ที่

[Jack Jones]

I'm working through my intermediate Thai book and currently learning the different uses of ที่.

I understand the seperate uses:

1, At place, at space

2, As a classifier

3, As another word for land

4, That, who, which

However, there is an example sentence in one of the conversations where ที่ is used in the context set out below. Can somebody explain if ที่ is used for the word 'the' also? ie. the poor....

มีคนจนที่ไม่ได้ไปโรงเรียนอีกมาก

Thanks in advance

Ps. Apologies I put nii in the title instead of tii

Edit RDN: Title corrected

Edited February 21, 2005 by RDN

[PvtDick]

It's the "that" meaning in your example sentence.

[RDN]

I would say it means "who" here: "There are poor people who cannot go to school any more".

[meadish_sweetball]

I'm working through my intermediate Thai book and currently learning the different uses of ที่.

I understand the seperate uses:

1, At place, at space

2, As a classifier

3, As another word for land

4, That, who, which

However, there is an example sentence in one of the conversations where ที่ is used in the context set out below. Can somebody explain if ที่ is used for the word 'the' also? ie. the poor....

มีคนจนที่ไม่ได้ไปโรงเรียนอีกมาก

Thanks in advance

Ps. Apologies I put nii in the title instead of tii

Edit RDN: Title corrected 

Ok, let's do a simple analysis of your sentence. First of all, definite / indefinite article (the absence/use of "the" before noun phrases) is an optional feature in Thai, not obligatory as in English and many other languages. This is why Thais often have a problem knowing when to use the definite article and not in English.

มีคนจนที่ไม่ได้ไปโรงเรียนอีกมาก

mii khon jon thii mai dai pai roongrian iik maak

mii = to have, to be

khon = person

jon = poor

thii = relative pronoun (who, that, which)

mai = negation particle (no, not)

dai = get, obtain

pai = to go

roongrian = school

iik = another, further, more

maak = much, many

have person poor who no get go school more many

There are many more poor people who do not go to school.

Some grammatical rules you can derive from this sentence:

1. Thai puts the descriptive word (adjective, stative verb) after the noun as in "khon jon" - "person poor" NOT "poor person".

2. Thai has no "dummy subject" like "it" and "there" in English. "There is" and "There are" are expressed with a simple "mii".

3. It is not obligatory to use the distinction plural/singular in Thai. "Khon" means both "person" and "persons"/"people", and the proper translation into English has to be derived from the context.

4. Note that "mai dai" does not mean "can not" in this sentence. When "mai dai" is put in front of the main verb and not after, it can either mean

a.) the same thing as just "mai" "no, not, don't"

b.) past tense negative "did not"

Cheers,

meadish

Edited February 21, 2005 by meadish_sweetball

[bina]

thanx for the breakdown meadish; it helps me learn to speak more gramatically correct sentences rather than just baby thai.... and i was able to pick out each word separately (after seeing the transliteration to clue me in but its a great method)....

[Jack Jones]

RDN - cheers for editing the title.

Meadish - thanks, that's a great breakdown. The English translation is exactly what I have in the book.

I now have a better understanding of the use of mii and mai dai as a result (and my question was about tii).