Tsunami Victims Ready To Sue USA And Thailand

[Insight]

How can any government be at fault when this was act of mother nature??

Sorry, irrelevant in Court.

No, wasn't it an act of God?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He'll be present in court in spirit.

[joinme2leave]

to those of u ignorantly critisising the austrians: it is ED FAGAN who initiated that lawsuit and it HIS promised lies that there might be good chances to succeed. Similar lawsuit still goes on in austria (to be accurate: in my home town, a 100% tourism oriented region) as well and he (Fagan) does not care at all if (t)his senseless and mostly in favor of his own PR oriented procedure worsens impact on thai tourism.

[The_Moog]

HIS promised lies that there might be good chances to succeed.

This litigator may be a shyster, but I think once people start thinking about the chronology of the circumstances, the gradual northward progression of the wave, (plus an admission of guilt from the Thai Meterologists), they will see that there is merit there.

At that stage, a real legal team might start assembling a Case.

I know its all very sad, and you can't bring them back, but if my kids had been killed on the Sofitel's property, i'd be gunning for that Hotel Chain.

Edited February 17, 2005 by The_Moog

[Boh Bpen Yang]

The NOAA and USGS made the reports to those who may have been affected. It is a systematic procedure that reports every earthquake anywhere in the world in a timely and efficient manner. What the governments and other entities decide to do with that information is out of their control.

USGS Bulletin

NOAA Tsunami events

There currently is no Tsunami detection system in the Indian Ocean, so, speculation must be made as to the possibility of occurance.

However, USGS still monitors this area for seismic activity and gives updated reports on a regular basis. This is more than any other government in the world is doing to warn and protect people outside it's own realm of direct concern.

Where is the fault?

The worst hit area, Aceh, had no doubt that there had been a very sizable earthquake. They didn't need an advisory to tell them. The felt it and saw their homes falling. There was nothing they could do!! Some 45 minutes later the tsunami hit Thailand. By this time USGS bulletins were up of an earthquake of near record magnitude. At this time there was still no way to know that there was a tsunami.

I agree that it would have been prudent for the outlying countries having knowledge of the maginitude of the quake to at least warn local officials.

Whether, in Thailand, if even using all 45 minutes, it would have been enough to warn and evacuate on a speculation. Who can say? Almost surely, many lives would have been saved.

Conversely, on that same day, on that same seismic area, there were 5 or 6 quakes large enough to possibly create a tsunami. Several times per week, on that same seismic area there are quakes large enough to possibly create a tsunami. Taking into consideration that there is no tsunami detection system in the Indian Ocean, should everyone run to the hills at each of these possibilities?

This is not clear cut for these people who, understandably, are looking for someone to blame for their great and tragic loss.

[The_Moog]

"Big wave hit Ko Lanta 45 minutes ago, everyone upstairs to the second floor".

That would have saved a few in the Sofitel, Khao Lak.

[Boh Bpen Yang]

"Big wave hit Ko Lanta 45 minutes ago, everyone upstairs to the second floor".

That would have saved a few in the Sofitel, Khao Lak.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I could not agree with you more!!!

Or teaching in school, "If the tide goes out really far and really fast. Get away... every time"!!!

Many Many LIVES could have been saved so easily so many ways!!!

But to the OP title. Why sue the US?

[The_Moog]

The big Hotel chains (them wot has the money to settle ) are US.

They then claim on their Public Liability Insurance Policies

The insurers then say 'Act of God, got knotted'...then the Hotel Chains sue the insurers saying...

'The tsunami was an Act of God, but our not warning the customers and getting them upstairs was due to our negligence in not making reasonable inferrence from the USGS quake alert and the fact that a bloddy big tidal wave had hit resorts half an hour before'

Edited February 17, 2005 by The_Moog

[amazing_29]

How can any government be at fault when this was act of mother nature??

Sorry, irrelevant in Court.

No, wasn't it an act of God?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quote

It's absolutely amazing how much "hind-sight" some people have. If the earthquake and ensuing tsunami could have been predicted by someone, then we needed those same people around when the volcano erupted in the Phillipines, killing hundreds, and when Mt Vesuvius erupted in Italy, burying the city of Pompei, and when the fire broke out in the hotel in Jomtein, killing hundreds. Wow.....you guys are great.....you should be prognosticators yourselves then you could put the blame where it belongs..... even BEFORE it happens.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you are a stupid moron. it is obvious that you have so very little education. the fact that i have hind sight is only because i went to school unlike you. while certain natural diasters can not at this time be predicted like when an earthquake, volcano will happen. if an earthquake happens in the ocean of anythiing ovr 6.5 there will be a tsunami of potential great destruction. it is a proven fact. so yes volcanos, eatrthquakes can not be predicted but tsunami can be. but where it will head exactly may not be known but why would any government take the chance especially when it was 9.1. one of the greatest in recorded history.

