Militants May Join Thailand Insurgency

[smb]

Israel is killing civilians EVERY DAY and demolish homes but no one talks about it. But when the Palestinian looses every thing, his home, his land, his freedom and his family he goes and blows himself up in any Israeli he finds the world all stands up and condemn

Palestinians have chosen their weapon. Let them live with the consequences of using human bombs. Why do they use human bombs? So there is no one to flee after the crime. There is no one to capture. There is no one to interrogate and no one to implicate the leaders. The brave leaders kill their own people to protect themselves. Murdererous at every level. Even with their own.

edit: spelling

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

this is what im talking about

why do u condemn their weapon and you dont condemn the isreali weapon???

is it because its orignally made in the U.S.A????

killing is killing usind a gun a knife or even a human...

u take away everything they have got and leaving them throwing stones and the other side cary guns ,tanks and jets..

the isrealis use the guns and the others throw stones

the next day we hear the westerns condemn the phalistinians for throwing stones.loooooooooooooooooool

their are going to die eather way they might as well kill an enamy with them.

for more than 50 years they have had killing civlians and all the world have kept a blind eye. and now they are fighting back with the only thing they have( their own soul)

try to live one day under ocupation then talk

and richb2004

u cant judge a book from the first two pages

i bet u havent read the quran that why your saying this

did u read the part wher it says u are not allowed to break a tree in a war????

Despite the presence of violence in many regions of the world ranging from Ireland to Lebanon to the Pacific Basin and involving many religions from Christianity to Hinduism, the Western world associates Islam more than any other religion with violence. The Muslim conquest of Spain, the Crusades - which were not begun by Muslims -, and the Ottoman domination of eastern Europe have provided a historical memory of Islam as being related to force and power. Moreover, the upheavals of the past few decades in the Middle East and especially movements using the name of Islam and seeking to solve problems of the Muslim world created by conditions and causes beyond the control of Muslims have only reinforced the idea prevalent in the West that in some special way Islam is related to violence.

To understand the nature of Islam and the truth about the assertion often made of Islam's espousal of violence. it is important to analyze this question clearly remembering that the word islam itself means peace and that the history of Islam has certainly not been witness to any more violence than one finds in other civilizations, particularly that of the West. In what follows. however, it is the Islamic religion in its principles and ideals with which we are especially concerned and not particular events or facts relating to the domain of historical contingency belonging to the unfolding of Islam in the plane of human history

http://www.al-islam.org/al-serat/IslamAndViolence.htm (if you want to continue reading and understanding although i know that most here are ignorant)

JIHAD IN ISLAM AND ITS REAL MEANING

Islam is the religion chosen by God for humanity’s individual and collective welfare in this world and the next. It is based on belief in and worship of God, without associating with Him any partners, whether in the form of something created, a person, or a concept. True belief and worship requires a deep concern for all animate and inanimate things. The deeper their belief in and submission to God is, the deeper is their concern for all creatures. Belief in God’s Unity prevents humanity from enjoying and exer­cising absolute freedom in dealing with creatures.

Islam is derived from the Arabic root s-l-m, which means salvation, peace, and submission. In its religious context, it is the expression of God’s Grace flowing in the universe’s arteries, the Divine system to which all creatures-except humanity-have submitted willingly. The universe displays perfect order, for everything therein is Muslim, in the sense that it submits to God’s laws. Even people who reject belief in God or worship that which is not God are Muslims, as far as their bodily exis­tence is concerned. While we journey between being an embryo and a corpse, every bodily tissue and every limb follows the course prescribed for them by God’s law.

The fundamental Islamic principle of Tawhid implies that humanity necessarily must be in harmony with the surrounding world. The vast Muslim uni­verse displays a coherence and harmony of which our world is a part. Although our world is subject to laws special to itself and to the general “laws of nature,” it is also in harmony with other laws go­verning surrounding phenomena. Human beings, unlike other creatures who tread “the path of nature,” have free will. We bear the gift of freedom and the obligation to harmonize our life with nature. This harmony is also the path of our exaltation and progress, the path upon which God created human nature: Set your face to the religion, a man of pure faith-God’s original nature in which He originated humanity. There is no changing God’s creation. That is the right religion, but most of humanity know it not (30:30).

