Uk Settlement Visa

[TiggerFish]

Hi, I've read many posts in this forum and picked up many useful tips, thanks to all of the contributors.

This is my first post so please forgive if I have missed anything obvious.

This is a bit of a long post, I have tried to keep it short, honest.

First a bit of background.

We first met Dec 2008, I returned to Visit for 10 days in March 2009, 10 days in June 2009 and 3 weeks in Oct 2009.

During the October visit we applied for and got a 6 month visit visa for her. She returned with me to the UK at the end of that visit stayed until April.

We both returned to Thailand where I stayed for 4 weeks and we got married (Village style, not legally recognised).

My Wife has never been legally married before and has a seven year old son, the biological father of the son has a new "wife" and children and does not care for my wifes (our) son. When she stayed with me in England my wifes parents cared for him.

The current plan is for me to return at the end of this month get married officially and apply for a settlement visa for my wife and step son all in the one trip.

I have a few questions which I would like to run by those of you with previous experience.

1. Any potential pit falls with getting married (Legally) and immediately applying for a Visa? We have evidence to support all of my claims above regarding when we met, visits, etc.

2. Is there any reason we can't apply for a visa for my step son at the same time? I don't want to split them up again and I want to take an active parenting role as soon as possible.

3. If possible I'd like to get this done in a short visit as I only get so much holiday in any one year and I'm not sure about changing her family name, is this required ? If we get married back in her home town she can apparently get a new ID card the same day but the passport would take longer.

4. This is my current plan (as much as you can plan anything in Thailand), is it reasonable or are we trying to get too much done too quickly?

Sun I arrive, meet wife in Bangkok.

Mon Submit Freedom of Affirmation to Marry to the UK Embassy

Mon Get TB test for wife

Tue Collect Freedom of Affirmation to Marry from the UK Embassy

Tue Get Freedom of Affirmation to Marry Translated

Tue Submit/Collect Affirmation to Marry to/from Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs, pay for same day service.

Tue Go to wifes home town.

Wed Get married, change ID card.

Wed Return to Bangkok with wife and step son.

Thur Head for Bang Na to change the name in /apply for a new passport for my wife and apply for a passport for my step son.

Tue Collect wifes and step sons passports.

Tue Apply for the Visas.

5. If my wife has to have a new passport will she get the old returned one for reference as it has the UK visit visa which I would like to submit as evidence of her time in the the UK.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

[sumrit]

1. Any potential pit falls with getting married (Legally) and immediately applying for a Visa? We have evidence to support all of my claims above regarding when we met, visits, etc.

None whatsoever

2. Is there any reason we can't apply for a visa for my step son at the same time? I don't want to split them up again and I want to take an active parenting role as soon as possible.

No problems, in fact (assuming your stepson lives with his mother) it'll probably be better because you won't have to show that she maintains sole responsibility whilst living in the UK as you would if you applied at a later date. Just make sure that, as well as custody, you do supply as much evidence as possible of sole responsibility.

3. If possible I'd like to get this done in a short visit as I only get so much holiday in any one year and I'm not sure about changing her family name, is this required ? If we get married back in her home town she can apparently get a new ID card the same day but the passport would take longer.

If my wife has to have a new passport will she get the old returned one for reference as it has the UK visit visa which I would like to submit as evidence of her time in the the UK.

She doesn't have to change her family name. It won't make any difference to her coming to the UK and she can still use your surname for everyday life there, although she'd have to use her name on anything official.

If she does decide to change her name, unless things have changed at Bang Na in the last eighteen months, providing she goes to the passport office first thing in the morning she'll be able to collect her new passport the same afternoon.

And yes, she'll be given her old passport back when she collects her new one.

4. This is my current plan (as much as you can plan anything in Thailand), is it reasonable or are we trying to get too much done too quickly?

Sun I arrive, meet wife in Bangkok.

Mon Submit Freedom of Affirmation to Marry to the UK Embassy

Mon Get TB test for wife

Tue Collect Freedom of Affirmation to Marry from the UK Embassy

Tue Get Freedom of Affirmation to Marry Translated

Tue Submit/Collect Affirmation to Marry to/from Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs, pay for same day service.

Tue Go to wifes home town.

Wed Get married, change ID card.

Wed Return to Bangkok with wife and step son.

Thur Head for Bang Na to change the name in /apply for a new passport for my wife and apply for a passport for my step son.

Tue Collect wifes and step sons passports.

Tue Apply for the Visas.

