Road Rage!

[mr_hippo]

I was driving towards Onnut from central Bangkok and had to stop at the lights, loads of bikes came around and stopped in front of my car like normal and when the lights turned red everyone rode or drove off as usual, but one bike stayed in the outside lane, the same one as me. So I politely followed him until I realized he was just going to stay there, then I flashed him, he did not see so I flashed again and he still did not see so I gave the tiniest beep of the horn so not to startle him but let him know I was there and he looked around but stayed there. Now there was plenty of room for him to move over to the other lane with the other bikes but he did not want to. He just stayed in the outside lane braking and swerving to annoy me. So I waited and stayed behind him until there was a gap in the other lane and drove around him, but the guy then sped up to try and keep me in that lane, so then I got very and just turned into the lane, regardless of where he was. Very stupid I know but luckily for the pair of us he must off guessed what I was going to do and came around the back of my car and then sped off after giving me the finger. As soon as he went, I drove very calmly again as if nothing was wrong.

Wow!!! I am shocked that a motor bike would not move over for you but why should he? He has the same rights as you on the road and you in your 2 ton steel cage want to intimidate him and to what end? Just to save a few micro-seconds? Then to make matters worse, you want to use your car as a deadly weapon!

What suggestion can I make to you? Sell the car and use public transport and taxis.

In the hotter months, I restrict my cycling to about 50kms/day; my usual route includes Kasert-Nawamin Road, Nawamin Road, Ram Intra and Seri Thai Road. Yes, other vehicles get too close, cut me up and beep their horns, do I get annoyed? No because it serves no purpose.

[onnut]

Wow!!! I am shocked that a motor bike would not move over for you but why should he? He has the same rights as you on the road and you in your 2 ton steel cage want to intimidate him and to what end? Just to save a few micro-seconds? Then to make matters worse, you want to use your car as a deadly weapon!

What suggestion can I make to you? Sell the car and use public transport and taxis.

In the hotter months, I restrict my cycling to about 50kms/day; my usual route includes Kasert-Nawamin Road, Nawamin Road, Ram Intra and Seri Thai Road. Yes, other vehicles get too close, cut me up and beep their horns, do I get annoyed? No because it serves no purpose.

not a problem that he did not want to move over, if he wants to stay in the outside lane to do a u-turn or turn right. but he was going slow and i let him know I would like to come through politely. he started putting his brakes on and swerving in front of my car to stop me from moving forward. that is why I got road rage. not because he was in the way. the arsehol_e ended up turning left anyway, so he was only trying to pi-s me off all along.

and good for you for keeping your cool when cars beep there horns and cut you up.

Edited August 7, 2009 by onnut

[Big Guns]

I am pretty sure that there is no give way to the left rule. You must give way to the right. On roundabouts you should give way to the right. If you are on the roundabout you have right of way. My Thai wife did a bit or research and found this was right. However, the problem is that 99% of Thai drivers don't know this, plus the fact that many mtorcycle drivers don't even have a licence.

The key to driving in Thailand is expect the person in front or behind you to do the stupidest thing possible as they probably will. Blowing your horn of giving the 'v' sign can just lead to a whole world of trouble.

I honestly wonder what the repsonse of the motorcyclist with no lights on driving the wrong way down the street would be, if they were asked the question, 'Why did you just do that?'

[LIH2BKK]

... but one bike stayed in the outside lane, the same one as me. So I politely followed him until I realized he was just going to stay there, then I flashed him, he did not see so I flashed again and he still did not see so I gave the tiniest beep of the horn so not to startle him but let him know I was there and he looked around but stayed there. Now there was plenty of room for him to move over to the other lane with the other bikes but he did not want to.

Is there a "law" that says someone (for example: YOU) has more rights to a given lane than someone else (for example: a motorcyclist)? If it were simply another car that was going slower than what YOU felt was reasonable, would you have reacted the same way?

