14 Dead, At Least 20 Injured As Bus Plunges Into Ravine In Nan

[Who, me ?]

It does not matter whether it was a minibus or a bus......... It was anyway a public transportation vehicle....

RIP to all victims.

I was driving last week end heading North. I was doing 120 - 130 km / h, with a very good and perfectly maintained car. I know that my speed was already over the limit. You can not imagine how many loaded minibus passed me. And how many buses tried to pass, some staying on my side, forcing me to let them go...!!!!!!!! Scary.

These lunatic drivers are definitely not trained for this kind of job, and they do not care about other people lives...

I feel really bad for all those people who have no other choice than using those minibus and buses...

Sorry was it a minibus in this sad story?

Regarding the original reporting and quoting, let's wait and see what the injured have to say (when they can) before assuming the bus driver didnt know the roads and just drove off it - although that might be convenient for some to believe.

[pisico]

ACCIDENT

At least ten teachers killed when bus plunges into ravine

By The Nation

Nan/Chiang Rai

Fourteen teachers were killed and 18 other injured when their bus plunged into a roadside ravine Monday, police said.

The accident happened in Nan's Song Kwae district at about 7:30 am. The 32 teachers were traveling from Ban Dai School in Chiang Rai's Mae Sai district on an education trip Thung Chang district.

They left the Ban Dai school at 3 am. The ravine is about 100-metre deep.

Police suspected that the bus driver lost control because he was not familiar with mountainous road, causing it to plunge down the ravine.

Pongphan Chaiyawat, the director of Chiang Rai's Education Zone 3, said the tragic accident saddened teachers in Mae Sai and the entire Chiang Rai.

He said Ban Dai School Director Sak Luaraj was among the injured. He said the education zone and legal staffs would provide all necessary assistance to the injured teaches and families of the killed teachers.

The injured teachers were rushed to the Song Kwae and Nan hospitals. Pongphan said his deputy would become acting director of the school and teachers from nearby school would be mobilized to take charge of classes to ensure that the students could sit for the final exams

-- The Nation 2011-02-21

What sad news. May they rest in peace and a speedy recovery for the injured.

I've been in a Thai hospital where they'd implanted a plate, but not as it should be. Not only why accidents like this one happen, is a problem, also how people "recover", being treated in most hospitals,where doctors are mostly not doing a good job.

It happened at my former school a long time ago and people always remember this tragedy.

One such accident alone is enough physical and mental trauma for any human being to bear.

On the subject of treatment in hospitals, I can understand your situation Sirchai.

I have a very close friend who is a nurse in the ER in a major hospital in Nakhon Pathom. She tells me that, no matter how bad the condition is of a patient brought to the ER, if there is another patient with a good, private medical insurance, that patient will be treated first and receive better care than the one having only the "free" government coverage.

All this is in keeping with the mentality that a vehicle trumps a pedestrian, the color of one's skin and shape of the eyes and nose calls for a dual price system and the established idea that pay for promotions, not merit, is what rules this land in many areas, from public safety to health care.

Thais are OK. If they could only be proactive and not reactive in the face of ongoing problems that they choose to ignore. Saving face is more important than personal responsibility.

Back to the subject I must add that, as flawed as law enforcement is in this country, one must wait for a forensic report of the accident (no matter how perfunctory it is) before leveling accusations based on groundless suppositions and lack of solid evidence.

RIP the deceased and speedy and total recovery to the injured.

[bkkjames]

It does not matter whether it was a minibus or a bus......... It was anyway a public transportation vehicle....

RIP to all victims.

I was driving last week end heading North. I was doing 120 - 130 km / h, with a very good and perfectly maintained car. I know that my speed was already over the limit. You can not imagine how many loaded minibus passed me. And how many buses tried to pass, some staying on my side, forcing me to let them go...!!!!!!!! Scary.

These lunatic drivers are definitely not trained for this kind of job, and they do not care about other people lives...

I feel really bad for all those people who have no other choice than using those minibus and buses...

Sorry was it a minibus in this sad story?

Regarding the original reporting and quoting, let's wait and see what the injured have to say (when they can) before assuming the bus driver didnt know the roads and just drove off it - although that might be convenient for some to believe.

pilots, bts, mrt, boats to KPG? sometimes accidents happen but not in the West right?

[GentlemanJim]

So yet again time for baseless criticism of the driver and an appalling reason given by the police.

