Montessori Education Start Up In Chiang Mai

[DanRW]

Hello there,

I thought I'd pick your collective brains about my / our plans to set up a Montessori nursery in Chiang Mai.

Our basic plan is this: private / bilingual school, will rent a house in which to hold the class - plans to build new later, aim to start with a small number of children aged 3 - 4 (under 8 in total) in Jan '10 who will be paying a very small intoductory fee while we put together our application to the local education authority - once license aquired then class size will grow to 20 from August '10 at which point fee will rise to around 120,000THB per year all in.

My partner, who is a qualified Montessori teacher with teaching experience in London, is a Thai national and we have other Westerners on board too. Unique Selling Point is to be found within the *genuine* Montessori child-centred approach (apologies for using a well worn cliche), constant CCTV access for parents via website, the provision of organic food at mealtimes and giving children access to growing vegetables and plants (among other things). I, myself, am a UK national and will be handling the face to face and admin / management side.

Comments, ideas and opinions please. All will be very much appreciated.

Thank you so much.

Dan Walker.

Edited October 3, 2009 by DanRW

[Benjie]

I like the Montessori approach and am looking at moving to Chiang Mai in a few years.

I think its a great idea, I guess location and facilities would be very important and it's quite competitive so it would be interesting to hear what you would be thinking of charging.

Just seen your edit, I'm not sure I would want to be paying 120,000 baht a year for my children to be taught in a house, It seems quite expensive for a start-up school.

Edited October 3, 2009 by Benjie

[DanRW]

I like the Montessori approach and am looking at moving to Chiang Mai in a few years.

I think its a great idea, I guess location and facilities would be very important and it's quite competitive so it would be interesting to hear what you would be thinking of charging.

Just seen your edit, I'm not sure I would want to be paying 120,000 baht a year for my children to be taught in a house, It seems quite expensive for a start-up school.

Hi Benjie,

Thanks for your reply. That's interesting. The fee is actually a ballpark figure at the moment, based on other schools' prices and not wanting to devalue the service too greatly. You probably know this but entry into schools in Thailand carry pretty hefty added costs, such as the application fee, deposit and so on, which can be a full 3rd of the annual tuition fee on top. Our closest competition ranges from 140,000 to 200,000 per year - although most of them are established, it's true. The 120,000THB mentioned includes these added costs anyway. However, our main priority is to make it work for our families so your opinion will be duly logged!

The other point I wanted to make was that in fact, it being situated in a house is actually preferable for a Montessori approach as houses tend to reflect a child's experience of home. It's not meant to be 'home' of course, but the environment should certainly be homely rather than sterile. It might be worth adding that the house will be a 24/7 nursery and will not be a residence in any shape or form. Thai law stipulates that quite clearly.

If we decide to take this house then we will be situated right behind Nakorn Payap International School. We also have some land in Hang Dong but need to build on it.

Thanks again. Dan

Ps. My posts here are not meant to be touting for business by the way!

[Chunkton]

I believe Montessori is very good. Is THB 120,000 per year a reasonable fee? If so it appears you will do very well business wise.

[Shazza]

Sounds like a great idea. Not sure about the price though, my friend sends her foster daughter three days a week to a bilingual preschool and it costs her 3,000 a month...

Our kids were brought up psuedo Mont... as we lived in NZ and they went to Playcentre which is a child centred, activity based, parent run preschool... we were there with our kids but all helped each other. Wonderful institution!

All the best for you endeavour...

[Benjie]

Still seems expensive, there's a lot of competition in Chiang Mai - I was looking at Lanna International which I've heard some very good reports about.

To me it would seem quite a large risk to put your child into a brand new school, with new staff, no track record etc... Over time I'm sure you could charge what you are looking to but personally I'd only look at paying those fees for a proven school with facilities.

[DanRW]

Thanks. It's good to get some informed opinion.

Does anyone have children in a bi-lingual (anglo-thai) nursery? What is the standard of teaching like? And how do you feel about the mix? Have you noticed any *particular* improvement in your child's use of both languages since they started attending?

[PattayaParent]

There's a well established Montessori School in Pattaya with extensive grounds and buildings catering for age groups from nursery to 5 years old which charges around 90k a year for a 4 year old so your fees for a start up with no prior reputation sound a little high.

