Where To Live

[RueFang]

It's been a while since I've posted here! Good news is that I am almost 4 months pregnant with our first bub We've been living back in Australia for the last 2.5 years with no real plan about staying here or back in Thailand. Only plan is to get hubby oz citizenship which he can now qualify for (next year) whether we live in Thailand or oz.

Being preggers is making me miss Thailand more I think. I don't have much family here and only my mum in the same city (all other fam are over 1000km away) whereas in Thailand my husband's family is huge, dozens of cousins, aunties, uncles, grandparents. I know that I could not live in the village again, even though we have built our own little (bungalow style) house, I feel too suffocated and no freedom, especially with a new baby. It used to bother me that I never got time to myself (among other things) and I think it would be 100 times worse having a baby there with people just being around constantly (there's been no babies in the family for over 5 years!).

I'm thinking about what it would be like if we moved to Krabi (200 kms from the fam). Seems a good balance between access to 'western' conveniences and total ruraldom, where we could still visit fam weekly/fortnightly but retain our privacy and freedom. I won't teach English again so hubby would have to find work, although I have no idea what he would do. I guess it worries me that he would be working 6 long days a week as a lot of Thais seem to do if they don't work for themselves. Just confused about what to do. I know the fam will have issues about us not moving back to the village, but I figure at least moving back to the same country within easy visiting reach is a lot better then living in another country. Hubby is open to living in Krabi for a few years.

Bub is due end of September and we're thinking of going back for 2 weeks in January, so guess I'll see how that goes. Would be nice to hear your opinions.

[sbk]

Congrats again!

Well the difference in working for yourself is you work 7 long days a week instead!

As for family, well I recall how suffocated you were, a baby would make it a million times worse as from my experience of seeing my friends and their babies, you couldn't possibly know what you are doing and they would try to tell you how to do everything their way. Plus there's the added wow factor and everyone and their brother would want to come and hold your baby, passing it around like a sack of potatoes (yes indeed, I have seen this, a group of about 8 or so, little old ladies sitting in a giant circle, handing the baby round so each could take a turn)

Can't give you much advice on Krabi itself as I have never lived there and only passed through but will tell you the "wow" factor would follow you everywhere you lived and everyone would want to touch and hold and look at your baby.

[Sunsylvia]

There are a lot of things to consider and it depends which things are important to you.

If you want to avoid the overly medicalized birth and high c-section rates in Thailand, if you prefer natural birth, midwifes, homebirth then you have a lot more options in Australia for the birth, there are no midwifes working independently outside of hospitals in Thailand .

You should be in a place where you feel safe and comfortable for the last part of your pregnancy, birth and the first months after, you probably won't want to relocate during that time.

If you move to Krabi it would not be practical to give birth in Bangkok or Phuket, if you need a Dr. who will take it seriously in case you want a natural birth. If you wanted a homebirth in Krabi you would need to have a midwife fly from Australia (I know 2 foreign women in Thailand who did this).

It's also not easy to have your wishes respected in a Thai hospital in regards to having father attend birth, not separating baby from you after birth, not corrupting breastfeeding by giving newborn bottle, vaccinations, it all can turn stressful.

It is good to have some help after the birth but I would agree that you might not feel comfortable for everyone in a village to touch your baby until he/she is a bit older, say 3 months. You also want to be in a position to make your own decisions regarding vaccinating or not, breastfeeding, and not to having to argue with anyone about this including family and doctors.

What are your thoughts on natural birth, breastfeeding, vaccinating?

Do you feel comfortable where you are now in Australia? Do you have a midwife already?

How is the relationship to you mother in Australia, would you like her support during / after the birth or rather not?

Could you afford a nice housekeeper to help you in Thailand after the birth?

Those are the things to ask yourself for the coming months. Once the baby is 3 months or so you can change locations / countries more easily to suit your needs.

[sbk]

ruefang posted:

Bub is due end of September and we're thinking of going back for 2 weeks in January, so guess I'll see how that goes. Would be nice to hear your opinions.

[RueFang]

Thanks again SBK I know the drill with the 7 day work week with own business as we had that as well, but at least we were together doing it, whereas if he is working outside somewhere 6 or 7 days a week, would have to consider the loneliness side of things with a new bub. The touching, grabbing, holding thing has worried me a bit because I know what it is like when it's just me, the white woman, so know how full on it will be with a lil halfy. That's one reason am waiting at least 3 months before visiting so hopefully I feel a bit more confident with being a new mum (probably very naive statement!)

