Sawang Boriboon Volunteers

[cfrmatt]

I am a medic here in the UK, back in January this year I spent time with the Sawang Boriboon volunteers in Pattaya working a number of shifts. I have heard bad stories about these guys, but I have got to say the time spent with the Sawang Boriboon volunteers was a pleasure. I found them very friendly, caring, and committed to their medical role. They have very little equipment and have a basic medical knowledge but yet do a great job. Whilst working with these guys they were willing to learn from my skills and knowledge. Having worked for the ambulance service here in the UK for the past 10 years a lot of our guys could learn a lot from the Sawang Boriboon volunteers as I did. I intend to come back and work with the Sawang Boriboon volunteers again this September but this time bringing some much needed equipment. Some of equipment I intend to bring are two defibrillators, and pulse oximeters. I was so impressed by the Sawang Boriboon volunteers and the way they work and look forward to working and teaching these guys again. With the right skills and equipment these guys will and continue to save lives

Would love to hear your experiences of the Sawang Boriboon volunteers, be it good or bad.

[kicking]

Nice post. Glad to hear of the positive experience. Hopefully this thread doesn't turn south...

[Basil B]

Would be nice if there were better communications and coordination instead of basically receiving calls by word of mouth and having half a dozen teams racing to the same incident.

Would be great if there was an organisation that made its aim to teach all Thais basic first aid.

Would be nice if Thai's while driving were more aware of emergency service vehicles and allowed the to pass.

[cfrmatt]

Would be nice if there were better communications and coordination instead of basically receiving calls by word of mouth and having half a dozen teams racing to the same incident.

Would be great if there was an organisation that made its aim to teach all Thais basic first aid.

Would be nice if Thai's while driving were more aware of emergency service vehicles and allowed the to pass.

I wish drivers in the uk more aware of emergency service vehicles as well, but yes I agree with everthing that you say, sounds like you have done a few shifts...Lets hope the airlines let me bring medical equipment over without charging me the earth.

[hm1973]

Well done for teaching these guys for a while, however I suggest you check the law before you bring over any equipment. The use of defibrilators is only permitted by doctors here in Thailand. Paramedics or Technicians are not permitted to use them. Also as a foreigner you must be careful how much you involve yourself. Basic first aid is fine, but if you assist someone who later dies you could be subject to criminal charges, especially if the family of the deceased realize a foreigner assisted their relative (they may be looking for money).

Just trying to keep it real for you and I am talking from experiences the Tourist Police have had with using a foreign medic. You have to be careful.

[cfrmatt]

Well done for teaching these guys for a while, however I suggest you check the law before you bring over any equipment. The use of defibrilators is only permitted by doctors here in Thailand. Paramedics or Technicians are not permitted to use them. Also as a foreigner you must be careful how much you involve yourself. Basic first aid is fine, but if you assist someone who later dies you could be subject to criminal charges, especially if the family of the deceased realize a foreigner assisted their relative (they may be looking for money).

Just trying to keep it real for you and I am talking from experiences the Tourist Police have had with using a foreign medic. You have to be careful.

Many thanks for the advice looks like I'm going to have to leave the defibrilators at home...Seems mad that only a doctor can use a De-Fib but that Thailand for you I gess??

[MP5]

Well done for teaching these guys for a while, however I suggest you check the law before you bring over any equipment. The use of defibrilators is only permitted by doctors here in Thailand. Paramedics or Technicians are not permitted to use them. Also as a foreigner you must be careful how much you involve yourself. Basic first aid is fine, but if you assist someone who later dies you could be subject to criminal charges, especially if the family of the deceased realize a foreigner assisted their relative (they may be looking for money).

Just trying to keep it real for you and I am talking from experiences the Tourist Police have had with using a foreign medic. You have to be careful.

Many thanks for the advice looks like I'm going to have to leave the defibrilators at home...Seems mad that only a doctor can use a De-Fib but that Thailand for you I gess??

Guys speaking from experience having worked as a paramedic in Thailand and Pattaya the use of ACLS equipment is permitted if one is working for a hospital. The problem Thailand suffers from as far as pre-hospital emergency care goes is there is no national registry.

Howard is right as far as volunteers go but if you are registered with an international body: AREMT, NREMT, British Paramedic Association or possibly an NHS Trust you might be able to get dispensation to operate this equipment. Now you fall into the work permit issue.

I commend you for your thoughts and actions but there are others who have given a great amount of time sweat and donations to the Sawang Booriboon only to be let down later.

Don't get taken for a ride!!