[DanRW]

There's a well established Montessori School in Pattaya with extensive grounds and buildings catering for age groups from nursery to 5 years old which charges around 90k a year for a 4 year old so your fees for a start up with no prior reputation sound a little high.

Thanks for the tip. Just checked out their website (http://www.geocities.com/mcciptty/). Doesn't give much away unfortunately - the calendar dates are for 2002. Do you know if that 90k includes the application fee, deposit and entrance fee? 90k sounds a bit like a tuition fee.

Dan

[PattayaParent]

I don't remember paying any additional fees over and above the tuition fee at Montessori.

I know a lot of schools cite an enrolment fee on their website, including the school that my child currently attends, but I've never been charged one.

[DanRW]

I don't remember paying any additional fees over and above the tuition fee at Montessori.

I know a lot of schools cite an enrolment fee on their website, including the school that my child currently attends, but I've never been charged one.

Interesting. Thank you. Two further questions, if I may: Were you happy with the Montessori curriculum, and was your child 'fulfilled' by it, would you say? Your views will really help us.

Dan

[PattayaParent]

Yes and Yes to both questions. The daughter really learned a lot there and enjoyed her time there. She still remembers fondly her teachers and talks about them. The location was also a factor in making the kids happy which of course would vary in other schools.

Some of the course materials she had in Montessori we even copied for the new International School as they didn't have anything so simple and effective.

The teachers involved the parents in classes too and there were school activities like Halloween and a Christmas Show and trips out to Underwater Worls and Nong Nooch.

A guy I know has his son at Montessori and the older daughter in the most expensive International School in Pattaya and he reckons the son is getting a better education. So much so that he was to move both of them to another International School in the area and the daughter was not accepted due to her English ability while the boy was accepted.

[Shazza]

Seriously, if kids are under 3 they don't have huge amounts of language anyway... if they are hearing good Thai and good English day by day then I think they will develop well in both - some children are always more vocal, some are very quiet.... my middle child didn't speak much at all until his brother went away to stay at my Mum's place for a week... he went from two or three words per sentence to nine or so IN A WEEK...

I haven't done much reading about bilingual issues, but would imagine that if kids are exposed regularly to both, they will pick up both. My friends two year olds (three live in one compound) speak and understand Thai, English and their own language that they make up between the three of them... I think one knows some Karen as well... none of them go to any type of nursery school, just hang around home...

Good luck with your nursery school. I'm not officially trained in Montessori but have qualifications in elementary school teaching so if you need native English speaking staff later on I may be interested. I do have a bit of a New Zealand accent though, I can make it sound British!!

[Greenside]

Just a couple of points you might want to consider:

Chiang Mai is a very competitive market in education with new schools springing up all the time so even with a good product you'll need plenty of money available for marketing and advertising, not least because there's very little awareness amongst Thais about Montessori and most farangs don't have the budget.

Your fee structure seems way off the mark to me and I think you need to do a lot more research into competing schools. People here are very price sensitive. Check out the fees for the well regarded Varee Chiangmai School Pre-Kindergarten and Kindergarten - prices here.

My ex-wife started a Montessori School in England and I can tell you that the work required on the non-teaching side can be very significant. Dealing with parents who expect to see "results" in return for their hard earned cash, each of whose little darlings is the brightest, most special and gifted angel on the block can be quite wearing and since most don't know what the "results" should look like makes it particularly difficult. Doing this in Thai without offending anyone is a serious challenge!

That said, it was a rewarding enterprise but not much of a business.

Edited October 10, 2009 by Greenside

[DanRW]

Just a couple of points you might want to consider:

Chiang Mai is a very competitive market in education with new schools springing up all the time so even with a good product you'll need plenty of money available for marketing and advertising, not least because there's very little awareness amongst Thais about Montessori and most farangs don't have the budget.

Your fee structure seems way off the mark to me and I think you need to do a lot more research into competing schools. People here are very price sensitive. Check out the fees for the well regarded Varee Chiangmai School Pre-Kindergarten and Kindergarten - prices here.

My ex-wife started a Montessori School in England and I can tell you that the work required on the non-teaching side can be very significant. Dealing with parents who expect to see "results" in return for their hard earned cash, each of whose little darlings is the brightest, most special and gifted angel on the block can be quite wearing and since most don't know what the "results" should look like makes it particularly difficult. Doing this in Thai without offending anyone is a serious challenge!