Thanks for your advice Sunsylvia - am very comfortable where we are in Australia and have absolutely no plans to ever give birth in Thailand! Have had a couple of bad experiences with Thai hospitals so in no rush to go back inside one. Have all my birth details planned at this end and no plans to visit Thailand until January when bub will be 3 months old. If I still don't feel confident by then I'll definitely push it back, but it will only be for a 2 week holiday at that stage. The moving back to Thailand wouldn't be before bub is at least 6 months old but am just thinking about what to do, if it's the best choice for us as a family and for the baby and for myself. I really struggled in my last 6 mths when I lived in the village due to the isolation and lack of freedom which is why I would only consider living outside if we returned.

If we were to stay in Australia I would have to go back to work within 4 months and hubby works full time and I think, since I have options, if I could choose an ideal, would be not to work for the first few years, not to mention how much hub misses Thailand and not overly joyous to live here but does so for me.

**edit typo**

Edited April 4, 2011 by RueFang

[meme]

Congrats again Rue!

I have to say, the closer hub and I get to having a baby the more scared I become about ever being able to leave Canada. However saying that, our situation would be different because I have lots of family here and all of my friends have started having families so there will be a ton of support, best friends on maternity leave at the same time as me (I could probably take a year maternity leave) etc. Saying that though, I know it will not be like living in Thailand where we would have a live in nanny (hub's unmarried sister). As you know, I also know what it is like to be isolated and I do worry that when we move back I would go mad being isolated with a baby. My gf's all tell me how isolating maternity leave can be just because they are home all day with the baby, so I assume for us that would be more intense if we were back in our homes in Thailand. My hub would rather live in Canada then anywhere else in Thailand I think, so we will for sure move back to his home town, but I don't think we will do it until our (future) babe is ready for Anuban school...then I see us moving back to Canada so they can have a proper education....but who knows right. Good luck making your decision, I am a firm believer that the answers will come to you when it is time.

I am so excited for you and your hubby! Mr. Meme also sends his congrats!

[Boo]

I think at this stage you have all the ideas but none of the knowledge. you know me well enough to know that is said with the nicest intention. trust me on this, once your baby comes you will want to be where you know you can get top notch medical care, have familiar things around you & where you will feel most comfortable The idea of living in Thailand with baby so young is a nice one esp when thinking about not having to work but having no money when childless is one thing, doing it with a kid is a different fish altogether. One of the main reasons why we haven't made the big move is money or lack of it. Whilst in Uk we know we can provide & earn to prevent our son being deprived but in Thailand with limited employment ops for me & a limited business range for hubby we just can't risk the move yet.

I would suggest coming when bubs is 3 month as planned then just see how you get on. The first visit with sonny (as you know) when he was 3 months was great but hard work, the weather, coping with a small baby & the bugs, health issues, it made me appreciate how easy things were in UK. Coming back when he was older (2years+) was much easier. His vaccinations were all done, I was much more aware of any potential medical issues & he was more able to express discomfort/dislike which made life easier.

When baby comes you will be overwhelmed with so many new things. Just take things as they come & make you choices slowly. Thailand isn't going anywhere & you will make the move when you are ready & prepared.

[Goinghomesoon]

Well you know I am biased.... Mr & Mrs GHS want you to stay right where you are, so that we know people when we get back to Oz in a few months And Mr GHS is already asking if you'll let us babysit, which hopefully might settle some of his cluckiness.

[RueFang]

Thanks Meme Yeah, I think it would make a huge difference if I had a lot of friends and fam here, guess that's why I'm drawn back to Thailand a bit. I can have a year maternity leave here but is without pay so don't think we could afford to live where we currently are on one wage. I would also want kiddie to be educated in Australia, more so after 10 yrs old but not super specific!

Hey Boo, was hoping you would chime in with your wealth of experience. Am fully aware of the naivety of my comments being a first time mum hence the need to hear input from those that know what I'm talking about. How long was your first visit when S was 3 mths old? Did you feel confident with bub and telling people to back off (can't see you biting your tongue too much in this sitch ). I imagine I'll be fiercely protective and probably tell everyone to fk off! I know hub will stay in oz as long as 'needed' but I just get the guilts sometimes about how much he misses home and family.

GHS, you and A are so funny Of course you're on the top of my list for babysitters! In fact you're leaps and bounds in front of my own mum because I know how fabulous all 3 of you would be with bubba!! In any event would 100% be here for at least your first year back. Can't wait

[redfish44]

Hi RueFang,

Congratulations and great to hear your updates. Well done on making it to 4 months.

I am 24 weeks pregnant today. I live in southern Krabi (Koh Lanta), I am Australian with a Thai husband and I am having my baby in Bangkok.

