Argh! Confusion! Urgent Work Permit? Tourist Visa?

[DeeMan]

Hi All.

I'm working for an Australian firm (and an Australian citizen, with an Aussie passport), and will possibly be flying to Thailand to install some PC's for a company in Thailand, and to provide support whilst others train some Thai nationals in the use of the system. Oh, and i'm in my 20's, if that matters.

I am fully paid by the Australian company (including accomodation and travel), and will be receiving no monetary payment or compensation whatsoever from any Thailand business.

This should only take 3-4 days to install, plus a couple of days tourist travel for myself. Perhaps 8 days in Thailand in total.

I'm an Australian citizen - what permit or visas do i need, if any? I've noticed we've signed a Free Trade Agreement with Thailand, but i'm not sure if the new regulations are in effect yes as they apply to visas...

I've been told not to worry, and that i can do all this under a tourist visa, despite travelling business class and carrying a notebook.

What do i really need to do to cover myself? Can i apply for a urgent work permit on my arrival (The Form 11?), or do i need to do this before i leave, or does the Thai company need to do this on my behalf?

Help!

I've searched high and low, but can't find another thread that answers this...

Cheers!

Dee.

Edited April 27, 2005 by DeeMan

[triplegee]

A short term stay of the nature you have described is of no issue whatsoever whilst holding simply a tourist visa which will be issued to you on arrival at Don Muang - for Aussies 30 days is standard.

Given you will be working under the auspices of your Australian employer for the duration of your stay there's no need for any other form of visa.

Kick back and enjoy the trip.....

GGG

[astral]

A short term stay of the nature you have described is of no issue whatsoever whilst holding simply a tourist visa which will be issued to you on arrival at Don Muang - for Aussies 30 days is standard.

Given you will be working under the auspices of your Australian employer for the duration of your stay there's no need for any other form of visa.

Kick back and enjoy the trip..... 

GGG

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is not good advice.

You should apply for a Non Imm B visa to cover your trip and the Thai company

should apply for a Work Permit for you.

Without these you risk arrest, deportation and a ban on visiting Thailand every again.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

A short term stay of the nature you have described is of no issue whatsoever whilst holding simply a tourist visa which will be issued to you on arrival at Don Muang - for Aussies 30 days is standard.

Given you will be working under the auspices of your Australian employer for the duration of your stay there's no need for any other form of visa.

Kick back and enjoy the trip..... 

GGG

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is not good advice.

You should apply for a Non Imm B visa to cover your trip and the Thai company

should apply for a Work Permit for you.

Without these you risk arrest, deportation and a ban on visiting Thailand every again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

with the non b he'll get by without the wp. the 30 day is not even a visa that's trouble if sprung.

[Sunny Valentine]

Astral, while I agree in general to your advice, I see a problem in the situation that DeeMan describes: He is not working (as employee or whatsoever) for the Thai company at all; it seems that the Thai Company has bought the services of an Australian Company, probably without an Office or department in Thailand. Now an employment of the worker(s) by the Thai Company could be seen as a circumvention, also it touches legal as well as economic territory between the two Companies that is maybe not easy to clear.

Seems that there is no legal way of doing it that way, looks like the Aussie Company might not be allowed to offer their services in Thailand unless they have a Thai representation.

In case I am right this would be a strange situation, whereas a Thai Company can legally import goods from a foreign Co., but not with connected service from the foreign manufacturer.

Let's assume I buy some machinery from a foreign Company, they seem to be unable to set up and / or service the machinery here in Thailand (assuming it is not possible to do the work abroad). I would consider this as a trade obstacle.

Sunny

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Just remember that work is work whether paid or unpaid. He'll be fine with a Non-Immigrant B visa. The TAFTA covers short periods like this.

[DeeMan]

Astral, while I agree in general to your advice, I see a problem in the situation that DeeMan describes: He is not working (as employee or whatsoever) for the Thai company at all; it seems that the Thai Company has bought the services of an Australian Company, probably without an Office or department in Thailand. Now an employment of the worker(s) by the Thai Company could be seen as a circumvention, also it touches legal as well as economic territory between the two Companies that is maybe not easy to clear.

