Peanut Plants As Cow Food

[chownah]

I'm trying to summon up RandomChances here. I know that you said you were growing some peanuts and that you were going to use the plant part as fodder....have you got results yet and how did it go?

[RamdomChances]

I'm trying to summon up RandomChances here.  I know that you said you were growing some peanuts and that you were going to use the plant part as fodder....have you got results yet and how did it go?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The peanuts will be picked the end of this month. We use a lot of peanut plant already, we just buy it in (have to pick-up ourselfs) or are given it.

Its best when used as a supplement about 30% peanut plant to rice straw. If they eat too much the cows can develop diarrea, although this problem seems to go away with dried "peanut hay" its up to 18% protien so should be good for beef cows as well.

Usually when we have peanut to give the cows the milk yeild increases initaly but drops off after a few days (I dont usually have enough for more than 4-5 days at a time as they will go through a ton a day of the stuff). I would'nt recomend it for young calfs either.

RC

[chownah]

I'm trying to summon up RandomChances here.  I know that you said you were growing some peanuts and that you were going to use the plant part as fodder....have you got results yet and how did it go?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The peanuts will be picked the end of this month. We use a lot of peanut plant already, we just buy it in (have to pick-up ourselfs) or are given it.

Its best when used as a supplement about 30% peanut plant to rice straw. If they eat too much the cows can develop diarrea, although this problem seems to go away with dried "peanut hay" its up to 18% protien so should be good for beef cows as well.

Usually when we have peanut to give the cows the milk yeild increases initaly but drops off after a few days (I dont usually have enough for more than 4-5 days at a time as they will go through a ton a day of the stuff). I would'nt recomend it for young calfs either.

RC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the info. I grew about a dozen square meters of peanuts just to see what they would do...they did alright but when the rain came some of the leaves started to get black...mildew or something...did yours react this way when the rain came? I fed some to the local cows and they didn't seem to like it so much...perhaps the mildew tastes bad. When I dried some of the plants it turned really dark..almost black...I was surprised since all the hay of any type I've seen has been green....haven't tried to feed any of this to the cows. Still got a good supply of nuts to distribute to everyone in the family. I've got some plots that have sandier soil I'm going to try a larger plot there next. If you remember, let me know how it goes when you harvest.

Edited July 13, 2005 by chownah

[RamdomChances]

Thanks for the info. I grew about a dozen square meters of peanuts just to see what they would do...they did alright but when the rain came some of the leaves started to get black...mildew or something...did yours react this way when the rain came? I fed some to the local cows and they didn't seem to like it so much...perhaps the mildew tastes bad. When I dried some of the plants it turned really dark..almost black...I was surprised since all the hay of any type I've seen has been green....haven't tried to feed any of this to the cows. Still got a good supply of nuts to distribute to everyone in the family. I've got some plots that have sandier soil I'm going to try a larger plot there next. If you remember, let me know how it goes when you harvest.

Yea they get a sort of mold on them you have to spray about 2-3 weeks after planting, we did one spray to kill the mold and another to kill all the grass growing, cant remember the name now, but I'll try and find out. Its not expensive I think it worked out about 1500 bhat for 10 rai (thats both sprayings).

They have been getting around 5000 bhat a rai from peanuts at the moment, Should know the end of the month. They like well drained soil, I'm going for 1 more crop after this one and then will see if I can sort something out with irrigation after that as you get a lot more for them in the dry season. The type we are growing is ready for picking after 75 days so you can get 2 crops in during wet season easy.

Did you spread then to dry them or just stack them up, its best spreading them first, but they dont keep that well espesialy this time of year . We only ever keep ours for about 4-5 days the cows love it, prehaps you've got "fussy" cows

[chownah]

Yea they get a sort of mold on them you have to spray about 2-3 weeks after planting, we did one spray to kill the mold and another to kill all the grass growing, cant remember the name now, but I'll try and find out. Its not expensive I think it worked out about 1500 bhat for 10 rai (thats both sprayings).

They have been getting around 5000 bhat a rai from peanuts at the moment, Should know the end of the month. They like well drained soil, I'm going for 1 more crop after this one and then will see if I can sort something out with irrigation after that as you get a lot more for them in the dry season. The type we are growing is ready for picking after 75 days so you can get 2 crops in during wet season easy.

