New Work Permit For Teaching

[nobber9999]

I am from the UK and live in Korat. I am 53, married to a Thai and have just renewed my 12 months visa extension but that's where the easy bit ends. A local College wants me to work for them as an English Teacher starting 01/07/10 which I have accepted as its quite good pay and not many hours. I have never had a work permit before but the College have said they take care of all of that. However, the local permit office have told the College that it could take 4 to 6 weeks to issue and they suggested that the College takes me on on a hourly rate in the interim time. The other problem is of course that as I will not be issued with a formal contract till the start of the new College intake year. Having taken 50 steps back, 10 forward and three to the side I am still left thinking that this is just the usual mess the Authorities make of most things here. The Immigration Department told me I "cannot work", at all, not even voluntarily without a permit, the permit office have told the College that I can if I am paid hourly. Has anyone any clues whatsoever as the last thing I want is to have a visit from the Police telling me I'm working illegally! Do I physically need a piece of paper in my grubby little mit or do I just sit back and let the College do the admin bit and just hope its all cosha? BTW, this is a Vocational College so I am not sure if it comes under the strict vetting required by the normal run of the mill schools.

Anyway, I hope someone can flash a torch down that never ending Thai tunnel in the hope that I may reach the light before the U11's run out!!!!!

[guavagirl]

You must have a work permit to work. No if and or buts. However, in many situations (like resort work) the company pays the employee a salary while they wait for the completion of the work permit.

I would listen to immigration as they are the ones that can fine or deport you if you are caught working without a permit.

[thaicbr]

If you are sure that the paperwork has been put in then it should not be a problem. As you know the law and reality do not often converge here in Thailand. Most teachers have to go through this. Just be sure the paperwork has been sent in.

[TerryLH]

When the school applies for the WP, you'll get a receipt. It's WP3. It shows you've applied for the WP and are just waiting for it to be issued.

With a WP3, most Labor Offices usually say you can work.

Why are you even talking to immigration about this?

[mizzi39]

4-6 weeks seems like an awfully long time to wait for a work permit. My work permit expired this year before I had time to extend it for another year, because i was waiting for a document from the area educational office, which did not come through before taking my family to the states for vacation. I had to get a new WP a few weeks ago which took one day.

Whether you are working for the college and getting paid hourly, or under contract and getting paid monthly, the college should be able to sort out the paperwork, so you can work legally. Chok dee.

Edited June 17, 2010 by mizzi39

[nobber9999]

Thanks for your input however the main point here is that it's the immigration dept., which can have you arrested for not having the correct paperwork and it is also them who can kick you out of the Country, throw you in jail or have a big fine imposed on you. As I do not want any of these options I chose to double check with them.

My problem is that although the school are trying to sort this out for me, they keep running into hurdles which the Korat Dept of Work keep putting in the way. One other thing to compound the problem is that I am awaiting the IO to confirm that they are now in a position to stamp my passport with a permit to stay. In the usual manner. they told my wife that I have the wrong visa as I cannot work on a married visa (cock and bull comes to mind), I told my wife to speak to them again and a sort of apology was given for duff info!! Anyway, I now know that if you ask any Thai which came first, the chicken or the egg, the answer is of course a Chang (maybe a white one). There is some sort of rule that the Works Office will only issue a WP up till expiry of the extension in the passport and after that you have to renew again and no doubt have a thought of deja vous!.

Anyway, this is my reasoning behind speaking to IO and had I been a newcomer to Thailand and speaking to the Authorities I would be running round like a headless chicken by now.......

[Slip]

In my experience it's the norm for teachers to work while their paperwork is being sorted out. (Something like 20 teachers in my school have been required to in the last few years- i.e all new teachers). Doesn't make it any more legal unfortunately, but you would be pretty unlucky to get nailed.

[Arkady]

Whatever anyone tells you, you must have a work permit specifying the correct job, title and address of the work place to work legally, regardless of whether any remuneration is paid. The working of aliens is covered by the Working of Aliens Act of 2008 which doesn't list any of the special situations that some people seem to have tried to represent to you. This is the law that will apply if you are arrested by Immigration. Hearsay, common practice and regulations that exist in some one's imagination will not be taken into account.

[asiawatcher]

Law is clear - if you receive remuneration that is deemed work. No work permit means you get nailed. But don't despair.