Seems that there is no legal way of doing it that way, looks like the Aussie Company might not be allowed to offer their services in Thailand unless they have a Thai representation.

In case I am right this would be a strange situation, whereas a Thai Company can legally import goods from a foreign Co., but not with connected service from the foreign manufacturer.

Let's assume I buy some machinery from a foreign Company, they seem to be unable to set up and / or service the machinery here in Thailand (assuming it is not possible to do the work abroad). I would consider this as a trade obstacle.

Sunny

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Our company is a seperate entity from the Thailand business (the Thai business has been registered on it's own). The Thailand business is it's own seperate entity, registered in Thailand.

Update: I'm now told that the business in Thailand is owned by the Australian business ... Does this matter?

They are purchasing through us the equipment (which we are buying from another company in Australia), which i will be installing and configuring for them. There is no-one available in Thailand who can do this, as it requires knowledge of our Australian systems.

Does this help? I'm also talking to our HR department about this, but i fear they're not trying hard enough, or are going to shortchange me.

They have offered me an official letter stating that i am under their instruction, and that they are responsible, but i don't know that it will carry any weight if i'm challenged over there.

A call to the Thai consulate tells me that i need a Business Visa (Single or Multiple Entry..)

Edited April 27, 2005 by DeeMan

[Totster]

Astral, while I agree in general to your advice, I see a problem in the situation that DeeMan describes: He is not working (as employee or whatsoever) for the Thai company at all; it seems that the Thai Company has bought the services of an Australian Company, probably without an Office or department in Thailand. Now an employment of the worker(s) by the Thai Company could be seen as a circumvention, also it touches legal as well as economic territory between the two Companies that is maybe not easy to clear.

Seems that there is no legal way of doing it that way, looks like the Aussie Company might not be allowed to offer their services in Thailand unless they have a Thai representation.

In case I am right this would be a strange situation, whereas a Thai Company can legally import goods from a foreign Co., but not with connected service from the foreign manufacturer.

Let's assume I buy some machinery from a foreign Company, they seem to be unable to set up and / or service the machinery here in Thailand (assuming it is not possible to do the work abroad). I would consider this as a trade obstacle.

Sunny

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Our company is a seperate entity from the Thailand business (the Thai business has been registered on it's own). The Thailand business is it's own seperate entity, registered in Thailand.

They are purchasing through us the equipment (which we are buying from another company in Australia), which i will be installing and configuring for them. There is no-one available in Thailand who can do this, as it requires knowledge of our Australian systems.

Does this help? I'm also talking to our HR department about this, but i fear they're not trying hard enough, or are going to shortchange me.

They have offered me an official letter stating that i am under their instruction, and that they are responsible, but i don't know that it will carry any weight if i'm challenged over there.

Edit: TAFTA?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If it were me I would be inclined to get the B visa as advised, It won't matter what letter you have or what you tell Immigration if they catch you, it will still be you that gets it in the neck and quite possibly end up not being able to return to LOS in the future.

totster

Edited April 27, 2005 by Totster

[Sel]

Get a single entry non B from a consulate.

In brisbane for example you need

1. a letter from your company on a company letterhead stating what your going to do, but check with the consulate if this letter has to come from the thai company.

2. A passport size photo (they can do it there for $15)

3. Completed application form

4. Forget how much it cost

Tell them what you're doing in Thailand

They'll say you should be applying for a work permit because they have to advise that but they'll understand you won't have time and it'll be a hassle

They'll give a non-b to you while you wait. All up you're in and out in 10 minutes as there are no queues.

Don't know about other consulates though

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Astral, while I agree in general to your advice, I see a problem in the situation that DeeMan describes: He is not working (as employee or whatsoever) for the Thai company at all; it seems that the Thai Company has bought the services of an Australian Company, probably without an Office or department in Thailand. Now an employment of the worker(s) by the Thai Company could be seen as a circumvention, also it touches legal as well as economic territory between the two Companies that is maybe not easy to clear.

Seems that there is no legal way of doing it that way, looks like the Aussie Company might not be allowed to offer their services in Thailand unless they have a Thai representation.

