Thai Response To Tragedy Vs. Us Response

[jrincon17]

Commentator on the 6 o'clock news, everytown, USA: 

Today the mayor of New Orleans addressed the nation and specifically the ex residents of New Orleans....if you are wondering why I use the term ex residents then just listen:Hello, this is the mayor of New Orleans, I was reading on ThaiVisa today and discovered that New Orleans is built in a really stupid place because it is too low and if another hurricane came it could cause problems soooooo we are condemning the entire city.  All businesses and residences will be demolished along with all gov't building, churches, and miscellaneous structures.  A big fence will be built around the site and no one will be allowed in....we are going to plant rice. Have a nice day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Will people think before the F'cking type . People absolutely loved New Orleans now it was built in a stupid place . For god sakes people shut the f;ck up . this makes me sick , now people critisize the U.S. for every little thing . Uk you have been bombed now what do you think , should we be afghanistan ? Thought so

[jrincon17]

8. All of the looters shown on FOX news are non-white (I'm sure they can find some white people to video tape too)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No they weren't, but I did notice that most of the security guards stopping them were black too.

Why even bring this up?

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Most of Louisiana is black , you dumb troll refering to the the guy who wrote all of the looters

[jackr]

Galong, you need to take your head out of your arse old mate. Comparing the clean-up operation in Thailand from the devastation of a tsunami smashing inland no more than a hundred metres or so to that of the response in the US from a mega-hurricane reaching hundreds of miles inland is rather dumb. The army and emergency services could simply drive to the little island of Phuket from any direction and administer aid; bit different in the States where the devastation is total...city-wide and state-wide. If you want to be pedantic, why the &lt;deleted&gt; didn't the relevant office in Muang Thai worn of the imminent tsunami they were told would probably come? Face loss for possible non-show obviously, but how many wasted lives did that cost?

Stop wagging your finger and engage the brain first. People were warned, people stayed, the land is lower than sea level, people chose to live there.

Regards the looters: what was that about that piss ant wandering into the jewellers in Phuket between waves??

[frodo]

Normally, I don't reply to troll posts such as this, but to the o/p, you really should check yourself into the nearest temple and learn about something we call compassion for others.

In case you weren't here last December 26, there wasn't that great of a response from this government. How long did it take before the news was allowed to even mention there was a tsunami? Many hours if my memory serves me correct. My roomies were watching Thai TV and nothing was even mentioned about it.

Second, to try to paint a picture about the Thai's being so ever perfect in their handling of the situation, and as you write, 1st world, you're out of your mind. Based upon a sequence of events it sure seems that the PM, ever so perfect, went to the devistated area purely out of concern for everyone invloved. And pigs fly. I've never seen such blatant corruption and selfishness as I had seen here. People not being able to go to their homes, not being able to claim their possessions, and most important, to find their loved ones. No. It was more like big business, gov't officials, and the Thai mafia types moving in and literally stealing what those poor folks owned. They'll never see anything that is rightfully theirs. What you write is nothing but hogwash.

Like others here have posted, hurricanes don't normally move that far inland. This is indeed catastrophic. Don't compare when there is no comparison.

[jrincon17]

Galong, you need to take your head out of your arse old mate. Comparing the clean-up operation in Thailand from the devastation of a tsunami smashing inland no more than a hundred metres or so to that of the response in the US from a mega-hurricane reaching hundreds of miles inland is rather dumb. The army and emergency services could simply drive to the little island of Phuket from any direction and administer aid; bit different in the States where the devastation is total...city-wide and state-wide. If you want to be pedantic, why the &lt;deleted&gt; didn't the relevant office in Muang Thai worn of the imminent tsunami they were told would probably come? Face loss for possible non-show obviously, but how many wasted lives did that cost?

Stop wagging your finger and engage the brain first. People were warned, people stayed, the land is lower than sea level, people chose to live there.

Regards the looters: what was that about that piss ant wandering into the jewellers in Phuket between waves??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said Jackr , man I almost lost it after i readhis post . Is there a way to ban him for being so stupid ?

[lovejoy]

wow there are so many stupid posts here on this topic(by a few people)

too many to reply to

the idiots here seem to think it was there own fault ,they had 286 years to do something(relocate a whole city, yeah simple),people didnt leave when they were told to ,they couldnt afford to leave,only black looters were shown????(the news crews should look harder for whites or the very least mixed race looters right )

if the idiots here put the same effort trying to be constructive and pulled there heads out of there ass.i hope you are never in the same situation and need any help,although you no doubt will be very well prepared..........pricks

[Curt]

Looters - unless its food, clothing or medicine - shoot them dead - worse parasites in the world - we dont need those sort.

Levies- hindsight is 20/20 - we never think it will happen to us mentality - news reported that levies were constructed to last in no more than a class 3 hurricane, improvements would be too costly. (cheaper now than what the costs are going to be)

Flooding is what is hampering rescue efforts. Mind you lil hard to understand why someone stays when they are told to leave - goes again to mentality that we will be alright.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Looters:

Because there is little law enforcement personel, no jails, and plenty of armed looters, there have been public officials actually proposing shooting them.

But, for many, looting food and such also is survival.

Levies:

All civilizations believe they can beat mother nature.

Levies weren't built and a city erected.

The levies came as the city sank.

New Orleans, and this situation, were cited as the most probably disaster senario to hit this country.

The result is pretty much what was expected.

But, at what point do we tell everyone to leave their city and find a new home?

I think we now have that window of opportunity.

Flooding/staying:

Flooding is the big reason the efforts are so slow.

This storm surge hasn't receded, allowing access.

There are 2 carriers bringing more helicopters to the Gulf.

Many of these people have ridden out storms for decades.

This same storm passed over Florida like nothing special.

These factors feed the "It will be okay" mindset.

But, when the warnings came, there was a mass exodus.

