Questions About Master Degree And Work In Thailand

[Indo-Siam]

Fanta Rood -

Here is the answer Most of the posters are chuckling at the idea of a 17 year old wanting to complete both an undergraduate degree and a masters degree in one long sequence - and then go out and find a "good job". This is certainly possible. But - to most people on this board, this approach appears unwise.

"Why is that?" you will ask. Here's the answer:

By all means, go get a BS degree - I don't think any responsible person on this board will suggest that you are better off without a university degree.

Then - with that degree - go out and get a job. Don't worry too much about the loftiness of the job. It is just your first job - not your life-defining destiny. My advice would be - go seek out a geat boss - a mentor - rather than a "sexy" job, or a high salary. Unless you want to be a pure researcher or life-long academic (and probably even then), what you most need is to learn about how the business world works. Think of your first couple of jobs as merely part of your education - except you are getting paid !!!

It may not be strictly true, but keep in mind the old adage:

"Those who can, do. Those who can't - teach." This is the main reason I never pursued an MBA. I wanted to learn how to run a successful business from a sucessful businessman - not from an academic who had never sweated makinga payroll.

At any rate, get a BS degree, and then go out and slay a few small dragons - and try to pick up the lessons learned by good bosses. Then - after you have a few years under your belt - then and only then, start drawing up a plan to go back for an advanced degree. You will learn SO MUCH MORE from the perspective of someone who has already "walked the walk" - instead of having just matriculated within an "ivory tower" for six or seven straight years.

The other thing to keep in mind - and again, everyone on this board has chuckled at the discussion - it is very unlikely that anyone just starting out as an adult can usefully project out a straight and well-defined long-term path in life - to include profession, education, location. Don't try to pre-plan three steps - undergrad education, grad school, and then job in Thailand. There's nothing wrong with having a general "plan of attack" in mind - but keep your eyes and ears open, because your best opportunities will probably lie in directions about which you do not even have a CLUE at this point.

Personally, I have a BS degree. It is now 2005. If - in 1994, someone had asked me what the chances were that - 11 years hence - I would be running my own business in Thailand, I would probably have been rolling on the floor in derisive laughter. Pigs would sooner fly. Now - here I am (??????). I run a business that is an advertiser on this board. Good enough. But - I also run a technology business that most people do not know about. I got into the second business through a series of highly improbable events. I cannot tell the future - but it appears to me that the second, "accidental" business has a good chance of becoming my primary business before long.

They say " Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." The way to get "lucky" is to prepare well, and then keep an open mind to discover opportunities.

I will give you just one "shadowy" example - if you wander around this discussion board, you will find all sorts of people whining and complaining about various aspects of foreigners pursuing life in Thailand. Lots of whiners. Well, as soon asyou get six people on this board whining about somthing, it probably represents a business opportunity to provide a business solution to an unmet demand. And thus were born several VIP visa bus run operators, and also at least one self-storage facility. Every single thing that drives whining people nuts in Thailand represents a SCREAMING opportunity for someone to create a business to provide a systematic solution.

If they dump a truckload of lemons on top of you - don't curse them. Go make and sell lemonade.

Cheers! And good luck.

Steve

Indo-Siam

[sadman]

If they dump a truckload of lemons on top of you - don't curse them.  Go make and sell lemonade. 

Sums it up, really.

Oh, and by the way, Fanta Rood - if you ask a question and you don't like the answer, kindly don't assume that we're "all shit" in our own country.

Like many others here, I am only too happy to offer any advice if asked. We derive no advantage in giving you the benefit of our collective experience, but we do it gladly, even though it could actually harm our own livelihoods (say, if you were to be a potential competitor). We do it to try and help a fellow human being along, perhaps making life a bit easier. Yes, I know there are plenty of whingers, knockers and losers, but if you read the responses to your question, you may well see that they are, in the main, quite constructive.

We can only give you the facts, not the intellectual apparatus with which to appreciate them.

And for your information, I am not shit in my own country or anyone else's, for that matter.

[think_too_mut]

And for your information, I am not shit in my own country or anyone else's, for that matter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Me thinks the OP did not take seriously the professional although informal advice provided by Indo-Siam. It was given free of charge. Indo-Siam restated it later in different words.

