Solution For Double Pricing?

[lapoon]

What about Siam Paragon's Aquarium?

Private enterprise and blantant dual pricing (Thai prices are written in Thai script) Tourist prices are nearly tripple!

This one truely makes me angry

Bastards-- writing the price in their own language !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ye do realize the Siam Ocean World in Paragon is an Australian company with Australian management, don't ye?

AHHH the irony

[Mario2008]

It is against the law, but requires a civil law suit (or complaint with the consumer protection board).

You can act, and at the same time inform the Australian press about your complaint. See how long they will continue.

[hehehoho]

Well this is the Australian management's response from 2008.

Dear Mr ******************,

I have been forwarded your email by TAT and would like to reply on behalf of Siam Ocean World (SOW).

You are correct in your assertion that SOW operates a dual pricing, however we offer a Thai resident rate and many expatriates living in Thailand also avail themselves of the reduced rate. All other attractions, both government and privately operated, use this system and often the rates differ tenfold or in some instances Thais are free and foreigners charged.

It is also my experience that offering 'locals' rates is prevalent around the world in tourist attractions and indeed hotels although I readily acknowledge that generally the variance is not as great as in Thailand.

I am distressed at the 'racist' tag as this cannot be further from the truth in how our company operates. In fact our family passes use an age based assessment on children to make it more affordable for foreign families. Our regular pricing uses height based assessment of under 120cm for children which is appropriate for Thais but which penalised foreigners whose children tend to be taller.

We are proud of the feedback we get from tourists who visit our aquarium and hope that your family enjoyed your visit.

Yours sincerely,

Geoff Olson

General Manager

Siam Ocean World

[barky]

The Thai government , police and other govt agencies and some private businesses ( eg: hotels, tuk tuks) are generally all a bunch of crooks. But they are not so stupid that they are gonna put in writing that they condone as well as practice duel pricing ie: one price for asians and a far higher price for westeners. They just charge higher prices for westeners because they can, because most Thais believe its justified, because "what ya gonna do about it farang". (All western governments are fully aware of the situation here but we know their collective policy is hands off Thailand, turn a blind eye to everything)

This is just the way it is in Thailand. Its endemic. And it will never change! The majority of Thais (particularly those in business, govt, police, hotels, etc) believe that westeners are fair game to be taken advantage of at any opportunity. If this was not so it wouldn't happen.

A case in point: For the last 5 weeks myself and my Thai wife holidayed in 5 European countries Italy, Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, 25 cities Rome to Lisbon and everything in between: countless hotels,attractions, transport of every description (rent a car, buses, metro, train, plane, ferry, finicular, tram etc) 2 different restaurants everyday etc, etc, so on and so forth. And not on one single occasion was my wife referred to as "The Asian" not on one single occasion did we pay one Euro more for anything just because she is Asian.

In this regard (duel pricing for westeners) Thailand sucks!!!! and should be ashamed of itself. But the truth is most Thais would see no wrong in it at all and in fact find the topic amusing 555.

The simple solution is to educate westeners about the "policy" of duel pricing and to avoid any place that does it.

I further belive its the duty of businesses like Thai Visa and the like who say they provide a service for expats to list all the hotels, attractions, parks, restaurants and other businesses in Thailand that have duel ricing.

Edited July 7, 2011 by barky

[bkkjames]

The last time I faced this was at the dusit zoo. When I told the nice lady I would only look at half of the animals-well I didn't get the thai price, but I got one of those puzzled looks that was worth more the the price of admission.

Next time I will try wearing a patch over one eye.

[hehehoho]

The Thai government , police and other govt agencies and some private businesses ( eg: hotels, tuk tuks) are generally all a bunch of crooks. But they are not so stupid that they are gonna put in writing that they condone as well as practice duel pricing ie: one price for asians and a far higher price for westeners. They just charge higher prices for westeners because they can, because most Thais believe its justified, because "what ya gonna do about it farang".