Unfortunately, there were only so many planes, trains, buses and cars.

Many couldn't afford the fares when they were available.

The little good news:

The flow into the city seems to have stopped.

The basin now appears "filled".

Repairing the levies can now be attempted.

Whether or not rebuilding takes place, they need to first dry it out for access/salvage.

Personally, I think it's time for a relocated New Orleans.

[jrincon17]

Looters - unless its food, clothing or medicine - shoot them dead - worse parasites in the world - we dont need those sort.

Levies- hindsight is 20/20 - we never think it will happen to us mentality - news reported that levies were constructed to last in no more than a class 3 hurricane, improvements would be too costly. (cheaper now than what the costs are going to be)

Flooding is what is hampering rescue efforts. Mind you lil hard to understand why someone stays when they are told to leave - goes again to mentality that we will be alright.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Looters:

Because there is little law enforcement personel, no jails, and plenty of armed looters, there have been public officials actually proposing shooting them.

But, for many, looting food and such also is survival.

Levies:

All civilizations believe they can beat mother nature.

Levies weren't built and a city erected.

The levies came as the city sank.

New Orleans, and this situation, were cited as the most probably disaster senario to hit this country.

The result is pretty much what was expected.

But, at what point do we tell everyone to leave their city and find a new home?

I think we now have that window of opportunity.

Flooding/staying:

Flooding is the big reason the efforts are so slow.

This storm surge hasn't receded, allowing access.

There are 2 carriers bringing more helicopters to the Gulf.

Many of these people have ridden out storms for decades.

This same storm passed over Florida like nothing special.

These factors feed the "It will be okay" mindset.

But, when the warnings came, there was a mass exodus.

Unfortunately, there were only so many planes, trains, buses and cars.

Many couldn't afford the fares when they were available.

The little good news:

The flow into the city seems to have stopped.

The basin now appears "filled".

Repairing the levies can now be attempted.

Whether or not rebuilding takes place, they need to first dry it out for access/salvage.

Personally, I think it's time for a relocated New Orleans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You said it in a nice way , I couldnt stop cussing at this OP

[chownah]

The next step is to remove the water...here is a cut and paste from The United States Army Corps of Engineers....they are the US agency that controls the water level on the Mississippi River and also involved with the flood control measures throughout the US of A. Google for them and you might find some more info...I'm tired.

Q&As on unwatering New Orleans

Q. How long will it take to get the water out of New Orleans?

A. We are unsure. A number of factors play into this. First, Lake Pontchartrain is at roughly 4.5 feet above sea level and falling. The city is at a lower elevation so water will continue to flow into it until it equalizes.

Once the breach on the 7th Street Canal is closed, Pump Station 6 can pump 10,000 cubic feet per second.

Once the breaches are closed and all of the pumps are running, the pumps can lower the water level ½ inch per hour or about a foot per day. We can get the water level to sea level in four and a half days. The ½ inch rate assumes the late is at normal levels. That would create pumping inefficiency, as could trash in drains and canals that feed into the pump stations.

That’s a “Best Case” scenario. We don’t know the conditions of all of the pumps. Fortunately most of the pump motors and controllers are at an elevation greater than 5 feet and we hope they weren’t submerged. There could be other unforeseen problems.

We assume the pumps have not been submerged since most pumps are at an elevation greater than five feet above sea level.

Pumps are operated and maintained by the local sewage and drainage districts.

Q. Why did the levees fail?

A. What failed were actually floodwalls, not levees. This was caused by overtopping which caused scouring, or an eating away of the earthen support, which then basically undermined the wall.

These walls and levees were designed to withstand a fast moving category 3 hurricane. Katrina was a strong 4 at landfall, and conditions exceeded the design.

[aughie]

A million people will become homeless as more and more informations gathers. Homes may still be standing but they will be condemmed as unsafe and unfit for habitation and they will be torn down. This disaster is unbelievebly huge.

Edited September 1, 2005 by aughie

[meelousee]

In watching CNN and FOX, I'm stunned by how disorganized the hurricane clean-up is going, how under-manned/womanned the government is, and at the sheer heartlessness of looters.

Even with a few days of notice (something that Thailand didn't have the luxury of), I'm shocked by the following:

1. Hundreds of people died (faulty evacuation plan?  Irresponsible citizens?)

2. They are still looking for more dead

3. The evacuation plan seemed flawed from before the hurricane hit

4. The levee in New Orleans broke - the fact that they built a city with the majority of the city below sea level - and this from the country that put a man on the moon!

5. There is talk of disease issues for some time to come.  Thailand got very bad press from so-called experts like the CDC and WHO stating that the worst was yet to come.  That diseases will likely kill more people than those who died in the water.  On the contrary, within hours, Thai villages had mountains of water and food.  I know, I delivered a lot too.

6. Rescue workers are leaving dead and decomposing bodies safely removed from the debris.  They had plenty of time to get enough rescue workers down there!

7. Some looters are now armed and have shot a cop in the head in New Orleans

8. All of the looters shown on FOX news are non-white (I'm sure they can find some white people to video tape too)

9. People who want to get out now can't get gas because the electricity is out at the gas stations.  Hello, generators, hello.

I was amazed by how well organized the Thai government was immediately after our disaster. 

Yes, there are plenty of examples of things that didn't go well and that still might not be settled even now, but the response time, the amount of rescue workers, military, medical personnel and folks from all walks of life (both Thai and foreign) was heartlifting. 

In my eyes, Thailand is 1st World on responding to disasters and the US could use a swift kick in their 3rd World quality back side. 

I'm an American expat, by the way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Look,

As soon as a disaster strikes no matter if it be just one of you own family or a whole city, the buzzards circle and takes what they feel is theirs.