[cfrmatt]

Well done for teaching these guys for a while, however I suggest you check the law before you bring over any equipment. The use of defibrilators is only permitted by doctors here in Thailand. Paramedics or Technicians are not permitted to use them. Also as a foreigner you must be careful how much you involve yourself. Basic first aid is fine, but if you assist someone who later dies you could be subject to criminal charges, especially if the family of the deceased realize a foreigner assisted their relative (they may be looking for money).

Just trying to keep it real for you and I am talking from experiences the Tourist Police have had with using a foreign medic. You have to be careful.

Many thanks for the advice looks like I'm going to have to leave the defibrilators at home...Seems mad that only a doctor can use a De-Fib but that Thailand for you I gess??

Guys speaking from experience having worked as a paramedic in Thailand and Pattaya the use of ACLS equipment is permitted if one is working for a hospital. The problem Thailand suffers from as far as pre-hospital emergency care goes is there is no national registry.

Howard is right as far as volunteers go but if you are registered with an international body: AREMT, NREMT, British Paramedic Association or possibly an NHS Trust you might be able to get dispensation to operate this equipment. Now you fall into the work permit issue.

I commend you for your thoughts and actions but there are others who have given a great amount of time sweat and donations to the Sawang Booriboon only to be let down later.

Don't get taken for a ride!!

Thanks again guys I'm learning more by the second....Do you think that I would be covered by my NHS Trust and if I bring my Instructor certificates with me??

[mark131v]

cfrmatt,

glad to hear someone is giving them some training unfortunatly from what i have seen of them i was far from impressed maybe i saw a bad crew hope so anyway it would be bloody awfull if thay were all so hopeless. I posted this a while back and i havent time to type it again but this was one of my experiences .....

dont post very often so forgive me, back to the point. Who exactly are going to crew these rescue vehicles. Have had a couple of experinces with these rescue types both not good. Iam a UK State Registered Paramedic serving in the Forces during the summer i witnessed an accident in Soi Buikhow in which a guy was hit by a trailer. He was out cold lying on his back with a big crowd of people just stood around looking at him so i went over and maintained his airway and had a quick check of his neck and head. During this i found a bleed on the back of his head and a possible fractured skull. Couple of minutes later the rescue turned up so i tried to hand over to them, was completly ignored. There treatment was probably as dangerous as the accident. They did not check for any injuries at all and instead wrestled the guy into a spinal collar without sizing it up or placing it correctly then forced the guy onto a spinal board even though he was actively fighting them by this stage. Iam not an anally retentive type who always does everything strictly by the book after all all situations are different but i can honestly say that his treatment was shocking and he would have been better off and safer without it

A couple of week ago was in walking street saw the usual fellows larging it up as tourist police trying to look important when i noticed an ambulance with a fallang in uniform sat in the back. Went over and told the guy what i do and enquired as to what qualifacations people require to work on the ambulance at this he started to look a bit uncomfortable. His reply was that if you had some first aid knowledge that was usefull bit disturbing really when you see the amount of RTAs round Pattaya involving bikes and cars etc

In my opinion some of situations these people could be responding to (the guy i spoke to had no real medical training) then they probably are killing or certainly making bad situations worse. The first rule of any doctor or medic is to do no harm without training and regulation it is inevitable that some where along the line that must happen!! Untill the training and regulations regarding total amateurs driving around responding to potentially complex medical emergencys are addresed the rest of the points are moot. Pointless having world class hospitals and surgeons in thailand if some joker has just left you paralysed or dead at the side of the road through not being properly trained or even worse doing the job for the wrong reasons, a yellow jacket and an ambulance does not equal paramedic!! Just my toughts getting people to move out of the way or driving faster on blues does not make for a better service

Mark

[Basil B]

Would be nice if there were better communications and coordination instead of basically receiving calls by word of mouth and having half a dozen teams racing to the same incident.

Would be great if there was an organisation that made its aim to teach all Thais basic first aid.

Would be nice if Thai's while driving were more aware of emergency service vehicles and allowed the to pass.

I wish drivers in the uk more aware of emergency service vehicles as well, but yes I agree with everthing that you say, sounds like you have done a few shifts...Lets hope the airlines let me bring medical equipment over without charging me the earth.

Yes, all voluntary.

[nam-thip]

Sad to say this but.............I hope i never have to call on these people from what i've seen so far.

I've observed them at the scene of a couple of accidents and came to the conclusion they are potentially dangerous with their lack of first aid training.