To my mom, I drive too fast, ie. 120 kph in the fast lane of the expressway, and I get annoyed when I have to follow someone going slower than that. But do I tail them, flash them, and eventually give them "the tiniest beep of the horn so not to startle them"? Absolutely not! Just because I believe 120 kph is reasonable, I must accept that other people may not think so -- and they certainly have the RIGHT to think that way. They have the RIGHT to go only as fast as they feel is reasonably safe. If they don't feel 120 kph is safe, then they have the right go slower (particularly when the so-called speed limit is 80 kph), and there's NOTHING I can do about it.

He just stayed in the outside lane braking and swerving to annoy me...

That was in retaliation for YOU annoying HIM. In his mind, he was probably thinking that he was doing NOTHING wrong and this impatient, self-centered a**hole was trying to run him off the road.

Of all the situations where "mai bpen rai" is applied, driving is probably the most appropriate one since perceptions vary immensely on what constitutes safe (too slow) vs unsafe (too fast), defensive vs offensive, and courteous vs selfish driving.

[frenchFARANGbkk]

I met many Thai who are so nice and so KRIENG JAI in life, never being able to say fuxx to anyone or tell to someone that he suxx when he suxx, but it seems that they revenge when they are being the wheel...

As I don't want to become like them I just keep saying f&s to whom deserve it and drive very slowly and carefully on Thai roads !

[Brigante7]

... but one bike stayed in the outside lane, the same one as me. So I politely followed him until I realized he was just going to stay there, then I flashed him, he did not see so I flashed again and he still did not see so I gave the tiniest beep of the horn so not to startle him but let him know I was there and he looked around but stayed there. Now there was plenty of room for him to move over to the other lane with the other bikes but he did not want to.

Is there a "law" that says someone (for example: YOU) has more rights to a given lane than someone else (for example: a motorcyclist)? If it were simply another car that was going slower than what YOU felt was reasonable, would you have reacted the same way?

To my mom, I drive too fast, ie. 120 kph in the fast lane of the expressway, and I get annoyed when I have to follow someone going slower than that. But do I tail them, flash them, and eventually give them "the tiniest beep of the horn so not to startle them"? Absolutely not! Just because I believe 120 kph is reasonable, I must accept that other people may not think so -- and they certainly have the RIGHT to think that way. They have the RIGHT to go only as fast as they feel is reasonably safe. If they don't feel 120 kph is safe, then they have the right go slower (particularly when the so-called speed limit is 80 kph), and there's NOTHING I can do about it.

He just stayed in the outside lane braking and swerving to annoy me...

That was in retaliation for YOU annoying HIM. In his mind, he was probably thinking that he was doing NOTHING wrong and this impatient, self-centered a**hole was trying to run him off the road.

Of all the situations where "mai bpen rai" is applied, driving is probably the most appropriate one since perceptions vary immensely on what constitutes safe (too slow) vs unsafe (too fast), defensive vs offensive, and courteous vs selfish driving.

I think the law is that you should stay in the left hand lane unless you are overtaking, so if somebody feels that 80KPH is safe for them as opposed to 120KPH for you then they should be in lane 1 and allow people who are more confident to press on, that's why the signs tell you to pull in after overtaking. It's the idiots who insist on sitting in the overtaking lane at 80KPH that cause's frustration which then leads to road rage

Brigante7.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Brigante7

[khunhappy]

... but one bike stayed in the outside lane, the same one as me. So I politely followed him until I realized he was just going to stay there, then I flashed him, he did not see so I flashed again and he still did not see so I gave the tiniest beep of the horn so not to startle him but let him know I was there and he looked around but stayed there. Now there was plenty of room for him to move over to the other lane with the other bikes but he did not want to.

Is there a "law" that says someone (for example: YOU) has more rights to a given lane than someone else (for example: a motorcyclist)? If it were simply another car that was going slower than what YOU felt was reasonable, would you have reacted the same way?

To my mom, I drive too fast, ie. 120 kph in the fast lane of the expressway, and I get annoyed when I have to follow someone going slower than that. But do I tail them, flash them, and eventually give them "the tiniest beep of the horn so not to startle them"? Absolutely not! Just because I believe 120 kph is reasonable, I must accept that other people may not think so -- and they certainly have the RIGHT to think that way. They have the RIGHT to go only as fast as they feel is reasonably safe. If they don't feel 120 kph is safe, then they have the right go slower (particularly when the so-called speed limit is 80 kph), and there's NOTHING I can do about it.

