No Loss Of Face If Thaksin Helps Release Detained Thai In Cambodia

[way2muchcoffee]

Every soverign government has its on right to determine what is or is not a government secret.

You may not like the decision but I would surmise that you could find many differences with government secrets of any government.

Actually that is not true. Countries that engage in international flights with commercial carriers are signatory to international agreements regarding aviation practices.

[khunjamespittman]

Every soverign government has its on right to determine what is or is not a government secret.

You may not like the decision but I would surmise that you could find many differences with government secrets of any government.

Actually that is not true. Countries that engage in international flights with commercial carriers are signatory to international agreements regarding aviation practices.

Please let's not invent facts. Aviation regulations cover in international treaties have nothing to do with disclosure of flight information. The cambodian government has every right to declare this information secret for any instance and I would venture to say that every civilized country would declare such information if they deemed the information a potential threat to national security. Your assertion that international treaties has anything thing to do with this instance is absurd. Misinformation is not helpful. Please stick to the facts. Your fantasyies are best remaining in your head.

[webfact]

CAMBODIA'S PHONE TAPPING

Tea Banh slams red shirts

By Supalak Ganjanakhundee,

Veena Chanreung

The Nation, Kom Chad Luek

Published on November 20, 2009

Tea Banh slams red shirts

The Thai-Cambodian diplomatic row grew more complicated yesterday when Phnom Penh Defence Minister Tea Banh strongly criticised a Thai red-shirt leader for "making up" a story about a secret tape involving the Thai foreign minister.

Tea Banh and Cambodia's Foreign Ministry yesterday rejected the claim by Jatuporn Promphan that Cambodian officials had taped a phone conversation between Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya and a diplomat in Phnom Penh over former PM Thaksin Shinawatra's flight plan.

"I think the one who made claims about the tape just did it for kicks [or] probably had a hidden agenda of drumming things up to the point of war between the two countries," Tea Banh told Kom Chad Luek in a telephone interview. "This could make Cambodia end up being a scapegoat."

He said the armed forces of both countries had been on good terms and were in constant communication, sharing information.

Cambodia's Foreign Ministry also flatly denied existence of any secret tape.

"The Foreign Ministry of Cambodia is not aware of the interception of a telephone conversation between the Thai minister and the diplomat. We don't do such things," Cambodian foreign ministry spokesman Koy Kuong told The Nation in a telephone interview from Phnom Penh.

Jatuporn, an MP with the opposition Pheu Thai Party, claimed Cambodian authorities had recorded a phone conversation when Kasit ordered first secretary at the Thai Embassy in Phnom Penh Kamrob Palawatwichai to get details of Thaksin's flights.

Kasit challenged Jatuporn yesterday to make the audio recording public to prove the claim. "Is the job of opposition MPs tapping phones or serving Cambodia? If my voice is on a secret tape, I'm dying to hear it."

Jatuporn had dug in before the Cambodian denial. "Cambodia is waiting for a reaction from Thailand. I believe they will play it soon, so let's wait to hear it from there," he said yesterday. "Thai people and the world should know the truth."

Kasit insisted the conflict with Cambodia had erupted when Pheu Thai Party chairman Chavalit Yongchaiyudh visited Phnom Penh last month and Cambodian premier Hun Sen later appointed Thaksin as his economic adviser.

However, Jatuporn's claims implied the high point of the conflict - the arrest of Thai engineer Siwarak Chotipong for alleged spying - stemmed from instructions from the Thai Foreign Ministry.

Siwarak, an engineer at Cambodia Air Traffic Service (CATS) was detained last week for obtaining details of Thaksin's flight plan and allegedly taking it to a Thai diplomat, who was subsequently expelled from Phnom Penh.

Siwarak is being detained in a Phnom Penh prison pending a trial, according to Cambodia's spokesman Koy Kuong, who said the Thai was being treated in accordance with Cambodian legal processes.

His trial will start soon, he said, but declined to give an exact date.

Cambodian authorities have taken temporary control of CATS, a subsidiary of the Thai company Samart Corp, barring Thai staff from doing their jobs.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday ordered the Foreign Ministry to seek ways to protect the Thai business concession.

Kasit said the aviation navigation business operated under Cambodian investment law and could not be nationalised easily.

-- The Nation 2009/11/20

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Insight]

Chavalit must of "overseen" this guy during his last trip...

[hammered]

And now we have the Cambodian government putting the boot into Jatuporn and accusing himn of lying over the tape!