Did you spread then to dry them or just stack them up, its best spreading them first, but they dont keep that well espesialy this time of year . We only ever keep ours for about 4-5 days the cows love it, prehaps you've got "fussy" cows

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For drying I just stacked them into a two wheel push cart (rot ken) so they were stacked a bit but not compacted at all....I just did a few as an experiment...I haven't tried feeding these yet...one of my helpers needed the cart and just threw them on the ground and the chickens have been scratching through it so who knows what I've got now. It was the fresh plants that the cows didn't seem to like. I pulled up the plants and left the roots and immature nuts on and I washed off most of the dirt....have you fed whole plants...roots and all? When I fed the plants one of the cows seemed to taste one and then spit it out which would mean definitely a dislike rather than a lack of interest.

By the way, have you always been RamdomChances or did you used to be RandomChances?

[RamdomChances]

For drying I just stacked them into a two wheel push cart (rot ken) so they were stacked a bit but not compacted at all....I just did a few as an experiment...I haven't tried feeding these yet...one of my helpers needed the cart and just threw them on the ground and the chickens have been scratching through it so who knows what I've got now.

I'd leave those ones the chickens have been through, we have'nt even got any chickens...got rid of our well before even the bird flu got here. I saw no point in taking even the slightest chance that a 3-40,000 bhat cow would catch something form a 100 bhat chicken so they all went shortly after opening the farm.

It was the fresh plants that the cows didn't seem to like. I pulled up the plants and left the roots and immature nuts on and I washed off most of the dirt....have you fed whole plants...roots and all? When I fed the plants one of the cows seemed to taste one and then spit it out which would mean definitely a dislike rather than a lack of interest.

Yea we feed outs the whole plant, roots, imature nuts (there are usually some left on) dirt...everything, they love it my neigbour has beef cows and he feeds them the same..no problems, unless yours was moldy. It's best to spread them to dry then stack them, you loose a lot of the leaves though but if keept dry will keep for quite a while, once they are wet they seem to deteriate rapidly. Storage is my big problem with them as I can get a glut of them now but they wont keep as I've no where dry to keep the quantities that I need.

By the way, have you always been RamdomChances or did you used to be RandomChances?

Is always been Ramdom, a miss-type as it should of been Random....by the way have you always been chownah or did you used to be....... oh never mind

[nightcruiser]

For drying I just stacked them into a two wheel push cart (rot ken) so they were stacked a bit but not compacted at all....I just did a few as an experiment...I haven't tried feeding these yet...one of my helpers needed the cart and just threw them on the ground and the chickens have been scratching through it so who knows what I've got now.

I'd leave those ones the chickens have been through, we have'nt even got any chickens...got rid of our well before even the bird flu got here. I saw no point in taking even the slightest chance that a 3-40,000 bhat cow would catch something form a 100 bhat chicken so they all went shortly after opening the farm.

It was the fresh plants that the cows didn't seem to like. I pulled up the plants and left the roots and immature nuts on and I washed off most of the dirt....have you fed whole plants...roots and all? When I fed the plants one of the cows seemed to taste one and then spit it out which would mean definitely a dislike rather than a lack of interest.

Yea we feed outs the whole plant, roots, imature nuts (there are usually some left on) dirt...everything, they love it my neigbour has beef cows and he feeds them the same..no problems, unless yours was moldy. It's best to spread them to dry then stack them, you loose a lot of the leaves though but if keept dry will keep for quite a while, once they are wet they seem to deteriate rapidly. Storage is my big problem with them as I can get a glut of them now but they wont keep as I've no where dry to keep the quantities that I need.

By the way, have you always been RamdomChances or did you used to be RandomChances?

Is always been Ramdom, a miss-type as it should of been Random....by the way have you always been chownah or did you used to be....... oh never mind

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dont try growing a deep diver peanut, its got a bad smell about it.

[RamdomChances]

If you remember, let me know how it goes when you harvest.