If her xray is clear she will be issued with her certificate the same afternoon. If, however, there is anything on the xray that the doctor isn't happy with she'll have to stay in Bangkok and attend the IOM clinic on four consecutive early mornings to provide a sputum sample for analysis. Providing they are clear she'll get the certificate a day or two later.

So, if possible, as you're on such a tight schedule it would be advisable for your wife to Bangkok for the TB test two/three weeks before you arrive just in case she has to do the sputum test as well.

Good Luck.

[7by7]

2. Is there any reason we can't apply for a visa for my step son at the same time? I don't want to split them up again and I want to take an active parenting role as soon as possible.

No problems, in fact (assuming your stepson lives with his mother) it'll probably be better because you won't have to show that she maintains sole responsibility whilst living in the UK as you would if you applied at a later date. Just make sure that, as well as custody, you do supply as much evidence as possible of sole responsibility.

If mother and child are, and have been, living together, then sole responsibility is usually taken as read by the ECO. It is, for example, difficult to provide evidence of contact with someone who lives in the same house.

It is usually only when they have been living apart that there can be problems. Although you should provide evidence that she kept in contact with the child, and provided financial support if she did, while she was in the UK staying with you.

A sole custody document is not legally required, but does add weight to the application and is strongly recommended.

Remember that you will have to complete two separate application forms and pay two fees; although the applications can be submitted together using the same evidence folder.

[stament]

2. Is there any reason we can't apply for a visa for my step son at the same time? I don't want to split them up again and I want to take an active parenting role as soon as possible.

No problems, in fact (assuming your stepson lives with his mother) it'll probably be better because you won't have to show that she maintains sole responsibility whilst living in the UK as you would if you applied at a later date. Just make sure that, as well as custody, you do supply as much evidence as possible of sole responsibility.

If mother and child are, and have been, living together, then sole responsibility is usually taken as read by the ECO. It is, for example, difficult to provide evidence of contact with someone who lives in the same house.

It is usually only when they have been living apart that there can be problems. Although you should provide evidence that she kept in contact with the child, and provided financial support if she did, while she was in the UK staying with you.

A sole custody document is not legally required, but does add weight to the application and is strongly recommended.

Remember that you will have to complete two separate application forms and pay two fees; although the applications can be submitted together using the same evidence folder.

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I am in a similar situation. My wife has a 3 yr old son and I am in the process of preparing UK settlement applications for them both.

As regards the above point living together and sole responsibility. What documents can assist with this? I was thinking perhaps a letter from the school. My wife is just waiting on the sole custody paper from the court, but what other documentary evidence can we provide to support the application of sole responsibility? I was thinking perhaps a signed letter from the father stating that he's had no part in raising his son.

Thanks

[7by7]

The wife's not here to ask, and I'm not sure; but don't children appear in the Tabien Bahn (blue book)?

If so, then this is obviously sufficient evidence that the child lives with his mother.

When my wife and step-daughter successfully applied we certainly did not provide any evidence of sole responsibility other than the sole custody document and, I think, the Tabien Bahn. This was 10 years ago, but I don't think the requirements have changed much in this area.

[chongam]

If her xray is clear she will be issued with her certificate the same afternoon. If, however, there is anything on the xray that the doctor isn't happy with she'll have to stay in Bangkok and attend the IOM clinic on four consecutive early mornings to provide a sputum sample for analysis. Providing they are clear she'll get the certificate a day or two later.

So, if possible, as you're on such a tight schedule it would be advisable for your wife to Bangkok for the TB test two/three weeks before you arrive just in case she has to do the sputum test as well.

Good Luck.

Actually it takes up to 2 months to test sputum samples----my wife had TB, just like about 10% of the Thai poulation, and if she has it, it can take up to 2 years to clear up!! (took my wife 9 months) just over a year altogether, so the very first thing to do when applying for a visa for longer than 6 months, is to get tested---sorry sound negative, but get tested asap---then you can start treatment, which, by the way is free

[stament]

The wife's not here to ask, and I'm not sure; but don't children appear in the Tabien Bahn (blue book)?

If so, then this is obviously sufficient evidence that the child lives with his mother.

When my wife and step-daughter successfully applied we certainly did not provide any evidence of sole responsibility other than the sole custody document and, I think, the Tabien Bahn. This was 10 years ago, but I don't think the requirements have changed much in this area.

Thanks for insight. I must say reading on here I was under the impression that sole responsibility involved a lot more? Am I missing something?

Will ask about the blue book, first I've heard of it.