THis was a long week-end there are bound to be a lot of minibuses on the road

-Were they in a hurry? Had they encouraged the driver to make up time?Was the vehicle road worthy?Was the surface of the road up yo standard?.. almost certainly not!

Was there an effective barrier? - to this last one , one doesn't even have to look at the scene to say NO!!

I don't think I've seen a single piece of Armco or proper barrier set up anywhere in Thailand - basically if a vehicle leaves the road the only things to stop it are either concrete or trees - neither of which are of the remotes use to an out of control vehicle

But you are making baseless criticism and assumptions about, being in a hurry, passenger peer pressure, mechanical worthiness, but in particular you say was the surface of road up to standard ..almost certainly not! Isn't that a great assumption on your part? If you argue that most of the roads in Thailand are poor quality then fine, but the argument that most of the drivers in thailand are poor quality is also equally valid. As for this one

Was there an effective barrier? - to this last one , one doesn't even have to look at the scene to say NO!!

You are simply making an assumption based on your knowledge of other areas of Thailand. You are willing to make the assumption without even seeing the 'scene'. Therefore your statements are equally as valid or invalid as anybody else's son here so far. Get off your soap box.

[LTGTR]

More innocent victims.That's 2 accidents in as many days.May they rest in peace.

[midas]

I feel so sorry for those teachers , once again those bus drivers really need to receive proper training for road safety and how to use a bus. You cannot wake up in the morning and pretend to be a bus driver like this .

RIP for those who died .

Every Thai needs to receive proper training. They simply dont get this

to get a licence and as the number of cars and motorbikes keep growing

driving skills need to be upgraded also.

[koto]

Way too many bus and mini-van accidents in Thailand. Good training and tougher licensing requirements should be required for these drivers. A terrible accident. RIP.

Also locked on speed governors should be required on all vans and buses for hire.

There has been many vans almost running me off the road with their racing to get there

and to get back.

I shed tears for the unneeded loss of life, caused by foolish drivers racing, like crazy kids.

[richieudon]

Police suspected that the bus driver lost control because he was not familiar with mountainous road.

Read again... This stupid attitude is exactly the problem !

If ever you're not familiar with any route or road you always take extra care, especially in a <deleted> bus ESPECIALLY when it's full of people.

It's common sense but then again we don't really see much of that do we?

What a tragic waste of lives caused by someone who's probably got 20 amulets blocking his view of the road.

There's too much of this attitude but even a tragedy like this won't change a thing.

R.I.P.

[OldeBellPedr]

This is what you get when a country's bus drivers come from the most reckless segment of drivers, unlike in developed countries where they usually come from the most careful segment of drivers, and are carefully chosen for the job by their employers.

Indeed a terrible waste of life, and teachers into the bargain.

However I must comment on the above and other posts.

I dont know how many of these posters actually travel on buses in Thailand but I do, as I have no use for a car therefore dont drive.

I have used buses over most of the country except the far north for the last 6 years and have never been in a bus that has even had a scratch.

I now travel regularly into and out of BKK, about a 3 hr drive and can tell you that the drivers are professional and careful.

They have regular rest stops between runs and on longer trips the buses carry more than one driver.

Very few are young men which I suspect equates with experienced.

I see many accidents on the roads, like 5 when travelling home from BKK last Thursday but very rarely one involving a bus.

I have no problems with travelling on a bus, cant say the same for mini vans though, tried them years ago and not for me.

RIP to all victims.

I was driving last week end heading North. I was doing 120 - 130 km / h, with a very good and perfectly maintained car. I know that my speed was already over the limit. You can not imagine how many loaded minibus passed me. And how many buses tried to pass, some staying on my side, forcing me to let them go...!!!!!!!! Scary.

These lunatic drivers are definitely not trained for this kind of job, and they do not care about other people lives...

I feel really bad for all those people who have no other choice than using those minibus and buses...

Sorry was it a minibus in this sad story?

Regarding the original reporting and quoting, let's wait and see what the injured have to say (when they can) before assuming the bus driver didnt know the roads and just drove off it - although that might be convenient for some to believe.

R.I.P. to all those kiled and commiserations to the injuted. A tragedy -moreso at this time of year with students coming up to final exams. The effects will be felt throughout Mae Sai which is a town I am very fond of.