He just stayed in the outside lane braking and swerving to annoy me...

That was in retaliation for YOU annoying HIM. In his mind, he was probably thinking that he was doing NOTHING wrong and this impatient, self-centered a**hole was trying to run him off the road.

Of all the situations where "mai bpen rai" is applied, driving is probably the most appropriate one since perceptions vary immensely on what constitutes safe (too slow) vs unsafe (too fast), defensive vs offensive, and courteous vs selfish driving.

I think the law is that you should stay in the left hand lane unless you are overtaking, so if somebody feels that 80KPH is safe for them as opposed to 120KPH for you then they should be in lane 1 and allow people who are more confident to press on, that's why the signs tell you to pull in after overtaking. It's the idiots who insist on sitting in the overtaking lane at 80KPH that cause's frustration which then leads to road rage

Brigante7.

[khunhappy]

... but one bike stayed in the outside lane, the same one as me. So I politely followed him until I realized he was just going to stay there, then I flashed him, he did not see so I flashed again and he still did not see so I gave the tiniest beep of the horn so not to startle him but let him know I was there and he looked around but stayed there. Now there was plenty of room for him to move over to the other lane with the other bikes but he did not want to.

Is there a "law" that says someone (for example: YOU) has more rights to a given lane than someone else (for example: a motorcyclist)? If it were simply another car that was going slower than what YOU felt was reasonable, would you have reacted the same way?

To my mom, I drive too fast, ie. 120 kph in the fast lane of the expressway, and I get annoyed when I have to follow someone going slower than that. But do I tail them, flash them, and eventually give them "the tiniest beep of the horn so not to startle them"? Absolutely not! Just because I believe 120 kph is reasonable, I must accept that other people may not think so -- and they certainly have the RIGHT to think that way. They have the RIGHT to go only as fast as they feel is reasonably safe. If they don't feel 120 kph is safe, then they have the right go slower (particularly when the so-called speed limit is 80 kph), and there's NOTHING I can do about it.

He just stayed in the outside lane braking and swerving to annoy me...

That was in retaliation for YOU annoying HIM. In his mind, he was probably thinking that he was doing NOTHING wrong and this impatient, self-centered a**hole was trying to run him off the road.

Of all the situations where "mai bpen rai" is applied, driving is probably the most appropriate one since perceptions vary immensely on what constitutes safe (too slow) vs unsafe (too fast), defensive vs offensive, and courteous vs selfish driving.

I think the law is that you should stay in the left hand lane unless you are overtaking, so if somebody feels that 80KPH is safe for them as opposed to 120KPH for you then they should be in lane 1 and allow people who are more confident to press on, that's why the signs tell you to pull in after overtaking. It's the idiots who insist on sitting in the overtaking lane at 80KPH that cause's frustration which then leads to road rage

Brigante7.

[Valentine]

One night in Phuket, roads were still very busy, I was behind a black sedan that attempted to run down a motorbike, twice. Having failed, the motorbike tried to pass him to get away from this dangerous situation but as he did so a couple of shots were fired at him. The motorbike eventually got past & made a left turn at the next intersection but the sedan also turned left in the hope of catching him.

Although I have no idea what precipitated the above situation my point is this, there are a lot of handguns in this country & I am sure many are carried around in cars & the mindset, which is prone to snap on occasion, can lead to disasterous results especially if a loaded weapon is at hand.

[gmac]

... but one bike stayed in the outside lane, the same one as me. So I politely followed him until I realized he was just going to stay there, then I flashed him, he did not see so I flashed again and he still did not see so I gave the tiniest beep of the horn so not to startle him but let him know I was there and he looked around but stayed there. Now there was plenty of room for him to move over to the other lane with the other bikes but he did not want to.

Is there a "law" that says someone (for example: YOU) has more rights to a given lane than someone else (for example: a motorcyclist)? If it were simply another car that was going slower than what YOU felt was reasonable, would you have reacted the same way?