This is not a new even it has happened in every family every disaster, no matter how small or how big, in Bam Iran, in Acea Indonesia, in each event the buzzards come out, not new not to be shocked about. Not even in a so called civilized country or a 3rd nation. You have seen it in the tsunami or you were not looking!

A fact of life not matter if you like it or not, yes I am appalled but don’t point your finger without washing your own hands it will happen even with a single matriarch or family leaders death.

The human condition is that we become old too fast and wise to slow.

Live with it or be overcome because of it the, condition will not change unless we change. If you want to change this, do as you would want to be done to or the karma you make may come with regrets.

sdb.

Edited September 1, 2005 by meelousee

[Dara]

In watching CNN and FOX, I'm stunned by how disorganized the hurricane clean-up is going, how under-manned/womanned the government is, and at the sheer heartlessness of looters.

Even with a few days of notice (something that Thailand didn't have the luxury of), I'm shocked by the following:

1. Hundreds of people died (faulty evacuation plan?  Irresponsible citizens?)

2. They are still looking for more dead

3. The evacuation plan seemed flawed from before the hurricane hit

4. The levee in New Orleans broke - the fact that they built a city with the majority of the city below sea level - and this from the country that put a man on the moon!

5. There is talk of disease issues for some time to come.  Thailand got very bad press from so-called experts like the CDC and WHO stating that the worst was yet to come.  That diseases will likely kill more people than those who died in the water.  On the contrary, within hours, Thai villages had mountains of water and food.  I know, I delivered a lot too.

6. Rescue workers are leaving dead and decomposing bodies safely removed from the debris.  They had plenty of time to get enough rescue workers down there!

7. Some looters are now armed and have shot a cop in the head in New Orleans

8. All of the looters shown on FOX news are non-white (I'm sure they can find some white people to video tape too)

9. People who want to get out now can't get gas because the electricity is out at the gas stations.  Hello, generators, hello.

I was amazed by how well organized the Thai government was immediately after our disaster. 

Yes, there are plenty of examples of things that didn't go well and that still might not be settled even now, but the response time, the amount of rescue workers, military, medical personnel and folks from all walks of life (both Thai and foreign) was heartlifting. 

In my eyes, Thailand is 1st World on responding to disasters and the US could use a swift kick in their 3rd World quality back side. 

I'm an American expat, by the way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Complaining about what happened won't help anything. Being mad at what you can't do anything about is useless. Here is something constructive that everyone can do:

Hurricane Katrina Disaster Relief The link for the interactive site is http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate. For just info, see below....

Thank you for supporting the Hurricane 2005 Relief operation by contributing to the American Red Cross Hurricane 2005 Relief and Other Events designation.

To reduce donor wait times caused by high volume, the American Red Cross has partnered with Yahoo! to help handle donation processing.

Hurricane 2005 Relief

Victims of Hurricane Katrina are attempting to recover from the massive storm that is still making its way across the Mid-Atlantic States. American Red Cross volunteers have been deployed to the hardest hit areas of Katrina’s destruction, supplying hundreds of thousands victims left homeless with critical necessities.

By making a financial gift to Hurricane 2005 Relief, the Red Cross can provide shelter, food, counseling and other assistance to those in need.

Donation Options

By selecting a payment level below, your donation will help the Red Cross respond to the needs of those directly and indirectly affected by this global emergency. $25.00

$50.00

$75.00

$100.00

$250.00

$500.00

$1,000.00

$2,500.00

$5,000.00

If you would like to stipulate your gift for the Red Cross in an amount that is not listed, please contact the 1-800 HELP NOW (1-800-435-7669.)

Pic of satelite

The American Red Cross is not a government agency and all Red Cross disaster assistance is free thanks to the generosity of people like you.The value of your donation is increased by the fact that the ratio of volunteer Red Cross workers to paid staff is almost 36 to one. Contributions to the American Red Cross, a tax-exempt organization under Section 501©(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, are deductible for computing income and estate taxes.

This donation site is hosted by Yahoo! on behalf of the American Red Cross. The American Red Cross pays nothing to Yahoo! for operating this Web site. One-hundred percent of your donation is collected by the American Red Cross.

By donating through this page, you consent to disclosure of any contact information you provide in connection with your donation by Yahoo! to the American Red Cross pursuant to the Yahoo! privacy policy for use by the American Red Cross consistent with its own privacy policy, including future donation solicitation efforts.

Although Yahoo! does not deduct any amount from your donation, Yahoo! does not control fees or charges that may be independently imposed by financial institutions for debits or credits to credit cards, ATM/check cards, or deposit accounts held with those institutions. By making a donation through this page, you consent to those deductions, if any.

Hosted by Yahoo! Web Hosting

[Abandon]

Keep it cool people, lotta cussin' going on here.

As for being below sea level, as pointed out the city was above sea level, but sank with the weight of the city on infirm ground. Which is exactly the way that Bangkok is going at present. So why is Bangkok being built up, and not moved elewhere ??? Hard to solve really.

[The_Moog]

So why is Bangkok being built up, and not moved elewhere ???

er, Pardon?

Where we gonna move it? The Moon?

We's stayin'.

[mpdkorat]

In watching CNN and FOX, I'm stunned by how disorganized the hurricane clean-up is going, how under-manned/womanned the government is, and at the sheer heartlessness of looters.

Even with a few days of notice (something that Thailand didn't have the luxury of), I'm shocked by the following:

1. Hundreds of people died (faulty evacuation plan?  Irresponsible citizens?)

2. They are still looking for more dead

3. The evacuation plan seemed flawed from before the hurricane hit

4. The levee in New Orleans broke - the fact that they built a city with the majority of the city below sea level - and this from the country that put a man on the moon!

5. There is talk of disease issues for some time to come.  Thailand got very bad press from so-called experts like the CDC and WHO stating that the worst was yet to come.  That diseases will likely kill more people than those who died in the water.  On the contrary, within hours, Thai villages had mountains of water and food.  I know, I delivered a lot too. 