As to the type of vehicle. As there were 32 people on board one assumes it was a proper bus. Then i agree with timestamp. Most bus drivers are mature and generally good, experienced drivers Some minibus drivers aren't

[newermonkey]

Does anyone know in which Songkwae the accident took place? (there are 2 songkwae dsitricts in Nan, one about 20km west of the city, the other around 60-70km to the north...)

Alos, does anyone know what the weather was like at the time of the accident (in both areas there is usually early morning fog. Sometimes visibility can be down to 10-20meters.)

Since the group was heading to/from Tung Chang to/from Chiang Rai, I'm guessing that they were travelling on Highway 1148, and going through the Songkwae in the north.

Some people seem quick to blame the driver/reckless driving... but anyone who's been to either Songkwae will know that both roads are very steep, winding mountain roads. They are also quite narrow and very, very dangerous especially if the weather's bad, or it's foggy.

I'm not saying the driver wasn't to blame... but maybe people should wait until there's more information before blaming the accident soley upon him.

RIP to the dead, and I hope the injured recover quickly...

"They are also quite narrow and very, very dangerous especially if the weather's bad, or it's foggy."

There are NO dangerous roads in the world- not one.

Its all down to : lack of driver skill, lack of common sense, lack of experience, lack of professional training, lack of pride in driving well, lack of fast good reactions, lack of correct response to a threatening situation.

I would say 99% of all Thai drivers fall into the category of one or all the above.

Note: I am an ex-rally champion and when I went off into the scenery on a forest track on several occasions, I nor anyone else would blame the road or conditions, one would say I was trying too hard, I was not concentrating enough, or just plain old... I am not good enough.

Why don't people recognize the fact its always the drivers fault no matter what the situation.

I stand steadfast on my opinion and challenge anyone to point out any occasion where it was not the drives fault.

[KJH]

Does anyone know in which Songkwae the accident took place? (there are 2 songkwae dsitricts in Nan, one about 20km west of the city, the other around 60-70km to the north...)

Alos, does anyone know what the weather was like at the time of the accident (in both areas there is usually early morning fog. Sometimes visibility can be down to 10-20meters.)

Since the group was heading to/from Tung Chang to/from Chiang Rai, I'm guessing that they were travelling on Highway 1148, and going through the Songkwae in the north.

Some people seem quick to blame the driver/reckless driving... but anyone who's been to either Songkwae will know that both roads are very steep, winding mountain roads. They are also quite narrow and very, very dangerous especially if the weather's bad, or it's foggy.

I'm not saying the driver wasn't to blame... but maybe people should wait until there's more information before blaming the accident soley upon him.

RIP to the dead, and I hope the injured recover quickly...

Don't be so wet!

If the roads and visibility are that bad then the driver should slow right down so he can cope with conditions.

Only one vehicle involved, of course it was the driver to blame.

Or the guy who decided to save money on a mechanic or replacement parts.

I'm not saying it wasn't the drivers fault... I'm just saying that maybe people should wait for more information before they blame him for causing the accident... Imagine how his/her family must be feeling knowing that this has happened and that so many people are injured / have died...

In December, just before Christmas I was in Mae Salong. The night that I arrived, there was a news crew in the village as there had been a really bad accident on one of the roads there (this one a lot narrower and more dangerous that the ones in Songkwae...) A minivan went off the road, and into the forest below, and people in Mae Salong were saying that between 1-8 people had died (I can't remember how many people actually died but I think it was 4...) People went down the old Akha road to search for the wreckage/help the survivors.

Almost everyone in Mae Salong that I heard talk about it that night complained about the driver, saying the accident must have been his fault., that locals don't come off the road like that... that he shouldn't have gone that way down the mountain (I kind of agreed with the last comment, as it is probably the most dangerous of the 3 roads that I know of that go down from Mae Salong...)

I'm sure the story must have made the news but I was travelling then, so I didn't see the papers/TV that much, and I don't know whether the Thai newspapers blamed the driver or the minivan.

A day later I rode down the mountain and went past the crash site. A group of people were stood on the road, and they pointed out the wreckage to me. When I asked what had happened there, they said that, the night before, a convoy of minibuses had been travelling downhill and the 1st van's breaks had failed. From what they said it sounded like there was little the driver could have gone (if he hadn't had gone off the road on that bend, chances were he would have come off, or overturned on one of the next ones....)