To my mom, I drive too fast, ie. 120 kph in the fast lane of the expressway, and I get annoyed when I have to follow someone going slower than that. But do I tail them, flash them, and eventually give them "the tiniest beep of the horn so not to startle them"? Absolutely not! Just because I believe 120 kph is reasonable, I must accept that other people may not think so -- and they certainly have the RIGHT to think that way. They have the RIGHT to go only as fast as they feel is reasonably safe. If they don't feel 120 kph is safe, then they have the right go slower (particularly when the so-called speed limit is 80 kph), and there's NOTHING I can do about it.

He just stayed in the outside lane braking and swerving to annoy me...

That was in retaliation for YOU annoying HIM. In his mind, he was probably thinking that he was doing NOTHING wrong and this impatient, self-centered a**hole was trying to run him off the road.

Of all the situations where "mai bpen rai" is applied, driving is probably the most appropriate one since perceptions vary immensely on what constitutes safe (too slow) vs unsafe (too fast), defensive vs offensive, and courteous vs selfish driving.

Now I understand why people sit and drive slowly in they fast lane. They just don't know any better! For normal road users, in left hand drive countries, the left lane is for driving normally and the right for overtaking. Judging by your reply you would feel quite happy driving at a snails pace in the "overtaking" lane just because, in your mind, you have as much right to it as anyone else. No wonder we have road rage!

[sangfroid]

Many of those police boxes at the intersections in Bangkok have signs fixed to the wall outside. They say.

วินัยจราจรสะท้อนวินัยชาติ

Traffic discipline reflects the discipline of the nation

[Fore Man]

Like an earlier poster, I live in Chiang Mai too, and although I have only experienced road rage once (him, not me), it scared me into a revised way of thinking and driving.

I was motoring along on the airport freeway, a divided four lane highway with limited access. My speed was around 90 kph and I was in the inside lane...there was traffic immediately ahead and also next to me in the adjacent lane. A chap in a beat-up rice rocket tried to force his way around me, but there was no room to do so; whereupon he decided to tailgate me...and I mean the distance involved could be measured in a handful of centimeters. I gradually slowed down, signalled to turn left, found an opening inthe outside lane, and exited off the freeway to go to my destination, which was the Airport Central Plaza shopping mall.

This taligater then dangerously cut across from his inside lane to follow me. When we were stopped, waiting for a red light at a main intersection, this man got out his car, which was by then a few vehicles behind me, stalked up to my driver's side door, and started shouting at me. I have heavily tinted windows and I don't think he could see my farang face. When I declined to lower the window, he slammed both open palms into my window glass as hard as he could and stalked off to his car. I am a military combat veteran of three overseas conflicts and this indeed shook me up. Thank the Lord this testosterone-fired idiot didn't have a gun...or equally so, that I didn't either, as I might have used it. My genteel retirement in Thailand might have been prematurely ended had either of us been armed.

My wife (who was not with me at the time) told me later that there are definitely young hotheads out there who become totally enraged if you impede their progress or inconvenience them on the roads. She explained that driving in Thailand is a system of merging and cooperating, and not governed by the black and white right-of-way rules of the road in the West. She also said that Thailand operates on a ME FIRST asumption in the minds of most drivers...especially men of all ages, who simply will do any trick, regardless of how stupid or life-threatening it may be, to get ahead of you.

Subsequent to that incident, I became a lot less arrogant and quit asuming that "I have the right to this lane and my position in it" and began letting overtaking vehicles get around me. I do this as soon as it is safe to do so.

Better be safe and not bound up in the Thai legal system if you are involved in a road incident that was sparked by rage. Better yet? It's a whole lot better to keep your car dent-free and to be healthy and alive when you return home after your excursion!

[Honolulu]

The challenge for the experienced and intelligent driver is to stay out of the way of the stupid and reckless ones.

I always remember driving once from Phatthalung to Phuket and being passed by two idiots, outside of Krabi, obviously driving too fast for conditions. Less than 10 minutes later I came across them both, flipped over, upside down, off the road and in a ditch in the rain! No one appeared to be hurt and I saw several people on their cell phones, so there was no need for me to stop. Give them enough rope and they will eventually hang themselves!