I remembered

Well it turns out it was more like 7 Rai not ten and we made quite a few mistakes growing it so the crop was not that good, anyway here's a run down

Seed - 6000

Ploughing, planting - 3500

Fertiliser - 1000

Picking - 10000

Total cost - 22500

Sale (4 gain@9000) - 36000

Profit- 13500 or about 2000 bhat/rai

Some measurments, it's usually worked out by volume not weight :-

Tang (bucket of set size)

Ga Sop (big hessian sacks) = 6 Tang

Gean = 15 Ga Sop approx 90-100 tang

Most farms were getting nearly 1 Gean/rai we got just over half. We did not spray nearly enough most farms this year sprayed Insectiside/fungiside/weedkiller about 6 times we only did two and as the land was used to grow corn previously we had a lot of weeds and lost a lot to mold. We were quite late in the year to be planting, if we were about 2 weeks earlier we would of gotten 11,000/Gean but as it was we were lucky to get 9,000. The original seed bought was of poor quality (we just bought some off a neibour) but at least it was cheap

Picking is payed by quantity 25 bhat/tang or 2500/Gean. All the ploughing (2 times one 3 one 7 disc's) spraying, planting and picking was contracted out. The good thing about it is that you can get an other crop in as its only 75 days growing (red peanuts, white is 90) and the second crop is usually more expensive (around 12,000bhat/gain). As a lot of farmers wont plant the second crop (there is a risk that the rain will finnish early and its not a cheap crop to plant.

We've already planted the second crop this time 30 rai and bought much better seed I can see why a lot more farmers dont do this as its a fair outlay the 30 rai has cost around 65,000 to plant and plough and will probably cost about an other 25,000 in spraying ect before picking. I do recon if done well though you can get about 5,000/bhat/rai profit.

Unfortunatly we did'nt utilise much of it for cow food as the rain got to it and I have no real storage and we were really up against time to get the next crop in, should have something sorted for the next one though.

RC

Edited September 1, 2005 by RamdomChances

[chownah]

If you remember, let me know how it goes when you harvest.

I remembered

Well it turns out it was more like 7 Rai not ten and we made quite a few mistakes growing it so the crop was not that good, anyway here's a run down

Seed - 6000

Ploughing, planting - 3500

Fertiliser - 1000

Picking - 10000

Total cost - 22500

Sale (4 gain@9000) - 36000

Profit- 13500 or about 2000 bhat/rai

Some measurments, it's usually worked out by volume not weight :-

Tang (bucket of set size)

Ga Sop (big hessian sacks) = 6 Tang

Gean = 15 Ga Sop approx 90-100 tang

Most farms were getting nearly 1 Gean/rai we got just over half. We did not spray nearly enough most farms this year sprayed Insectiside/fungiside/weedkiller about 6 times we only did two and as the land was used to grow corn previously we had a lot of weeds and lost a lot to mold. We were quite late in the year to be planting, if we were about 2 weeks earlier we would of gotten 11,000/Gean but as it was we were lucky to get 9,000. The original seed bought was of poor quality (we just bought some off a neibour) but at least it was cheap

Picking is payed by quantity 25 bhat/tang or 2500/Gean. All the ploughing (2 times one 3 one 7 disc's) spraying, planting and picking was contracted out. The good thing about it is that you can get an other crop in as its only 75 days growing (red peanuts, white is 90) and the second crop is usually more expensive (around 12,000bhat/gain). As a lot of farmers wont plant the second crop (there is a risk that the rain will finnish early and its not a cheap crop to plant.

We've already planted the second crop this time 30 rai and bought much better seed I can see why a lot more farmers dont do this as its a fair outlay the 30 rai has cost around 65,000 to plant and plough and will probably cost about an other 25,000 in spraying ect before picking. I do recon if done well though you can get about 5,000/bhat/rai profit.

Unfortunatly we did'nt utilise much of it for cow food as the rain got to it and I have no real storage and we were really up against time to get the next crop in, should have something sorted for the next one though.

RC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great information, thanks a Gean!! I have been thinking lately about your peanuts and was just about to post an inquiry here...but you beat me to the punch.

How do they pick them? Do they pull up the plants by hand or did you plow them out first and then let them dry for a few days before picking?

Where you sold them...what will they do with them? I'm asking because I'm wondering about the possibility of that toxin developing in the nuts if they are not dried enough and then used in certain ways. The huge peanut growers in Australia make a big deal about this on their website and I don't know much about it. The peanuts I picked we just boiled and then ate....I think if you boil them right away then the toxin will not develop. Did the buyer say anything about this or do you have any info?