Story at the Nation: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/11/20...cs_30116995.php

Edited to add: the story includes the utter classic where Tea Banh accuses Jatuporn of trying to start a war between Cambodia and Thailand so he can blamer Cambodia. Looks like Jatuporn will have some explaining to do.

Edited November 20, 2009 by hammered

[webfact]

the story is included in this topic

[hammered]

Be interesting to see what Jatuporn says now. Interestingly a red supporting friend told me he thought the story was made up yesterday afternoon although he did coincede there were many who would believe anything Jatuporn said. Clearly Jatuporn has a few credibility issues even among his own side.

Guess Kasit gets to sue Jatuporn in a slam dunk case now.

[Trollkiller]

Looks like Jatuporn has dug himself a hole??

This is gonna get really interesting. I LOVE IT!

[samran]

As much as I dislike rumor mongering, it WOULD be an excellent idea. Though, why Canbodia when the Thai Market is bigger; just do a connecting / feeder flight from Siem Reap into BKK.

Base it in Dubai where the fuel is cheap, then connect from there into various European destinations. (small cheapo airports)

I guess when you aren't PM of Thailand anymore you don't have enough sway to change transport policy so that you can start up your own airline and make a mint off it. But with your 'best mate' an ex KR soldier and PM of your less developed neighbour, then anything is possible.

Hey, they might even use Koh Khong as a base and call that 'Bangkok East' international airport.

Edited November 20, 2009 by samran

[saag]

Thai factory worker kills Cambodian colleague with an axe

Deutsche Presse-Agentur

Nov 20, 2009

Bangkok - A Thai labourer allegedly killed a Cambodian co-worker with an axe early Friday after a heated and inebriated argument over the two countries' deteriorating diplomatic relations, police said.

Thai national Sinchai Namnon, 44, was the chief suspect in the slaying of Cambodian national Dieng, 40, who died shortly after midnight from a gash in the head and a nearly severed arm. Both injuries were inflicted with an axe.

The two men were employees at the Srimaharacha rubber processing company in Sriracha, Chonburi province, 60 kilometres south-east of Bangkok.

'They were drinking together and got in an argument about the Thai engineer who was arrested on spying charges in Cambodia last week,' Police Lieutenant-Colonel Praphan Wangkanom said.

Sinchai had fled the scene by the time police arrived.

'We are still investigating whether there were others involved in the attack,' Praphan told the German Press Agency DPA.

Thai engineer Sivarak Chutipong, an employee of the Cambodian Air Traffic Service (CATS), was arrested in in Phnom Penh on November 11.

The Cambodian government has accused Sivarak of passing on confidential information to the Thai embassy about the arrival of fugitive former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra on November 10.

Sivarak's arrest was part of an escalating spat between the two neighbouring countries, triggered by Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen's decision to name Thaksin his personal adviser.

Thaksin, who was toppled in a 2006 coup, faces a two-year jail term in Thailand on an abuse-of-power charge and is the main political antagonist of the current Thai government.

Thailand recalled its ambassador from Phnom Penh following the official announcement of Thaksin's appointment and called for a review of all aid and economic agreements with Cambodia.

Cambodia also recalled its ambassador and expelled Thailand's second secretary on charges of recruiting Sivarak.

The spat is likely to harm both countries' economies.

Cambodia is a major market for Thai exports, while Thailand is a major source of employment for Cambodian labourers.

According to a report released Friday by the International Organization for Migration, some 148,420 Cambodians had obtained permission for 'temporary stay' in Thailand as labourers as of early September.

Another 6,130 Cambodians have been granted work permits, allowing them to work in the country year round.

Cambodians account for about 10 per cent of the one million-plus migrants working legally in Thailand. Thousands more work illegally in the kingdom.

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/asi...gue-with-an-axe

[LawnGnome]

Well that is sad, and unfortunate. Jatuporn is a grade A scumbag, as our most of the Red Shirt leadership. No one disputes this. Its just a shame both Reds and Yellows can shut up for a while, and Thaksin shup up for a while, and let the country enjoy a nice couple of weeks devoted to the birthday celebrations of one far more important than any of them.

[webfact]

THAI-CAMBODIA ROW

Thaksin must resign to end all problems : Suthep

By The Nation

The only way convicted ex-prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra can help solve the Thai-Cambodia row is that he resigns from being an economic adviser for Cambodia.

