Thailand: A Simple Guide To Anarchy And Chaos

[rabo]

If Thaksin finance the whole Red uprising he will be BROKE by now !! $400Mill. is NOT enough to spread around,

besides his money is STILL FROZEN isn't it ? So - this is now bigger and beyond Khun T. agreed with some posters.

Assume ALL politicians are corrupt & self serving, ............ so Khun T.'s biggest mistake ??

He opened the eyes of the poor masses that there's an alternative out there than just getting B.100.- to B.500.- or more

every election year ! Is his plan flawed ? the concept is GOOD, the execution is flawed because there's not enough check and balances - so corruption is nibbling at those funds.

kg1947 maybe the penny will drop with the farang Abhisit supporters in the end

They showed red shirts in Khon Kaen the other night collecting their own contributions

amongst themselves or was that just a conspiracy theory .

For those that do not know the story of Mr. Thaksin's trip to Finland just before the coup using two aircraft with 114 large suitcases and trunks reported, rumored, to contain money, here is a link:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/politicia...own-278134.html

Or, you can google (suitcases coup money finland parked), no need for Thaksin's name.

I once did an estimage on how much that would be in terms of transportable negotiatable bills and came up with 1.0 to 1.5 billion USD.

[sotsira]

Hey John

Don't you think a free and fair election is needed?

Also, is it not time for Thailand to move into a more modern form of democracy where the people get full power to rule through their elected Parliament?

Last time I looked, The Emperor in Japan has no political role. The Queen in England?

NO

We already know what happened in China--The Last Emperor.

The French and Russian Revolutions were crazy and self destructive--but are well known.

Tell me John--if you would--Would you crawl on the ground to another man?

Well said "generalgrant" one of the few posters that can see the real picture.

Although John convieniantly ignored your question though, just shows how many posters on here don't really understand whats really going on.

[vicco]

I was around 14-15 years old and an avid follower of current affairs then as now.

At the time of the Cuban revolution the Communist factor was not a known quotient in the worlds press at that time.

Bear in mind that the world then was a very big place without the communications network we now have.

You have got to be kidding. I remember the Cuban revolution and believe me we knew that Fidel and the revolutionary army were communists. They did not exactly

keep it a secret. The only good thing was that they were not seen by many as any worse than the thugs and bandits that ran Cuba before them. They did not score any points

when they executed hundreds (maybe thousands) of people without due process, but then lots of people disappeared under Batista too. What a choice for the Cubans.

[vicco]

If Thaksin finance the whole Red uprising he will be BROKE by now !! $400Mill. is NOT enough to spread around,

besides his money is STILL FROZEN isn't it ? So - this is now bigger and beyond Khun T. agreed with some posters.

Assume ALL politicians are corrupt & self serving, ............ so Khun T.'s biggest mistake ??

He opened the eyes of the poor masses that there's an alternative out there than just getting B.100.- to B.500.- or more

every election year ! Is his plan flawed ? the concept is GOOD, the execution is flawed because there's not enough check and balances - so corruption is nibbling at those funds.

kg1947 maybe the penny will drop with the farang Abhisit supporters in the end

They showed red shirts in Khon Kaen the other night collecting their own contributions

amongst themselves or was that just a conspiracy theory .

For those that do not know the story of Mr. Thaksin's trip to Finland just before the coup using two aircraft with 114 large suitcases and trunks reported, rumored, to contain money, here is a link:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/politicia...own-278134.html

Or, you can google (suitcases coup money finland parked), no need for Thaksin's name.

I once did an estimage on how much that would be in terms of transportable negotiatable bills and came up with 1.0 to 1.5 billion USD

Yes yes...Thaksin is flying around the world with suitcases full of hard cash...quite normal for Thaksin. The rumor is that he will buy Finland...or maybe one of the smaller Baltic states...and change the name to Thaksinland. That's before Thaivisa adds genocide, possession of nuclear weapons and responsibility for melting ice caps, to his list of sins.

How about a link to "Elvis is alive and living on a South Pacific Island"....we have had just about everything else.

Thaksinland will have a plain red flag....it is rumored. Oh, and of course Finland has always been well known for it's connections with "terrorists".You actually figured out that 114 "large" suitcases will hold 1 to 1.5 Billion USD. Remarkable.....most people really would not bother with an exercise like that...you really must have a lot of spare time...