Since you didn't feed to plants to the cows, I assume you plowed them back in....if so then this should GREATLY add to the fertility of the soil. If you remember I don't use chemical fertilizers or pesticides....and from my perspective plowing in peanut plants is just about as good as it gets in improving your soil naturally...the practice of growing plants and then plowing them in is called 'green manuring' and is a common practice among organic farmers....I did some green manuring this year with a plant called sunn hamp, in Thai its called pah tueung. The seed were provided free by some local gov't agriculture office...they're a type of legume so they take nitrogen from the air and incorporate it into their leaves and also in the soil. You grow them until they start to bloom and then plow them in....but there is no harvest of anything so peanuts are better in that respect. After you plow them in you wait a week or two and then disk...if the residue has decomposed enough then you plant your next crop...I already plowed in the sunn hemp and I'm waiting for a few days without rain to disk it...then I'll plant corn and see what happens. The disadvantage of peanuts compared to sunn hemp as a green manure crop is that if you don't spray then you should only grow peanuts every other year or every third year or else you will have problems with disease. Rotation of crops is a key element in reducing insect and disease damage in natural farming...you might consider rotation too especially if you see insect and disease problems emerging after awhile inspite of your spraying.

Anyway it sounds like your first peanut crop was a success....you made a profit even though you made some mistakes and you've identified the mistakes to improve on the next go 'round....good work and congratulations!!!!!!

[RamdomChances]

They just pick them by hand, pull the plant up and then pull the nuts off, if you are going good 2-250 bhat a day. You need lots of change though as the best way of keeping check is to actually pay them per tang. So someone sits up on the land with the money they bring bags of nuts, you measure them into "tangs" (its a bit bigger than a bucket) poor the tang into the "Ga Sop" and pay them as you go.

Where you sold them...what will they do with them? I'm asking because I'm wondering about the possibility of that toxin developing in the nuts if they are not dried enough and then used in certain ways. The huge peanut growers in Australia make a big deal about this on their website and I don't know much about it. The peanuts I picked we just boiled and then ate....I think if you boil them right away then the toxin will not develop. Did the buyer say anything about this or do you have any info?

To be honest I don't really know anything about "toxin's" I sometines eat them raw, is this bad? We did boil a few just for ourselfs. When you sell them you don't dry them or keep them any lengh of time, so I assume all the processing will be done at the other end, we basically sold to a middle man.

Oh forgot a few things, most people keep some back for the next lot of seed's these need to be dryed in the sun for 3-4 days and turned daily. They are then husked,you can get this done mechanicly (cant remember how much but not a lot). The seeds are then spread and dried again before putting into bags. This can be a problem this season as it is likely to rain

Before you plant the peanuts you also have to treat the seeds with, it looked like some sort of fungiside, its a powder just put the seeds into a big bowl and sprinkle a little bit powder and mix together.

Since you didn't feed to plants to the cows, I assume you plowed them back in....

We just left the cows out for about 5 days. I would of loved to of kept it as a suplement, next time we will probably let it dry on the land, rake it into lines and just run some electric wire along in front of it and let the cows eat it that way (sort of strip grazing).

I asked about ploughing the left overs back in but was told it's not that good as the plants have lots of small peanuts still attatched and these will grow back, so we just raked them up (with a tractor) and burned them. The land side of things has not been something that I've developed much as I've been concentrating on the cows. Apparently this planting requires less spraying than the last one.

The bulk of the land will be fallow for half the year but I'm going to try 5-7 rai through the cold and hot season, using irrigation. I dont think I have enough water to do the whole lot, I'll move that 5 rai around as well so its not on the same bit of soil all the time. The idea is that we will sell all the next lot and then the first 5 rai we will sell most but keep seed for the next 5 rai. This last 5 rai then we will probably not sell any but keep all as seed for the next big planting (you can get 4 crops in easily if you have irrigation).

