Scaffolding In Front Of Central World Bangkok Collapses, Killing 2

[deadbloke]

Nothing shocks or surprises me anymore in 'Amazing Thailand'..... it's now become 'Amusing Thailand'!

[dansat]

I'm not in the least surprised, Only last week I had to lend our scaffolder a spanner to tighten nuts on fixings as he just hung on them after hand tightening them to check if safe enough !!! Also same week took my sons bicycle to a reputable (god only knows how) bicycle repair shop for two new tyres to be fitted. It was returned with painted white 'Direction of travel' markings facing backwards and a nut missing.

They were really jostling with the Laotians and Nigerians at the back of the queue when God handed out brains weren't they.

Yes but as the Nigerians were stronger they got what was left. Leaving nothing for the Thais and Laotians. :jap:

[supaprik]

cause and effect, no red shirt fire no scaffold etc etc etc but the bottom line is if the scaffold fell down then it is simply the people that erected it and the insufficient training they were given, we see this type of thing all day every day and no thai seems to give a HOOT, sure I know at least 2 families tonight that wont be smiling in the LOS

yep agree...no thaksin no corruption no Chinese invasion no Bangkok either, it just goes on and on

[BigBikeBKK]

I Certainly hope the dodgy construction company and the RED Shirt criminals can be made accountable for these unfortunate alas additional victims.

What did the red shirts have to do with it?

Erm... where ya been? It's the red shirts that burned the place down in the first place, remember?!

RIP and condolences :jap:

[geriatrickid]

Cost cutting???? I Certainly hope the dodgy construction company and the RED Shirt criminals can be made accountable for these unfortunate alas additional victims.

I don't believe that the construction company, the engineering consultants and the premises owners are Redshrts. If a dodgy construction company was used, then what does it say about the people that hired the dodgy company? This is why in law both the construction company and the premises owner are liable. The owner has a responsibility to oversee the contractor(s) and to select a responsible contractor.

Of course when I mention the "law" I am refering to jurisdictions where there are actual workplace safety regulations, applicable laws and of course an honest and reliable judicial system. If this applies to Thailand, then of course something will be done. PM Abhisit is a leading pillar of integrity. With the support of the military high command he'll be sure to get the dead workers some basic justice. (Assuming of course that they are not Burmese, in which case, I think they are entitled to 200 baht compensation, which is the going price for a Burmese worker.)

[Samuian]

However, a team of investigators will be set up to find the cause of the collapse.

And then?

There will be an official statement that the scaffolding had indeed collapsed!

Inscence for Erewan!

[animatic]

Those to blame are the construction company and the site foreman.

Is it gross negligence, when things are done at the same standard everywhere?

Incompetence and lack of safety precautions is SOP here and has never changed,

no matter which side was in power in government. So hard to say, this was anything

beyond typical negligence as practiced daily.

Still sad and tragic for the workers and their families.

RIP.

Edited October 29, 2010 by animatic

[bdenner]

and if the building was never constructed the red shirts could not have burned it down, etc etc etc

You should have been a lawyer! "Your Honor. If the bank was never built my client wouldn't have help it up therefore it's the banks fault!"

You seem to forget that these repairs were required as a direct result of a criminal act therefore some blame has to lie with the perpetrators.

[Xangsamhua]

I'm not in the least surprised, Only last week I had to lend our scaffolder a spanner to tighten nuts on fixings as he just hung on them after hand tightening them to check if safe enough !!! Also same week took my sons bicycle to a reputable (god only knows how) bicycle repair shop for two new tyres to be fitted. It was returned with painted white 'Direction of travel' markings facing backwards and a nut missing.

They were really jostling with the Laotians and Nigerians at the back of the queue when God handed out brains weren't they.

Why the unwarranted insult to the Laotians? You've obviously never lived there or have any idea of what you're talking about.

Don't know about the Nigerians, except there are 150 million of them.

[kutjebu]

workers were pouring concrete. The added weight apparently caused the collapse, but no official cause has been released.

[VisasPlus]

I Certainly hope the dodgy construction company and the RED Shirt criminals can be made accountable for these unfortunate alas additional victims.

What did the red shirts have to do with it?

Even though they burnt the place down, they can't be held responsible for shoddy construction methods.

Rather than blame red shirts, why not blame the government ? They are responsible for health and safety organisations aren't they ! Abhisit and his monkey have more blood on their hands (as well as cash)

I think we will find that it is farang fault, as everything is. If farangs did not come to Thailand. If farangs did not have money to spend in nice shops, then Central would not have been built, then the accident would not have happened. So, it is our fault, of course.

[givenall]

I wonder how it collapsed, poor construction of the scaffold or corrosion, my money would be on the first one. I would not go on a building site in this country for love nor money.

I hope the dead go and hunt Mr. T. he is ultimately responsible for all the dead resulting from riot including these two who were working to rebuild

[Tokay]

the Red arsonists burnt down Zen / Central

Wait, I thought the burning of that building was pinned on that silly falang... Jeff Savage

Can't we just blame today's accident on him too?