In case I am right this would be a strange situation, whereas a Thai Company can legally import goods from a foreign Co., but not with connected service from the foreign manufacturer.

Let's assume I buy some machinery from a foreign Company, they seem to be unable to set up and / or service the machinery here in Thailand (assuming it is not possible to do the work abroad). I would consider this as a trade obstacle.

Sunny

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Our company is a seperate entity from the Thailand business (the Thai business has been registered on it's own). The Thailand business is it's own seperate entity, registered in Thailand.

Update: I'm now told that the business in Thailand is owned by the Australian business ... Does this matter?

They are purchasing through us the equipment (which we are buying from another company in Australia), which i will be installing and configuring for them. There is no-one available in Thailand who can do this, as it requires knowledge of our Australian systems.

Does this help? I'm also talking to our HR department about this, but i fear they're not trying hard enough, or are going to shortchange me.

They have offered me an official letter stating that i am under their instruction, and that they are responsible, but i don't know that it will carry any weight if i'm challenged over there.

A call to the Thai consulate tells me that i need a Business Visa (Single or Multiple Entry..)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd suspect that a Thai Consulate might be more up to speed than your company's HR people on Thai advice. I don't know which Consulate you called but just cross check with the Thai Consulate Brisbane 07 3846 7771 [email protected]

[DeeMan]

I'd suspect that a Thai Consulate might be more up to speed than your company's HR people on Thai advice. I don't know which Consulate you called but just cross check with the Thai Consulate Brisbane 07 3846 7771  [email protected]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I gave Brisbane a call, and was told the same.

Passport photo.

Letter from Oz & Thai employer.

Fee is $90 for a single visit, $225 for a multi visit.

I'll call the consulate near me when they're open next and confirm, and get in and get it done. More than happy to play by the rules, was just trying to figure out what the rules were.

Thanks all.

It's not much trouble to save me a whole lot of hassle whilst i'm over there, and i'll feel better not looking over my shoulder all the time, unsure on whether what i was told is right. Cheers. Just wanted to confirm what i needed, as i think HR was giving me a bum steer.

Edited April 27, 2005 by DeeMan

[bkk_mike]

What's the fuss - Thailand - Australia FTA means Australian "specialist" can come in on a business visitor visa. - Article 1002 of the FTA.

So long as you're an Australian national, working for an Australian company, and the company you're doing the work for is not a subsidiary of the Australian company (or vice-versa), and you continue to be paid in Australia.

In your case, the company is a subsidiary, or at least linked, but I think you can still apply for the same visa, but as an inter-company temporary transfer. Again, I don't think you need a work permit under the FTA for a temporary assignment.

Edited April 27, 2005 by bkk_mike

[sniffdog]

Non B or not .... you're not allowed to work! To work you need a WP. Acording to the Labor Act (2541) any person working in Thailand for payment (no matter where it's coming from) is required to have a WP.

But there is no thing as a urgent WP.

Just do your thing on your Tourist Visa and don't worry at all. I know people working here for 8 years without a WP.

[DeeMan]

In your case, the company is a subsidiary, or at least linked, but I think you can still apply for the same visa, but as an inter-company temporary transfer. Again, I don't think you need a work permit under the FTA for a temporary assignment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm clarifying the relationship between the companies tomorrow (i think they are seperate), and i'll call the local consulate with all the info friday and find out what needs to happen...

Definitely going to get a Non immigrant business Visa, will ask if i need to organise anything else.

[samran]

Non B or not .... you're not allowed to work! To work you need a WP. Acording to the Labor Act (2541) any person working in Thailand for payment (no matter where it's coming from) is required to have a WP.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True, but under the conditions of the Australian FTA with Thailand, Australians are allowed to conduct 'business meetings' for up to 15 days without a work permit.

Strictly speaking, all forms of work, including business meetings, require a work permit. However, under the conditions of the FTA, when it comes to meetings, Australians are exempt for 15 days from this law.

So if DeeMan feels confident calling what he is doing a ' business meeting' then he won't need a work permit and should be just be able to arrive on a non-Immigrant B visa.