You seem to have left out 'some western owned and managed businesses here'.

[

[robblok]

The last time I faced this was at the dusit zoo. When I told the nice lady I would only look at half of the animals-well I didn't get the thai price, but I got one of those puzzled looks that was worth more the the price of admission.

Next time I will try wearing a patch over one eye.

That would be fun to see

I really hate dual pricing but sometimes i just accept it for the sake of others. I would accept it if i had a kid and it would make him / her happy. But for myself i usually vote with me feet.

But even in many of the parks i get in for Thai price. Last time i was with the wife and a friend (foreigner here on a holiday) and i paid Thai price because of my drivers license. So that was ok else i would have paid anyway because my friend wanted to go there.

[soomak]

The Thai government , police and other govt agencies and some private businesses ( eg: hotels, tuk tuks) are generally all a bunch of crooks. But they are not so stupid that they are gonna put in writing that they condone as well as practice duel pricing ie: one price for asians and a far higher price for westeners. They just charge higher prices for westeners because they can, because most Thais believe its justified, because "what ya gonna do about it farang". (All western governments are fully aware of the situation here but we know their collective policy is hands off Thailand, turn a blind eye to everything)

This is just the way it is in Thailand. Its endemic. And it will never change! The majority of Thais (particularly those in business, govt, police, hotels, etc) believe that westeners are fair game to be taken advantage of at any opportunity. If this was not so it wouldn't happen.

A case in point: For the last 5 weeks myself and my Thai wife holidayed in 5 European countries Italy, Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, 25 cities Rome to Lisbon and everything in between: countless hotels,attractions, transport of every description (rent a car, buses, metro, train, plane, ferry, finicular, tram etc) 2 different restaurants everyday etc, etc, so on and so forth. And not on one single occasion was my wife referred to as "The Asian" not on one single occasion did we pay one Euro more for anything just because she is Asian.

In this regard (duel pricing for westeners) Thailand sucks!!!! and should be ashamed of itself. But the truth is most Thais would see no wrong in it at all and in fact find the topic amusing 555.

The simple solution is to educate westeners about the "policy" of duel pricing and to avoid any place that does it.

I further belive its the duty of businesses like Thai Visa and the like who say they provide a service for expats to list all the hotels, attractions, parks, restaurants and other businesses in Thailand that have duel ricing.

I agree with you 100%

Just because they are "Thai" doesn't give them any moral right to be such a--holes

[hehehoho]

I agree with you 100%

Just because they are "Thai" doesn't give them any moral right to be such a--holes

But some of them are westerners.

[barky]

If you are going to have double pricing then better get good at hiding the fact each and every time cos if I spot it my money stays in my pocket and as other posters have said I walk away.

Its not just Thailand this happens worldwide.

BUT it doesn't happen worldwide based on skin colour. That's the <deleted> point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[barky]

The Thai government , police and other govt agencies and some private businesses ( eg: hotels, tuk tuks) are generally all a bunch of crooks. But they are not so stupid that they are gonna put in writing that they condone as well as practice duel pricing ie: one price for asians and a far higher price for westeners. They just charge higher prices for westeners because they can, because most Thais believe its justified, because "what ya gonna do about it farang".

You seem to have left out 'some western owned and managed businesses here'.

[

Yes, you're right. There are a few, but certainly a miniscule minority. Nevertheless, double shame on them. Hypocrisy should be the 11th comandment.

[JeffreyMcCollum]

In Hawaii we had dual priciing too. You would ask for Kamaina rates to get the lower price with your ID

I usually just have my wife call or get things. It is also helpful to read Thai numbers as some shops do that for Thai dual pricing.

Usually now that I am here most know me and give me the fair price, some times not and I just walk but that is OK.