To harmonize our lives with nature, we first should realize our personal integrity. To do this, we must apply our free will to our energies (e.g., desires, thoughts, and actions) to keep them within the limits established by God. If we do not recognize such limits, we might usurp other’s property, seek il­licit sexual relations, and indulge in other sins. If we do not recognize such li­mits with respect to our intellect, we may use it to deceive others. Our powers must be held in check, our intellect used with wisdom, and our desire and anger restrained by lawful behavior and moderation. In addition, we should remember that we are social beings; if we do not restrain ourselves as God demands, wrongdoing, injustice, exploitation, disorder, and revolution will occur in society.

God does not approve wrongdoing and disorder. Rather, it is His Will that we live in peace and justice. Therefore, those who believe in God and worship Him faithfully are obliged to work for justice in this world. Islam calls this responsibility jihad.

Meaning of Jihad

Jihad has the literal meaning of exerting our best and greatest effort to achieve something. It is not the equivalent of war, for which the Arabic word is qital. Jihad has a much wider connotation and embraces every kind of striving in God’s cause. A mujahid is one who is sincerely devoted to his or her cause; who uses all physical, intellectual, and spiritual resources to serve it; who confront any power that stands in its way; and, when necessary, dies for this cause. Jihad in the way of God is our struggle to win God’s good pleasure, to establish His religion’s supremacy, and to make His Word prevail.

A related principle, that of enjoining good and forbidding evil (amr bi al-ma‘ruf wa nahy an al-mun­kar) seeks to convey the message of Islam and establish a model Islamic community. The Qur’an introduces the Islamic community as a model community required to inform humanity of Islam and of how the Prophet lived it: Thus We have made you a community justly balanced, that you might be witnesses for all humanity, and the Messenger may be a witness for you (2:143).

The greater and lesser jihad

There are two aspects of jihad. One is fighting to over­come carnal desires and evil inclinations; this is called the greater jihad; the other is encouraging others to achieve the same objective and is called the lesser jihad.

The Muslim army was returning to Madina after they had defeated the enemy in a battle, when the Messenger of God said to them; We are returning from the lesser jihad to the greater one. When the Companions asked what the “greater jihad” was, he explained that it was fighting with the carnal self.1

The aim of either jihad, the greater or the lesser, is that the believer be purified of sins and so attain true human­ity. The prophets were sent for this purpose. God says in the Quran:

Thus We have sent unto you a Messenger from among you, who recites unto you Our revelations (and makes Our signs known to you), and who purifies you and instructs you in the Book and in the Wisdom, and also instructs you in what you don’t know. (2:151)

Human beings are in some sense like raw minerals to be worked upon by the Prophets who purify and refine them by re­moving the seal from their hearts and ears, and by lifting the veils from their eyes. Enlightened by the message of the Prophets, people are enabled to understand the meaning of the laws of nature, which are signs of the existence and Unity of God, and to penetrate into the subtle reality behind things and events. Only through the guidance of the Prophets can mankind attain the high status expected of them by God.

In addition to teaching the signs, the Prophets also in­structed men in the Book and in Wisdom. As the Quran was the last Revelation to the Last Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, God means the Quran when He speaks of the Book, and the Sunna when He speaks of Wisdom. We must therefore follow the Quran and the Sunna of the Prophet Muhammad, if we desire to be rightly guided.

The Prophet also teaches us what we do not know and humanity will continue to learn from the Prophet until the Day of Judgment. We learn from him how to purify ourselves of sins. By following his way, many great saints have attained their distinctions as saints. Among them ‘Ali says that his belief in the pillars of Islam is so firm that even if the veil of the Unseen were lifted, his certainty would not increase.2 ‘Abd al-Qadir al-Jilani is said to have had insight into the mysteries of the seventh heaven. These and many others, such as Fudayl bin ‘Iyaz, Ibrahim bin Ad­ham and Bishr al-Khafi might well have been endowed with Prophethood, if God had not already set a seal on Prophethood.

