Thai Futures/ Options Broker Recommendation

[emsfeld]

Hi all,

was wondering whether someone could give me recommendations and a quick breakdown of fees of Thai (derivatives) brokers?

I have been looking around, in particular:

http://www.bualuang.co.th

http://www.kimeng.co.th/

http://www.tiscoetrade.com

http://www.kgieworld.co.th

Thus far I could only find info on commission charges with Kimeng. They charge roughly 500Bt for a single contract + a small TFEX fee - not sure though whether that applies to a roundturn or just one leg. I couldn't find any info on commissions with the other brokers, so I was wondering whether anyone had more information or even better experience with a particular broker.

Also, does anyone know whether some brokers provide APIs to link into their data feeds and order execution services?

Thanks!

Edited April 11, 2010 by emsfeld

[emsfeld]

Thought I'd give my post a bump.

Browsing through Thaivisa Business forum, I would have thought that quite a few ppl are trading? No one has any specific experience with Thai brokers in regards to my OP?

Cheers

[PCA]

Thought I'd give my post a bump.

Browsing through Thaivisa Business forum, I would have thought that quite a few ppl are trading? No one has any specific experience with Thai brokers in regards to my OP?

Cheers

have read your post earlier but refrained from replying as I cannot assist with first hand experience. Nevertheless I know somebody who did try to actively trade the SET Future and he stepped back to entering and holding medium term positions once in a while only. He was very disgruntled from a lack of volume, the wide spread, bad fills and expensive transaction fees.

Those facts turned my personal interest in the SET down as well in a market that appears much more interesting in theory than facilities allow to play it in reality.

Maybe not the info you are after, but ....

Regards

[Irene]

[

PCA,

Your observation is spot on. The SET is more interested in having the futures just to say that they have them rather than helping to activate the market. However, SET Index 50 is getting to have reasonable volume. It is good for one to gauge on the future trend of Set 50 Index. It is transparent and fair. Newcomer could start with one contract in finding footing in this market. Roughly, one contract has a value of BT. 500,000 requiring initial deposit of 50,000. So with 50,000 you can expose yourself to ten times your commitment to 500,000. If you have a loss above 3% of that 500,000, you will be called to top up by that 3%, If unable to pay, then a broker would have the right to liquidate your position. It is a good stop-loss measure. As to the fee, it is Bt. 500 per one contract on each commitment, (it is reduced to less if the number of contracts is large, (I can't remember the details since I don't pay much attention to this)). It is best to go by internet trading rather than going through marketing people who tend to confuse you. You have to control your own destiny through internet trading. Currently, I know of five brokers and just recently moved from one broker to another broker because their website broke down too often. Under my internet trading, the brokers are all the same. Kim Eng, Tisco, Trinity, KGI and Phatra are relying on the same system with slight adjustments on reporting. But Phatra seems to be best in reporting. It is one and only broker who sends you a summary of the transactions each day advising you of your profit or loss so far.

I have to warn you that profit or loss is so volatile, (quick and fast) that sometimes you thought you were in a dream land or in hel_l. Since emergency decree and 21 deaths, those in the long position are losing by 6% percent of their exposures. Opposite-wise, if index is reversed to the previous glory and if you dare to commit now, a 6% gain could result. So, it is real risky for newcomer. It is best to start with small until you have become experienced and understand the system. You will be surprised that few brokers understand this market well. You can forget gold which is influenced by local gold trader association and the system is opaque while stock units hardly have any liquidity.

[Irene]

[quote name='emsfeld'

Edited April 13, 2010 by Irene

[emsfeld]

Thanks for the info so far. Indeed, I found the commission fees to be quite expensive as well, considering that elsewhere I'd pay probably 300 Bt for a roundtrip on a single contract with the more expensive broker at most. As volume increases, those fees would come down even considerably further. Plus with quite a few brokers I can get API access which my strategies rely heavily on - in fact they wouldnt work without.

I became interested in Thai futures as I had seen the fees on equities are actually quite low. Especially when you want to production test your system and start out trading small lots - the expenses are much higher here in OZ (on equities). I hoped that small fees on equities would ripple through to futures, but apparently not. I was quite shocked to see Kimeng's commission charges.

I did a quick check on volumes two days ago and they seemed quite reasonable across the term structure. Also the back end of the curve seemed to be quite active.

I am not so concerned with "normal" diffusive vols as the system works quite well with them. It's the jumps it doesn't deal with too well - hence positions will be flat before crucial announcements or and different scalings applied during times of too much uncertainty.