I do Pay Thai income tax more than most Thais I suspect. And my Thai ID helps most of the time

[bangkokburning]

Wonderboy is correct - NPs are funded by (farang) fees

Tropo - Speak for your own country. Most of the US is quite accommodating toward immigrants. Especially metros areas and moreover, California. Australia, well we know about that story.

[rotary]

Top man i tottaly agree with you,

i am from the same thirld world nation so when i leave said nation i will turn off the lights and lock my car in your shoe box?

When I see dual prices I just do not enter, that's all.

[wolf5370]

A good one was a Doi Suthep - went with about 5 Thai kids and 8 Thai adults and me. Cachier at the desk at first wanted to charge me farang, but Thai adults said "no" (I was not at the counter, but standing amongst the little group not hiding) - this was at the box car entrance (old people with us could not do the stairs). Followed a big queue of Chinese tourists, (and obviously so - very loud spoken Chinese, large cameras and Chinese clothing) - at the lift like door to the box car, the woman allows all the Chinese people in and all my Thai group and bars me - I show my ticket again - she ignores my Thai (pretending she can not understand me at all - takes my ticket and marches off to the cachiers - this holds up the box car - comes back about 2 minutes later (box car still waiting) and demands another 50B - extreamely rude -and I told her so - in Thai - I paid, but only because of the group I was with. The Chinese all had Thai tickets (obvious from their colour and my Thai friends asked to see their tickets they didn't speak Thai at all either). So, certainly about skin colour there and nothing else. At the top of the stairs - if you don't use the box car, they pounce on any white skin and make them pay their 50B - any Asians are ignored - Thais, Japanese, Chinese, Indians, Filipinos, and so on - many obviously tourists too. I personally hate going there - only go as part of groups when obliged - I think its very overrated and many more beautiful temples in CM - let alone Thailand as a whole! ...only one I have ever been to that charges btw.

When I was there I remember having to actually _want_ to pay the farang price (no charge for thai people) at the temple. Was a completely separate charge booth not connected with entrance, nor any ticket checking anywhere .. I didn't see the box car that you are mentioning, but couldn't you have taken the stairs even if some old people were with your group?

I feel like maybe some times people are working really hard on finding things to complain about... Although I will agree with you that the girl your are talking about seems like a b|tch, then again, some people are, regardless of race.

The box car has been there at least 20 years - used to be a set fee of like 10B for everyone (first time I went was 15 years or so ago) - it used to make the news every few years when the cable broke and killed the passengers!

I could have taken the stair, yes, but hindsight is 20-20. Besides, the ticket was purchased with me and I was not concerned about the price (Thai) - I may have walked up if the cashier had demanded the extra 50B for being white, but she didn't. If I had walked out when the girl took my ticket, I would have been out of pocket even more as I would not likely had go a refund (I think it says so on the ticket - in Thai).

As to walking up the stairs and voluntarily paying - this used to be the case - a donation etc. (in fact they actually lose out IMHO and people being enforced to pay a "donation" are not likely to leave a second (or better) one - and most tourists leave 100B's not 50B's - that I have seen). If you try and circumvent the kiosk by following the Thai entry then you are accosted rudely and told farang have to pay and pointed to the kiosk and farang entry. Note that Asians of other nationalities just wander through unaccosted.

These dual pricing threads come up thick and fast here on TV - it nearly always ends up in two camps:

1-Those that are affronted at the principle of being 'officially' charged extra because of the colour of their skin.

2-Those that like to boast that they have so much money that they are quite happy throwing it away and could not care less about principles.

1960: London: My dad (at 18) drives his boss - a wealthy man in suit and large car, short changed for newspaper, pulls up the paper boy - "What's sixpence to you?", says paper boy. "Six pennies, same it is to you", replies rich man. - That's why he stayed rich! Tips and donations are at discretion, that is the definition of them.