As for being a shit in our own countries, many of us are what the OP wants to become.

Perhaps, the OP may wait until his papa comes online. Wish the o;d man is alive and kicking, then some chance he's on the board too.

[jumbo]

Fanta

Let me try to answer some of you questions

1) Most foreigners are here either as teacher or sent by their company to come and work here; the difference is the remuneration. I was one of the latter and when my contract ended in 2001 I changed jobs to another MNC not from my home country though and am still working there. That was a major trick, changing jobs as far as I heard. Now you want to pull an even harder one, coming fresh from university and trying to get a job, I think it will be very hard. Don’t think they accept the foreigners here because they are so brilliant or have specific qualifications; a good education and a very good resume can get the job done. Experience, languages are most important. Since you have neither but you do have a dual nationality that might be an advantage, howeve take into consideration that a lot of Thai university graduates work in factories or start out with small jobs at 5-10.000 thb per month.

2) I am not quite sure about your questions but the last sentence in the above should help you there if I understand you correct. You cannot work in another job than ‘manager’ qualified because a workpermit needs be issued for your specific job and jobqualification and it will be evaluated i.e. you will need to inform them progress form the Thai in your department and new hurdles you are taking as the pioneer and subsequently will tach your Thai subordinates again.

3) For starting your own company you just need a Thai partner/wife that you can trust, so the other thing is 9 Thai people and a trustworthy lawyer. Please search this site for much more information. Inexpensive to do anyway, your problem will be what are you going to do and how will you get your workpermit/visa throught his company.

4) As said before search the internet and you will find the Bankok Post website as well as the Nation’s, Monster, Jobtopgun etc. etc.

5) You will only b eligible for foreign hold companies. Thai companies usually do not hire Foreigners, here again your dual nationality or decent can work for you, Thai people love them! Example General Managers/Managing Directors for Thai companies make around 50.000 thb, foreigners not the ones I mentioned in 1) and are sent by their companies, around 125.000-150.000 usually at least bachelor/master speaking/writing Thai and English fluently and most probably Mandarin/Chinese as well.

6) Just spend here 3 months after your graduation and find out, you will be amazed about all the possibilities, how well you would fit in and how few companies need you!

Take care guy

[josh_ingu]

But most of all I am annoyed how you people behave in Thailand. You ain't shit in your own country and then you just go to Thailand to make a mess there? I can't believe the Thais aren't angry about this. I guess money makes people blind.

Nice. Very nice. Anyway, I will give you a few pointers on two areas that others have not covered yet.

1. Yes, you could get into a Thai Masters program with a USA basic degree with no problem

2. For a career in either academia (university) or research - forget it without a PhD. Thailand is quietly producing quite significant number of PhDs in relatively high tech areas. As an example something like 40 scholarships were given last year for Thai students to study PhD's in nanotechnology in leading American and European uni's. Life sciences etc are *reasonably* well developed both in terms of local PhD's (trained in Thailand) and overseas (thai's on scholarships trained overseas).

However, overall, my advice would be *not* to pick a masters because it *may* get you a job in Thailand. Pick one because it interests you, and you want to know more about the subject.

Furthermore, whatever you do study, you would likely be able to get a job in Thailand. As a thai national you are exempt from all the restrictions that apply to foreigners for what job you can take. However, the moot point is can you get a *good* job in Thailand, or more succinctly, can you get a good wage. In this aspect you would likely find that you Thai passport would count against you. You would get paid Thai rates. As an example of this, a foreign uni lecturer might start on 25K. A Thai (even one with a PhD from an overseas uni) would start on 12 to 15K.

Swings and round abouts.

-j-

[fanta rood]

Alright, thanks alot for the helpful replies. Did I need to get angry first to get these replies? Or was it because I told you I am thai? I guess it would be alot more awkward to tell a thai to not come to his own country. Thanks

Like many others here, I am only too happy to offer any advice if asked. We derive no advantage in giving you the benefit of our collective experience, but we do it gladly, even though it could actually harm our own livelihoods (say, if you were to be a potential competitor).  

I think that was the main reason. Another word to describe some of these people: jaelousy. Same same. I had to stimulate people to come and reply. Being the nice guy and taking the (negative) comments without any problem didn't work! My opinion still stands though. Less then 10% has a bs degree or higher here in my small, rich and spoiled country. Says enough about the mentality.

