Communication Issues

[mssabai]

Me and Mr sabai just had a pleasant morning row about something really pathetic. It was all to do with bikes and him taking me to work, and basically him having a conversation with his mum that he didn't tell me about. It was really small, but my opinion was that if he had explained to me what was going on at the time we could have worked out a solution, instead he just came up with his own idea, which I thought was wrong, and we had no time to resolve it, so we both got annoyed and had a fight (which I really hate doing before 9am!).

This is one of the main reasons we fight actually, and I want to see how many other relationships have this this problem, and whether it is usually the man or the woman that complains of it. The problem is that he does not mean to piss me off, he just doesn't think to tell me about something, not realising that I have already got my own plans. So then when I get annoyed, he too gets anoyed thinking I am overreacting, when my point is that if he had told me what was going on in the first place, and not just gone ahead and made his own plan, then I wouldn't have got annoyed. Does that make any sense?

Am I overreacting? Am I being a control freak? Is it part of him being a man, that he needs to make these decisions without me? Can he just not see that I wouldn't get annoyed if he had just opened his mouth in the first place? I think when I try and talk to him about it, he feels like I am not letting him make any decisions on his own...but this is not what I mean. I just want to avoid arguing about petty things, and instead discuss them beforehand to avoid an argument.

[GrahamF]

What was the argument about? What is "pathetic" to you, might not be to your husband. Bikes, taking you to work, and talking to his Mum don't cover it.

[mssabai]

I didn't want to go into detail as it really is that boring, but OK. We have 3 bikes - a broken red bike, a noisy very big bike and a regular honda wave. M-I-L took the honda wave to take grandma to hospital (to see a friend I might add, not because she was deathly ill). Mr Sabai presumed that he would take me to work on the big bike. I mentioned that this is not possible as I have to wear a skirt to work and therefore have to sit side saddle. I am guessing you have never tried sitting side saddle on a chopper. It aint easy. And my school is not the kind of school I can turn up on a 1500cc bike with my skirt around my ears. I have also been told many times that the red bike is a death trap and as it is 30 minutes to school on very busy roads, I was also not keen on doing this but was left with no choice, so was quite peed off. This in turn made Mr Sabai peed off.

My argument was that if he had told me about his mum needing the honda wave earlier, then I could have got the school bus to work, and we could have all got on with our day in a much better mood. But he didn't tell me at the time he waited until the time we had to leave and we had no other options left. See how boring it was? But my point is that if he had just discussed the plan with me earlier all this would have been avoided. And this is not an isolated incident either. My issue is not with Grandma going to hospital, or MIL taking the bike, but just the lack of communication.

[bina]

pre empt. night before, remind him that u are taking the wave, have plans to do whatever, going shopping, -- its just men. to him he didnt consider that its even a problem, after all, tons of thai women go to work every day side saddle so why should it bother u? he's doing his husbandly duty of taking u, thats what counts (from his point of view anyway)...

have same arguement about food: on saturdays (our one day of non work) i always leave some cake/cookies/pizza/ whatever aside for evening, later in day, for son coming back from army, et al. if i dont put it aside and mark it, husband will just chow down without thinking that someone else will want it and he wont ask. its there, he's hungry, so he eats. we can always buy/make more or different. but thats not the point with me. i was raised that u eat a small piece of cake/ leave some slices over, so that others can have also. he was raised that if there is food, u eat until u are full. not too be possessive of it. happens every weekend so now i just put some aside, mark it with son/duaghter's name, and he can eat what he wants of whatever else.

same as laundry. i sort everything out by colour type work/non work. he just shoves it all in, dark or lite and then proceeds to ruin stuff. so i pre empt. all my stuff and kids' school stuff and army stuff i throw in one basket. his stuff, he can do what he likes.

stuff that is a big deal for me isnt for him. and vice versa im sure. but i am more verbal so i do tell him ahead of time about things. not always enoudh that he can argue against it ) like we are going in two hours on a hike. if i tell him ahead of time, he will find ways of getting out of it. two hours in advance means he's stuck doing it.

i see the same symptoms in my son....... and he's definately not thai.