Edited July 10, 2011 by wolf5370

[wolf5370]

A good one was a Doi Suthep - went with about 5 Thai kids and 8 Thai adults and me. Cachier at the desk at first wanted to charge me farang, but Thai adults said "no" (I was not at the counter, but standing amongst the little group not hiding) - this was at the box car entrance (old people with us could not do the stairs). Followed a big queue of Chinese tourists, (and obviously so - very loud spoken Chinese, large cameras and Chinese clothing) - at the lift like door to the box car, the woman allows all the Chinese people in and all my Thai group and bars me - I show my ticket again - she ignores my Thai (pretending she can not understand me at all - takes my ticket and marches off to the cachiers - this holds up the box car - comes back about 2 minutes later (box car still waiting) and demands another 50B - extreamely rude -and I told her so - in Thai - I paid, but only because of the group I was with. The Chinese all had Thai tickets (obvious from their colour and my Thai friends asked to see their tickets they didn't speak Thai at all either). So, certainly about skin colour there and nothing else. At the top of the stairs - if you don't use the box car, they pounce on any white skin and make them pay their 50B - any Asians are ignored - Thais, Japanese, Chinese, Indians, Filipinos, and so on - many obviously tourists too. I personally hate going there - only go as part of groups when obliged - I think its very overrated and many more beautiful temples in CM - let alone Thailand as a whole! ...only one I have ever been to that charges btw.

One shouldn't be surprised when faced with discrimination in Asia. They (Asians) certainly have to deal with a lot of it when they visit Western nations and most of the rest of the world. Let's just call it payback and move on.

There is a difference between bigoted and stupid member of public and official charging policies - how would it go if a local park put up a sign saying "black people have to pay an extra $2 for entry" do you think?

We have double pricing in Australia where unemployed, students and elderly pay half of what the working people pay for many things.

Based on their skin colour?

[wolf5370]

Well this is the Australian management's response from 2008.

Dear Mr ******************,

I have been forwarded your email by TAT and would like to reply on behalf of Siam Ocean World (SOW).

You are correct in your assertion that SOW operates a dual pricing, however we offer a Thai resident rate and many expatriates living in Thailand also avail themselves of the reduced rate. All other attractions, both government and privately operated, use this system and often the rates differ tenfold or in some instances Thais are free and foreigners charged.

It is also my experience that offering 'locals' rates is prevalent around the world in tourist attractions and indeed hotels although I readily acknowledge that generally the variance is not as great as in Thailand.

I am distressed at the 'racist' tag as this cannot be further from the truth in how our company operates. In fact our family passes use an age based assessment on children to make it more affordable for foreign families. Our regular pricing uses height based assessment of under 120cm for children which is appropriate for Thais but which penalised foreigners whose children tend to be taller.

We are proud of the feedback we get from tourists who visit our aquarium and hope that your family enjoyed your visit.

Yours sincerely,

Geoff Olson

General Manager

Siam Ocean World

Neatly avoiding the fact that the practise is illegal - usual excuse other do it (i.e. break the law) so we shouldn't we? OK - other racist companies around the world are burned to the ground - how well do fish tanks burn? If they don't want tyo be "distressed" at being called 'racists' then stop being 'racist' - simple really!

What's needed here (for many things) is a really good strong expat pressure group - not all expats are "expendable" here and the powers that be know it and en-masse we have more power than we (or they) realise - enough noise can be made and with money raised from large amount of membership money, private suits against these illegally operating companies. If it becomes news (especially internationally) that these companies are losing licenses and/or fines and are being specifically targeted, I guess many companies breaking the law will change policy - and maybe some action by the Gov (or TaT at least) will be forthcoming.

[F1fanatic]

I have no problem with being charged extra at 'tourist' sites.

Edit - at the end of the day this is THEIR country and we are wealthier. Tourists are always expected to pay top price and ex-pat 'residents' should expect to pay more at these places. Generally, we visited them as tourists and have no reason to go back, so its not a problem.

I do however, get annoyed when treated like an idiot when buying things at the market or shops where prices are not displayed....

