edited May 3, 2009 by trogers

[TonySoprano]

why would it take 2.5m baht to renovate a condo a 250m2 condo? that seems steep. labor is cheap. people are building houses for that much money else where so materials cant be that expensive. something not adding up.

[trogers]

why would it take 2.5m baht to renovate a condo a 250m2 condo? that seems steep. labor is cheap. people are building houses for that much money else where so materials cant be that expensive. something not adding up.

Bt10,000/m2 is a budget for total refurbishment - removing all and leaving just a shell.

Don't forget this is a condo in the middle of town, not an open field in the province. There is time restriction for transporting materials and rubbish, and restricted working hours and days in a week. If you have done refurbishment work in an operating oil refinery, as opposed to building a new one, you will understand.

[RAZZELL]

Look at this one:

http://www.bahtsold.com/detail.php?id=27782

Price at nearly 21m baht seems a bit ambitious

RAZZ

Edited May 3, 2009 by RAZZELL

[trogers]

Look at this one:

http://www.bahtsold.com/detail.php?id=27782

Price at nearly 21m baht seems a bit ambitious

RAZZ

My do-it-yourself cost only Bt16-17m for 261m2.

[RAZZELL]

Look at this one:

http://www.bahtsold.com/detail.php?id=27782

Price at nearly 21m baht seems a bit ambitious

RAZZ

My do-it-yourself cost only Bt16-17m for 261m2.

Yes, but where do you buy one for Bt 50,000 m2 ?

RAZZ

[trogers]

Look at this one:

http://www.bahtsold.com/detail.php?id=27782

Price at nearly 21m baht seems a bit ambitious

RAZZ

My do-it-yourself cost only Bt16-17m for 261m2.

Yes, but where do you buy one for Bt 50,000 m2 ?

RAZZ

The average price at PP is Bt55,000/m2. I would expect lower successful bids for the few units of PP (possibly 15-20% lower than the ave price) at the auction carried out by the Legal execution Department.

[RAZZELL]

The average price at PP is Bt55,000/m2. I would expect lower successful bids for the few units of PP (possibly 15-20% lower than the ave price) at the auction carried out by the Legal execution Department.

If I get this right, a repossessed property is auctioned by the LED and the money goes back to those owed the debt? How does this differ from a bank auction?

Finally, can you make an "offer" before auction as in the UK?

Once again, many thanks

RAZZ

Edited May 4, 2009 by RAZZELL

[trogers]

The average price at PP is Bt55,000/m2. I would expect lower successful bids for the few units of PP (possibly 15-20% lower than the ave price) at the auction carried out by the Legal execution Department.

If I get this right, a repossessed property is auctioned by the LED and the money goes back to those owed the debt? How does this differ from a bank auction?

Finally, can you make an "offer" before auction as in the UK?

Once again, many thanks

RAZZ

You can only make an offer in a private auction, and the owner of the bid item can make an acceptance, and the item is taken off the auction. But this cannot be done in a foreclosure auction, as it has to be seen that the best effort has been made to obtain the best offer - a duty for the benefit of the property owner, as the property was foreclosed by the creditor.

A bank auction is different. The bank made a successful bid for the property in an LED auction, and then re-auction it again. The bank usually do this when the best bid in an LED auction is deemed too low compared with perceived market value. Thus, you may be able to place a lower successful bid directly in a LED auction.

Edited May 4, 2009 by trogers

[RAZZELL]

You can only make an offer in a private auction, and the owner of the bid item can make an acceptance, and the item is taken off the auction. But this cannot be done in a foreclosure auction, as it has to be seen that the best effort has been made to obtain the best offer - a duty for the benefit of the property owner, as the property was foreclosed by the creditor.

A bank auction is different. The bank made a successful bid for the property in an LED auction, and then re-auction it again. The bank usually do this when the best bid in an LED auction is deemed too low compared with perceived market value. Thus, you may be able to place a lower successful bid directly in a LED auction.

I suppose you have to find a jewel in all the dross. You could be just as lucky putting in a cheeky offer to a seller who needs the money.

Many thanks

RAZZ

[RAZZELL]

If anyone was interested, there were (are) a couple at PP for sale here:

http://www.condobangkok.com/index.asp

RAZZ

[trogers]

If anyone was interested, there were (are) a couple at PP for sale here:

http://www.condobangkok.com/index.asp

RAZZ

Are you working for Michael?

[RAZZELL]

If anyone was interested, there were (are) a couple at PP for sale here:

http://www.condobangkok.com/index.asp

RAZZ

Are you working for Michael?

Don't even know him...If it's the above lot they look like they've got a few quid, I doubt if they need my help!

RAZZ