[kandt]

Yes I agree LaoPo, The Tsunami WAS known about well ahead of time, but no one bothered to contact the countries in jeopardy.

I for one think they have a case.

Not quite so; the Thai Meteological Institute knew about the earthquake 15 minutes after it had occured, through a warning from, among others, NOAA, however, deciced to neglect the warning. Unfortunately, this kind of lawsuit, although highly appropriate, cannot be brought to court in Thailand.

Cheers..........kandt

[Boh Bpen Yang]

Maybe when NOAA or USGS give warnings to sovereign governments and they disregard them, the US should be obliged to take action against said governments to insure that US did all that is reasonably expected of them? I don't think so.

The US is half a world away and was more on top of this than any of the local governments. There was no negligence especially willfull negligence on their part.

I am not sure this is true of the Thai government yet I don't know the Thai governments liability in such cases.

Sri Lanka had hours to prepare and there was no question of the overwhelming potential for a tsunamui.

If hotels had knowledge of this and were neglegent in warning customers, that is another matter entirely and has nothing to do with the US government agencies involved. ad nausium NOAA and USGS had knowledge and they warned.

[The_Moog]

the Thai Meteological Institute knew about the earthquake 15 minutes after it had occured

I knew about it 15 minutes before they did then !!!

I thought my building in Witthayu Road was falling down. Call that a "Warning" alright!- I was out of here in my pyjamas !!!!

This isn't a seismic area, so it was either the building collapsing or something enormous was happening thousands of miles away.

Back indoors half an hour later - onThaivisa. - USGS website details was posted by a member, had a look...'ah, Aceh'

By nine o clock I was eating my bacon and eggs.

Same time - Meterological Office were worried about upsetting the tourists.

[ray23]

LOL...the sewers of all sewers "USA" are sewed......not that it is a good thing, but somewhere it is ok.....just to know for the dudes that they aren't ruling the world..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have got to be kidding, not one American I have ever met wants to rule the world, to big a mess

[toastwars]

How can any government be at fault when this was act of mother nature??

Sorry, irrelevant in Court.

No, wasn't it an act of God?

He'll be present in court in spirit.

suing you lot for defamation of character

[meemiathai]

if an earthquake happens in the ocean of anythiing ovr 6.5 there will be a tsunami of potential great destruction. it is a proven fact. so yes volcanos, eatrthquakes can not be predicted but tsunami can be. but where it will head exactly may not be known but why would any government take the chance especially when it was 9.1. one of the greatest in recorded history.

Is that the case? Could you educate us more? How sure are you that the tsunami WAS going to hit Thailand, Sri lanka, India and Somali? Do the scientists know as much as you do?

Can anyone here tell me if there were indeed anyone in this world who knew for SURE an hour earlier that a tsunami was heading towards those countries? What did they do? If not, then who are we blaming? Blaming someone for a wrong decision? Can you guys honestly imagine yourselves being the ones to make decisions? What would you have done? Did they know the percentage of chance a tsunami was on its way?

Is there a consensus amongst world scientists that governments should evacuate people from the shores if an earthquake of certain degree occurs within certain distance?

I would say also sue the Somalian Govt for not issuing warnings to its citizens as I am quite sure they were aware of certain areas being hit by a tsunami a few hours ahead.

[meemiathai]

Should a government also issue an earthquake warning to the country if a zoologist inform them that he noticed a lot of ants evacuating from the ground?

My opinion, too much movies you guys! Get real!

[meemiathai]

My opinion again, the ones in charge have no idea/knowledge on how true a tsunami was indeed on its way.

Poor judgement? I think yes.

Responsible? Let the court decide.

[The_Moog]

How sure are you that the tsunami WAS going to hit Thailand

how true a tsunami was indeed on its way.

Ok Lets forgive them not doing anything till the first surge of water hit the beach down in Satun Province.

It didn't hit everywhere after that simultaneously. It was a sequence - one after another after another.