Edited July 10, 2011 by F1fanatic

[Sydebolle]

Avoid these places and make sure to drive the message home. Took my staff (350 persons) to Mini Siam in Pattaya some 10 years ago on a staff outing; visit prebooked - although my staff did not know. I was upfront to pay for the entrance and the admission staff wanted me to pay the dualed price for me and my three "alien" family members. Dont ask me why but I turned around quietly without saying anything, packed up the money and instructed that the entire convoy of nine tour coaches turned around and left again. A manager then run up to me and said they would make an exception and I confirmed to him, that indeed, I was making an exception too by not visiting. He then referred to the fact, that his admission staff had already started ripping out tickets from the booklets. Good luck to them - was my answer. I'll never forget the stupid look on the MiniSiam's staff faces; they never thought that the alien would leave without visiting..... The manager, you have to give him that, tried to fix the situation with a pamphlet about Mini Siam in Japanese "for my next visit"! My staff did not really get the message until lunch time and it was the talk of the day. To this day I was never inside; never an angry word and never felt going there again. We are not changing Thailand a bit hence live with it by either paying or not going there!

[robblok]

Avoid these places and make sure to drive the message home. Took my staff (350 persons) to Mini Siam in Pattaya some 10 years ago on a staff outing; visit prebooked - although my staff did not know. I was upfront to pay for the entrance and the admission staff wanted me to pay the dualed price for me and my three "alien" family members. Dont ask me why but I turned around quietly without saying anything, packed up the money and instructed that the entire convoy of nine tour coaches turned around and left again. A manager then run up to me and said they would make an exception and I confirmed to him, that indeed, I was making an exception too by not visiting. He then referred to the fact, that his admission staff had already started ripping out tickets from the booklets. Good luck to them - was my answer. I'll never forget the stupid look on the MiniSiam's staff faces; they never thought that the alien would leave without visiting..... The manager, you have to give him that, tried to fix the situation with a pamphlet about Mini Siam in Japanese "for my next visit"! My staff did not really get the message until lunch time and it was the talk of the day. To this day I was never inside; never an angry word and never felt going there again. We are not changing Thailand a bit hence live with it by either paying or not going there!

That is something i like.. That must have hurt them. Making an exception.. too late.

[sunanta]

National parks are government - yes, right at the top of the pyramid I guess they are, but they are left alone as independant entities to get on with the job, and my guess is that the dual pricing national parks practise, would, if it were challenged in a court, be found just as illegal as any other dual pricing practise.

Dual pricing is totally logical for Government Parks. The cost of maintaining them is paid out of taxes paid by Thais and these Parks are owned by the Nation. Why should they have to double pay to go into an asset they already own. Or put another way why should they subsidize tourists. It is clearly fair in my view. Private enterprises are simply price discriminating to maximize profit. It is to their benefit but not in the general interest of the tourist industry so is essentially private profiteering at the publics expense.

shit.... hang out a customs at the airport an you get to see better animals....once a week they catch a traveling zoo going out of thailand

[tropo]

Tropo - Speak for your own country. Most of the US is quite accommodating toward immigrants.

LOL No, I'll speak for your country too if that's ok. I've spent quite a bit of time there as well as many other Western countries. I'm talking about attitude, not official policy.

[tropo]

Based on their skin colour?

LOL.

My Asian wife has whiter skin than I do, as do many other Asians... yet she'll probably get the lower price.

Try again....

[mesohappy]

Would everyone please just do me a favour and distinguish between dual pricing based on residency and dual pricing based on citizenship/ethnicity?

The first is legal and practised world wide. The second is very illegal and practised only in Thailand.

To date, there has only been 1 time when I have gotten into a fight at the entrance to the national park and eventually turned around and went home, but that 1 time was enough to turn me off to going to the national parks for good.

As a Thai resident, I am entitled to the Thai price. Period. End of story. If you disagree then you are simply wrong.