At that time, people were still blaming the driver for causing the crash... and I kind of wondered whether most people would ever know what really happened, and that it probably (unless you blame him for the fact that the brakes failed...) wasn't his fault.

[Robby nz]

This is what you get when a country's bus drivers come from the most reckless segment of drivers, unlike in developed countries where they usually come from the most careful segment of drivers, and are carefully chosen for the job by their employers.

Indeed a terrible waste of life, and teachers into the bargain.

However I must comment on the above and other posts.

I dont know how many of these posters actually travel on buses in Thailand but I do, as I have no use for a car therefore dont drive.

I have used buses over most of the country except the far north for the last 6 years and have never been in a bus that has even had a scratch.

I now travel regularly into and out of BKK, about a 3 hr drive and can tell you that the drivers are professional and careful.

They have regular rest stops between runs and on longer trips the buses carry more than one driver.

Very few are young men which I suspect equates with experienced.

I see many accidents on the roads, like 5 when travelling home from BKK last Thursday but very rarely one involving a bus.

I have no problems with travelling on a bus, cant say the same for mini vans though, tried them years ago and not for me.

You were extremly lucky so far,

your bus arrived only a few minutes after the accidents(5),

you were only minutes away from your creator !

No problemo ?

I have no reason to believe or even suspect that if the bus I was in had been in the close vicinity it would have been involved in any way.

Incidentaly on that day the 5 accidents were all, private cars and utes except for one mini van that had been hit from behind,and all nose to tail.

However, you Lukjoker, and many other posters, must have been in many bus accidents to know how dangerous they are.

So I accept your expert opinion.

[bkkjames]

Does anyone know in which Songkwae the accident took place? (there are 2 songkwae dsitricts in Nan, one about 20km west of the city, the other around 60-70km to the north...)

Alos, does anyone know what the weather was like at the time of the accident (in both areas there is usually early morning fog. Sometimes visibility can be down to 10-20meters.)

Since the group was heading to/from Tung Chang to/from Chiang Rai, I'm guessing that they were travelling on Highway 1148, and going through the Songkwae in the north.

Some people seem quick to blame the driver/reckless driving... but anyone who's been to either Songkwae will know that both roads are very steep, winding mountain roads. They are also quite narrow and very, very dangerous especially if the weather's bad, or it's foggy.

I'm not saying the driver wasn't to blame... but maybe people should wait until there's more information before blaming the accident soley upon him.

RIP to the dead, and I hope the injured recover quickly...

"They are also quite narrow and very, very dangerous especially if the weather's bad, or it's foggy."

There are NO dangerous roads in the world- not one.

Its all down to : lack of driver skill, lack of common sense, lack of experience, lack of professional training, lack of pride in driving well, lack of fast good reactions, lack of correct response to a threatening situation.

I would say 99% of all Thai drivers fall into the category of one or all the above.

Note: I am an ex-rally champion and when I went off into the scenery on a forest track on several occasions, I nor anyone else would blame the road or conditions, one would say I was trying too hard, I was not concentrating enough, or just plain old... I am not good enough.

Why don't people recognize the fact its always the drivers fault no matter what the situation.

I stand steadfast on my opinion and challenge anyone to point out any occasion where it was not the drives fault.

When he didn't see the bull moose run out of the bushes and into his path. Next.

BTW (RIP to all those killed today)

[craigj7]

Police suspected that the bus driver lost control because he was not familiar with mountainous road.

Read again... This stupid attitude is exactly the problem !

lets get more farang onto busses

[Who, me ?]

Whatever.......... I am not in the mood.. Sure many posters understood my point.

It does not matter whether it was a minibus or a bus......... It was anyway a public transportation vehicle....

RIP to all victims.

I was driving last week end heading North. I was doing 120 - 130 km / h, with a very good and perfectly maintained car. I know that my speed was already over the limit. You can not imagine how many loaded minibus passed me. And how many buses tried to pass, some staying on my side, forcing me to let them go...!!!!!!!! Scary.

These lunatic drivers are definitely not trained for this kind of job, and they do not care about other people lives...

I feel really bad for all those people who have no other choice than using those minibus and buses...

Sorry was it a minibus in this sad story?

Regarding the original reporting and quoting, let's wait and see what the injured have to say (when they can) before assuming the bus driver didnt know the roads and just drove off it - although that might be convenient for some to believe.

pilots, bts, mrt, boats to KPG? sometimes accidents happen but not in the West right?