The person who told you - get a name and a recording from them - keep the tape.

Make the application with the schools endorsement letters, and then you are in the grey area - waiting but working. The fact a Govt representative from the Labour Dept endorses your working means you can plead 'plausible denial'.

All else - just go for it - the fine for working without a permit is Baht 2,000and a ride to the airport!

Good luck.

[Mario2008]

The law doesn't make a distinction between getting paid or not. It says that point doesn't matter. A volunteer also needs a work permit.

[Arkady]

Although it is unfortunate for genuine volunteers, it stands to reason that financial remuneration is not required for an activity to qualify as work under the Working of Aliens Act. Otherwise, it would be too easy for people to work for cash and claim they hadn't received anything.

I don't really understand the insistence of getting confirmation of what the Labour Dept official erroneously said. Like many Thai government officials he is obviously ignorant of the laws and regulations that effect his day to day job. Even a signed avidavit from him confirming he really said that would not help you, if you got arrested. Of course many people work while waiting for work permits and the vast majority are not caught but you need to be aware of the ramifications, if you end up as one of the unlucky statistics. Most are caught because some one has grudge against the employer and tips off Immigration there are foreigners working illegally in such and such a business. Sometimes the foreigners turn out to have work permits or even, as reported once in TV, to be a farang with Thai nationality. Immigration is obliged by law to investigate all such complaints.

[sirchai]

You must have a work permit to work. No if and or buts. However, in many situations (like resort work) the company pays the employee a salary while they wait for the completion of the work permit.

I would listen to immigration as they are the ones that can fine or deport you if you are caught working without a permit.

I guess the only problem is that your name has to be on the Teachers’ Council of Thailand’s list. All foreigners working at your institution have to be on that list.

It could be done in less than a week, please talk to the administration of your English department and chock dee.

Hope you’ll get it sorted out ASAP.

[on-on]

Thanks for your input however the main point here is that it's the immigration dept., which can have you arrested for not having the correct paperwork and it is also them who can kick you out of the Country, throw you in jail or have a big fine imposed on you. As I do not want any of these options I chose to double check with them.

While this is true, they're not generally on the lookout for labor violations. This is the same reason that they never have any idea what your work permit status is at the airport. I go in and out with a work permit and the only times I've been asked anything have been whether I have a work permit, which I did. I pretended not to understand just to see what they'd say and the response was, "please apply your permit as soon you can." They'd have to raid the school in Nowheresville, Korat looking for people like you, which seems a bit unlikely. Listen to the people telling you how it's actually done and not the people who enjoy quoting the law. We all know what the law is, the unofficial motto of the visa subforum is "THE ANSWER TO ALL QUESTIONS IS: LEAVE THE COUNTRY OR GO TO JAIL". The interesting and educational info is in how it's actually done. And how it's actually done does not at all reflect the law that is being quoted over and over. At this point in the thread you've heard both - you know the law and you know how it's actually done. You just have to choose.

There are, regardless of what people tell you, about fifty million ifs, ands or buts when it comes to working in Thailand and nothing is clear at all about the on-the-ground reality, which changes in application based on time of day and location. As someone said, you'd have to be pretty unlucky to get nailed for working while your paperwork's in. And, as you're finding out, almost every single person who has worked in any industry here (whether it's on expat package with a multinational or as a teacher) has done that at some point because the regulations simply don't permit any other sensible arrangement. Answered a work email without a work permit? Oh God, they'll blacklist you! Terminated at 23:59? Leave that day or they'll put you in jail! Helped clean up the streets without a work permit? Oh God they're going to send DSI after you! THE LAW SAYS SO.

This is too often how Thai Visa's denizens advise people. The grey areas and corruption exist precisely because the laws and regulations cannot logically function as written - it goes hand in hand. You'll be fine, most likely, picking the common sense option, whatever that is for you - unless, of course, you're one of the unlucky punters of Thai Visa who has apparently made an enemy of everyone in the vicinity and who has Thai neighbors peering through the blinds at you and "me missus" eagerly looking for labor violations so that they can rush down and report you and have you deported which, according to many Thai Visa members, is the national pastime of Thailand.

Best of luck with your new job! Or not! Either way, I hope you work things out