[muntergok]

If the red shirts hadn't burned it down - they wouldn't have scaffolding around it to repair it. Pretty obvious I would have thought?

I Certainly hope the dodgy construction company and the RED Shirt criminals can be made accountable for these unfortunate alas additional victims.

What did the red shirts have to do with it?

The -vulcan type- logic here is beyond the grasp of most of us. But as Activo & bdenner can tell us if a farang has an accident in Thailand it is his/her fault as without them being in Thailand there would not of been an accident.

These people sometimes stay in bed as they are scared of the havoc and mayhem they might cause by getting up.

[Tokay]

I think we will find that it is farang fault, as everything is. If farangs did not come to Thailand. If farangs did not have money to spend in nice shops, then Central would not have been built, then the accident would not have happened. So, it is our fault, of course.

Hmmmm... we're gonna need a fall guy.

Lets get him!!!!! Again.

[chantorn]

More ghosts for Ratchaprasong

Fully agree with you. Ghost that haunt the place forever. Until merit is made. Go TAM BOON at the temple.

[random]

and if the building was never constructed the red shirts could not have burned it down, etc etc etc

You should have been a lawyer! "Your Honor. If the bank was never built my client wouldn't have help it up therefore it's the banks fault!"

You seem to forget that these repairs were required as a direct result of a criminal act therefore some blame has to lie with the perpetrators.

Not at all, the chain of causation would have been broken a long time ago, the cause of this accident was not the fact a building burnt down (as yet we we still don't know who torched it, there are conflicting versions), the cause of this accident was based on either the failure of the scaffold or human error in it's construction.

I have said it a couple of times in here, but to blame the reds for this is simply pathetic.

The reason for my comment about not being built was to point out the stupidity of the argument, if it wasn't built, if there wasn't a coup, if thaksin wasn't born, if the airports were not taken over etc etc etc.

How far back do we want to take this chain of causation? if it wasn't for the coup then the reds would not have been out etc etc etc, do you see how pointless it is?

Now if an of you legal eagles would like to show me the chain of causation I will happily show you a break in the chain of causation.

[whybother]

and if the building was never constructed the red shirts could not have burned it down, etc etc etc

You should have been a lawyer! "Your Honor. If the bank was never built my client wouldn't have help it up therefore it's the banks fault!"

You seem to forget that these repairs were required as a direct result of a criminal act therefore some blame has to lie with the perpetrators.

Not at all, the chain of causation would have been broken a long time ago, the cause of this accident was not the fact a building burnt down (as yet we we still don't know who torched it, there are conflicting versions), the cause of this accident was based on either the failure of the scaffold or human error in it's construction.

I have said it a couple of times in here, but to blame the reds for this is simply pathetic.

The reason for my comment about not being built was to point out the stupidity of the argument, if it wasn't built, if there wasn't a coup, if thaksin wasn't born, if the airports were not taken over etc etc etc.

How far back do we want to take this chain of causation? if it wasn't for the coup then the reds would not have been out etc etc etc, do you see how pointless it is?

Now if an of you legal eagles would like to show me the chain of causation I will happily show you a break in the chain of causation.

Agreed (without going into a discussion on who burnt CW down).

CW was burnt down. End of story.

CW is being rebuilt. This tragedy is the fault of someone to do with the construction.

[random]

and if the building was never constructed the red shirts could not have burned it down, etc etc etc

You should have been a lawyer! "Your Honor. If the bank was never built my client wouldn't have help it up therefore it's the banks fault!"

You seem to forget that these repairs were required as a direct result of a criminal act therefore some blame has to lie with the perpetrators.

Not at all, the chain of causation would have been broken a long time ago, the cause of this accident was not the fact a building burnt down (as yet we we still don't know who torched it, there are conflicting versions), the cause of this accident was based on either the failure of the scaffold or human error in it's construction.

I have said it a couple of times in here, but to blame the reds for this is simply pathetic.

The reason for my comment about not being built was to point out the stupidity of the argument, if it wasn't built, if there wasn't a coup, if thaksin wasn't born, if the airports were not taken over etc etc etc.

How far back do we want to take this chain of causation? if it wasn't for the coup then the reds would not have been out etc etc etc, do you see how pointless it is?

Now if an of you legal eagles would like to show me the chain of causation I will happily show you a break in the chain of causation.

Agreed (without going into a discussion on who burnt CW down).

CW was burnt down. End of story.

CW is being rebuilt. This tragedy is the fault of someone to do with the construction.

I am getting worried, this is twice you have agreed with me today

[chantorn]

Lottery, lottery anyone. Underground lottery. My neighbor said that such death means number 11. Some say 13. Some even say bet on 02. Now I am really confuse.

[Xangsamhua]

Central World is on land previously occupied by Wang Petchabun (the "Front Palace").