[yoshiwara]

If Thaksin finance the whole Red uprising he will be BROKE by now !! $400Mill. is NOT enough to spread around,

besides his money is STILL FROZEN isn't it ? So - this is now bigger and beyond Khun T. agreed with some posters.

Assume ALL politicians are corrupt & self serving, ............ so Khun T.'s biggest mistake ??

He opened the eyes of the poor masses that there's an alternative out there than just getting B.100.- to B.500.- or more

every election year ! Is his plan flawed ? the concept is GOOD, the execution is flawed because there's not enough check and balances - so corruption is nibbling at those funds.

kg1947 maybe the penny will drop with the farang Abhisit supporters in the end

They showed red shirts in Khon Kaen the other night collecting their own contributions

amongst themselves or was that just a conspiracy theory .

For those that do not know the story of Mr. Thaksin's trip to Finland just before the coup using two aircraft with 114 large suitcases and trunks reported, rumored, to contain money, here is a link:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/politicia...own-278134.html

Or, you can google (suitcases coup money finland parked), no need for Thaksin's name.

I once did an estimage on how much that would be in terms of transportable negotiatable bills and came up with 1.0 to 1.5 billion USD

Yes yes...Thaksin is flying around the world with suitcases full of hard cash...quite normal for Thaksin. The rumor is that he will buy Finland...or maybe one of the smaller Baltic states...and change the name to Thaksinland. That's before Thaivisa adds genocide, possession of nuclear weapons and responsibility for melting ice caps, to his list of sins.

How about a link to "Elvis is alive and living on a South Pacific Island"....we have had just about everything else.

Thaksinland will have a plain red flag....it is rumored. Oh, and of course Finland has always been well known for it's connections with "terrorists".You actually figured out that 114 "large" suitcases will hold 1 to 1.5 Billion USD. Remarkable.....most people really would not bother with an exercise like that...you really must have a lot of spare time...

Thaksin apologist gets upset at the idea that his hero is a crook.

[Kaptainstingray]

I have actually been told from a very senior member of the elite some very disturbing news....

The whole red shirt ,yellow shirt ,pink shirt etc is actually a front for a much more sinister reason

than you see on the TV news.

It is a plot by well placed clothing companies to SELL T-SHIRTS....

Everyone who ever came here on holiday knows that Thai shirts go completely out of shape when you get home and put them in the washing machine.

Remember when XXL turns into a narrow strip that doesnt cover your belly but is wide enough to circumvent a dustbin.

Well now they have found a way of selling them

And I suspect the Pink shirts are actually yesterdays red shirts....due to biological washing powder

[termad]

Same old anti-red shirt lies trotted out...give us a break.

quote]

Hey

Angry are you? I am on your side so relax.There are wealthy who are backing the revolt or are you unaware that Thaksan is rich.HAAAABut I want a new constitution and the monarchy removed totally from the political running of Thailand.

The point to remember is that yes Thaksin is Mega Rich but he is still a commoner not an Amataya (Elite) and that point is what started all of this. He was the first to promise the Rural Poor a fair deal - (OK maybe he did that to get their votes but there again perhaps he had a genuine interest in helping them. Unless you can read his mind you'll never know the truth).

Before 1932 Thailand was run by the Amataya - Aristocratic families who can trace their descent back to the first Chakri king. You maybe know that today anybody who puts the capitals MR in front of his surname with no space between is saying that he is an Amataya e.g. our own Bangkok govenor. Beneath the Amataya were the Nai who ensured that the Amataya 's orders were carried out. At the bottom of society were the Prai the peasants. After 1932 the Amataya were supposed to lose all power as the Constitutional Monarchy was established. However they did not and in fact even today the entire Thai civil service is still controlled by them. When the Amataya saw entire villages coming out and kneeling or bowing with deep wais to Thaksin that was too much because that kind of respect, to their mind, should not be given to a commoner and that was when the knives came out. A Thai journalist wrote an interesting article in the other Eng. Lang. newspaper last week in which he said that the Red Shirt movement have said that they are "going to clear the board." He went on to say that it may well be the case that because of that Redshirt Statement the Amataya for the first time feel under threat because if the Red Shirts/Phuea Thai win the election they may come after the Amataya who for the first time will be in the spotlight. He reasoned that because of this they are urging Abhisit not to give in - no matter what.

When you talk of wealthy I suspect that the old aristocratic money passed down through generations over the last two or three hundred years would dwarf the new money.