In any case, immigration won't care. They are bothered, they are more interested in catching illegal burmese, cambodian and Laoation workers.

Edited April 27, 2005 by samran

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Non B or not .... you're not allowed to work! To work you need a WP. Acording to the Labor Act (2541) any person working in Thailand for payment (no matter where it's coming from) is required to have a WP.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True, but under the conditions of the Australian FTA with Thailand, Australians are allowed to conduct 'business meetings' for up to 15 days without a work permit.

Strictly speaking, all forms of work, including business meetings, require a work permit. However, under the conditions of the FTA, when it comes to meetings, Australians are exempt for 15 days from this law.

So if DeeMan feels confident calling what he is doing a ' business meeting' then he won't need a work permit and should be just be able to arrive on a non-Immigrant B visa.

In any case, immigration won't care. They are bothered, they are more interested in catching illegal burmese, cambodian and Laoation workers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not a chance of getting done over by the Labour Department for the short term visit by an Australian with a B visa

[penelope]

My employer in Thailand (a US Fortune 500 software company) often have specialist consultants fly into BKK for 2-3 days for seminars, training etc....they always just tick the "business" box for "purpose of visit" on arrival. If they had to stay for longer periods, then I believe HR would organise the correct paperwork.

[bkk_mike]

The 15 days business visitor exists for most countries - that's not part of the FTA.

Brits, Americans, etc. can do that.

(American Express held a conference in Phuket last month for non-US staff - you think everyone had to apply for a business visa?)

In theory - he could turn up and since he's here less than 2 weeks, ask for an Urgent Work Permit. That would cover specialists doing things like software installation, so would cover him.

However, as he's Australian, I think he's better going for the FTA route since that would allow him to work temporarily in Thailand for up to 90 days, in case the job overruns. (Quite common for a software project to get held up - especially if the install is happening at weekends. All you need is a power cut or a network problem and you're there another week.)

[DeeMan]

However, as he's Australian, I think he's better going for the FTA route since that would allow him to work temporarily in Thailand for up to 90 days, in case the job overruns. (Quite common for a software project to get held up - especially if the install is happening at weekends. All you need is a power cut or a network problem and you're there another week.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What exactly is the FTA route?

[samran]

There is no FTA route, apart from express processing of work permits at the BOI centre for Australian nationals in certain circumstances.

Best, and safest bet still, is to get a non-immi B and come to Thailand on that. As mentioned, you have 15 days to undertake meetings without the need for a work permit. No-one will be following you around.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Non B or not .... you're not allowed to work! To work you need a WP. Acording to the Labor Act (2541) any person working in Thailand for payment (no matter where it's coming from) is required to have a WP.

But there is no thing as a urgent WP.

Just do your thing on your Tourist Visa and don't worry at all. I know people working here for 8 years without a WP.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is dangerous and incorrect ' advice ' IGNORE IT

[bkk_mike]

Non B or not .... you're not allowed to work! To work you need a WP. Acording to the Labor Act (2541) any person working in Thailand for payment (no matter where it's coming from) is required to have a WP.

But there is no thing as a urgent WP.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To contradict sniffdog - Here's a link to the list of documentation required when using the application form (Tor Thor 11) for an urgent work permit.

http://www.doe.go.th/workpermit/Onestopservice/wp11.htm

[Khutan]

Whats the problem....

If you are Australian and working for a decent size company - about 1 hour at the 1-stop and you have a w/p. Finished.

I think your HR needs to do some homework.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Whats the problem....

If you are Australian and working for a decent size company - about 1 hour at the 1-stop and you have a w/p. Finished.

I think your HR needs to do some homework.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HR know zilch and just want him to go do the job (and get out of their sight )

[seacaptain]

Following found in FAQ section of www.thailandlaw.com

Q. In case a Thai company wishes to have a foreign technician to install machinery and to teach their Thai staff for 1 - 2 weeks how to operate the machinery, would this foreigner be required to apply for a work permit?

A. In case of necessary and urgent work to be carried out over a period of not more than 15 days, a work permit is not required. However, a notification needs to be filed with the respective authorities.

Hope it helps.