A prince who lived in and loved the palace placed a curse on the site if it was ever developed as a commercial/retail operation. All businesses that have occupied the site since the palace was razed (it was used as a museum following its decommissioning as a residence) have been plagued with bad luck and disappointed hopes. The scary Indian sculpture, "The Head", handed over to Central World by the Thai-India Chamber of Commerce on April 30th, 2009, is also regarded by Curse-believers as an evil influence. "The Head", with its manic stare, was the only survivor of the May fire at the Zen end ot the building.

Details can be found in the book อาถรรพ์วังเพ็ขชบูรณ ("The Curse of Wang Petchabun").

I'm not saying I believe in the curse, but I suspect many Thais may.

[rubl]

The only thing I'm surprised of is that within 2-1/2 hours there are 80 replies to this topic. The article on 'Red Power' magazine only has 23 in seven hours. Either a slow day, or the political engaged are not awake yet

[jdinasia]

The only thing I'm surprised of is that within 2-1/2 hours there are 80 replies to this topic. The article on 'Red Power' magazine only has 23 in seven hours. Either a slow day, or the political engaged are not awake yet

Nah, just a case of absolute apathy about the Red magazine's import difficulties

[PingManDan]

I wonder how it collapsed, poor construction of the scaffold or corrosion, my money would be on the first one. I would not go on a building site in this country for love nor money.

That makes two of us, OSHA would have a field day here in this country, probably close almost all construction sites down for unsafe practices.

[Catalyst]

I wonder how it collapsed, poor construction of the scaffold or corrosion, my money would be on the first one. I would not go on a building site in this country for love nor money.

As always the facts will speak for themselves. I agree that poor construction is more likely than corrosion but other possibilities are an external accident.(eg a vehicle crashing into the scaffold) incorrect design ( scaffold over a certain height has to be designed by a licensed Engineer according to Thai Law), subsidence of the ground under the support legs, pure stupidity( e.g. the two deceased had a fight and fell off the scaffold) and overloading with material to name a few. On good construction sites in Thailand ( meaning an owner who cares and a world class contractor)scaffold is inspected and certified before use and is as safe as any in the world. I personally have walked around on scaffold up to 200m above the ground on projects in Thailand without any concern because I knew that it had been built to a good standard and properly designed. Whatever the cause is found to be it will certainly have been a preventable accident and of course a very sad loss of life

Ah, finally a voice of reason amongst all the pessimists - thank you!

[rubl]

Lottery, lottery anyone. Underground lottery. My neighbor said that such death means number 11. Some say 13. Some even say bet on 02. Now I am really confuse.

Underground lottery is illegal, try the official one. Just make sure you have a real ticket

http://www.glo.or.th/detail.php?link=showknowleage&id=1

[Pash]

I'm not in the least surprised, Only last week I had to lend our scaffolder a spanner to tighten nuts on fixings as he just hung on them after hand tightening them to check if safe enough !!! Also same week took my sons bicycle to a reputable (god only knows how) bicycle repair shop for two new tyres to be fitted. It was returned with painted white 'Direction of travel' markings facing backwards and a nut missing.

They were really jostling with the Laotians and Nigerians at the back of the queue when God handed out brains weren't they.

Wanted to reply to that but saw your handle name as UKfool.

Same as you but his "handle" says it all. Still dont see what his sons bicycle tyres has to do with scaffolding erection.

[mickyboy]

The victims of gross negligence and a half-arsed attitude to safety.

this is not the only place this has happened a few years ago a huge scaffolding came down in london above office block could be the wind or yes just not put up right after that they had to have certificates and better training maybe thailand should do the same but these things happpen all over the world

[whybother]

I am getting worried, this is twice you have agreed with me today

In my defense, I didn't completely agree with you.

[Pash]

As an ex scaff I have never seen a scaffold in Thailand that I would put my name to. The best scaffolders in the world are the Brits. In the UK you need to be trained to a high standard before you can erect a scaffold. An advanced scaffolder can erect a scaffold to any height. it is only when you start to sheet it in that it needs to be designed by an engineer. Scaffolds tend to collapse as a result of the load bearing design of the scaffold being exceeded. The load bearing of the scaffold is the distance between the upright standards and check fittings etc. Scaffolds tend to topple due to the lack of anchors attaching the scaffold to the building. A picture of the scaffold would also tell a lot.

In the UK the person who built and signed off the scaffold is legally responsible for it. it would also have a tag telling people the maximum loading and any other restrictions and inspected regularly and signed off.

Will anybody here be held responsible for the collapse ? I doubt it

RIP the guys who died

Sorry Dunc but without prejudice the 2 largest scaffolding companies in the world are European If the job is big enough and this one was an Engineer (the type with a degree not just a spanner in their hand) would have to sign off the assembly plan .

If anyone has passed the site: What was the colour of the scaffolding?? All the manufacturers have signature colours.