[barryofthailand]

When you come to Pattaya ask the tourist police to introduce you to Mick. He is also from England, lives in Pattaya and works as a tourist police volunteer, and he is also a Sawang Boriboon Volunteer. he can give you all the do's and don't s about working as a volunteer. See Howard at the mobile tourist police station at the entrance of walking street, and he can put you in touch with Mick.

Barry

Edited May 1, 2010 by barryofthailand

[cfrmatt]

When you come to Pattaya ask the tourist police to introduce you to Mick. He is also from England, lives in Pattaya and works as a tourist police volunteer, and he is also a Sawang Boriboon Volunteer. he can give you all the do's and don't s about working as a volunteer. See Howard at the mobile tourist police station at the entrance of walking street, and he can put you in touch with Mick.

Barry

Many thanks Barry for the advice, I will try and make contact with Mick as soon as I get into Pattaya..I will also try and contact him before I come out to Pattaya then I know what equipment I can leave them with..I will try and contact him by email via the tourist police if thats at all possible

[cfrmatt]

I fully understand and respect people’s concerns about the lack of training and knowledge some of the Sawang Boriboon volunteers have or don’t have, but I have got to say that the guys I worked with did and where willing to learn, which is more than I can say about some people in the UK. I do understand that more harm than good can be done when first aid is not carried out correctly ie C spine injuries ect. But I have found this lack of knowledge seems to be across the board as regards to pre-hospital care. I came across a road traffic accident where the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital Ambulance was in attendance. They walked the casualty across the road then placed him on a spinal board then placed a collar on him. I could not believe what I was seeing as one of the crew members had the word Paramedic on his shirt which I doubt very much he was. My point being if this practise is being carried out by so called professionals then what chance do the likes of the Sawang Boriboon volunteers have? I feel that more should be done in this area of Pre-Hospital care and if there were not so many restrictions on what you can or cannot do then maybe more people would be willing to help train and donate equipment. My friends mother was on holiday in Pattaya and suffered a heart attack and died two years ago, hence the reason I want to help train these guys because one day that could be me who needs there help. But some help is better than no help and there is the matter of life over limb.

Thank you so much for everyone’s advice on this matter please keep it coming.

[mark131v]

I fully understand and respect people’s concerns about the lack of training and knowledge some of the Sawang Boriboon volunteers have or don’t have, but I have got to say that the guys I worked with did and where willing to learn, which is more than I can say about some people in the UK. I do understand that more harm than good can be done when first aid is not carried out correctly ie C spine injuries ect. But I have found this lack of knowledge seems to be across the board as regards to pre-hospital care. I came across a road traffic accident where the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital Ambulance was in attendance. They walked the casualty across the road then placed him on a spinal board then placed a collar on him. I could not believe what I was seeing as one of the crew members had the word Paramedic on his shirt which I doubt very much he was. My point being if this practise is being carried out by so called professionals then what chance do the likes of the Sawang Boriboon volunteers have? I feel that more should be done in this area of Pre-Hospital care and if there were not so many restrictions on what you can or cannot do then maybe more people would be willing to help train and donate equipment. My friends mother was on holiday in Pattaya and suffered a heart attack and died two years ago, hence the reason I want to help train these guys because one day that could be me who needs there help. But some help is better than no help and there is the matter of life over limb.

Thank you so much for everyone’s advice on this matter please keep it coming.

cfrmatt

I applaud what you are trying to do reference getting these guys some training but as it stands they are dangerous and I really wouldnt want that crew I saw any where near me if me or my family were injured. I do believe sometimes they absolutely have to be doing serious damage an enthusiastic amateur at serious RTC is a bad combination.

In the UK we have Ghouls and ambulance chasers I dont know whether it is a uniform thing or not but i have met some well dodgy St Johns and other EMT type people stands to reason they must also have people with strange motives in thailand too.

Dont get me wrong I believe that given the right training you can make anybody usefull but if the system wont allow it (the ruling on defibs makes that point) then all you have is a bunch of amateurs driving fast on blues and until that is sorted and they are given some kind of screening and certifiable training they are dangerous.

Life over limb is one thing but manhandling a semi conscious victim into an unsized collar then tying him onto a backboard with absolutely no idea what his injuries are is absolutely unacceptable no matter which way you look at it so no i dont agree that some help is better than none. His treatment could have killed him he had blood coming out of his ears and a boggy patch on the back of his head while they were fighting him onto the board. He would have been safer in the back of a baht bus

Iam also curious about why a fallang with no real medical experience or training should be allowed to ride around on an ambulance it does not happen in the west for good reason victims are in a vulnerable position and again i do not understand the motives.

I do not know what the answer is so I will continue trying not to have an accident and next time i will purchase some more amulets

Mark