husband has learned not to promise to friends that we will drive up north and pick up several friends along the way, w/o asking me if i work that saturday, and if i have a car. he's learned the phrase : ' taam mia gon' (ask the wife first) very well after several fiascos involving him telling me, while en route, btw, we have to go to village x village y and village c to get people/stuff, and they are all in different directions, and difficult to locate following thai directions. if i d had the time and knew in advance, i could have consulted a map. these saturdays end up with him telling his friends that i am jai ron (which im not) because i would arrive at final destination absolutely fuming and snarling. some behavior modification tactics (positive reinforcement on telling me while at home, and negative being, oops, no exits to those villages theyll have to find a taxi sorry) and voila, he lets me know ahead of time.

good luck

bina

israel

[KevinBloodyWilson]

Me and Mr sabai just had a pleasant morning row about something really pathetic. It was all to do with bikes and him taking me to work, and basically him having a conversation with his mum that he didn't tell me about. It was really small, but my opinion was that if he had explained to me what was going on at the time we could have worked out a solution, instead he just came up with his own idea, which I thought was wrong, and we had no time to resolve it, so we both got annoyed and had a fight (which I really hate doing before 9am!).

This is one of the main reasons we fight actually, and I want to see how many other relationships have this this problem, and whether it is usually the man or the woman that complains of it. The problem is that he does not mean to piss me off, he just doesn't think to tell me about something, not realising that I have already got my own plans. So then when I get annoyed, he too gets anoyed thinking I am overreacting, when my point is that if he had told me what was going on in the first place, and not just gone ahead and made his own plan, then I wouldn't have got annoyed. Does that make any sense?

Am I overreacting? Am I being a control freak? Is it part of him being a man, that he needs to make these decisions without me? Can he just not see that I wouldn't get annoyed if he had just opened his mouth in the first place? I think when I try and talk to him about it, he feels like I am not letting him make any decisions on his own...but this is not what I mean. I just want to avoid arguing about petty things, and instead discuss them beforehand to avoid an argument.

I have found that a lot of Thais make more assumptions than westerners. They assume you know what they know, think what they think and see what they see. This explains the driving and the failure to inform among other things. Of course sometimes it is just that they don't think, or they assume it isn't important and therefore don't bother. No point explaining, they have some rather large blind spots. Being told they are wrong is probably the biggest one - doesn't compute at all.

Edited September 23, 2009 by KevinBloodyWilson

[sbk]

man stuff, IMO

Seen my Thai hubby do it, seen my American father do it, seen my sister's american boyfriend do it, seen my ex-American boyfriends do it.

Heard women of various nationalities complain about it too.

Man stuff.

[sunspun]

hmmmm....I've NEVER had that problem with my husband.

[eek]

lol lucky sunspun

I think it is a man thing as SBK says, but i think maybe Thai men respond differently? Then again, i only have experience of one Thai man..so i am not sure. With a western guy i would tell him openly what bugged me..but i found that that approached fell on deaf ears and brought up a brick wall with my bf here. If my bf says he will meet me or do xyz and if its a biggy, I just sort of ignore him. Horrible i know..but i realised after i complained about it verbally the first few times, i met a brick wall. So, i had to do the childish apathetic and/or silent treatment. Then, my message was read loud and clear, that i had a problem with it. Ie: He makes promise/plan..but forgets.. I will respond with a "cant be bothered/dont care attitude". Then he isnt getting any attention and doesnt like that and then he is like "whats the problem"..then i can calmly say "i dont like that you said/did xyz"..da da da. He realises that it affected me enough to withdraw from him so takes it on board ...sometimes..

Anyway..stuff like that bugs me too mssabai. Bina seems to have it sorted, but uhhh "pre empting" seems like such hard work. Looks like we often have to be on our toes! *sigh!*

[mssabai]

I am thinking of doarising my pre-empts. Maybe a phone alarm " remember to tell Mr Sabai that we are going on holiday next week", "remember to tell Mr Sabai that I need the bike tomorrow" "remember to tell Mr Sabai to brush his teeth". I think this is what as known as nagging isn't it? And they ask us why we nag!

[H2oDunc]

Fom a mans point of view

Ma needs the wave. Ma gets the wave No problem as I have the big bike

Missus can't ride bike in her work skirt. No problem she can just throw on a pair of jeans till she gets to school then put her skirt back on

The big bike is a death trap? So people may say but it is his death trap and it is only a death trap if you -------------

A go over 147.5 KMP

B corner too fast around bumpy left handed adverse camber corners

C Accelerate too fast past Somchai in his pick up as it floods the carb and may catch fire etc

D any other possble defect known to man and bike.