In my eyes, Thailand is 1st World on responding to disasters and the US could use a swift kick in their 3rd World quality back side. 

I'm an American expat, by the way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would just like to pass on my deepest sympathy to the relatives of the deceased and those who have lost their homes and livelihood in this terrible disaster. And I give my moral support to all the rescue workers who are already doing a sterling job trying to sort out this bl**dy mess.

[khall64au]

Legendary pianist Fats Domino missing in hurricane

NEW YORK (AFP) - Legendary New Orleans singer-pianist Fats Domino, famous for 1950s hits "Ain't That a Shame" and "Blueberry Hill", was missing in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, his agent told AFP.

"We have not found him and we are trying to find him," said Al Embry, his manager of many years.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/050901/19/vrca.html

[Mr. Farang]

New Orleans in Anarchy With Fights, Rapes

By ALLEN G. BREED, Associated Press Writer

New Orleans descended into anarchy Thursday, as corpses lay abandoned in street medians, fights and fires broke out and storm survivors battled for seats on the buses that would carry them away from the chaos. The tired and hungry seethed, saying they had been forsaken. "This is a desperate SOS," mayor Ray Nagin said.

"We are out here like pure animals," the Rev. Issac Clark said outside the New Orleans Convention Center, where he and other evacuees had been waiting for buses for days amid the filth and the dead.

"I'm not sure I'm going to get out of here alive," said tourist Larry Mitzel of Saskatoon, Canada, who handed a reporter his business card in case he goes missing. "I'm scared of riots. I'm scared of the locals. We might get caught in the crossfire."

Four days after Hurricane Katrina roared in with a devastating blow that inflicted potentially thousands of deaths, the frustration, fear and anger mounted, despite the promise of 1,400 National Guardsmen a day to stop the looting, plans for a $10 billion recovery bill in Congress and a government relief effort President Bush called the biggest in U.S. history.

New Orleans' top emergency management official called that effort a "national disgrace" and questioned when reinforcements would actually reach the increasingly lawless city.

About 15,000 to 20,000 people who had taken shelter at New Orleans convention center grew increasingly hostile after waiting for buses for days amid the filth and the dead. Police Chief Eddie Compass said he sent in 88 officers to quell the situation at the building, but they were quickly driven back by an angry mob.

"We have individuals who are getting raped, we have individuals who are getting beaten," Compass said. "Tourists are walking in that direction and they are getting preyed upon."

A military helicopter tried to land at the convention center several times to drop off food and water. But the rushing crowd forced the choppers to back off. Troopers then tossed the supplies to the crowd from 10 feet off the ground and flew away.

In hopes of defusing the situation at the convention center, Mayor Ray Nagin gave the refugees permission to march across a bridge to the city's unflooded west bank for whatever relief they could find. But the bedlam made that difficult.

"This is a desperate SOS," Nagin said in a statement. "Right now we are out of resources at the convention center and don't anticipate enough buses."

At least seven bodies were scattered outside the convention center, a makeshift staging area for those rescued from rooftops, attics and highways. The sidewalks were packed with people without food, water or medical care, and with no sign of law enforcement.

An old man in a chaise lounge lay dead in a grassy median as hungry babies wailed around him. Around the corner, an elderly woman lay dead in her wheelchair, covered up by a blanket, and another body lay beside her wrapped in a sheet.

"I don't treat my dog like that," 47-year-old Daniel Edwards said as he pointed at the woman in the wheelchair.

"You can do everything for other countries, but you can't do nothing for your own people," he added. "You can go overseas with the military, but you can't get them down here."

The street outside the center, above the floodwaters, smelled of urine and feces, and was choked with dirty diapers, old bottles and garbage.

"They've been teasing us with buses for four days," Edwards said. "They're telling us they're going to come get us one day, and then they don't show up."

Every so often, an armored state police vehicle cruised in front of the convention center with four or five officers in riot gear with automatic weapons. But there was no sign of help from the National Guard.

At one point the crowd began to chant "We want help! We want help!" Later, a woman, screaming, went on the front steps of the convention center and led the crowd in reciting the 23rd Psalm, "The Lord is my shepherd ..."

"We are out here like pure animals," the Issac Clark said.

"We've got people dying out here — two babies have died, a woman died, a man died," said Helen Cheek. "We haven't had no food, we haven't had no water, we haven't had nothing. They just brought us here and dropped us."

Tourist Debbie Durso of Washington, Mich., said she asked a police officer for assistance and his response was, "'Go to ###### — it's every man for himself.'"

"This is just insanity," she said. "We have no food, no water ... all these trucks and buses go by and they do nothing but wave."

At the hot and stinking Superdome, where 30,000 were being evacuated by bus to the Houston Astrodome, fistfights and fires erupted amid a seething sea of tense, suffering people who waited in a lines that stretched a half-mile to board yellow school buses.

After a traffic jam kept buses from arriving for nearly four hours, a near-riot broke out in the scramble to get on the buses that finally did show up, with a group of refugees breaking through a line of heavily armed National Guardsmen.

One military policeman was shot in the leg as he and a man scuffled for the MP's rifle, police Capt. Ernie Demmo said. The man was arrested.

Some of those among the mostly poor crowd had been in the dome for four days without air conditioning, working toilets or a place to bathe. An ambulance service airlifting the sick and injured out of the Superdome suspended flights as too dangerous after it was reported that a bullet was fired at a military helicopter.

"If they're just taking us anywhere, just anywhere, I say praise God," said refugee John Phillip. "Nothing could be worse than what we've been through."

By Thursday evening, 11 hours after the military began evacuating the Superdome, the arena held 10,000 more people than it did at dawn. National Guard Capt. John Pollard said evacuees from around the city poured into the Superdome and swelled the crowd to about 30,000 because they believed the arena was the best place to get a ride out of town.