Take care guy

You really made my day. For some reason that comment made me very happ. Thank you alot Jumbo. Also thank you j and steve. About the advice though I like to focus on my study first. For many reasons not just to "think" that I can get any job.

[jumbo]

Take care guy

You really made my day. For some reason that comment made me very happ. Thank you alot Jumbo. Also thank you j and steve. About the advice though I like to focus on my study first. For many reasons not just to "think" that I can get any job.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What else can I say to a young fellow countryman

[CaptainIgloo]

for a pretty renound university in Thailand and abroad,

you can check out www.ait.ac.th

[osloguy]

Alright, thanks alot for the helpful replies. Did I need to get angry first to get these replies? Or was it because I told you I am thai? I guess it would be alot more awkward to tell a thai to not come to his own country. Thanks

.... Another word to describe some of these people: jaelousy. Same same. I had to stimulate people to come and reply. Being the nice guy and taking the (negative) comments without any problem didn't work! ....

Fanta,

you did not get a lot of good replies because:

1. You were unpolite

2. You asked totally open questions that would requires extremely long replies to answer in a meaningful way

3. In your question, you asked for near-impossible things ("guaranteed job in Thailand")

I don't know which of your chosen fields will give you best job prospects.

My general advice is to go to the best and most well-known university you can possible enter. A university that will impress your potential employers in Thailand. Do as well as possible in everything you do, stand out of the crowd. Thai universities does not have a good reputation worldwide. Your job prospects will be VERY MUCH higher if you study engineering at e.g. MIT instead of Chula. Have some patience, spend your time at the university that will be best for your future, not a university located where you want to be right now (but will give you less hope for your future).

If your high school degrees are not good enough to get into a very good university now, then get into the best you can, then work your a*s off and do a master degree at a famous place after your bachelor.

Gain commercial experience during your studies, if possible. Whatever you do, make sure that your social and business skills are good as well, not just your academics.

Be a guy that people want to work with, who can contribute and work in a team - in addition to your academic and theoretical knowledge.

If you live in USA now, I think it's better for your future to work at least a couple years in USA after your studies, before going to Thailand. Work in a well-known, renowned company, that will be familiar and impressive to potential employers in Thailand. You will not learn business practices at university, you learn theory. Learn how GOOD companies work in the real world, in USA or Europe for a few years. When you then move to Thailand, you can contribute both theoretical knowledge and business knowledge.

If you have education from a top university, a couple years work experience in a top company, you can speak Thai, and you don't need a work permit in Thailand, then you have good chances. As said above, if you can't get into a top university for your bachelor, then work hard and change to a top place for your masters. If you put in a lot of effort and fight for what you want, you can get it. If you think this is too much work, then there's nobody here who can help you, and it boils down to being lucky instead.

If you can't wait, you can do as I did. Upon graduating, I took my savings money, bought a one-way ticket to Singapore and looked around for a job for 3 months. In the end I did get a decent office job in a decent multinational company, but my salary was of course way less than people with a bit more experience, and especially those who had been sent over from their home countries by their company.

Fight for it, and you can have it - nobody will stop you but yourself. If your current situation is not so good, e.g. poor high school results, you will have to fight harder.

Good luck to you.

Edited September 26, 2005 by osloguy

[fanta rood]

Here we don't have good or bad universities (ofcourse reports shows that some are better then others, but it's not relevant at the moment). Every university is pretty much even. There's only one university that's suppose to be good, but costs alot of $ to enter and it's only for laws or economics I think.

Yeah, they might be vague questions. But some jobs are guaranteed like doctors. Or jobs where at the moment (26-9-2005) is a major shortage. In Netherland; teachers for high school in most subjects, physisians, chemists etc etc. In Thailand; I dunno, my question for you to answer.

My situation changed alittle bit. I'm doing physics and I'm in a class with only 20(!) other students. None of them are female, most of them are ugh. And since I didn't come to the introduction week I know almost no one. It can be really boring in and outside of the university. I might do a different study, not sure yet. My eyes are on medicin atleast I will know what to expect in the later part of my life and no gambling involved. But I'm not guaranteed to roll in, because there it chooses random applicants. So physics, chemistry, pharmacy are all good choices for me. I like them all. But my questions still stand. In what field is a major shortage in Thailand. For example in Netherland they need people from physics and chemistry. Only 20 students this year for physics compared to 800 for laws!