Edited April 24, 2010 by termad

[ThailandLovr]

The last news release said the Army was ordered to disperse the protesters????

[rabo]

The last news release said the Army was ordered to disperse the protesters????

I was just about to post this. This just posted at TV.

BPbreakingnews: UDD: Army chief ordered to disperse reds

Yawn.

Real story: UDD says Watermelon tells UDD Abhisit this morning ordered Anupong to remove reds using force. Anupong said OK, we will wait for a good time.

[way2muchcoffee]

The last news release said the Army was ordered to disperse the protesters????

Taken with a huge grain of salt. This information was announced by Jatuporn on the UDD stage and his source was 'an informant' in Regimental HQ.

We also know that with there is concern that the red shirt footsoldiers may be a bit irritated with the 'conciliatory' moves the red shirt leaders made last night with their new 30-day ultimatum.

Edited April 24, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[lannarebirth]

The last news release said the Army was ordered to disperse the protesters????

I was just about to post this. This just posted at TV.

BPbreakingnews: UDD: Army chief ordered to disperse reds

Yawn.

Real story: UDD says Watermelon tells UDD Abhisit this morning ordered Anupong to remove reds using force. Anupong said OK, we will wait for a good time.

Real story: Nothing has changed. Abhisit does not order dispersal and later the non dispersal will be spun as Army's refusal to follow Abhisit's orders. The crowd then cheers their leader's ability to manipulate their ignorance. A few Red Shirts will see it for what it is and the crowd thins a little more

Edited April 24, 2010 by lannarebirth

[ThailandLovr]

Dispersal or not, I am hoping the recent show of support for the PM is making him reconsider his stance, and not to give in yet. I just hate to see the mob force him to step down before the end of the year. That remains the best compromise.

Edited April 24, 2010 by ThailandLovr

[termad]

Dispersal or not, I am hoping the recent show of support for the PM is making him reconsider his stance, and not to give in yet. I just hate to see the mob force him to step down before the end of the year. That remains the best compromise.

But the Democrat party will be disolved by the end of the year so what is your point?

[rabo]

I am hoping the recent show of support for the PM is making him reconsider his stance, and not to give in yet. I just hate to see the mob bring him down before the end of the year. That remains the best compromise.

If you consider the pressure he has been under compared to your standard world crisis, I would say he has shown some stuff, even if the "elites" have to physically hold him erect for the cameras.

Mr. T's worst nightmare. The present troubles make Abhisit into a respected national and world leader.

Edited April 24, 2010 by rabo

[ThailandLovr]

Dispersal or not, I am hoping the recent show of support for the PM is making him reconsider his stance, and not to give in yet. I just hate to see the mob force him to step down before the end of the year. That remains the best compromise.

But the Democrat party will be disolved by the end of the year so what is your point?

I'm not sure what the timetable is for the actual dissolution to be complete per the EC's ruling, I thought I read it would take some number of months. But irrespective of that, my point is I don't want the mob to win anything beyond Abhisit's original offer of year-end or an EC-related timetable.

Edited April 24, 2010 by ThailandLovr

[gemini81]

Can you imagine the vindictivness if Taxin ever got back in power? the war on drugs would be nothing in comparison.

Thats what I was thinking. It would make Stalin or Mao look soft and caring. The population would probably be less than one million (exploited) followers of the red color.

[vicco]

For those that do not know the story of Mr. Thaksin's trip to Finland just before the coup using two aircraft with 114 large suitcases and trunks reported, rumored, to contain money, here is a link:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/politicia...own-278134.html

Or, you can google (suitcases coup money finland parked), no need for Thaksin's name.

I once did an estimage on how much that would be in terms of transportable negotiatable bills and came up with 1.0 to 1.5 billion USD

Yes yes...Thaksin is flying around the world with suitcases full of hard cash...quite normal for Thaksin. The rumor is that he will buy Finland...or maybe one of the smaller Baltic states...and change the name to Thaksinland. That's before Thaivisa adds genocide, possession of nuclear weapons and responsibility for melting ice caps, to his list of sins.

How about a link to "Elvis is alive and living on a South Pacific Island"....we have had just about everything else.

Thaksinland will have a plain red flag....it is rumored. Oh, and of course Finland has always been well known for it's connections with "terrorists".You actually figured out that 114 "large" suitcases will hold 1 to 1.5 Billion USD. Remarkable.....most people really would not bother with an exercise like that...you really must have a lot of spare time...