There is no way I would have my baby in Aus, not after I compare what I have here and what my firends had there (regardless of budget). Doesn't come close to anything I have ever seen in Aus in terms of quality of facilities available and then the price is also a lot cheaper. We can have a way better quality of life as well as other stuff by far if we stay here.

I had a tricky run finding the right doctors, but am totally fine with them all now, and my current baby doctor is known for being pro-natural pro-breastfeeding and pro-waterbirth, as is the hospital - where the nurses that work in delivery are actually midwives but jsut called nurses for some reason (so I have to totally disagree with the earlier post above).

I also have been seeing a great GP in Bangkok who has given me info about a heap of other stuff and contacts, such as midwives and doulas and all that stuff, as there are a bunch of them here from various countries.

Hubby and I even managed to find a good GP doctor on our island in Krabi after all these years, with her own clinic - she rocks and was a lifesaver.

If we can't get to Bangkok if something goes wrong, the hospital in Trang or Phuket is the go, as the Krabi one is not that great. At least the staff aren't rude and arogant like a lot of ones in Aus on similar budgets. Apparently they are building a new one (see the Krabi forum), but it might take a while.

The only thing I am struggling with now (appart from the pregnancy related pregnancy stuff - not having such a fun time there, but it won't last forever) is finding bras - but that is nothing new here... am pondering making a plaster cast and then a balistics gel mould of my boobs and posting them to Aus to get some fitted (too much Mythbusters while pregnant and sleep deprived, or actually a good idea?).

I know that GHS and A would love you to stay in Canberra, but I would love for you to come to Krabi, and I am sure my hubby would too (then they can trade notes about crazy Aussie wives).

There are also some great networks of parents, such as BAMBI and parentvine. Amyj might also pop up here to tell you how good it is to be in Thailand, she has a lot of info too.

If you are in Aus get yourself a copy of Up The Duff by Kaz Cooke. Get the latest edition as has all the latest website links, phone numbers etc. If you can read as much of it as you can early on, cause it doesn't correspond exactly with the week thing, only the diary bit does. It covers pretty much everything going wrong except for ante-natal depression, which I think you can contact PANDA about in Aus, and the numbers are in there for that. There isn't a lot in there about abdominal pains either, but everything else I have had so far is.

I recomend that as the best starting point and then if you are brave you can go for the UK and US books. It is also a nice good laugh.

Feel free to PM me about any deatils or anything at all. I am found out a lot of stuff the hard way in recent months, so feel free to learn from my mistakes, and feel free to ask anything about life in Krabi.

Have fun going shopping for baby stuff that you can understand the labels on and not pay European prices for if you don't>

Enjoy the fact that Aus womens clothes are made for fat people at present and work fine as maternity wear (I picked up a few things in Jan that were size 10, 12, S and M and they are all perfect maternity stuff - some still way too big). Revel in the fact that you can get a bra to fit, with or without wire.

I will dream of living vicariously through your eyes as you window shop in BigW and Target (BigW baby stuff is cheapest and same quality as everywhere else - this was the case a few years back when all my mates were spawning - wish we had it here.)

And please have something yummy to eat for me. I shall have a fresh coconut and a mango for you : )

[RueFang]

Thanks Redfish and congratulations right back at you Funny, when we were over there in November we went to Koh Lanta for a week for the first time in 5 years and we both really fell in love with it and said we'd live there for a while whenever we returned to Thailand! Wish I had known you were there, could have met up.

I also think of quality of life between here and there - there are so many positive and negatives on both sides but I always thought when it came down to it, my quality of life was actually better in Thailand.. when thinking about food, family, cost of living being so ridiculously cheap. I constantly resent how expensive everything is here ! Having good medical on hand is uber important though so good to hear of your options. Do you have other kids, or is this your first? What do you and hubby do for income?

My last couple of months has been absolutely hideous with morning sickness but I've been okay for a whole 2 weeks now, so things are looking up. I hope you are through the worst of it being 24 wks!

Thanks for your advice and info... trust me, I am very grateful for all the maternity shopping I've been able to do and eat anything that I like. I remember well how much I craved certain foods and underwear when I was over there!

[Amyji]

Hi Rue - it is SOOO good to hear from you again and I am just thrilled to hear the news that you're going to be a mommy!

The others here had some fantastic advice for you already, but I think the most valuable bit of advice is to wait and see. Your world is going to change in ways you cannot even fathom right now and to come back to Thailand when baby's only 3 months old is quite ambitious.

My husband and I moved back to the United States when our son was 3 months old - and we had the support of my family here to help us get on our feet. Having familiar things to me around me was important when my baby was so young.