The second lot have been in for abut a week now and are already coming through

RC

Edited September 1, 2005 by RamdomChances

[JungleBiker]

Hi Ramdom Chances,

I found the information that you posted to be very interesting because it comes from someone who is actually growing peanuts rather than a book. I hope you don’t mind if I ask you for some further details.

o What is the name of the variety of red peanut that you planted? Do you happen to know where your peanuts end up (e.g. in the local market or perhaps the factory that makes “Koh-Kae” coated peanuts or…?).

o Do/did you apply a Rhizobium inoculant to your seeds?

o What is the name (brand name and/or chemical name) of the seed treatment (fungicide) applied to the seed?

o You mentioned that most farmers spray about 6 times (herbicide, insecticide, fungicide) – do have any specific details of the different chemicals used, time of application, costs, etc?

o Any details of fertilizers used (NPK content, quantities)?

o How about your soil - do you know its pH and do you or other farmers in your area apply any lime?

o Do you/other farmers apply gypsum?

o You gave nice details of volume measurements (because you sell the nuts by volume), but do you happen to know what the approximate weight of say one “gean” of fresh peanuts?

JungleBiker

If you remember, let me know how it goes when you harvest.

I remembered

Well it turns out it was more like 7 Rai not ten and we made quite a few mistakes growing it so the crop was not that good, anyway here's a run down

Seed - 6000

Ploughing, planting - 3500

Fertiliser - 1000

Picking - 10000

Total cost - 22500

Sale (4 gain@9000) - 36000

Profit- 13500 or about 2000 bhat/rai

RC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[RamdomChances]

What is the name of the variety of red peanut that you planted? Do you happen to know where your peanuts end up (e.g. in the local market or perhaps the factory that makes “Koh-Kae” coated peanuts or…?).

No idea mate and I would suspect that even the guy I bought them off would not know. We just sell them localy to an agent...where they go after that...who knows

Do/did you apply a Rhizobium inoculant to your seeds?

The first time no, this time probably yes....well we treated them for something anyway, a fungacide I thought.

What is the name (brand name and/or chemical name) of the seed treatment (fungicide) applied to the seed?

You have to relise that all the products are thai with thai labeling, unfortunatly I can't yet read thai. All the people I deal with speak only thai so I'm a bit vague on what I'm actually putting on, just know what it 's for. Most retailer's I've found pretty good, just tell them what you are growing and they will recomend what to put on and when, we have someone helping with ours who has been growing about 50 rai for years

You mentioned that most farmers spray about 6 times (herbicide, insecticide, fungicide) – do have any specific details of the different chemicals used, time of application, costs, etc?

The ammount of times you spray is'nt set, it depends on the amount of insects and the look of the plants. Apparently average is about 4 times (2 fertiliser, 2 insect/fungicide). We had about 7 or 8 different things and to be hinest I have'nt a clue what most were, one was a hormone, at least 2 looked like some sort of mineral (just in clear plastic bags) the rest propriety insectiside/fungiside. The first spraying is at about 20 days, it cost around 14,000 bhat for 30 rai plus 50 bhat/rai spraying

Any details of fertilizers used (NPK content, quantities)?

I've got the NPK writen down but can't find it . But basicaly just tell your supplier what you are growing, and how many days they have been in for and he should be able to tell you what to put on. The same time scale for the fertiliser, 20 days. Spray first then you have to wait for rain then apply the fertiliser, ours was hand applied as a powder. 15,000 plus 400 bhat for people to apply. You need a second application I think about 20 days before planting.

How about your soil - do you know its pH and do you or other farmers in your area apply any lime?

o Do you/other farmers apply gypsum?

I have no idea the ph value of our soil. We dont apply any lime or gypsum and I'm not aware of any farmers in the area that do either, usually the land has been in the family for generations and they just know what will and wont grow in different typess of soil. Chicken manure is widely used.

You gave nice details of volume measurements (because you sell the nuts by volume), but do you happen to know what the approximate weight of say one “gean” of fresh peanuts?