That said, it was a rewarding enterprise but not much of a business.

Thanks GS, good points.

One thing we haven't been able to do, stuck in London, is conduct market research in situ, and so gain an insight into our target demographic. I'm surprised most westerners don't have the budget we're talking about - but I can see why you might say that. Are expats in CM markedly different to those in Bkk? i.e. Is the move to CM more of a lifestyle choice?

You provide a useful insight into the non-teaching side too. This is a relative unknown to us so it's going to be a steep learning curve. Meeting parents' expectations is obviously important; meeting those of SE Asian parents seems all the more daunting for some reason. The thing parents have to grasp early on is that the Montessori curriculum isn't target-laden like a regular inter/national curriculum. This will certainly cause problems for parents who would expect their children's school to enforce the three r's, rather than let the children cultivate them at their own pace. Giving a 4 year old room to act on their own instincts sounds far fetched but its pretty central to the whole method. We're planning to hold regular workshops for parents so they can learn about the principles at work, so hopefully that will help to mitigate against doubt.

You've given us a lot to chew on anyway. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

D

[DanRW]

Seriously, if kids are under 3 they don't have huge amounts of language anyway... if they are hearing good Thai and good English day by day then I think they will develop well in both - some children are always more vocal, some are very quiet.... my middle child didn't speak much at all until his brother went away to stay at my Mum's place for a week... he went from two or three words per sentence to nine or so IN A WEEK...

I haven't done much reading about bilingual issues, but would imagine that if kids are exposed regularly to both, they will pick up both. My friends two year olds (three live in one compound) speak and understand Thai, English and their own language that they make up between the three of them... I think one knows some Karen as well... none of them go to any type of nursery school, just hang around home...

Good luck with your nursery school. I'm not officially trained in Montessori but have qualifications in elementary school teaching so if you need native English speaking staff later on I may be interested. I do have a bit of a New Zealand accent though, I can make it sound British!!

Agreed: good clear speakers of both. Children can absorb 3 or 4 languages simultaneously in the early years.

Children are the best teachers which is why M uses the mixed age group; the older ones teach the younger ones how to behave and use the materials. Such a powerful device when you have a working child community. We wont be able to have this at the beginning unfortunately.

And keep in touch. We're going to need inspiring people. I thought an American accent is preferable these days. It seems to be the easiest to comprehend. I have a British accent and some of my Thai friends often can't understand a word I say!

[Greenside]

Meeting parents' expectations is obviously important; meeting those of SE Asian parents seems all the more daunting for some reason. The thing parents have to grasp early on is that the Montessori curriculum isn't target-laden like a regular inter/national curriculum. This will certainly cause problems for parents who would expect their children's school to enforce the three r's, rather than let the children cultivate them at their own pace.

D

This is a country where many parents regard western educational methods as likely to compromise their children's "Thainess" and so qualities such as respect and obedience are often valued above creative thinking and a questioning approach which we regard as healthy. It may, as you say, cause you some problems.

In any event, I wish you the best of luck in your enterprise.

Edited October 11, 2009 by Greenside

[DanRW]

This is a country where many parents regard western educational methods as likely to compromise their children's "Thainess" and so qualities such as respect and obedience are often valued above creative thinking and a questioning approach which we regard as healthy.

Thanks. I'll definitely take that on board. It will ultimately come down to how we frame our parent workshops as Montessori doesn't sacrifice one set of qualities for the other. In fact in my experience the relationship between the teacher and child is more formal than most nurserys.

Very helpful.

[Shah Jahan]

If you came and opened that in Pai, it is sorely needed as there is no "education" in this town unless you want your child locked in a monkey cage

120k is steep, I would pay it because I can, but would have to research other folks and their pocketbooks.

earlier this year, all the parents got together and we counted about 30 luek-kruengs between the ages of 2-8 in Pai so that is a good start. And probably another 10 from BKK families who would appreciate decent english education.

feel free to PM if you need more info.

Edited October 14, 2009 by Shah Jahan

[Benjie]

One thing is that not many expats in Chiang Mai will be working there. It tends to be more of a retirement place so you don't have multinationals paying expenses and schooling.

There is also a lot of competition with some really very well regarded schools,

EDIT - Seems there is quite a big Montessori (pre) school in Bangkok which is around 72k baht per year including insurance and meals.