[westie_7]

I've been living in thailand now for over 4 years, I am from the UK, where road rage is common place and I believe its much worse since I have left!, even the old grannies are giving it everything they got these days I hear!

Now we expect other road users/drivers generally at all times to be considerate and aware of other road users at all times and so we should, after all if we were all considering each other, it would make the experience much safer, less congested and more free flowing place to be.

I consider myself like most others to be a good road user (but really I am) some who reckon they are are clearly not! you know deep down if you are one of them, ask yourself, are you the one being hooted at or the one that is doing the hooting?.

When I first arrived in Thailand, having been used to driving in other countries, mostly across Europe, Germany being the worst for me. i could quickly become accustomed to the Driving Style in Thailand and it worked for me.

I used to do a lot of driving throughout Europe for work and pleasure. I found initially Thai drivers to be pretty calm not too crazy, other than the things they tend to pack onto their vehicles or the conditions of their transport, but generally, road rage was not very common place.

Now as i said I've been living here for over 4 years, In the Chonburi Pattaya area mostly where i drive everyday with frequent trips to bangkok and near out areas, the traffic levels seemed to have tripled, and sadly road rage is very common place especially in the Chonburi Pattaya area., Its usually a Thai male in either a car/pickup or motorcycle but the worst offenders are Fortuner drivers, they seem to think they have total "VIP" status on the road and can go anywhere at any time when every they feel like it. the typical big vehicle syndrome is more important than the smaller less powerful one.

For example he makes a turn either to he left or right, or stops without even checking his mirrors, and your forced to take evasive action, and you look at him when passing or give him a toot on your horn not much, just a small toot, just to show him you where actually there and he perhaps did not see you, sort of demonstrating to him for next time, perhaps he should check his mirrors before carrying out his maneuver, But christ almighty, its as if you have pledged holy war on him, if you were to continue your communications with him. your be surely involved in real road rage. perhaps with gun fire at hand. you never know so be careful!

Now i have had many situations on the road, some really truly unbelievable. like this one for example.

I once was parking my pickup last year and a thai driver in a toyota car attempted to park his car while on the phone, now i had to take evasive action while i was parking in order not to be crashed into ( i was actually parking before he was event there), he was not aware of me as he was holding his mobile while revering, now i parked up i watched this chap make two or three attempts to reverse into a parking space even my 11 year old son could park into first time, without success, so i hopped out of my pickup against my thai partners advice!, went on over to the passenger side of his car, went to open up his door, to speak to him, blimey!!!, what was i thinking, this thai chap, leaped out from his car, still not parked, came screaming round to have a go at me, my thai partner still in the pickup saw the whole thing, now im not a big guy but i like to think I can look after myself if needs be, he approached me, but realized i think, perhaps i was maybe a bit too big for him to take on alone, so just resorted to shouting at me, a lot! no idea what he was saying really at the time, i just said to him i was just going to advice you, you very nearly hit my pickup, and your trying to reverse park while still on the mobile phone, try driving without using your phone and look for others. that way you can avoid crashes, his reply was simple! i have money, i can pay! go figure! he then threatened apparently when leaving the scene, he wanted to bomb me, charming, i was only trying to help!

Now my theory of road rage exists due to individuals being restrained/repressed wana be managers or bosses! either at work or at home in some way, this feeling builds up and is released when man gets into his personal space, usually the love of his automobile which gives a total false sense of security and freedom. he then becomes a total A'hole to other road users in order to vent himself and exercise his right of freedom!. some girls are also suffering this, but mostly males.