Thanks

[the scouser]

Sole responsibility is to be decided upon who, in fact, provides the direction and control in a child's life. It's not a matter to be decided only between the parents, but perhaps, the parent and the child's carer. If more than one person (or entity, e.g. a boarding school) is providing the direction and control, then responsibility is shared and not sole, and the visa application could fall to be refused.

However, if a child and the sponsoring parent both appear on the same tabien bahn to the exclusion of the other parent, then sole responsibility is effectively a given: the parent and child live at the same house and, of course, the former would look after the latter. But, this only applies where the sponsoring parent and child are applying for visas at the same time. Where the sponsoring parent has already spent a period of time in the UK whilst the child has continued to be in the indigenous country, the child must have, by definition, been cared for by another person, and it is in such instances that sole responsibility might be questioned.

Scouse.

[sumrit]

Actually it takes up to 2 months to test sputum samples----my wife had TB, just like about 10% of the Thai poulation, and if she has it, it can take up to 2 years to clear up!! (took my wife 9 months) just over a year altogether, so the very first thing to do when applying for a visa for longer than 6 months, is to get tested---sorry sound negative, but get tested asap---then you can start treatment, which, by the way is free

Only in a very, very few cases, for the vast majority of people who's xrays are 'suspect' but who don't have TB a certificate is given after four consecutive days of sputum tests. This happened to both my wife and a friends wife last year. In my wife's case she had 'TB like' scarring on one lung show up on her xray, but the sputum tests fail to detect any TB and the IOM doctor decided the scarring was down to an unrelated childhood lung infection. And at both times all the other people providing sputum tests in the same sessions were also given the all clear at the end of the four days.

Incidentally, both I and my father in law have also had TB so I do know just a little bit about it. From the sputum test I gave it actually took the TB three days to grow sufficiently in culture dishes in the laboratory for the doctors to confirm I had TB.

Unless somebody has a 'drug resistant' form of the disease TB would normally be cured with a six month course of antibiotic drugs. They would actually become non contagious after being on the course of medication for about two weeks and can feel fine within one/two months but they must complete the full course of drug treatment. Failure to complete the course can allow the TB to become drug resistant and it's then much more difficult to cure, needing much more powerful antibiotics, plus it can then take longer to cure (which is the 'up to two years' you mention).

TB is actually very difficult to catch. The vast majority of people who come into contact with a sufferer don't catch it, although it is also possible for somebody to be infected, only to have it lie dormant in their body, sometimes for several years, before showing any symptoms.

Another interesting point is that the TB inoculations most of us had when we were at school (in the UK) are only about 80% effective. So if, like me, you had the jab at school it doesn't mean you're safe, it's sill possible for you to catch TB.

[chongam]

Thanks for your explanation, yes, the first thing I did was to get tested and although I was living with my wife in Thailand, I was not infected, my wife also sufered terrible side effects to the treatment, including hair loss!!

[7by7]

Thanks for insight. I must say reading on here I was under the impression that sole responsibility involved a lot more? Am I missing something?

All the cases reported on here where there has been difficulty over establishing sole responsibility are when parent and child have been separated. Usually because the parent has been living in the UK for some time and they now wish the child to join them.

I have never heard of any difficulty in this area where parent and child are applying together and the parent has sole custody.

I appreciate that everyone's circumstances are different, and there may be valid reasons why it is simply not possible, but in my view it is best for parent and child to apply at the same time. Not only to avoid separating them, but also to avoid future difficulties in this area.

Scouse, are you really saying that an application could be refused simply because the child has been attending boarding school?

[stament]

Sole responsibility is to be decided upon who, in fact, provides the direction and control in a child's life. It's not a matter to be decided only between the parents, but perhaps, the parent and the child's carer. If more than one person (or entity, e.g. a boarding school) is providing the direction and control, then responsibility is shared and not sole, and the visa application could fall to be refused.

However, if a child and the sponsoring parent both appear on the same tabien bahn to the exclusion of the other parent, then sole responsibility is effectively a given: the parent and child live at the same house and, of course, the former would look after the latter. But, this only applies where the sponsoring parent and child are applying for visas at the same time. Where the sponsoring parent has already spent a period of time in the UK whilst the child has continued to be in the indigenous country, the child must have, by definition, been cared for by another person, and it is in such instances that sole responsibility might be questioned.

Scouse.

Many thanks for clearing that up in my mind. I obviously misinterpreted other threads as my wife and her son do live together (as per the blue book) and also she will have the sole custody order in her mitts next week. Hopefully if the ECO is then satisfied with mine and my wife's relationship and grants the settlement visa, then the settlement visa for her son should be a fomality.