Its that missing 90 minutes when the country is actually 'under attack' - from a real - no longer hypothetical - wave heading North and wreaking chaos ----- and they've STILL got their fingers up their bottoms !

Edited February 17, 2005 by The_Moog

[george]

Update:

No official reports of tsunami-death relatives to sue Thai govt

BANGKOK: -- Thailand's Office of the Attorney-General has not yet received any official reports that families of foreign tourists who died in the 26 December tsunamis have planned to sue the Thai government.

The local media has published reports that the families of 19 German and Austria tourists who were killed during the tsunamis planned to sue the Thai government in a US court in New York this week.

The relatives accuse the Thai government of failing to issue a tsunami warning that could have saved their lives.

The Thai government did not know of any legal case being brought against it, the

Spokesman of the Office of Attorney-General, Sirisak Tiyapan, told TNA.

Under the Thai laws, the Thai government cannot be sued because it has no status as a legal identity and is not responsible for the damage caused during a natural disaster.

A lawsuit could only be lodged against certain government officials or specific government agencies, he noted

“If the accounts are true, we have to study US and international laws in details,” he said.

Mr. Sirisak said, however, that he believed the chance of filing a lawsuit against the Thai government in a US court was slim, as the incident was a natural disaster and beyond human control.

--TNA 2005-02-17

[cookiesunshinex]

EXCUSE ME!!!??? What "SEWER of LIFE " did you crawel out of???

You can't be a American.. or at least a true blue American..

The lawsuit is what it is, a "freedom" to voice one opinion in America..

Thank the powers that may be... you can do such a thing in a land where freedom rules.. Here in Mickey Mouse land what freedom do you really have??? 

MONEY buys me everything I want here.. but true honesty from the people..do not make me laugh any harder than I can.. Here in LIARLAND do you really think you could even make a statement??? Hardly... AMERICA ROCKS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not all of us Americans feel like this.

The facade of "Freedom" in America is implanted very well to Americans through a very powerful propagana machine...mostly to the ones who do not travel and are not open minded (which unfortunately, is quite a few).

Why are you in Thailand if you feel like this is Liarland and America Rocks?

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

the chance of filing a lawsuit against the Thai government in a US court was slim, as the incident was a natural disaster and beyond human control.

What a silly man.

Issuing a Warning wasn't beyond human control.

Its like saying that the Songkran road kill is beyond human control - as the Government can't be there physically to prevent a motorcyclist from falling off when someone throws icy water over him.

[Artisan]

The facade of "Freedom" in America is implanted very well to Americans through a very powerful propagana machine...mostly to the ones who do not travel and are not open minded (which unfortunately, is quite a few).

I agree. You've hit the target with the words "facade" and "propaganda". They are the right words but that should read....."(which unfortunately, is a helluva lot)".

[george]

American politics discussions -->> Please continue at http://www.bearpit.net

[george]

Update:

Govt issues plea to foreign tsunami survivors

BANGKOK: -- The government today issued a plea for understanding from foreign survivors of the 26 December tsunamis after a group of tourists from Austria and Germany threatened to sue the Thai government on charges of negligence.

The 19-strong group has hired a lawyer to bring charges against the Thai government, the Accor Hotel group and the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) for failing to provide an advance warning of the tsunamis.

Responding to the group's allegations, Public Health Minister Sudarat Keyuraphan noted that no-one had wanted the tsunamis to occur, and that Thailand itself had experienced enormous loss, both of life and of property.

She also pointed out that the Thai government had received several letters of thanks from survivors from Germany and Sweden for the free medical care provided by the government.

Calling on understanding from the entire global community, she stressed that Thailand had never before been placed in an earthquake risk zone, and that after the tsunamis, it had provided a high level of assistance to both its own nationals and to foreigners.

--TNA 2005-02-17

[apetley]

As it's a natural disaster why dont they sue the church/religious bodies as ultimately it must be Gods doing.

[meemiathai]

the chance of filing a lawsuit against the Thai government in a US court was slim, as the incident was a natural disaster and beyond human control.

What a silly man.

Issuing a Warning wasn't beyond human control.

Its like saying that the Songkran road kill is beyond human control - as the Government can't be there physically to prevent a motorcyclist from falling off when someone throws icy water over him.

Did you see my posts?

Can you enlighten me what you would've done if you were in charge?

Make a nationwide broadcast urging everyone at the coastline of Thailand to run to high grounds?