As he watched a line snaking for blocks through ankle-deep waters, New Orleans' emergency operations chief Terry Ebbert blamed the inadequate response on the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

"This is not a FEMA operation. I haven't seen a single FEMA guy," he said. He added: "We can send massive amounts of aid to tsunami victims, but we can't bail out the city of New Orleans."

FEMA officials said some operations had to be suspended in areas where gunfire has broken out.

A day after Nagin took 1,500 police officers off search-and-rescue duty to try to restore order in the streets, there were continued reports of looting, shootings, gunfire and carjackings — and not all the crimes were driven by greed.

When some hospitals try to airlift patients, Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Cheri Ben-Iesan said, "there are people just taking potshots at police and at helicopters, telling them, `You better come get my family.'"

Outside a looted Rite-Aid drugstore, some people were anxious to show they needed what they were taking. A gray-haired man who would not give his name pulled up his T-shirt to show a surgery scar and explained that he needs pads for incontinence.

"I'm a Christian. I feel bad going in there," he said.

Earl Baker carried toothpaste, toothbrushes and deodorant. "Look, I'm only getting necessities," he said. "All of this is personal hygiene. I ain't getting nothing to get drunk or high with."

While floodwaters in the city appeared to stabilize, efforts continued to plug three breaches that had opened up in the levee system that protects this below-sea-level city.

Helicopters dropped sandbags into the breach and pilings were being pounded into the mouth of the canal Thursday to close its connection to Lake Pontchartrain, state Transportation Secretary Johnny Bradberry said. He said contractors had completed building a rock road to let heavy equipment roll to the area by midnight.

The next step called for using about 250 concrete road barriers to seal the gap.

In Washington, the White House said Bush will tour the devastated Gulf Coast region on Friday and has asked his father, former President George H.W. Bush, and former President Clinton to lead a private fund-raising campaign for victims.

The president urged a crackdown on the lawlessness.

"I think there ought to be zero tolerance of people breaking the law during an emergency such as this — whether it be looting, or price gouging at the gasoline pump, or taking advantage of charitable giving or insurance fraud," Bush said. "And I've made that clear to our attorney general. The citizens ought to be working together."

Donald Dudley, a 55-year-old New Orleans seafood merchant, complained that when he and other hungry refugees broke into the kitchen of the convention center and tried to prepare food, the National Guard chased them away.

"They pulled guns and told us we had to leave that kitchen or they would blow our ###### brains out," he said. "We don't want their help. Give us some vehicles and we'll get ourselves out of here!"

[legaleagle]

The French

From what I have gathered, the French Quarter is actually on a bit of high ground. It hasn't been flooded to the same degree as the rest of NOLA. So the french did a fair job choosing their terroir.

Rebuilding

This is from the Speaker of the House of the US House, from my home state of Illinois (Chicago). He doesn't want to rebuild.

http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/in..._09.html#075833

Evacuation

Certainly some people decided to ride out the storm, and they were damned fools as a Cajun might say. But I've been to NOLA many times, and one thing that is obvious there is the lack of wealth, especially in the black population. They never really had much chance in life, in my opinion. Huge numbers of these people likely didn't have a car to leave the city, and they probably also didn't have the $25 for the bus, and the $50 a night for the hotel, and the $7 to pay for each meal on the road, etc.. They were stuck. That is why so many stayed.

Al Qaeda may actually be to Blame

Although meteorologists might disagree, there is evidence that Katrina may actually have been a terrorist attack.

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/0....183333333.html

AND FINALLY,

A Blog from the Field

This guy is writing in real time.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/

[thaibebop]

In watching CNN and FOX, I'm stunned by how disorganized the hurricane clean-up is going, how under-manned/womanned the government is, and at the sheer heartlessness of looters.

Even with a few days of notice (something that Thailand didn't have the luxury of), I'm shocked by the following:

1. Hundreds of people died (faulty evacuation plan?  Irresponsible citizens?)

2. They are still looking for more dead

3. The evacuation plan seemed flawed from before the hurricane hit

4. The levee in New Orleans broke - the fact that they built a city with the majority of the city below sea level - and this from the country that put a man on the moon!

5. There is talk of disease issues for some time to come.  Thailand got very bad press from so-called experts like the CDC and WHO stating that the worst was yet to come.  That diseases will likely kill more people than those who died in the water.  On the contrary, within hours, Thai villages had mountains of water and food.  I know, I delivered a lot too.

6. Rescue workers are leaving dead and decomposing bodies safely removed from the debris.  They had plenty of time to get enough rescue workers down there!

7. Some looters are now armed and have shot a cop in the head in New Orleans

8. All of the looters shown on FOX news are non-white (I'm sure they can find some white people to video tape too)

9. People who want to get out now can't get gas because the electricity is out at the gas stations.  Hello, generators, hello.

I was amazed by how well organized the Thai government was immediately after our disaster. 

Yes, there are plenty of examples of things that didn't go well and that still might not be settled even now, but the response time, the amount of rescue workers, military, medical personnel and folks from all walks of life (both Thai and foreign) was heartlifting. 

In my eyes, Thailand is 1st World on responding to disasters and the US could use a swift kick in their 3rd World quality back side. 

I'm an American expat, by the way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are an American, why am I not surprised? BTW, I am an American.

Your view of how things should be is off, like most Americans. America is no differnet then any other country, really bad things can happen when we are not prepared.

I don't know what news source you're getting your info from but food and help are there and peolpe are being evacuated as we speak, or type.

Where are the white people you say? Whites are the minority in the Big Easy, they are mostly in rural areas.

And like most Americans you lack understanding of your own history. We didn't build New Orleans, pal. "New" Orleans, ya know named after the French city Orleans. BTW, it was apart of the Louisiana Purchase.