1. How do foreign people work in BKK? Are they only hiring English teachers? Are foreign people working in Thailand only teachers or people working at a multinational and got sent to thailand? I would like to know about the foreigns working in Thailand right now. Salary, colleagues, work pressure, qualifications, working times, details...

2. What about researchers, managers or the basic jobs that thai people do? Chances?

3. How about if I want to start my own company there what will happen? What must I do? How? Costs? Chances? Place?

4. What jobs advertisements are there in today's Bangkok Post? Job title, what degree and what salary?

5. What "higher educated" job advertisements are there in any Thai newspaper? Again what job title, what degree and what salary?

6. more advice for someone that wants to move to Thailand after his studies ofcourse is always welcome.

Also I think people might be attacked by my ambitions and "intelligence". They see me as competition and/or are just jaelous. People told me to stay in here in Europe. UNTILL I said I was 1/2 thai with 100% thai nationality.

[osloguy]

Here we don't have good or bad universities (of course reports shows that some are better then others, but it's not relevant at the moment). Every university is pretty much even.

You are right. it is not relevant at the moment. However, it will be relevant when you graduate and look for a job afterwards.

Regarding your career aspirations.... are you looking for a foreign salary (e.g. 100-200,000 baht/month) or are you fine with a Thai fresh grad salary (e.g. 5,000-20,000/month). Your chances and opportunities does of course depend a lot on this.

2. What about researchers, managers or the basic jobs that thai people do? Chances?

Your chances, with Thai passport and Thai language, for getting a basic job that Thai people do, for Thai people's salary is excellent. If you don't mind working for 6,000baht, you should not have a problem finding a job - regardless of which of your options you choose to study.

3. How about if I want to start my own company there what will happen? What must I do? How? Costs? Chances? Place?

People do not hold back answers to this based on jealousy or trying to keep secrets. They hold back answers because the way it is phrased, it is not a very smart question. If you can't figure out why this was not a smart question, you don't have much chance of succeeding in it.

To go a step further, take a look at http://www.sunbeltasia.com/ The owner is a sponsor of this web board.

4. What jobs advertisements are there in today's Bangkok Post? Job title, what degree and what salary?

There are hundreds of jobs advertised. Do you want someone to copy them all in to you, for free? Be more specific and you may get some help. E.g. "has anyone seen positions in chemical process engineering, for fresh graduates?"

5. What "higher educated" job advertisements are there in any Thai newspaper? Again what job title, what degree and what salary?

What would your response be if people asked you "Fanta, what jobs are advertised in your country (USA)? What job titles are advertised in Holland? What degrees are needed for a job in Holland? What salary can i make in Holland?

Also I think people might be attacked by my ambitions and "intelligence". They see me as competition and/or are just jaelous.

I'm hoping you are being ironic and pulling a joke. In case you're not, being 17-18 years old with no experience or education, you are in fact zero competition to 99% of the people on this board. Sorry to burst your bubble. I think I missed that intelligent posting of yours.

I'll repeat my advice from above... Try to become very good at something, give employers a reason to hire YOU instead of one of the other 100s of people applying for the same job.

I'm trying to decide whether your posts are just trolling or if you just can't understand how you come across.

Edited September 26, 2005 by osloguy

[fanta rood]

I was slightly annoyed by the reactions I got 1 month ago. You guys were trolling all the time on me. I put intelligence between "" in case some guy might use it against me. But I was polite throughout page one, until I decided the jokes were enough and got slightly angry. BUt your right who takes a little kid serious on the internet.

And it's jaelousy.

Edited September 26, 2005 by fanta rood

[samran]

Do what I did.

Study at home - maybe do an semester exchange with a Thai university. Only study something which you really enjoy...otherwise you won't do well.

Come to Thailand during your summer breaks to do work experince getting paid 8K-10K per month.

Learn to speak, read, write and dream in Thai.

Then after graduation work in your home country or somewhere in the EU for a couple of years.