Edited October 14, 2009 by Benjie

[DanRW]

If you came and opened that in Pai, it is sorely needed as there is no "education" in this town unless you want your child locked in a monkey cage

120k is steep, I would pay it because I can, but would have to research other folks and their pocketbooks.

earlier this year, all the parents got together and we counted about 30 luek-kruengs between the ages of 2-8 in Pai so that is a good start. And probably another 10 from BKK families who would appreciate decent english education.

feel free to PM if you need more info.

We're thinking 100k is managable but as I said we're prepared to take it slowly.

Best chai tea in Pai. Mmmmm. Would love to set up there. In fact that's a very good idea. We're hoping to make the Children's House in Chiang Mai one of a small number regionally - the real problem is going to be finding the qualified (and committed) staff to work in number two, three etc. Wont be going anywhere quickly with 100k though, let alone 72.

30 leuk kreungs huh. I'm not surprised about that but paw mair can't be 'working' can they? Not in Pai and be in a position to find 100K? Must be rich and retired early. BTW its too late to start Monty after 4 yrs of age. 5 at a stretch.

Thanks for the post Shah Jahan!

Dan

[DanRW]

One thing is that not many expats in Chiang Mai will be working there. It tends to be more of a retirement place so you don't have multinationals paying expenses and schooling.

There is also a lot of competition with some really very well regarded schools,

EDIT - Seems there is quite a big Montessori (pre) school in Bangkok which is around 72k baht per year including insurance and meals.

Hmm. I hear ya. We're told that generally speaking the Western expats wont have the cash. Our families are likely to be mostly Thai, Chinese, Korean maybe. I was expecting a real mix but with Western or leug kreung children making up the lion share.

Cheers Benjie.

[DanRW]

EDIT - Seems there is quite a big Montessori (pre) school in Bangkok which is around 72k baht per year including insurance and meals.

Is that the MMI one?

[DanRW]

EDIT - Seems there is quite a big Montessori (pre) school in Bangkok which is around 72k baht per year including insurance and meals.

Is that the MMI one btw? Got a link?

[Boksida]

There is a well established Montessori school in Lampang which may give you a better idea on fees in the North. This is the link.

[Shah Jahan]

We're thinking 100k is managable but as I said we're prepared to take it slowly.

Best chai tea in Pai. Mmmmm. Would love to set up there. In fact that's a very good idea.

30 leuk kreungs huh. I'm not surprised about that but paw mair can't be 'working' can they? Not in Pai and be in a position to find 100K? Must be rich and retired early. BTW its too late to start Monty after 4 yrs of age. 5 at a stretch.

Thanks for the post Shah Jahan!

Dan

well if you know about the chai then you already know...

just in my close circle there are 5 babies between the ages of 2-3 - all who would be game.

not everybody in pai has $$$, however you would be surprised, and moreso, everybody in pai has mothers in rich countries who are freaking out because there is no suitable education in pai - so for the right cause, I do not doubt that money can be found

I am actually terrified what to do in a year when my kid is ready for school - I really have no interest in moving to CM and would just as soon find a tutor and homeschool if there are no other options... . .

BTW its too late to start Monty after 4 yrs of age. 5 at a stretch.

well then you better get here quick. our kids are all 2-3 right now.

[Benjie]

I wouldn't have thought Asians would have been very much into Montesorri type education, surely it's not rigid enough for them?

[Greenside]

Hmm. I hear ya. We're told that generally speaking the Western expats wont have the cash. Our families are likely to be mostly Thai, Chinese, Korean maybe. I was expecting a real mix but with Western or leug kreung children making up the lion share.

Cheers Benjie.

I wouldn't go banking on the Koreans. My impression is that many are off home again.

[DanRW]

There is a well established Montessori school in Lampang which may give you a better idea on fees in the North. This is the link.

Thanks very much. We know about this one already actually. This is certainly at the lower end of tuition fees - well it would be for Chiang Mai but we're not currently considering ourselves to be competing with schools more than 100km away.

Edited October 17, 2009 by DanRW

[DanRW]

There is a well established Montessori school in Lampang which may give you a better idea on fees in the North. This is the link.

Thanks very much. We know about this one already actually. This is certainly at the lower end of tuition fees - well it would be for Chiang Mai but we're not currently considering ourselves to be competing with schools more than 100km away.