Thaksin apologist gets upset at the idea that his hero is a crook.

(a) Thaksin is not my hero. ( I am not upset © You have used that stupid Thaksin apologist term more times that he is accused of having dollars in his 114 "large" suitcases. , can't you think of anything new to say.

[ThailandLovr]

The anti-government troublemakers (Red, Black, rogue, whatever) must be so disappointed now. With the Army saying no force will be used and with talks underway, their excuse for planning/executing acts like bombing fuel depots, etc, is no longer valid. And they were so looking forward to reading about high victim counts. Bastards.

Edited April 24, 2010 by ThailandLovr

[Siam Simon]

But previously Abhisit thought house dissolution should be immediate, wouldn't that also solve the problem.

If all the reds were doing right now was what Abhisit did then - suggest house dissolution as a possible solution when questioned by reporters - then that would be fine. The reds aren't doing that. They aren't making suggestions. They are making demands with the threat of further disruptions, injuries and deaths, if their demands aren't agreed to. Do you see the difference?

Abhisit didn't need to do any more than suggest at the time: the PAD were doing the disrupting and demanding for him and his party. Do you see that there isn't any real difference?

Edited April 24, 2010 by Siam Simon

[rixalex]

But previously Abhisit thought house dissolution should be immediate, wouldn't that also solve the problem.

If all the reds were doing right now was what Abhisit did then - suggest house dissolution as a possible solution when questioned by reporters - then that would be fine. The reds aren't doing that. They aren't making suggestions. They are making demands with the threat of further disruptions, injuries and deaths, if their demands aren't agreed to. Do you see the difference?

Abhisit didn't need to do any more than suggest at the time: the PAD were doing the disrupting and demanding for him and his party. Do you see that there isn't any real difference?

There is a massive difference. Abhisit is not responsible for the actions of the PAD.

[Siam Simon]

But previously Abhisit thought house dissolution should be immediate, wouldn't that also solve the problem.

If all the reds were doing right now was what Abhisit did then - suggest house dissolution as a possible solution when questioned by reporters - then that would be fine. The reds aren't doing that. They aren't making suggestions. They are making demands with the threat of further disruptions, injuries and deaths, if their demands aren't agreed to. Do you see the difference?

Abhisit didn't need to do any more than suggest at the time: the PAD were doing the disrupting and demanding for him and his party. Do you see that there isn't any real difference?

There is a massive difference. Abhisit is not responsible for the actions of the PAD.

No. No difference. Abhisit buttered up to the PAD and made one of their apologists his Foreign Minister (or was it his decision ?).

[rixalex]

No. No difference. Abhisit buttered up to the PAD and made one of their apologists his Foreign Minister (or was it his decision ?).

Buttering up is normal practice and goes on all over the place in politics, doesn't make one group responsible the actions of another group. Sondhi is leader of the PAD and the actions of that group fall at his feet not Abhisit's.

[Siam Simon]

No. No difference. Abhisit buttered up to the PAD and made one of their apologists his Foreign Minister (or was it his decision ?).

Buttering up is normal practice and goes on all over the place in politics, doesn't make one group responsible the actions of another group. Sondhi is leader of the PAD and the actions of that group fall at his feet not Abhisit's.

Please stop playing 'stupid'. I could just as disingenuously claim that Thaksin is not actively milking the Red Shirt movement. But that would be just as pathetic as your and Ralph's feeble attempts at propaganda. I want to get to the bottom of what's going down in Thai politics at the moment, but it's a mission that is made more difficult by the codswallop and vitriol posted by extremists from both sides of the argument (why can there only be them and us?) And, yes, I include you in this extremist category.

[rabo]

Dispersal or not, I am hoping the recent show of support for the PM is making him reconsider his stance, and not to give in yet. I just hate to see the mob force him to step down before the end of the year. That remains the best compromise.

But the Democrat party will be disolved by the end of the year so what is your point?

Well, not necessarily so. Again we try to find some facts (again ??????), though maybe not correct to the letter,

The first 3 points are from my niece who is a lawyer still studying to be a judge, She said:

1. The Democratic party is widely recognized to have better legal skills than other parties.

2. The illegal contribution charges facing the democrats is a less serious charge than the voter fraud committed by Thaksin's crowd.

3. The head of the election committee had the authority the decide himself whether to forward the charges to the next level or not, but had so far not decided.