The dark clouds of ignorance have been removed from human intellectual horizon through the guidance of the Prophet Muhammad, and many more advances will be made in science and technology as a re­sult of the light he brought from God.

Jihad is the legacy of the Prophets, and Prophethood is the mission of elevating men to God’s favor by purify­ing them. Jihad is the name given to this prophetic mis­sion, which has the same meaning as bearing witness to the truth. Just as judges listen to witnesses to settle a case in a court of law, so those who have performed jihad have borne witness to the existence and Unity of God by striving in His way. The Quran says: God bears wit­ness that there is no god but He and so do the angels and the people of learning, maintaining justice. There is no god save He, the All-Mighty, the Wise (3.18). Those who have performed jihad will also bear witness to the same truth in the heavenly court where the case of unbelievers will be settled.

Those who bear witness to the existence and Unity of God should travel far and wide into the remotest parts of the world and preach this truth. This was the duty of the Prophets as stated in the Qur’an, and it should be our duty as well:

...Messengers who brought good news to mankind and who admonished them, so that they might have no argument against God after their coming. God is the All-Mighty and the All-Wise. God Himself bears witness by what He has revealed to you that it has been revealed with His knowledge; and so do the angels. There is no better witness than God. (4.165-6)

There has been no people to whom God did not send a Prophet, so that every people has some notion of Prophethood. As the term used to describe the activity of Prophethood, jihad is deeply engraved on the heart of every believer so that he or she feels a profound responsibility for preaching the truth in order to guide others to the Straight Path.

The lesser jihad, which has usually been taken to mean fighting for God’s cause, does not refer only to the form of striving done on battlefields. The term is com­prehensive. It includes every action done for God’s sake. Whether speaking or keeping silent, smiling or making a sour face, joining a meeting or leaving it, every action taken to ameliorate the lot of humanity, whether by individuals or communi­ties, is included in the meaning of the lesser jihad.

While the lesser jihad depends on the mobilization of all the material facilities and is performed in the outer world, the greater jihad means a person’s fighting against his or her carnal soul. These two forms of jihad cannot be separated from each other.

The Messenger of God has taught us how to perform both forms of the jihad. He has established the principles of preaching the truth, which have application until the Day of Judgment. When we scrutinize the way he acted, we shall see that he was very systematic. This is actually another proof of his Prophethood and a wonderful ex­ample of following the way of God in behavior.

The believers kept their belief vigorous and active by means of jihad. Just as a tree keeps its leaves as long as it yields fruits so a believer can preserve vigor as long as he performs jihad. Whenever you encounter a hope­less pessimist you soon realize that he or she is one who has abandoned jihad. Such people have been deprived of the spirit, and are sunk in pessimism because they have abandoned preaching the truth. Whoever performs jihad unceasingly never loses his or her enthusiasm and always tries to increase the scope of his or her activities. Every good deed results in a new one, so that believers never become deprived of a good: As for those who strive for us We surely guide them to our path. God is with the good (29.69).

There are as many paths leading to the Straight Path as the number of breaths drawn in the creation, mankind included. Whoever strives for His cause, God guides him to one of these paths and saves him or her from going astray. Whoever is guided to His Straight Path by God lives a balanced life, exceeding the limits neither in his or her human needs and activities nor in his/her worship and other religious observances. Such balance is the sign of “true guidance.”

However great the sacrifices made in fighting with the oppressive unbelievers, they nevertheless all constitute the lesser ji­had. It is striving to discharge religious obli­gations as perfectly as possible. As for the greater jihad, it is really much more difficult to accomplish since it re­quires us to fight against all our own destructive drives and impulses such as arrogance, vindictiveness, jealousy, selfishness, self-conceit, and the carnal desires.