Now he's going on 6 years old and we're still here, but we're both working hard to make it back to Thailand for a few years so that our son can have some Thai immersion during his formidable years. The Great Recession just held us back longer than anticipated, but we hope to return within the year. During that time we made one 3-week trip to Bangkok to visit hubby's family in 2008 and that was the last time we were in Thailand.

So as well intention as your plans are, be open and flexible once your baby is born. Go easy on yourself and enjoy your child's infancy and remember that the things that used to drive you crazy about Thailand are amplified once you have a small baby to care for.

Be well.

Amy

[RueFang]

Hi Amy, good to hear back from you We wouldn't be moving back to Thailand when bub is 3 months old, just visiting for 2 weeks to visit the fam and see how things go with a baby.

[bina]

my shekels worth:

if u are a first time mother, and u are naturally possessive, and a 'clean freak' and a 'worry wart' type person, these traits exacerbate after giving birth and i would thing that a small village visit would be ok, but a move would be very difficult for you. if u are a 'earth mother' type, have had a kid or three, are used to letting your kids crawl around in the dirt, play with the goats, eat the dog food, and dont mind having aunties and cousins handling your kids, then u shouldnt have a problem.

im the second type, even with my first kid: grandother here on kibbbutz used to 'kidnap' her from the baby hosue before i got out of work, whisk her off, and totally disregard all my 'modern' directions and desires, and i feel fortunate to this day that i had the help i did with her. it drove my mother nuts when she was here visiting (mom being ex nurse, american, well discipled grandma type).

... but kibbutz grandma had also been a baby house nanny on kibbutz so did know all the basics (washing hands when switching between kids, after washing baby bum in kitchen sink, etc)... on kibbutz everyone pokes and touches and picks up your baby, rocks your carriage, replaces the pacifier if baby crys and u dont attend, (i even do that), comment on the way u carry, feed, walk, etc your baby. some mothers it drives them to distraction and they avoid the main areas of the village. others just allow certain amounts and then move off with baby and politely and firmly say 'no'. dont rely on father for help. they are usually useless especially against aunties and sibls.

if u feel confident in yourself, are not the type to run to the doc on every fever or runny nose, then it could work. if u are always on the 'alert' from fever to food to feces, then wait until u feel more secure about your mothering skills. and remember, if u are breastfeeding, it is easier to travel as breast is clean, milk never sours, always ready, and u dont have to sterilize water, bottles, or worry about dysenteries...

good luck, how exciting!!!!

bina

israel

[Carry]

Not easy questions to ask yourself but wherever u end up try to have peace with it...

As for visiting Thailand when the bub is 3 months old, dont promise anything to anyone [enthusiastic family etc]

I moved back to Thailand with the bub when she was 3 months and yes moving is still something different than visiting but the general reaction from thai people and espec. familiy is predictable.

I felt pretty insecure still as a new mom when she was only 3 months old...and than all the aunties and grandma's and nieces etc that whisk your baby away and know best made me feel really uncomfortable, also I didnt know my baby that well yet the first few months are so overwhelming!

My baby is almost 7 months now and I do feel a lot more confident...she is also stronger sleeps through the night etc etc, so when visiting the family now, I know when she is crying because she is tired or other reasons and I am stronger now knowing whats really best for my child!

I do understand that the family wants to see the baby asap and you want to be there prob. but my advice take things one step at a time, concentrate on birth and see how you and the baby feel after as said before u cant imagine how your life will change...settle in as a new mom and take it from there!

Good luck!

Edited April 10, 2011 by Carry

[samran]

I had a tricky run finding the right doctors, but am totally fine with them all now, and my current baby doctor is known for being pro-natural pro-breastfeeding and pro-waterbirth, as is the hospital - where the nurses that work in delivery are actually midwives but jsut called nurses for some reason (so I have to totally disagree with the earlier post above).

Let me take a guess, Dr Sankiat at Samtivej Sukhumvit?

He looked after my wife with the birth of our two girls. You'll be in good hands if so.

[Goinghomesoon]

Rue I was thinking of you over Songkran when we were in the village and I was having a hard time just dealing with the laundry, cooking etc for our little family, even without a baby in tow! I was thinking how difficult it could potentially be for you to deal with those things with a little baby. The in-laws will be tromping through your little house wanting to be with baby 24/7 and thinking they're "helping". At least the first trip would only be for 2 weeks. Personally I'm not sure I could deal with mother-in-law's parenting style for any longer than that, and having hear about your MIL I suspect you'll be the same

[RueFang]

GHS, I totally agree. I'm actually thinking that we'll probably go to an island for a week and only go the ville for a few days. I know how hideous it will be with the 24/7 attention. If we didn't have the lil bungalow that hub is totally in love with, we might be able to bypass the village and just tell the fam we'll be at such and such between these days, visit if you will!