The day after the reds visited the EC, the EC held a full committee vote to decide, votes were 4:1 and 5:0 on the two charges in favor.

From reading elsewhere. The "illegal" contribution from the Paint company was made precisely at the time neither constitution was in effect, implying that just maybe it was not illegal, or at least enough room for argument and a less than clear outcome. (Again, welcome to Thailand).

Conclusion: disbandment of the Democratic Party is not a sure thing.

Edited April 25, 2010 by rabo

[rixalex]

Please stop playing 'stupid'.

Please stop accusing others of lacking in politeness if this is how you plan to go on expressing yourself.

I could just as disingenuously claim that Thaksin is not actively milking the Red Shirt movement.

Well that would be disingenuous seeing as Thaksin is the leader of that movement. Abhisit is not the leader of the PAD and simply because in some areas they share common beliefs, doesn't make Abhisit responsible for what they do.

But that would be just as pathetic as your and Ralph's feeble attempts at propaganda.

Second time you've mentioned this Ralph guy, and second time i'm asking who it is you are talking about? As for "pathetic attempts at propaganda" can you be specific rather than blindly flailing your accusations?

I want to get to the bottom of what's going down in Thai politics at the moment,

With your attitude, i don't think you have much chance of success.

[GuestHouse]

The anti-government troublemakers (Red, Black, rogue, whatever) must be so disappointed now. With the Army saying no force will be used and with talks underway, their excuse for planning/executing acts like bombing fuel depots, etc, is no longer valid. And they were so looking forward to reading about high victim counts. Bastards.

Should we take it that you have access to the inner circle planning the demonstrations - not to mention the marital status of their parents at the time of giving birth to what have become 'Red Shirts'?

How would you feel if the army in your country turned its weapons on the citizens? Or would you reserve internal military action for those that disagree with you personally?

[Mario2008]

for legal reasons quoting or linking to the Bangkok Post is not allowed per forum rules. 1 post deleted.

[jcbangkok]

deleted ... wrong thread

Edited April 27, 2010 by jcbangkok

[Siam Simon]

Siam Simon: "Please stop playing 'stupid'."

Please stop accusing others of lacking in politeness if this is how you plan to go on expressing yourself.

Siam Simon: "I could just as disingenuously claim that Thaksin is not actively milking the Red Shirt movement"

Well that would be disingenuous seeing as Thaksin is the leader of that movement. Abhisit is not the leader of the PAD and simply because in some areas they share common beliefs, doesn't make Abhisit responsible for what they do.

Siam Simon: "But that would be just as pathetic as your and Ralph's feeble attempts at propaganda."

Second time you've mentioned this Ralph guy, and second time i'm asking who it is you are talking about? As for "pathetic attempts at propaganda" can you be specific rather than blindly flailing your accusations?

Siam Simon: "I want to get to the bottom of what's going down in Thai politics at the moment."

With your attitude, i don't think you have much chance of success.

My Buddha!!! You just keep repeating the same tired propaganda nonsense. Just like all the other extremists on both sides in the debates on here, you use silly euphemisms to describe the actions and affiliations of the grouping you support, whilst jumping on every little piece of evidence, propaganda or opinion against the grouping you don't support. No honest debate and no honest exchange of info. No doubt if you or any other of the extremists bother to reply, it will be a list of seriously loaded questions followed by a series of increasingly insistent demands for answers to said loaded questions. Or a facetious request to try to understand the subject under discussion . .

[rixalex]

My Buddha!!! You just keep repeating the same tired propaganda nonsense. Just like all the other extremists on both sides in the debates on here, you use silly euphemisms to describe the actions and affiliations of the grouping you support, whilst jumping on every little piece of evidence, propaganda or opinion against the grouping you don't support. No honest debate and no honest exchange of info. No doubt if you or any other of the extremists bother to reply, it will be a list of seriously loaded questions followed by a series of increasingly insistent demands for answers to said loaded questions. Or a facetious request to try to understand the subject under discussion . .

Stop hiding behind vague unsubstaniated accusations. If you think i'm guilty of the many things you accuse me (ie propaganda, silly euphemisms, dishonesty, being extremist etc) quote a part of my post that illustrates each of those points, lay out your reasons in a polite and reasoned manner, and then i will respond.

P.S. "My Buddha!!!" Who is it that says that?? Do you also say "morning campers!" when you greet at breakfast?