On another note: does PCA stand for Principal Components Analysis ?

Edited April 14, 2010 by emsfeld

[PCA]

Thanks for the info so far. Indeed, I found the commission fees to be quite expensive as well, considering that elsewhere I'd pay probably 300 Bt for a roundtrip on a single contract with the more expensive broker at most. As volume increases, those fees would come down even considerably further. Plus with quite a few brokers I can get API access which my strategies rely heavily on - in fact they wouldnt work without.

I became interested in Thai futures as I had seen the fees on equities are actually quite low. Especially when you want to production test your system and start out trading small lots - the expenses are much higher here in OZ (on equities). I hoped that small fees on equities would ripple through to futures, but apparently not. I was quite shocked to see Kimeng's commission charges.

I did a quick check on volumes two days ago and they seemed quite reasonable across the term structure. Also the back end of the curve seemed to be quite active.

I am not so concerned with "normal" diffusive vols as the system works quite well with them. It's the jumps it doesn't deal with too well - hence positions will be flat before crucial announcements or and different scalings applied during times of too much uncertainty.

On another note: does PCA stand for Principal Components Analysis ?

Emsfeld,

since you mentioned system trading you will face additional problems if you think you will get easily in/out in case an explosive unfafourable move does occur. Thai brokerage firms do not offer most order types you might need to have parked in the market when you are not around. Slippage is another issue since the volume is low. You will always run after the market with the available features.

This market judged on its anatomy and liquidity is only tradeable via discretionary swing trading. Any intraday or scalping strategy will lead to a steadily bleeding account.

Maybe also not the info you are after, but ....

PCA=name+nationality

[emsfeld]

Emsfeld,

since you mentioned system trading you will face additional problems if you think you will get easily in/out in case an explosive unfafourable move does occur. Thai brokerage firms do not offer most order types you might need to have parked in the market when you are not around. Slippage is another issue since the volume is low. You will always run after the market with the available features.

This market judged on its anatomy and liquidity is only tradeable via discretionary swing trading. Any intraday or scalping strategy will lead to a steadily bleeding account.

Maybe also not the info you are after, but ....

PCA=name+nationality

My system has not been parameterised yet to Thai futures, as I wanted to figure out the technical and also cost constraints first before backtesting and calibrating to actual intraday data. My results on EOD daily data have been quite promising, but my experience is that it's too risky to draw any conclusions from that as there is too much going on intraday that may lead to positions being closed out prematurely by the broker. Plus my scalings adjust also under certain conditions and limits whose impacts are unknown intraday.

At this stage I do not think it'd be worthwhile given the cost and also that there seems to be no facilities provided by brokers to get access to order book, prices and trade execution services in real time. Again, I became interested under the assumption that cost in trading futures would be similar to equities which also seems not to be the case. Thanks for replying tho, I shall get started on other markets .

[Time Traveller]

I've traded the TFEX futures when the exchange first opened. I decided to stop the day in 2006 that the BoT announced capital controls (after the close of the market) causing the market to gap lower by 10+%. So for new investors in TFEX, I recommend only for those that are prepared to take long term views and would not be unsettled with swings of 10 or 15% in market value. Or for very short term traders that would not hold any open positions overnight. So until they introduce something like 24 hr trading, the risk of some major event happening outside of market hours could result in major (>5%) gaps in prices. Good luck!

Edited April 16, 2010 by Time Traveller

[nakachalet]

just wonder out loud....

why are you apparently so very intelligent guys and gals....

doing in thai futures market knowing its limitations and unforeseen manipulation....?

successful traders comprise of the top ten percent....

futures market in thailand at present is very thin indeed....

and the comm is disproportionate as well....

[khunjake]

Good luck in getting a TFEX account opened if you are a farang.

I tried twice with the 2 largest brokers and then finally gave up as I was basically given the run around by both of them. The fact of the matter is that the Thai brokers shy away from opening TFEX accounts with farang's as the firm's liability increases should a farang account go into negative equity balance. If there is a major move against the farang's position then what is stopping the farang from cutting loose and not paying the broker the deficiency?

This is why they just don't want farang business at TFEX. As a result, the volumes will always be pitiful at this exchange and will never be taken seriously by international participants.

[khunjake]

and Yes the commissions are a complete rip-off. 500THB for a one-way so 1000THB for a round-trip! What a joke. US exchange equivalent for a round-trip is less then $6.