You shouldn't be so critical, after all you aren't in America right now are you?

[thaibebop]

You completely ignore the fact this was a Hurricane not as Tsunami and thus the destruction to infrastructure extends hundreds of miles inland.  Very, very different situation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, you think that the pathetic response that the US government is giving is somehow acceptable?

If I'm misunderstanding you... sorry. But it seems that a storm surge is a storm surge. It's merely a matter of degree.

OK, just looking at New Orleans then... this was the city that the news media and the weather agencies said would get hit and they did. I'm not talking about all the damage that went down inland. Look at how mismanaged the rescue process is going in this one city - I'm appauled.

If we didn't have our military fighting for oil, we'd have a few more hands to help.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what the National Guard is for dope! What rock have you been under?

[thaibebop]

The first boat to leave Phi Phi was not carrying injured people but looters escaping with their booty.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Plenty of Looters with Guns in New Orleans. Same when Cyclone Tracy hit Darwin about 30 years ago. Looters seem to follow all carnage.

I wonder if the place is going to be ready for Mardi Gras, I ws pleased to see one of the Bead-Makers interviewed on CNN was OK. I wanted to see how many beads my wife could collect.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What kind of joke is that?

You're pretty sick, man.

[Galong]

In watching CNN and FOX, I'm stunned by how disorganized the hurricane clean-up is going, how under-manned/womanned the government is, and at the sheer heartlessness of looters.

Even with a few days of notice (something that Thailand didn't have the luxury of), I'm shocked by the following:

1. Hundreds of people died (faulty evacuation plan?  Irresponsible citizens?)

2. They are still looking for more dead

3. The evacuation plan seemed flawed from before the hurricane hit

4. The levee in New Orleans broke - the fact that they built a city with the majority of the city below sea level - and this from the country that put a man on the moon!

5. There is talk of disease issues for some time to come.  Thailand got very bad press from so-called experts like the CDC and WHO stating that the worst was yet to come.  That diseases will likely kill more people than those who died in the water.  On the contrary, within hours, Thai villages had mountains of water and food.  I know, I delivered a lot too.

6. Rescue workers are leaving dead and decomposing bodies safely removed from the debris.  They had plenty of time to get enough rescue workers down there!

7. Some looters are now armed and have shot a cop in the head in New Orleans

8. All of the looters shown on FOX news are non-white (I'm sure they can find some white people to video tape too)

9. People who want to get out now can't get gas because the electricity is out at the gas stations.  Hello, generators, hello.

I was amazed by how well organized the Thai government was immediately after our disaster. 

Yes, there are plenty of examples of things that didn't go well and that still might not be settled even now, but the response time, the amount of rescue workers, military, medical personnel and folks from all walks of life (both Thai and foreign) was heartlifting. 

In my eyes, Thailand is 1st World on responding to disasters and the US could use a swift kick in their 3rd World quality back side. 

I'm an American expat, by the way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where do you think all the money for thailand and the people who helped out came from ignorant TRoll . you know we are better off here without people like you . You actually made me sick. Focker

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"All the money"??? Well, let's see, there was a lot from many, many countries. The US sent money, but not as much as they could.

Shouldn't you be in school right now? You couldn't possibly be an adult judging by your calling me a Troll, letting my opinions make you sick and saying that "we are better off here without people like you". I'm always impressed by keyboard machismo. I wonder, how many people do you talk to like this in a face-to-face situation? it's nice to see how you feel about views that oppose yours...

I have a right as a US citizen to complain. It's called Freedom of Speech. When I see flaws and incompetence the US government, I complain. The fact of the matter is that the response and rescue isn't going well. The fact is that they knew they has a massive hurricane off the coast well in advance. The fact is that the rescue effort and looting problem should have been planned out ahead of time. Yes, I know, the police can't get to the areas being looted because they can't drive there. They could however, drop their donuts and get there by boat or something. The looters are getting there, why can't the police? Where's the National Guard?

I know that the area is threatened by hurricanes every year. I am well-aware of the fact that the "cry wolf" situation is partly to blame. HOWEVER, New Orleans is in an area that-- sooner or later-- was going to get hit hard. The government should have been ready for the "just in case" in this case.

I don't mean to disrespect the volunteers and rescue workers. If you think that's what I was talking about, sorry, perhaps I didn't express myself very well. I am complaining that the US government dropped the ball.

I watch FOX news to see how stupid a big chunk of the US population actually is. The God, Guns and Glory theme in FOX is a cause for concern. Red necks are dangerous. I want to know my enemy, so I watch FOX from time to time. I don't get the BBC.

[sendbaht]

Everyone is bringing up some good points on both sides. Thanks.

Good to see differant views.

Responce time is never fast enough for people suffering, but it looks like they are trying.

[Curt]

Everyone is bringing up some good points on both sides. Thanks.

Good to see differant views.

Responce time is never fast enough for people suffering, but it looks like they are trying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's Bush's fault.

It's the Republicans.

It's the Democrats

It's the blacks.

It's the whites.

It's the gays.

It's the moral majority.

It's global warming.

We should have seen it coming.

We should have been prepared.

Where are the buses?

Where is the food?

Where were they yesterday?

Why can't they do more?

It's always easy to be an armchair quarterback.

Just be thankful we have that luxury.

[Galong]

Galong, you need to take your head out of your arse old mate. Comparing the clean-up operation in Thailand from the devastation of a tsunami smashing inland no more than a hundred metres or so to that of the response in the US from a mega-hurricane reaching hundreds of miles inland is rather dumb. The army and emergency services could simply drive to the little island of Phuket from any direction and administer aid; bit different in the States where the devastation is total...city-wide and state-wide. If you want to be pedantic, why the &lt;deleted&gt; didn't the relevant office in Muang Thai worn of the imminent tsunami they were told would probably come? Face loss for possible non-show obviously, but how many wasted lives did that cost?