I do agree if a system had been set already and the authorities had indeed chosen to risk people's lives, they should be held responsible. But is that the case?

Perhaps it is still good for them to file a lawsuit hopefully leading to an investigation on what the data were they really had at that time and let the experts decide.

[toastwars]

LOL...the sewers of all sewers "USA" are sewed......not that it is a good thing, but somewhere it is ok.....just to know for the dudes that they aren't ruling the world..

EXCUSE ME!!!??? What "SEWER of LIFE " did you crawel out of???

You can't be a American.. or at least a true blue American..

The lawsuit is what it is, a "freedom" to voice one opinion in America..

Thank the powers that may be... you can do such a thing in a land where freedom rules.. Here in Mickey Mouse land what freedom do you really have???

MONEY buys me everything I want here.. but true honesty from the people..do not make me laugh any harder than I can.. Here in LIARLAND do you really think you could even make a statement??? Hardly... AMERICA ROCKS

money can't buy you love.....and please correct your spelling you might give people the wrong impression..

he meant America sucks..allow me to clarify

[MickeyinPhuket]

Im not sure whether suing is right or wrong..

Arguements I have read here seem credible both for and against.

My personal experience is that the quake woke me, which if you ask my wife is NO EASY TASK.

I shrugged it off !

I got up and went to do my usual early morning visit to the bathroom.

As I sat there, I felt it again. This time I heard noise of heavy machinery outside, so in my mind, this machinery was the cause.

Shortly afterwards, my wife came home from her usual morning coffee on the beach. She told me that she had been sitting with a thai and german friend, when one of the restaurant owners nearby came and told them that she had just listened to reports of an earthquake on the Thai radio.

They all shrugged it off.

(We live in Kamala by the way.)

The next thing was a phone call from our son who was out at sea fishing. He had seen the first wave hit Kamala beach, he asked his mother to go to the beachfront and move his motorcycle because there was a big wave coming.

He hadnt seen the second wave at this point.

Even with all of this information presented to us, we never dreamed of what was going to happen.

Needless to say my wife didnt make it to the beachfront in time and ended up climbing on to the roof of a house to save herself.

What I did find very dissappointing was the lack of information in other languages afterwards !

For a TOURIST resort there was only information over the loudspeakers etc in THAI.

There were tourists wandering around aimlessly not knowing what to do or where to go. This made worse by the panic and fear caused by so many people running and screaming claiming that another BIGGER wave was coming ! This lasted for 2 days !

I think the main thing is that lessons have been learned and methods are put into place to protect people should it ever happen again.

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

Can you enlighten me what you would've done if you were in charge?

Yes delighted. The following is what I would expect my Meterological Department and its tsunami experts (all of which exists - paid for by my taxes ) to do:-

1) Make a nationwide broadcast urging everyone at the coastline of Thailand to leave beach areas or get on the roof of your house. (Uninterrupted katoey gameshows on television all morning)

2) A mass SMS to all Thai mobile numbers (hey I get all sorts of crud from Orange when they want to sell something)

3) Telex warnings to all hotels. (which should just be a matter of pressing the 'send' button on pre-arranged contact lists).

After the tsunami hit - ok Krabi and Phuket are gonners - but, I know the wave is slamming the shore further South and I would expect army to be up at Ranong physically forcing people back from the coast.

Here is a list of what actually happened.....

1) "We didn't do ANYTHING because we didn't want to upset tourism"

2)....um . sorry that all.

If they'd just done something -even very little - and it hadn't worked, then that's a defence - and fair dinkum, they deserve to be exonerated - but they did absolutely nothing - and yet there was this Tsunami department, so its mere presence means people had thought about the scenario beforehand.

I think they've got a real fight on their hands

Let the Courts decide. "TIT" ('This is Thailand'), is no legal defence - and if they try that they will LOSE.

Edited February 17, 2005 by The_Eye_Of_Sauron

[ray23]

American politics discussions -->> Please continue at http://www.bearpit.net

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your right enough off to the bear pit

[meemiathai]

I would have totally agreed with you if a system was there already stating all the procedures to be carried out in case of an earthquake under the sea within a certain distance. But was there anything like that? It would have been a very difficult situation for the persons in charge to make a decision without the knowledge of judging HOW LIKELY a tsunami would really be on its way.

1) "We didn't do ANYTHING because we didn't want to upset tourism"

Sorry, I think it should be " We didn't do ANYTHING because we didn't know what was going to happen"