They recon a "tang" is about 15 kg and a "gean" about a ton and a half. Actally when they sell corn they use the same measurments but as weight 1 gean of corn=1.5 tons

Sorry a bit vauge I know but I hope it helps

RC

[chownah]

o How about your soil  - do you know its pH and do you or other farmers in your area apply any lime?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've looked into the question of liming soils in the tropics. I have alot of gardening experience in the northern US and am learning about farming in northern Thailand. What I've found out so far is that liming of tropical soils to alter the ph is often a bad idea. Raising the ph (adding lime raises the ph)can allow some trace minerals to become available in too high a concentration and lead to 'poisoning' of the crop. Also other trace minerals become less available if the ph is raised thus starving the plants for these. In addition the highly leached soils often rely on acid weathering of non soluble nutrients to make them available to a crop since the readily soluble nutrients easily leach out quickly. By changing the ph and eliminating the natural acid condition you in effect have cut off this supply of nutrient. I am actually not very experienced in farming in Thailand and have never applied lime. My information is from reading on the internet only. I'm interested in learning more and if you have some information on this I would be very happy to hear about it. Also the information above applies to typical leached tropical soils which I believe are clay based....I don't know if all of the soils in Thailand are of this type or what percentage are of this type. If you have any info on soils I'd like to find out about that too. It seems that liming of lowland soils is not common in Thailand and since its a cheap soil additive I would think that if it helped it would be commonly used.

Disclaimer: This is stuff I have read about and I could have misunderstood what I read...please verify this stuff yourself too if you have the time and let me know about where ever I'm wrong...

Two more points...when lime is applied to soil in the tropics it is often applied to fix a calcium deficinecy, not to adjust the ph.....and the range of ph for soils on tropical farmlands are more on the acid side compared to the temperate zone farming in north America and that is just they way it works as far as I can tell....the ph that is normal here for rice land would be considered too acid in the US for optimum cropping of most crops.

Edited September 20, 2005 by chownah

[RamdomChances]

Just found the ferrtiliser bag. It's 15 - 15- 15

Nitrogen 15%

Phosphate 15%

Patash 15%

Calcium 2.5%

Magnesium 0.4%

Boron 0.02%

There are apparently different types for different growing times, you'll have to wait about 3 weeks for the next lot

[chownah]

I don't use NPK fertilizers because I farm organically but my wife does the rice and she is not an organic farmer so she uses NPK so I figured I should check it out a bit to help her decide which to use since none of the farmers in the area seem to really know.

What I've found so far is that potassium is needed for strong stem growth so you need to put it on early for most things if your soil doesn't supply enough by itself and evidentally most tropical soils that are cropped every year need additions of potassium to keep stuff growing. Also potassium tends to bind well in clay based soils so even if you put it on early it doesn't leach away very much so it will stick around throughout the cropping cycle. My guess is that the later fertilizer that Random Chances uses will not have the potassium...I'm hoping he'll let me know.

The phosphate doesn't leach very fast either so you can put it on early too. It leaches more than the potassium but not nearly as much as the nitrogen which leaches quite readily. Phosphate is needed for good root growth so it is put on early and also it is needed for flower formation.... crops that rely on alot of flowering like tomatoes or beans need to have a good supply of phosphate all through their growth.

Nitrogen, phosphate, and potassium are all available in natural fertilizers too but it take a bit more work and knowledge to get best results. I won't go on a long organic farming tirade here but I do want to point out that all of this can be done naturally...and that there are some advantages and disadvantages of farming organically.

Edited September 20, 2005 by chownah

[JungleBiker]

o How about your soil  - do you know its pH and do you or other farmers in your area apply any lime?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've looked into the question of liming soils in the tropics. I have alot of gardening experience in the northern US and am learning about farming in northern Thailand. What I've found out so far is that liming of tropical soils to alter the ph is often a bad idea. Raising the ph (adding lime raises the ph)can allow some trace minerals to become available in too high a concentration and lead to 'poisoning' of the crop. Also other trace minerals become less available if the ph is raised thus starving the plants for these. In addition the highly leached soils often rely on acid weathering of non soluble nutrients to make them available to a crop since the readily soluble nutrients easily leach out quickly. By changing the ph and eliminating the natural acid condition you in effect have cut off this supply of nutrient. I am actually not very experienced in farming in Thailand and have never applied lime. My information is from reading on the internet only. I'm interested in learning more and if you have some information on this I would be very happy to hear about it. Also the information above applies to typical leached tropical soils which I believe are clay based....I don't know if all of the soils in Thailand are of this type or what percentage are of this type. If you have any info on soils I'd like to find out about that too. It seems that liming of lowland soils is not common in Thailand and since its a cheap soil additive I would think that if it helped it would be commonly used.