The overall cause I think is, we have so much more demands on us as individuals either through work, home or both, not enough time to do it all, and need to get places fast! so mix it all up, it then results in a unbalanced person sharing the same road space as us and driving something not necessarily will get him where he wants to go quickly enough, either its too big not powerful enough or his driving skills are so bad and can not deal with what s around him.

now, people that would normally suffer this, if put into vehicles which do not give them the false sense of security that larger more powerful vehicles might just might be a little bit more pleasant around others on the road. nobody or very few are brave enough to have a go at others face to face. But the percentage goes through the roof when cocooned inside a larger or more powerful vehicle. the larger the more powerful the worse usually.

one last most important point to raise is, us farangs have no rights on the road what so ever, unless its up against other farangs, I recently experienced my first accident in thailand, non fault. a motorbike with no brakes when into the side of my bike on a junction, he was traveling well over the safe speed limit of the area, a young thai kid with his sister on the back, no license no insurance no anything, i ended up calling the police as i was not getting anywhere dealing with him, as he wanted me to pay for his bike and the pickup he crashed into, i was actually ok and very little damage to my bike, as i took evasive action quickly when i saw him, but as i was totally not at fault, i kept my cool and just waited for him to see sense, but this was not appearing, so called the police, this was a big mistake! ill know better next time! when they arrived, they did not want to speak to me just wanted my license and to take my bike away!, i spent a further 3 days trying to resolve all this peacefully, but ended up being fined for dangerous driving??? yea right!, paying for the repair of the pickup up i never hit, the driver of the pickup also agreed the thai young lad was at total fault! but thanked me for the money and said sorry! and the family of the young thai boy were demanding money for medical treatment, but did finally drop the claim for money for the bike he wrote off!, go figure!

now i was lucky i reckon, friends have told me if the kid had died, i wound have most certainly ended up being chucked into jail with large bail money being sort!.

So you see fellow farangs, just be careful out there when your using the road, do not get into road rage situation with other users particularly Thai's as your most certainly loss, unless your prepared to take the risk.but it may catch up with you.

just try and pre-empt every common situation and steer around it. no or very little point in trying to prove your right. it will not get you anywhere, and perhaps further delay you in getting where you want to be, i just use the road trying not to tread on anyone else's toes and look at everything as an obstacle or waiting to hit me, so far this has kept me out of harms way, although i had my first accident last week, but even my personal rule of road use, still managed to save my bacon from that in the end, if i had;nt rechecked the flow of traffic for the third time while crossing the junction, i would have probably had broke legs right now!

stay out of trouble. and remember farangs are wrong, even if we are not! remember road rage, can be avoided. it takes two to tango!

happy motoring....

[StatlerandWaldorf]

Personally I love the people who immediately pull into the outside lane on a 3 lane road and drive at 60KPH.

I recently had a trip to Hua Hin and on the return journey I made the best progress in the left hand lane as most Thai's simply will not use it.

[DonGato]

I am talking about anyone really, but I have seen Thais kick off when another car has got in the way. my post though was more about how do you guys control yourselves while driving in Thailand when there is an idiot pulling stunts in front of you on the roads. everyone gets angry in different ways, some more than others. do you do anything to help keep you calm? or have any other tricks?

Man... you are in Thailand and that's all you need to know to hold and calm down... just remember where is it that you are and how you could never win -even when you be right- in this country.

Even if a guy jumps in front of your car, you'll be called guilty anyhow!

I drive long distances all the time as I visit National Parks and remote destinations as part of my nature (birds) photography and always tell myself before going out... where I am and what would happen to me and my family if I loose my head with some drivers here that my baby could beat on the road, or the others -even worst- that we call the "Wonder Captains of the Road"... those crazy guys believing that doing the most dangerous, careless and stupid actions in high speed it's so cool...

Three years ago, we used to get mad in Sukhumvit and make faces, flash, horn and even compete -becoming part of the problem- for a spot... today, we laugh and keep record of which one does the most stupid-obvious annoying thing on the road in front of the police...

After all... what else could one do?

[Thunder26]

It's not always about retaliating, it can be about standing your ground if you are in the right, I.E. somebody is trying to force their way in to your lane, why should you let them in, let them wait. The most annoying is when you are on a motorway and a lane is closing ahead and there is always an idiot who wants to race along in the lane that is closing and then try to force their way in.

Brigante7.

I see that stuff happening everyday while I'm driving. Those idiots hurry like someone is giving birth in their cars. I just chuckle and wish good luck in the busy traffic

[Valentine]

It is funny one of the posters mentioned Fortuner drivers as here in Phuket I find then to be some of the rudest & aggressive as it seems like the are having a competition with the mini bus drivers.