The only time I have not made a terrible stink about this is on the 3rd class train from Hualampong. Even I refuse to get into a fist fight over 5 baht, but it still annoys me that they can get away with blatantly illegal and immoral acts.

Third class train???? No wonder you're so concerned with a few hundred baht.

[mesohappy]

^I agree with you're analogy and as well if you live in Thailand and contribute to the tax base you get same pricing as any Thai with just proof of your residency at the national parks.. A Thai drivers license or work permit is evidence enough..

*edit* That also includes zoo's etc. and even most private attractions as well.

the average Thai pays very little tax. At most, and on a generous day, an additional ฿20 added to a NP admission could be considered tax related. 10 times can't be justified. If taxation is a reasonable argument, why doesn't Singapore, Malaysis or Taiwan engage in such practice. Wait I know why, tourists are treated with respect.

The reason why singapore malaysia etc dont do it is because they are rich, developed countries (heck singapores average income is higher than most brits these days) they have the funds for their national parks.

Interesting fact: Singapore's average income is higher than most Singaporeans as well.

[mesohappy]

Dual pricing has nothing to do with paying taxes.

Everybody, even tourists, pays VAT (sales tax).

Almost nobody pays income tax (not the poor thai, not the rich thai, only the small middleclass thai).

So let us stop bringing tax into the discussion.

I believe tourists can be reimbursed for VAT upon exit.

[KKK]

Rather than all the blabbing here about whether it is right or wrong how abut some hard evidence. Take a photo of the price list where it shows double pricing based on Thai/Foreinger. Email or Fax it to the address shown at the top of this post together with the name and location of the place. Duplicate all that here so that other like minded people can flood those Fax and emails addresses with the same info. You never know something might happen...

Edited July 12, 2011 by KKK

[pauljones]

Siam Ocean World at Siam Paragon used to have the same prices for Thais and Foreigners.

They decided to run a scam on foreigners by raising the prices but hiding the lower Thai price in Thai script.

Sneaky, no?

What other business in the Siam Paragon are scamming foreigners like this?

[thequietman]

Would everyone please just do me a favour and distinguish between dual pricing based on residency and dual pricing based on citizenship/ethnicity?

The first is legal and practised world wide. The second is very illegal and practised only in Thailand.

To date, there has only been 1 time when I have gotten into a fight at the entrance to the national park and eventually turned around and went home, but that 1 time was enough to turn me off to going to the national parks for good.

As a Thai resident, I am entitled to the Thai price. Period. End of story. If you disagree then you are simply wrong.

The only time I have not made a terrible stink about this is on the 3rd class train from Hualampong. Even I refuse to get into a fist fight over 5 baht, but it still annoys me that they can get away with blatantly illegal and immoral acts.

As a Thai resident (assuming permanent) you will be excited to know at the age of 60 you are entitled to a Bt30 medical card that you can use at Government Hospitals.

as a resident who has a yellow house book, you are entitled to the 30 baht health scheme irrespective of age. I am 41 and have my thai medical card.

[Mirth]

Thailand is a democratic country running on patronage system. If the local and actual citizens are treated on double, triple or quadrup standards, should we as foreigners be complaining when we are charged double to visit something that's sitting in their homeland? From my personal experience, i have been accorded better treatment compared to the locals be it a visit to the public or private hospital or goverment agencies. I have seen patients queueing up since morning to see the doctor whereas i just walk in when my appointment time is due. In restaurants, am able to jump queue and get the table compared to locals who stand outside waiting for a table to be free. I guess in these scenerios, it's what makes the locals charge us more when it's their turn to service us. I don't blame them nor do i blame the foreigners for complaining but when it comes to patronage system, that's how things work. Even in my home country, priority or discounts are given to members and since we are just "aliens" in Thailand, we can't really complain when the "members" of this country get to enter a place of interest paying half the price. That's the benefit of being a member.