Disclaimer: This is stuff I have read about and I could have misunderstood what I read...please verify this stuff yourself too if you have the time and let me know about where ever I'm wrong...

Two more points...when lime is applied to soil in the tropics it is often applied to fix a calcium deficinecy, not to adjust the ph.....and the range of ph for soils on tropical farmlands are more on the acid side compared to the temperate zone farming in north America and that is just they way it works as far as I can tell....the ph that is normal here for rice land would be considered too acid in the US for optimum cropping of most crops.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Chownah/RC,

Thanks to you both for your replies. Sorry for my slow reply - now working in the "baan nork" of Laos with infrequent internet access.

Just off the top of my head... yes Chownah, you are right, generally speaking soils in the tropics tend to be acid (low pH). Different crops have different pH preferences. If the soil pH is lower than a crops preferred pH range then raising the pH with lime can be beneficial. (Lime is often used in the tropics). However, lime should be applied sometime (one month?) before planting the crop and it may take several seasons of application to gradually raise the pH to the desired level. It is important to determine beforehand the rate of application, since too high a pH can be as detrimental as too low a pH. I guess that Thai farmers may not apply lime because (1) the pH of their soil is within the preferred range or (2) because they don't want to spend the money. You may consider it cheap per kilogram, but you may need to apply several tons per hectare. On the other hand I am sure that there are many Thai farmers who do apply lime - especially growers of higher value crops like vegetables.

Gypsum is often recommended for applying to the soil around the peanut plants just before they start "pegging" (i.e. when the flowers dip down into the soil) because that is the best way to get calcium into the pods to ensure that they become well filled with peanuts. Gypsum is calcium sulphate and it does not change the pH - it only provides calcium. Some soils may not need the gypsum application - it depends on how much calcium there is in the soil which can be determined by testing. But generally speaking most peanut crops in Thailand would benefit from gypsum application.

Regarding RC's comments on seed treatments. Rhizobium is a bacteria that forms nodules on the roots which fix nitrogen gas in the soil into nitrogen fertilizer for the plant. If you are growing peanuts on land that has not grown peanuts before, application of rhizobium to the seed is recommended. It is applied at 200 grams per 12 kg of seed. I don't think it is white coloured, but dark brown. The white coloured substance probably is a fungicide and that is normally recommended to protect the seed during germination from soil borne pathogens (diseases).

Cheers,

JungleBiker (as in cross country mountain bike riding/racing, not motorbikes!).

Edited September 28, 2005 by JungleBiker

[chownah]

Just off the top of my head... yes Chownah, you are right, generally speaking soils in the tropics tend to be acid (low pH). Different crops have different pH preferences. If the soil pH is lower than a crops preferred pH range then raising the pH with lime can be beneficial. (Lime is often used in the tropics). However, lime should be applied sometime (one month?) before planting the crop and it may take several seasons of application to gradually raise the pH to the desired level. It is important to determine beforehand the rate of application, since too high a pH can be as detrimental as too low a pH. I guess that Thai farmers may not apply lime because (1) the pH of their soil is within the preferred range or (2) because they don't want to spend the money. You may consider it cheap per kilogram, but you may need to apply several tons per hectare. On the other hand I am sure that there are many Thai farmers who do apply lime - especially growers of higher value crops like vegetables. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Certainly you are right that some Thai farmers do use lime but I would be cautious about recommending it across the board since what I keep finding indicates that it is really important to know what kind of tropical soil you have...for instance I just went to this link:

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~harter/mclean.htm

and found that, for instance if you have soils that are predominantly oxisols (a type of tropical soil and I wish I knew more about soils) then your optimum ph range for crop growth is from 5.0 to 5.6 and if you go higher than this (over liming)you will start to have deficiencies of Zn, Mn, Cu, and B......Mo toxicity....dispersed aggregates (breakdown of soil structure)....and accelerated microbial decomposition of the soil's organic matter. The same problems exist with soils that are predominantly ultisols (another tropical soil type) except with this soil type the optimum ph range is from 5.6 to 6.2............I don't know enough about soils to know if these even occur in Thaland or not but it seems to me that soil analysis should precede any liming regimen since at least in theory it could have serious negative effects.