[Nisa]

There are NO dangerous roads in the world- not one.

I take it you have never heard of a mountain road giving way during a mud slide or sink holes spontaneously swallow cars or boulders falling from a mountainous road into a car or .....

But I understand your point in terms of the vast majority of accidents being do to unsafe driving.

[chivo]

the driver was not familiar with the mountainous roads???? i am not familiar with most of the roads i drive on throughout the country- therefore i drive a reasonable speed, slow down for curves, and i dont overtake on blind sections of the road. RIP, so sad a tale. so familiar a tale.

[ding]

xbusman's sig line is hilarious, until I read another one of these stories.

So tragic, a terrible loss. This coupled with the minivan crash, not good at all.

RIP.

[agord]

It does not matter whether it was a minibus or a bus......... It was anyway a public transportation vehicle....

RIP to all victims.

I was driving last week end heading North. I was doing 120 - 130 km / h, with a very good and perfectly maintained car. I know that my speed was already over the limit. You can not imagine how many loaded minibus passed me. And how many buses tried to pass, some staying on my side, forcing me to let them go...!!!!!!!! Scary.

These lunatic drivers are definitely not trained for this kind of job, and they do not care about other people lives...

I feel really bad for all those people who have no other choice than using those minibus and buses...

Sorry was it a minibus in this sad story?

Regarding the original reporting and quoting, let's wait and see what the injured have to say (when they can) before assuming the bus driver didnt know the roads and just drove off it - although that might be convenient for some to believe.

pilots, bts, mrt, boats to KPG? sometimes accidents happen but not in the West right?

Ignorant post. Of course accidents happen in the west only we do EVERYTHING in our power to ensure saftey first - commerical drivers licenses, active traffic policing of our highways, regular commercial vehicle inspections (90 days), random drug testing of anyone holding a CDL, log books with driving hours that are checked, vehicle inspections before going out with defective vehicles being put out of service...could go on and on listing the preventitive measures we take to keep passengers safe. They do ANY of that here? doubt it and add to that the lack of common road sense (puling out into traffic without looking or driving on the wrong side of the road out of laziness) and you get what we have here every day.

In "the west" we would be outraged by this kind of carnage and stats and would do something about it right quick! here? mai phen rai

[SantiSuk]

I feel so sorry for those teachers , once again those bus drivers really need to receive proper training for road safety and how to use a bus. You cannot wake up in the morning and pretend to be a bus driver like this .

RIP for those who died .

There's 19 deaths in 2 seperate minivan accidents within 24 hours. How many did the hi so brat kill on the toll way,,,, 7-9?...for a total of 3 seperate minivan accidents and what 26+ deaths?

Come on Bureau of Land Transportation,

Come on traffic police,

Come on politicians, clean it up;

Or is this thai way of population control?

The ruling classes don't ride public transport. The ruling classes don't give a shit. Nuff said?

[hasher69]

This is what you get when a country's bus drivers come from the most reckless segment of drivers, unlike in developed countries where they usually come from the most careful segment of drivers, and are carefully chosen for the job by their employers.

Indeed a terrible waste of life, and teachers into the bargain.

However I must comment on the above and other posts.

I dont know how many of these posters actually travel on buses in Thailand but I do, as I have no use for a car therefore dont drive.

I have used buses over most of the country except the far north for the last 6 years and have never been in a bus that has even had a scratch.

I now travel regularly into and out of BKK, about a 3 hr drive and can tell you that the drivers are professional and careful.

They have regular rest stops between runs and on longer trips the buses carry more than one driver.

Very few are young men which I suspect equates with experienced.

I see many accidents on the roads, like 5 when travelling home from BKK last Thursday but very rarely one involving a bus.

I have no problems with travelling on a bus, cant say the same for mini vans though, tried them years ago and not for me.

Most accidents are in Minibuses not Coaches which maybe you are referring to.

There are many many accidents involving minibuses . and I have had a few close misses!!

[peter48]

Presumably this was not a mini - bus such as the type that now seem to dominate travel in Thailand. I went on several in the summer; my overall impression was they are cheaper than say normal buses, are faster and driving is probably typical of Thias with the majority being quite young. On balance they do go too fast given that they are packed out with people and safety belts are rarely bothered with. I see Farang/Thais who in Europe always belt up sit with kiddies belting along roads at high speed. I tried to untangle a safety belt for my lad but was met with odd Thai smiles even from those who back in the UK always use belts. Of course they save lives and massive traumatic injuries but Thais lack common sense and that explains their massive road death carnage.