Then come back around 30 (after you can't be conscripted) and see if there is a niche in the market for you. Sky is the limit then for earnings potential. Only then will your little brown book be worth its weight in gold.

[snoophound]

Ok

Lets look at this from another angle.

Why would a Thai company want to hire a falang grad?.

Many of the senior execs in these companies would have kids being educated at great expense overseas.

They will be pressured by their mates to hire these kids on their return.

So you will need to be able to offer something more.

I know many Thai kids studying here in Sydney through my Stepdaughter who is 20 born Thai and lived here for 12 years.

Her boyfriend is what I would call a good thai boy.

He is 21 putting himself thru an IT degree and working 7 days a week cleaning and helping to support his family.(rare most are spoilt plonkers partic the chinese boys)

If you were Thai who would you rather give the job to on his return?

Perhaps the most annoying thing with these kids is the way they pretty much socialise here with exclusively Thais,and still speak English as their second language here in AUS.

I keep telling him to turn it around to english as he will never forget thai,,that he will be worth more back in Thailand as a strong english speaker able to make sure the consultants from the multinational vendors cant gain the upper hand in negotiations,project mgmt etc.

Do what I did.

Study at home - maybe do an semester exchange with a Thai university. Only study something which you really enjoy...otherwise you won't do well.

Come to Thailand during your summer breaks to do work experince getting paid 8K-10K per month.

Learn to speak, read, write and dream in Thai.

Then after graduation work in your home country or somewhere in the EU for a couple of years.

Then come back around 30 (after you can't be conscripted) and see if there is a niche in the market for you. Sky is the limit then for earnings potential. Only then will your little brown book be worth its weight in gold.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[autonomous_unit]

Fanta: deep down, we all like to see a kid with ambitions. However, the type of farang that end up traveling the world, living abroad, etc., are by and large not the coddling or nurturing type. When we teach someone to swim, we probably do it by throwing them in the water. Repeatedly. You need to have a thick skin if you want to learn from this type of person.

You should pay attention to Samran's comments because he has experience that directly relates as a dual-citizen Thai who was raised abroad (unless I've confused myself reading this thread and others). Your situation is very different from a farang's, because you have the opportunity to take any job for which you are qualified while we are limited to "expert" or "businessman/investor" jobs for which we can get work permits. For an expert technical work permit, we have to already be established experts in our field outside Thailand; it is unlikely a fresh Bachelor's or Master's graduate will demonstrate expertise without some influential help. A better description of your entire situation in the first message of the thread may have drawn in a better mix of answers for you, i.e. from other dual-citizenship Thais.

For general education plans, I think it is reasonable to plan undergraduate and masters work as one unit. This is becoming more common as the value of bachelor's degrees continues to deflate in the economy. Some of the older posters here may recall a time when a high school diploma meant you could probably find work other than hard labor. This is about where a bachelor's degree sits now, unfortunately. There are a lot of underemployed bachelor's degree holders in the world.

However, for every person I've met who knew what they wanted to study and work at in high school or younger, I've known five or ten who had no idea (or changed their minds) until one or two years into their undergraduate program. The best general advice on this thread was stated earlier: focus on getting the fundamentals which can satisfy a range of specialties for the first few years of university. This will probably highlight to you which courses of study seem most interesting to you as you get more experience, and it avoids closing doors too early.

I also recommend getting more than the minimum requirements of non-technical "elective" study. Take some literature or arts classes. Study a bit of philosophy or history. Get a well rounded education because that will help you immensely to understand and navigate the world as you get older. Also, it might just surprise you with an area of interest you never knew about! It also exposes you to more interesting people with more different backgrounds; these are the kinds of people you want to get to know and have your prerequisite all-night debates with in school. They are the ones who will teach you the social skills you need for any career anywhere on the planet that involves working with other humans. Learn to debate without attacking. Learn to attack without fighting. Learn to make friends you will get to debate more than once.

[steveromagnino]

Fanta Rood

Some advice.... if you are indeed 1/2 Thai, then you can find a successful career here doing almost anything provided you have some energy, some plans and some aptitude for what you choose to do. Therefore, you should probably persue something you enjoy.