Men think differently to women in most things. Not to say we are right all the time just different Women tend to see problems and men see remedies

The secret to a happy relationshi lies in just 2 words

" YES DEAR "

[cathyy]

The secret to a happy relationshi lies in just 2 words

" YES DEAR "

You are so right, H2oDunc! Mr Sabai needs to learn that phrase soon!

[sbk]

Women tend to see problems and men see remedies

dunc, spoken like a true man

I think I would phrase it slightly differently. Women tend to see the problems and men tend to stick their head in the sand and pretend no such problem exists

[submaniac]

Well I have worked out a system with Ms. Submaniac. I am wrong. Constantly and always. No matter what. It has thus worked so far. Ms. Sabai, I think your problem is that you have not properly broken in Mr. Sabai. It seems that he still has a bit of spirit left. You really should just break his will so he is nice and compliant.

[PeaceBlondie]

Six years of living with a Thai man, speaking English. Very little communication. My Texas wife and I communicated constantly. It's cultural.

[mssabai]

ha ha - Submaniac that is soooo true. It's a phrase that has crept into Mr Sabai's vocabulary quite recently "Ohhhh OK, I am sorry....I am wrong again....and you are right of course". if you knew Mr Sabai you would know he has that funny very expressive Thai accent when he seaks English (don't know if it is the south, but I know a few people from the south who do it) so it sounds so funny I usually stop being annoyed!

'Yes dear' definitely needs to be next I think!

[mssabai]

Six years of living with a Thai man, speaking English. Very little communication. My Texas wife and I communicated constantly. It's cultural.

You know what, it is not the amount of communication that is the problem...we actually chat all the time...just not about the RIGHT things!

[IanForbes]

Has anyone thought of taking time to write down a comprehensive list of potential problems? Both parties need to do this, and list both the good things about the partner and the things that "Could" cause problems. Very often it is an accumulation of little things that finally results in an over reaction where words are hurtful instead of beneficial. Nobody wants to look bad in public and saying private things about your partner in public is a sure way of breaking up a relationship.

[bina]

'Yes dear' definitely needs to be next I think!

ja khun nai -- is the proper answer when i complain (dont give the dogs the 70 shekel shrimp we just bought, save the leftovers for tomorrow -- ja khun nai; the garbage smells like plaa raa, it has to go to the dumpster now, not later-- ja khun nai); well, u all get the picture

and for those wondering- usually its me that throws out the garbage and everyone here knows that on the kibbutz its the man's job to throw out the garbage )

bina

israel

[toptuan]

Six years of living with a Thai man, speaking English. Very little communication. My Texas wife and I communicated constantly. It's cultural.

Really? Five years of living with a Thai man & can't shut him up. Five years with an American wife and had one, possibly two, deep conversations.

[WhiteShrek]

Mssabi

Seems to me you have firstly a communication issue, then secondly a few cultural differences/ issues - generally if Thais have an itch they scratch it - if they need something and if its there in the family house they simply take it - most things are simply shared without much thought - the idea of personal possession/personal space etc is not strong for Thai families. I doubt your man even gave it much thought. He probably didn't leave it to the last minute deliberately - just never thought about it in the way you did.

Have to say though, if there are 3 bikes, I'd have a few ground rules as to who took what normally. Then if anything changes I'm with you - I'd expect people to ask the person whose bike you wanted to take.

Very puzzled by the introduction of gender as being a reason by some people. My parents each had their own cars. If either wanted to borrow the others or swap for some reason they simply discussed and agreed. Similar with my brother and his wife - brother has the larger car and sis-in-law smaller - if they want to change they simply discuss and agree. For us we have one car. Mrs Shrek gets it by deault in case she needs it for her and the kids. If I want it I ask beforehand. Simple consideration for others...

Edited October 15, 2009 by WhiteShrek

[WhiteShrek]

As an afterthought: My apologies for applying logic, which is a bit of a male tendency I know. But weren't the two people who caused the problem in the first place actually women If women are supposed to be considerate in these matters, wouldn't they have checked directly with Mssabai first, and even if Mrsabai said no need - as women they would know better and make him do it anyway, pre-empting in the way people described.

The common denominator to me is all 3 were Thai: 2 women and a guy and none of them saw the need to discuss with Mssabai = communication and culture. Another possibility might have been he felt he needed to defer to his mother and grandmother even if it might upset his wife.... that one would have to ask!

So Mssabai don't feel so bad about your husband. Doesn't sound personal - just a trait of the family you've acquired. Good luck and if you need to borrow our car anytime let us know!