Edited February 21, 2011 by peter48

[Cuban]

IME very few drivers on Thai highways have the remotest idea about reading the road or the possible dangers around them. From what is written above I can not tell the cause - but having seen a few buses in incidents where deaths occurred, driver error does appear to be a common thread: late breaking and excessive speed a match made in heaven that takes those involved closer to that particular destination.

I would speculate that the driver was basing his braking on gauge speed without any concept of the energy liberated from the bus travelling downhill (?) and attempted in take a curve as well. Never put a vehicle anywhere unless you have been there first with your eyes and your brain first.

[agord]

Police suspected that the bus driver lost control because he was not familiar with mountainous road.

Read again... This stupid attitude is exactly the problem !

lets get more farang onto busses

I'm out. I have not been on any kind of bus in over 6 years since mine ran head on into a mountain because the driver fell asleep. Worth mentioning he was the younger of the two drivers they had on the overnight bus and the senior, in very Thai fashion, slept in the back and let the junior drive the whole way (over 10 hours by the time we crashed) they should have switched every 4 at least. Luckily nobody was killed but serious injuries and had the driver not hit the side of the mountain the other side was at least a 100 m drop to the sea. sat on the side of the raod for over 2 hours, 5:00 am with people having broken legs, head injuries etc. before anyone came to pick the injured up. I took some stitches to my eyebrow and my g/f bruised her knee, the old man driver got thrown down the aisle of the bus.

[bkkjames]

Ignorant post. Of course accidents happen in the west only we do EVERYTHING in our power to ensure saftey first - commerical drivers licenses, active traffic policing of our highways, regular commercial vehicle inspections (90 days), random drug testing of anyone holding a CDL, log books with driving hours that are checked, vehicle inspections before going out with defective vehicles being put out of service...could go on and on listing the preventitive measures we take to keep passengers safe. They do ANY of that here? doubt it and add to that the lack of common road sense (puling out into traffic without looking or driving on the wrong side of the road out of laziness) and you get what we have here every day.

In "the west" we would be outraged by this kind of carnage and stats and would do something about it right quick! here? mai phen rai

No more ignorant than all of you guys jumping on the statement that the driver didn't know the roads.

Oh and speaking of stats - how many killed in car accidents in the west (USA) last year? Check the USA rates over the last decade - and then come back with ignorant thoughts. All the regulation in the world won't change a thing unfortunately except create a few new industries for those concerned.

In TH, the number was around 11,000 of which motorcycles made up 6,000. Too many - yes but throwing more government controls / laws when the existing one's dont get enforced is pointless.

Edited February 21, 2011 by bkkjames

[webfact]

Update Nan accident:

List of teachers who were killed

Follow this link:

[Businessman]

I see many questions about the road conditions, weather conditions, visibility etc. These may be factors contributing to an accidents, but they do not excuse the driver.

The driver must be accountable for the safe passage of all passengers. That means, that he makes the appropriate adjustments in his driving for the road and weather conditions. There is no excuse to blame the road or the weather... SLOW DOWN to a safe speed. Stop, if one cannot proceed without killing people. It sounds as if posters believe the driver is possibly blameless because the road is wet, or the visibility limited or there is lack of barriers. When, in fact, the driver should we aware of all these factors and drive accordingly.

Short of a grave mechanical failure, I can think of few things that are not within the control of the driver to prevent this type of accident.

[trainman34014]

And as long as the people are not educated well enough to understand things any differently standards in every field of life here will remain the same. No need for Governments and all other so called 'responsible' people to change anything !

[Gers1873]

I don't think I've seen a single piece of Armco or proper barrier set up anywhere in Thailand - basically if a vehicle leaves the road the only things to stop it are either concrete or trees - neither of which are of the remotes use to an out of control vehicle

Surely its the responsibility of the driver to ensure the vehicle stays on the road. I just had one of these 'grey vans' run a red light this morning and almost take out my vehicle

[anterian]

With a major accident like this in Europe it is a cause for a major inquiry, possibly lasting months and with questions asked in parliament. Here it is just a few more numbers to add to the monthly statistics.

If you want a real thrill try a kareoke bus

Mind you these buses to make frequent bladder stops