If we are talking about where to make serious money; business is probably where it is at. You are bilingual, and there are a bunch of companies here, particularly foreign companies, that need someone to act as the conduit between the local workers and the foreign shareholders. Most of these companies currently post some expat who generally adds less value through not speaking Thai; they add more value because they have expertise in the "western" or "Japanese" way of doing things...so if you can have both, then you are very valuable; that is basically the situation I am in now.

In terms of earning expectation; well 100,000b before age 30 is most certainly quite doable, but like anything it depends on your aptitude and your willingness to work - presentation skills are also important, and as a personal note any arrogance might be well tolerated online or in USA but overconfidence is despised in Thailand.

TO get to this point...I suggest a business degree in probably finance & marketing (not accounting, economics is fairly useless, IT goes out of date) and at the same time go and try to get into the programs for undergrads at McK, BCG, etc - if you are as good as you seem to be making out, that should be doable. Then work in USA for 2 years, complete an MBA at a top 50 school; THEN come to Thailand.

You will also need the following as the expectation for 1/2 Thais can be higher (andyou may earn more than full Thais)

- fluency in spoken Thai close to 100%

- some reading and writing ability, although much less important

- that you "fit in" and understand how Thai people think

- family and connections are important; especially to get into a decent firm

- somewhat attractive - Thailand is sometimes superficial; how you look and present yourself is important

This is just one option.... there are many ways to do things, but I would not rush to come here; do some time in a foreign country and you will learn things that are so easy there; you come here and do the same things and you can be a genius sometimes; easy wins and go from there.

BTW I don't think most of the ppl in this thread are jealous (note the spelling); not all the people replying are farang; many are doing the things you wish to do - perhaps you should read a little about presentation skills and interaction skills - on some levels you are acting more like some spoilt western brat than the Thai people I know of your age.

Best regards

[RAZZELL]

And...

Grow up a little...

[chonabot]

I am a thai hybrid. This means I have the thai nationality as well as an european one. I have the motivation and the talent to finish a technical study. This not only gives me a huge bonus (one of the oh so many reasons to get a physics master), but also guarantees me a job in America and EU. With this combination I have high success everywhere in the world. Do you understand now? Do you understand why I want to be in Thailand? Do you understand why I inform about Thailand? I like to keep as much options open as possible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry to resurrect this old thread but I was bored at work etc....

Fanta if you had offered this information at the outset of your inquiry it would have been more comprehensible.

You have an attitude towards Westerners in Thailand that is unhealthy.

If you can't see these faults in yourself at such a young age, I doubt whether you will ever have the gumption to follow anything meaningful through.

I have 2 sons , both half Thai and half european, so far their upbringing is balanced enough for them to have a far less jaded view of life.

You should meet them , they would teach you much wisdom.

[h90]

chonabot: It was really a mistake to resurrect that threat again.

pretty useless thread....... Really a waste of time to read fantas posts....

I am a thai hybrid. This means I have the thai nationality as well as an european one. I have the motivation and the talent to finish a technical study. This not only gives me a huge bonus (one of the oh so many reasons to get a physics master), but also guarantees me a job in America and EU. With this combination I have high success everywhere in the world. Do you understand now? Do you understand why I want to be in Thailand? Do you understand why I inform about Thailand? I like to keep as much options open as possible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry to resurrect this old thread but I was bored at work etc....

Fanta if you had offered this information at the outset of your inquiry it would have been more comprehensible.

You have an attitude towards Westerners in Thailand that is unhealthy.

If you can't see these faults in yourself at such a young age, I doubt whether you will ever have the gumption to follow anything meaningful through.

I have 2 sons , both half Thai and half european, so far their upbringing is balanced enough for them to have a far less jaded view of life.

You should meet them , they would teach you much wisdom.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[steveromagnino]

chonabot: It was really a mistake to resurrect that threat again.

pretty useless thread....... Really a waste of time to read fantas posts....

Yes, I wish people wuld stop posting in this thread

[fanta rood]

?

1) for improved chances of work in thailand wich one?

a. physics

b. pharmaceutical science

c. chemistry

d. math

e. biology

[sriracha john]

e. Biology.... absolutely the one to get.

Edited January 4, 2006 by sriracha john

[samran]

f) an open mind

g) probably about another decade