Although the person who abandons the lesser jihad is li­able to spiritual deterioration, he or she may recover. Every­thing in the universe praises and glorifies God with its every breath and is, accordingly, a sign of the existence and Unity of God: a person may be guided to the Straight Path through one of these signs. For this reason, it is said that there are as many paths leading to the Straight Path of God as the breaths of all His creatures. A person returning from the lesser jihad is vulnerable to worldly weaknesses. Pride, love of comfort and ease may capti­vate that person. These are some of the perils awaiting one who has returned from the lesser ji­had. It is for this reason that the Prophet warned us through his Companions: returning to Madina after a victory, he said: We are returning from the lesser jihad to the greater.

The Companions of the Prophet, upon him be peace, were fearless on the battlefields on the one hand, and as sincere and humble as dervishes in wor­shipping God on the other. Those victorious warriors used to spend most of their nights in prayer to God. Once, when night fell during battle, two of them had to take turns in standing guard. One took his rest while the other began to pray to God. Having become aware of the situation, the enemy shot a shower of arrows at him. He was hit and bled profusely but did not abandon his prayer. When he finished his devotions, he woke his friend, who asked him in amazement why he had not woken him sooner. His reply was: “I was reciting the sura al-Kahf, so I did not wish the deep pleasure I found in this prayer to be interrupted.”3

The Companions went into a trance-like state of ecstasy when in prayer, and would recite the Quran as if it were being revealed directly to them, so they did not even feel the pain caused by arrows which penetrated their bodies. Jihad, in its lesser and greater aspects, found complete expression in them.

The Prophet, upon him be peace, combined these two aspects of jihad in the most perfect way in his own per­son. He displayed monumental courage on the battle­fields. ‘Ali, who was one of the most courageous figures of Islam, confesses that the Companions took shelter behind the Prophet, upon him be peace, at the most critical moments of the fighting. To give an exam­ple, when the Muslim army experienced a reverse and began to scatter in the first phase of the Battle of Hunayn, he urged his horse towards the enemy lines and shouted to call back his soldiers who were retreating: I am a Prophet, I do not lie; I am the grandson of ‘Abd al Muttalib, I do not lie.

http://www.dislam.org/science/other_developments.html

http://www.dislam.org/science/quranic_science.html

http://www.dislam.org/science/clash.html

http://www.dislam.org/catindex15.html#islamandscience

http://www.dislam.org/science/sub_atomic.html

Edited September 29, 2005 by smb

[aughie]

Israel is killing civilians EVERY DAY and demolish homes but no one talks about it. But when the Palestinian looses every thing, his home, his land, his freedom and his family he goes and blows himself up in any Israeli he finds the world all stands up and condemn

Palestinians have chosen their weapon. Let them live with the consequences of using human bombs. Why do they use human bombs? So there is no one to flee after the crime. There is no one to capture. There is no one to interrogate and no one to implicate the leaders. The brave leaders kill their own people to protect themselves. Murdererous at every level. Even with their own.

edit: spelling

their are going to die eather way they might as well kill an enamy with them.

for more than 50 years they have had killing civlians and all the world have kept a blind eye. and now they are fighting back with the only thing they have( their own soul)

Romanticism in politics is very dangerous, people imagine all sorts of justifications for horrid behavior.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. By blowing up the bombers they are in effect killing the witnesses to the leaders premeditated murders. I get the impression the leaders have little regard for life besides their own.

[Boon Mee]

BAGHDAD (AP) — A woman strapped with explosives and disguised as a man blew herself up outside an Iraqi army recruiting center in a northern town Wednesday, killing at least six people and wounding 30 in the first known attack by a female suicide bomber in the country's bloody insurgency. Al-Qaeda in Iraq claimed responsibility for the blast, saying in an Internet posting that it was carried out by "a blessed sister."...

Blessed for murdering, in accord with Qur'an 9:111, which promises Paradise to those who "slay and are slain" for Allah. What kind of people support this...

Link

[Nam Kao]

Sounds pieceful to me (spelled correctly)

Head here

Arm there

[ThaiArab]

South

Now this is my 1st so, pls bare with me guys......