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thuagsuban said Thaksin's role as an adviser has already jeopardise the mutual ties and now the Thai business in Cambodia.

"I'm not asking Khun Thaksin to resign. I believe he must resign to end all conflicts. Or Cambodia revokes his appointment. That will help end the mutual row," Suthep told reporters.

"The diplomatic ties will improve after Thaksin quits his advisory role," Suthep said.

He said he appreciated the gesture by Cambodian Defence Minister Tea Banh for stepping out to deny condoning the wire-tapping.

"I thank Tea Banh for clarifying the issue, otherwise the international community will remain suspicious of Cambodia," he said.

Tea Banh ruled out on Thursday the eavesdropping and the existence of the taped telephone conversation purported to implicate Thai engineer Siwarak Chotipong for spying in Phnom Penh.

Thai government linked Thaksin to the arrest of a Thai engineer of Cambodia Air Traffic Control Services (Cats) for allegedly spying flight plans of Thaksin and Cambodia's PM Hun Sen.

Cambodia has taken control of Cats, and ordered Thai staffs not to come to work.

Suthep insisted all the problems are the works of Thaksin and his men whose only intentions are to get Thaksin's money back and that Thaksin would not have to serve two-year jail term.

-- The Nation 2009/11/20

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[LawnGnome]

Suthep insisted all the problems are the works of Thaksin and his men whose only intentions are to get Thaksin's money back and that Thaksin would not have to serve two-year jail term.

-- The Nation 2009/11/20

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Suthep certainly understands the score quite well. Its all about money. Not "Democracy", not the "Rural Poor". Its about Thaksin's money. end of story.

[Asa]

INN news: "Sivarak, the Thai CATS engineer admitted that he obtained TS flightplan. FM Kasit later said the man admitted it because he is innocent.". The piece of the news did not elaborate why the man did it. He was a maintenance engineer, not on the air trafic control team. Flight infomation is beyond his area of duties.

The logic of the Foreign Minister is very much questionable. The man is innocently steal the information? or the stealing information is not a crime?

[phupaman]

Hi All

Asa you cannot steal information when it is already in the public domain.

phupaman

[Nacho]

"Mr Suthep added that the flight schedule should not be considered a secret information"

That is exactly what I was thinking. What exactly has he been arrested for? A spy or something?

I thought Taksin was supposed to be only in Cambodia to teach them about economics.

Doesn't the circumstances for his arrest just strengthen the case that Taksin is really there for something different?

How long has he been locked up for already....poor guy.

[animatic]

Every soverign government has its on right to determine what is or is not a government secret.

You may not like the decision but I would surmise that you could find many differences with government secrets of any government.

Actually that is not true. Countries that engage in international flights with commercial carriers are signatory to international agreements regarding aviation practices.

Ditto.

Flight information is public knowledge for the saftey of ALL PILOTS.

With the exception of military flights, and THOSE flights are fully informed

of ALL CIVILIAN air traffic in the area.

This is why flight plans are filed and public knowledge.

[Asa]

Every soverign government has its on right to determine what is or is not a government secret.

You may not like the decision but I would surmise that you could find many differences with government secrets of any government.

Actually that is not true. Countries that engage in international flights with commercial carriers are signatory to international agreements regarding aviation practices.

Ditto.

Flight information is public knowledge for the saftey of ALL PILOTS.

With the exception of military flights, and THOSE flights are fully informed

of ALL CIVILIAN air traffic in the area.

This is why flight plans are filed and public knowledge.

Flight Plan is known to limited authorized ring, except for U.S.A. where you can search and track any civil flights. It does not have the name of the passengers, but give detail of the flight not for the public to learn. such as aricraft registration, type, route, fuel, navigation equipment, rule of flight, number of people onboard, and many more(see basic info at wikipidia). Non-scehduled flight's plan has never been for the pubilc, only for the authority in charge in each country. Thailand certainly has the flightplan in question, but may not know for real who is on the plane. If you think flightplan is for everyone to know, show the very flight plan here, please.

Some may want to further learn of an agreement on right to fly over other member states and permission process. I'd suggest http://www.thailawforum.com/articles/transit2.html

Concerning the question of stealing, or not stealing. If someone took away my newspaper from my fence, I call it thieve, and the person might be arrested for spying on my house as well.

Sivarak may innocently think that he'd done nothing wrong, he may actually did nothing as alleged. But he would now realize he is in bad position. Before he would be released, the trial could get uglier. I pity him that Suthep, Kasit are handling the case.