Stop wagging your finger and engage the brain first. People were warned, people stayed, the land is lower than sea level, people chose to live there.

Regards the looters: what was that about that piss ant wandering into the jewellers in Phuket between waves??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Th Thai government took care of the immediate needs of the tsunami victims - clean water, food, shelter. After that, some elements of the Thai government reverted back their normal anti-Robin Hood mode of stealing from the poor and giving to the rich. This is NOT unique to Thailand however, it happens everywhere... even in the US.

As I live in Phuket, I saw first-hand how things were handled. That is why I was impressed. I also did a lot of volunteer work in the villages north of Khao Lak. I saw first-hand, that a government that seldom does anything that impresses me, did a very worthy job of tending to the immediate needs of the victims.

Looters in any country who are stealing non-essential items should be dealt with by the harshest means available to the legal system. The jewelry looters in Patong should have been either shot or put away for a long time in my opinion.

I agree with you that there was the possibility of a warning in Thailand, but the powers that be didn't want to potentially hurt tourism... totally unacceptable and something that will take years to repair... I mean the faith that tourists will have in our warning system.

FYI, I wasn't comparing the waves to the storm... or perhaps I didn't express myself clearly. What I was saying was that the response from the 1st World country wasn't as effective and coordinated as the response to a separate catastrophe (tsunami).

[Galong]

You completely ignore the fact this was a Hurricane not as Tsunami and thus the destruction to infrastructure extends hundreds of miles inland.  Very, very different situation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, you think that the pathetic response that the US government is giving is somehow acceptable?

If I'm misunderstanding you... sorry. But it seems that a storm surge is a storm surge. It's merely a matter of degree.

OK, just looking at New Orleans then... this was the city that the news media and the weather agencies said would get hit and they did. I'm not talking about all the damage that went down inland. Look at how mismanaged the rescue process is going in this one city - I'm appauled.

If we didn't have our military fighting for oil, we'd have a few more hands to help.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what the National Guard is for dope! What rock have you been under?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, the National Guard is for "dope". I thought that was illegal. I'm guessing that you meant that, "that's what the National Guard is for, dope!" It's called a comma.

So, watching CNN and FOX, I don't see much of the National Guard.

[Galong]

The OP completely ignores the looting and murders that took place in Thailand in the immediate aftermath of the Tsunami.

The first boat to leave Phi Phi was not carrying injured people but looters escaping with their booty.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By 'OP' do you mean original poster? If so, you've missed the point of the posting. The point was that the response to the disaster was and still is NOT as good as it should be from a country that has so much money and rescue equipment at hand.

Looters and murders should be either shot or taken to jail. I don't see how what I said makes you think that I'm ignoring the looting and crap that went on in Thailand after the tsunami. Geez, there seems to be a lot of folks on this forum that like to read more into what I said than what I said.

[Galong]

New Orleans in Anarchy With Fights, Rapes

By ALLEN G. BREED, Associated Press Writer

New Orleans descended into anarchy Thursday, as corpses lay abandoned in street medians, fights and fires broke out and storm survivors battled for seats on the buses that would carry them away from the chaos. The tired and hungry seethed, saying they had been forsaken. "This is a desperate SOS," mayor Ray Nagin said.

"We are out here like pure animals," the Rev. Issac Clark said outside the New Orleans Convention Center, where he and other evacuees had been waiting for buses for days amid the filth and the dead.

"I'm not sure I'm going to get out of here alive," said tourist Larry Mitzel of Saskatoon, Canada, who handed a reporter his business card in case he goes missing. "I'm scared of riots. I'm scared of the locals. We might get caught in the crossfire."

Four days after Hurricane Katrina roared in with a devastating blow that inflicted potentially thousands of deaths, the frustration, fear and anger mounted, despite the promise of 1,400 National Guardsmen a day to stop the looting, plans for a $10 billion recovery bill in Congress and a government relief effort President Bush called the biggest in U.S. history.

New Orleans' top emergency management official called that effort a "national disgrace" and questioned when reinforcements would actually reach the increasingly lawless city.

About 15,000 to 20,000 people who had taken shelter at New Orleans convention center grew increasingly hostile after waiting for buses for days amid the filth and the dead. Police Chief Eddie Compass said he sent in 88 officers to quell the situation at the building, but they were quickly driven back by an angry mob.

"We have individuals who are getting raped, we have individuals who are getting beaten," Compass said. "Tourists are walking in that direction and they are getting preyed upon."

A military helicopter tried to land at the convention center several times to drop off food and water. But the rushing crowd forced the choppers to back off. Troopers then tossed the supplies to the crowd from 10 feet off the ground and flew away.

In hopes of defusing the situation at the convention center, Mayor Ray Nagin gave the refugees permission to march across a bridge to the city's unflooded west bank for whatever relief they could find. But the bedlam made that difficult.

"This is a desperate SOS," Nagin said in a statement. "Right now we are out of resources at the convention center and don't anticipate enough buses."

At least seven bodies were scattered outside the convention center, a makeshift staging area for those rescued from rooftops, attics and highways. The sidewalks were packed with people without food, water or medical care, and with no sign of law enforcement.

An old man in a chaise lounge lay dead in a grassy median as hungry babies wailed around him. Around the corner, an elderly woman lay dead in her wheelchair, covered up by a blanket, and another body lay beside her wrapped in a sheet.

"I don't treat my dog like that," 47-year-old Daniel Edwards said as he pointed at the woman in the wheelchair.

"You can do everything for other countries, but you can't do nothing for your own people," he added. "You can go overseas with the military, but you can't get them down here."

The street outside the center, above the floodwaters, smelled of urine and feces, and was choked with dirty diapers, old bottles and garbage.