Once again many thanks for your invaluable advice Scouse and 7by7

Edited June 6, 2010 by stament

[TiggerFish]

Thanks for the help and advice

Unfortunately it's not going to be practicle getting my wife to go for a TB test before I arrive, we'll just have to keep our fingers crossed and deal with what comes up. It's been useful to hear of what we might have to go through though.

Regarding my wifes sole resposibility for my stepson we are going to try with 1. Custody document from the local Amphur. 2. Letter from his School and 3. Tabien Bahn (Blue book, or book about Family as my wife calls it).

Fortunately we also have records of daily calls back to Thailand and regular money transfers for when my wife spent six months in the UK with me.

Just under two weeks before I fly out now and I will probably be spending each spare moment I have researching/preparing/checking for the visa applications, at least I get to see them both at the end of this part.

Then the long wait, from what I read on this forum at the moment processing times are slow.

Good luck to all that are in the same situation we are, thanks yet again to those of you that have been through this and are in a good position to give advice.

[GarudaThai]

Once you are married it is also worth depositing your foreign marriage certificate with the General Registry Office (England / Scotland / Northern Ireland) in the UK. This means that if you ever lose your marriage certifiicate you can get an official UK recognised document - which has it's uses believe me! Information from the British Embassy Bangkok Recording a marriage in the UK

Guidance for British Nationals wishing to marry in Thailand: Royal Thai Embassy in London, United Kingdom

How to register a marriage - form the UK Embassy Bangkok How to register a marriage

Schedule looks feasible but remember you are required to have been resident in Thailand for at least three days before you marry.

[7by7]

Personally, I do not think it is worth depositing a copy of your Thai marriage certificate with the GRO and paying whatever the current fee for doing so is.. It does not mean that you can get "an official UK recognised document." The original Thai certificate is officially recognised in the UK. If you did deposit a copy with the GRO and then later asked for a copy; that's exactly what you'd get; a copy of your Thai marriage certificate.

Maybe useful if you've lost the original and need a copy whilst in the UK and so can't get one from the ampur where you registered the marriage; but that's it, as far as I'm concerned. We haven't bothered, and I can't think of anyone we know, personally or electronically, who has.

What will be very useful, essential even, in the UK is a certified translation of the marriage certificate from a licensed translators. This, together with the original if necessary, can then be used for any purpose in the UK where a marriage certificate is required.

[stament]

What will be very useful, essential even, in the UK is a certified translation of the marriage certificate from a licensed translators. This, together with the original if necessary, can then be used for any purpose in the UK where a marriage certificate is required.

Interesting point. Am I right in saying to get it certified the translation needs to go to the ministry? Any idea roughly how much one should expect to pay for translation and certification? I'd prefer my wife to take it to the ministry itself if possible incase the translation service doesn't give an "authentic" one as sometimes happens with unscrupulous people.

On another note, what other documents would you recommend to have translated into English that would be needed in England. I was thinking of marriage certificate. Would divorce certificate or birth certificate for wife or her son be needed, or would their passports suffice in England?

Sorry to be awkward I'm just trying to cover for all eventualities.

Thanks again for great advice

[paully]

Personally, I do not think it is worth depositing a copy of your Thai marriage certificate with the GRO and paying whatever the current fee for doing so is. It does not mean that you can get "an official UK recognised document." The original Thai certificate is officially recognised in the UK.

What will be very useful, essential even, in the UK is a certified translation of the marriage certificate from a licensed translators. This, together with the original if necessary, can then be used for any purpose in the UK where a marriage certificate is required.

Agreed, there is no need whatever to 'deposit' a copy of the Thai marriage certificate; it adds precisely nothing to its validity or legality in the UK. Certified translation into English is the necessary step: the translation has to be stamped by the Embassy and the Thai MFA and the original Thai certificate exhibited.

[7by7]

the translation has to be stamped by the Embassy and the Thai MFA

Not sure about this; the embassy simply says

You may wish to commission a “sworn translation” of the marriage certificate from license translators, so that you can use the document for legal purposes in the U.K.

Ours has a stamp placed by the translation office, with their licence number, certifying that it's a true translation; no verification from the embassy or MFA. This was done 10 years ago, but we've never had a problem.

Stament, we translated our marriage certificate, wife and step-daughter's birth certificate and the custody order for step- daughter. Although in the UK their passports have sufficed for proof of ID, age etc.