Trump, a case of Malignant Normalcy (besides the "normal" Malignant Narcissim)

[Charlie_Rain]

I am thinking of making a semi-permanent move to Chiang Mai, and need some advice.

My situation:

-- Male, 31, English, BA in English Lit and currently doing an MA in English Lit (Creative Writing).

-- No teaching qualification, and no teaching experience.

-- Spent about 2 years in Thailand (lived in C.Mai for a year)

-- Worked as a freelance writer/editor in Chiang Mai

-- Learning Thai as we speak (have arranged some language exchanges/help from Thai students in the UK)

-- I would like to teach Academic English and perhaps do some editing of papers/essays in English

-- Have a decent amount of money saved up

What is the situation that I should expect when I arrive in C.Mai? (probably in Summer 2011 after my MA is done). I should state that, for my MA thesis, I need to write an 80,000 word novel, which I have a year to complete.

Is there still decent opportunities for part-time teaching work for people like me? I know I should have a CELTA, but is this absolutely necessary for part-time work? What kind of hourly rate can I expect nowadays, and how many hours per week? Also, would it be fairly easy to do some private tutoring -- I could use my academic writing, and creative writing, as selling-points.

Basically I hope to ease myself into expat life, and have the savings to support myself for a couple of years. Years in which I could get my Thai up to advanced standard, and build contacts in C.Mai.

I also want to explore Thailand more fully, and maybe locate an even more ideal place for me (but C.Mai is pretty ideal)

Vague questions I know, but I value the advice of experienced teachers and ex-pats.

Thanks,

--Daniel

[Charlie_Rain]

I should add that I do have a rough outlined plans, this being:

1. Arrive in Thailand next summer

2. Travel for a couple of months (see Cambodia and Vietnam)

3. Get Ed Visa in C.Mai

4. Learn Thai a few days/week

5. Write part-time (creative writing)

6. Volunteer teaching

7. Maybe some part-time teaching work

8. Make contacts and stay busy

[Raindancer]

I should add that I do have a rough outlined plans, this being:

1. Arrive in Thailand next summer

2. Travel for a couple of months (see Cambodia and Vietnam)

3. Get Ed Visa in C.Mai

4. Learn Thai a few days/week

5. Write part-time (creative writing)

6. Volunteer teaching

7. Maybe some part-time teaching work

8. Make contacts and stay busy

One piece of advice is that you CANNOT work under any circumstances unless you have a work permit from the ministry of Interior. Officially you cannot even volunteer your services free of charge without a work permit.!! So my advice is to be careful what you do. But the forum has many topics on Visas etc and it would be prudent to read through this carefully. Then I suggest you log onto the Thai Embassy website in Bangkok and read up on all your requirements to stay here.

Good luck and the last thing I would say is do not take chances at volunteering or any short cuts. There are people who will do the dirty on you and inform immigration. Then it is a heavy fine and bye bye thailand.

[CMX]

John Quinn, director of SEE tefl (one of the several local outfits training students for teaching English as a foreign language in town) not 8 months ago (as I recall) gave a clear outline about possibilities for teaching here, including pay rates. This from a fellow in the business of training and placement. I recall it having been very helpful for someone in your situation. I don't have time to search it out, but you might.

I have no experience of the school itself, though I visited there once. You might contact them, or John, to get a notion of job chances and so forth. I suggest this because I find the fellow honest. There are some excessively optimistic profiteers out there, but my reading of his advice is that it is reliable. See if you can't use our search function.

Good luck also with the novel.

[SadieMBeagle]

Sounds like you have a good plan in place, and you'll be set up quite well to take your time and find good teaching work that you enjoy. People will tell you lots of (usually negative) things on this forum, and will try to convince you that there is NO teaching work here, and that you shouldn't waste your time. And yet everyone I know who has moved here to find work has found it, either in teaching or (as in my case) some other field.

The trick is to go around to the schools in person. "Pound the pavement," as we say in the US. Wear a nice shirt, tie and pants (and nice shoes!), and take your resume to each and every school you like. There is also an agency here that sends people out to schools, though I can't recall the name at the moment. My friend worked for them, and she enjoyed working basically part time (she only had to be at the school during her teaching contact hours), while making 24,000 per month. I personally applied at 3 or 4 different schools, and was offered jobs at 2 of them.

One thing I would recommend, however, is to factor into your plan a TEFL course. They are quick - only 4 weeks - and since you will have your BA and MA already, that will put you at the top of every employer's list. I'm not sure the CELTA itself is strictly necessary, as opposed to the TEFL, which I have heard is less difficult than CELTA. I got my CELTA and it was brutal. But the CELTA offers in-class teaching experience, which you may find important. I'm not sure if the other courses do.

Anyway, good luck! Sounds like you are starting off on the right foot

[CheGuava]

you CANNOT work under any circumstances unless you have a work permit from the ministry of Interior.

From the provincial labour department office. Which your employer would apply for.