"They've been teasing us with buses for four days," Edwards said. "They're telling us they're going to come get us one day, and then they don't show up."

Every so often, an armored state police vehicle cruised in front of the convention center with four or five officers in riot gear with automatic weapons. But there was no sign of help from the National Guard.

At one point the crowd began to chant "We want help! We want help!" Later, a woman, screaming, went on the front steps of the convention center and led the crowd in reciting the 23rd Psalm, "The Lord is my shepherd ..."

"We are out here like pure animals," the Issac Clark said.

"We've got people dying out here — two babies have died, a woman died, a man died," said Helen Cheek. "We haven't had no food, we haven't had no water, we haven't had nothing. They just brought us here and dropped us."

Tourist Debbie Durso of Washington, Mich., said she asked a police officer for assistance and his response was, "'Go to ###### — it's every man for himself.'"

"This is just insanity," she said. "We have no food, no water ... all these trucks and buses go by and they do nothing but wave."

At the hot and stinking Superdome, where 30,000 were being evacuated by bus to the Houston Astrodome, fistfights and fires erupted amid a seething sea of tense, suffering people who waited in a lines that stretched a half-mile to board yellow school buses.

After a traffic jam kept buses from arriving for nearly four hours, a near-riot broke out in the scramble to get on the buses that finally did show up, with a group of refugees breaking through a line of heavily armed National Guardsmen.

One military policeman was shot in the leg as he and a man scuffled for the MP's rifle, police Capt. Ernie Demmo said. The man was arrested.

Some of those among the mostly poor crowd had been in the dome for four days without air conditioning, working toilets or a place to bathe. An ambulance service airlifting the sick and injured out of the Superdome suspended flights as too dangerous after it was reported that a bullet was fired at a military helicopter.

"If they're just taking us anywhere, just anywhere, I say praise God," said refugee John Phillip. "Nothing could be worse than what we've been through."

By Thursday evening, 11 hours after the military began evacuating the Superdome, the arena held 10,000 more people than it did at dawn. National Guard Capt. John Pollard said evacuees from around the city poured into the Superdome and swelled the crowd to about 30,000 because they believed the arena was the best place to get a ride out of town.

As he watched a line snaking for blocks through ankle-deep waters, New Orleans' emergency operations chief Terry Ebbert blamed the inadequate response on the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

"This is not a FEMA operation. I haven't seen a single FEMA guy," he said. He added: "We can send massive amounts of aid to tsunami victims, but we can't bail out the city of New Orleans."

FEMA officials said some operations had to be suspended in areas where gunfire has broken out.

A day after Nagin took 1,500 police officers off search-and-rescue duty to try to restore order in the streets, there were continued reports of looting, shootings, gunfire and carjackings — and not all the crimes were driven by greed.

When some hospitals try to airlift patients, Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Cheri Ben-Iesan said, "there are people just taking potshots at police and at helicopters, telling them, `You better come get my family.'"

Outside a looted Rite-Aid drugstore, some people were anxious to show they needed what they were taking. A gray-haired man who would not give his name pulled up his T-shirt to show a surgery scar and explained that he needs pads for incontinence.

"I'm a Christian. I feel bad going in there," he said.

Earl Baker carried toothpaste, toothbrushes and deodorant. "Look, I'm only getting necessities," he said. "All of this is personal hygiene. I ain't getting nothing to get drunk or high with."

While floodwaters in the city appeared to stabilize, efforts continued to plug three breaches that had opened up in the levee system that protects this below-sea-level city.

Helicopters dropped sandbags into the breach and pilings were being pounded into the mouth of the canal Thursday to close its connection to Lake Pontchartrain, state Transportation Secretary Johnny Bradberry said. He said contractors had completed building a rock road to let heavy equipment roll to the area by midnight.

The next step called for using about 250 concrete road barriers to seal the gap.

In Washington, the White House said Bush will tour the devastated Gulf Coast region on Friday and has asked his father, former President George H.W. Bush, and former President Clinton to lead a private fund-raising campaign for victims.

The president urged a crackdown on the lawlessness.

"I think there ought to be zero tolerance of people breaking the law during an emergency such as this — whether it be looting, or price gouging at the gasoline pump, or taking advantage of charitable giving or insurance fraud," Bush said. "And I've made that clear to our attorney general. The citizens ought to be working together."

Donald Dudley, a 55-year-old New Orleans seafood merchant, complained that when he and other hungry refugees broke into the kitchen of the convention center and tried to prepare food, the National Guard chased them away.

"They pulled guns and told us we had to leave that kitchen or they would blow our ###### brains out," he said. "We don't want their help. Give us some vehicles and we'll get ourselves out of here!"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Mr. Farang. There are many examples in your posting of what my original posting was trying address. The facts of the matter are that places like New Orleans resemble Bagdad right now.

"This is just insanity," she said. "We have no food, no water ... all these trucks and buses go by and they do nothing but wave." [unquote]

Funny, other posters have said that the immediate needs have been taken care of. They even called me names... ouch, like I really care what they think.

When some hospitals try to airlift patients, Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Cheri Ben-Iesan said, "there are people just taking potshots at police and at helicopters, telling them, `You better come get my family.'" [unquote]

I rest my case... the response and rescue isn't up to snuff. In a country that has so much at their disposal, this simply is not acceptable.

I am NOT disrespecting the rescuers. They are doing the best that they can. They simply are in a situation that is beyond their capacity. The government has dropped the ball, not the rescuers... understand everyone???

[Nickerelastic]

I'm shocked, nae gobsmacked at the complete mismanagement (sp) of the american government with regard to this disaster.

What next?

america seeks disaster fund aid?

Edited September 2, 2005 by Nickerelastic

[Nickerelastic]

Make you own mind up.

I've been watching the BBC news

Edited September 2, 2005 by Nickerelastic