Don't worry about it for now. If your income originates outside of Thailand then you have very little to worry about, other than regular visas (Ed or Tourist)

3. Get Ed Visa in C.Mai

You cannot get visas in Chiang Mai (or within Thailand). You need to apply at a Thai Embassy. Those are located outside of Thailand. You will need a letter from the school or institute providing the education. (Can be a very basic letter that states your name, the course, and the time period. You can write it yourself and have the institute sign it.). With that you can get a Non-Immigrant O visa for Education. Try for a multiple entry (double, triple). In practise a Non Immigrant visa may provide only limited benefits over a tourist visa. (Especially since the latter are currently free)

[Charlie_Rain]

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like, as long as I have a plan and do things properly, I will be okay. The advice about pounding the streets - in nice shoes - helps me imagine what it'll be like when I first arrive.

Sadie, I will have a search for that agency -- sounds promising.

Finally, what is the deal with government schools in C.Mai. Would I be able to get a job in one, or is it a case of getting some hours at private language schools?

I fully appreciate the usefulness of a CELTA/TEFL, but it seems like a lot of money. Would not having a cert., but with my BA and MA, stop me from getting jobs?

I have my first language exchange session with a Thai MBA student today. I want to really improve my Thai skills in the next 9 months, and then with a year of proper lessons (in C.Mai), I should make great progress. People always say that speaking Thai is a massive help in getting teaching jobs ... is that true?

(I'll try and search for that thread about teaching opportunities and pay)

Edited December 7, 2010 by Charlie_Rain

[newbie001]

First of all don't get suckered into the TEFL certificate scam. It is not a requirement of the ministry of education or a requirement for a visa.

since you would prefer to do academic writing, then a university job would be better suited for you. WIth and MA you will be able to get full time positions at one of the Universities. My recommendation would be to at least apply for their part time positions if they don't have any full time open. Then you will get some experience.

The pay is crap for part time less than 300 an hour, and the full time is only about 24K a month. (varies slightly from each of the 4 Unis in the area.) The hours are not that bad and it will build your credentials.

If you are looking at teaching young learners, you degree is useless. In order to get a Thai teachers license, you will need to have a degree in Education and not English.

The TEFL certificate or CELTA will not and does not aid in getting the teachers license. It is mainly for those who want to teach oral communication not what you are looking to do.

As above don't volunteer. I wouldn't suggest coming here just to teach though since the wages suck so bad. But for quality of life it isn't bad.

[Charlie_Rain]

John Quinn, director of SEE tefl (one of the several local outfits training students for teaching English as a foreign language in town) not 8 months ago (as I recall) gave a clear outline about possibilities for teaching here, including pay rates. This from a fellow in the business of training and placement. I recall it having been very helpful for someone in your situation. I don't have time to search it out, but you might.

I have no experience of the school itself, though I visited there once. You might contact them, or John, to get a notion of job chances and so forth. I suggest this because I find the fellow honest. There are some excessively optimistic profiteers out there, but my reading of his advice is that it is reliable. See if you can't use our search function.

Good luck also with the novel.

Hey CMX, I found some posts by See Tefl, and also a link to their website. Can you remember if he started a thread, or just replied to one? I can't seem to find the exact one you mentioned. Here is a link to his content:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=user_activity&mid=72577

Their TEFL course, and one year Visa, sounds promising. I could do the TEFL, and then look for part-time work at first, plus do a Thai language course at AUA (or somewhere else that is decent). This seems a very good way to get me settled in C.Mai. Does the See TEFL course have a good reputation --- seems pretty good to me.

I will email him directly.

Thanks.

[SEETEFL]

I will email him directly.

Hi Charlie_Rain,

I just responded to your personal message. Please let me know by email if you encounter any difficulty accessing my response.

John Quinn

SEE TEFL

http://seetefl.com

info (at) seetefl (dot) com

Edited December 7, 2010 by SEETEFL

[CMX]

Charlie_R,

I suggested that you contact John Quinn because somewhere (don't recall thread), he outlined wages and working conditions hereabouts. As I said, I have not taken the program with SEE. In your case, you might - approaching this deliberately as you appear to be - wish to take such a course. They require time, as you will have read, energy, and serious effort. But as you have not had experience in teaching, it may be that you would profit from such an augmentation.

But the point all will make is that there are other Asian countries that pay better and offer better working conditions (class sizes here apparently, are very large, depending on tuition.) You will have noted above U. pay.

But I have no idea if just taking your credentials to every door or doing TEFL is the better course for you - or anyone, for that matter.

[SEETEFL]

I suggested that you contact John Quinn because somewhere (don't recall thread), he outlined wages and working conditions hereabouts.

I think this is the post CMX. A few related posts followed.

[CMX]

Yes, that was the thread - thanks. As you suggest, the continuation of the thread from your entry should be useful for OP as well. (Almost talking about real money.)

[Charlie_Rain]

Thanks for posting the thread -- very useful information on there.

Seems like I am on the right track, and this forum has been helpful, and positive.

I am slightly confused about the hours/week one would have to work. If I were to teach full-time, how many hours teaching, and how many hours in total?

And the English Programme seems like an ideal opportunity for me. What subjects are taught, and is this a popular programme ie. are there decent numbers of positions available?