As for the thais in the south i can only wish that they get themselves sorted out and cut loose from this whole mess, but as for the budhists of thailand i hope they just relax before going on killing sprees ..

they've done enough killing in the south for the past 30 years and they know they are only being payed back in return for their past crimes there...

As for all you people i hope you realise the situation in Thailand....it's no Malaysia...muslims have not moved over, they have always lived here, they infact were invaded which ever way you look at it...it was their land and it still is and it always will be.....

[zaz]

Geez, we Americans enter WW2 late and you complain, Now we enter WW3 early and you still complain 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You Americans seem not be too early nor too late but now constantly at war with anyone who holds a different opinion or way of life to yourselves...

[thaibebop]

smb- Thanks for sharing. That was really informative and casts new light on my knowledge of Islam. Knowledge is power. Thanks again.

[sriracha john]

Sounds pretty frightening to me! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just trying to be helpful during these times of great turmoil for you, but if I'm not mistaken, parts of Antartica have very few, if any, Muslims... perhaps you'd feel less frightened there??

It doesn't have the same weather as Thailand, but at least you'd be away from the Christian God-less heathens bent on world domination.

[Boon Mee]

Sounds pretty frightening to me! 

Just trying to be helpful during these times of great turmoil for you, but if I'm not mistaken, parts of Antartica have very few, if any, Muslims... perhaps you'd feel less frightened there??

It doesn't have the same weather as Thailand, but at least you'd be away from the Christian God-less heathens bent on world domination.

"Christian God-less heathens"?

Thought we were talking about Jihadists in the south?

BTW, does Anartica have any BG's?

[britmaveric]

South

Now this is my 1st so, pls bare with me guys......

As for the thais in the south i can only wish that they get themselves sorted out and cut loose from this whole mess, but as for the budhists of thailand i hope they just relax before going on killing sprees ..

they've done enough killing in the south for the past 30 years and they know they are only being payed back in return for their past crimes there...

As for all you people i hope you realise the situation in Thailand....it's no Malaysia...muslims have not moved over, they have always lived here, they infact were invaded which ever way you look at it...it was their land and it still is and it always will be.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Assimilation is the key - thai first muslim second. Or the alternative is........

Edited September 29, 2005 by britmaveric

[sriracha john]

Sounds pretty frightening to me! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just trying to be helpful during these times of great turmoil for you, but if I'm not mistaken, parts of Antartica have very few, if any, Muslims... perhaps you'd feel less frightened there??

It doesn't have the same weather as Thailand, but at least you'd be away from the Christian God-less heathens bent on world domination.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Christian God-less heathens"?

Thought we were talking about Jihadists in the south?

BTW, does Anartica have any BG's?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sure you could probably find a penguin to bar fine...

and oh... don't forget to bring Nam Kao with you, too... it's far too dangerous here for either of you with all these American-haters, jihadists, liberals, and Christian God-less heathens.

Fortify an igloo and stockpile some weapons.... you'll be safe for quite some time.

[smb]

smb- Thanks for sharing. That was really informative and casts new light on my knowledge of Islam. Knowledge is power. Thanks again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thank u for giving the effort to read not like others

[Boon Mee]

An Islamic Guide on How to Beat Your Wife

A Spanish court has at least identified the problem, but the judge’s solution is hopelessly naïve: An Islamic guide on how to beat your wife.

MADRID — An imam who wrote a book on how to beat your wife without leaving marks on her body has been ordered by a judge in Spain to study the country’s constitution.

The judge told Mohamed Kamal Mustafa, imam of a mosque in the southern resort of Fuengirola, to spend six months studying three articles of the constitution and the universal declaration of human rights

And San Francisco feminists and gays are in love with Islam, why?

In this case, the enemy of my enemy is not my friend. Why can't the left see that if Islamofascism wins, feminism, gay rights, minority rights and everyone else who does not worship Allah is doomed?

Ask the ``Queers for Palestine'' how the Gay Rights Parade in Ramallah went this year?

[ThaiArab]

An Islamic Guide on How to Beat Your Wife

A Spanish court has at least identified the problem, but the judge’s solution is hopelessly naïve: An Islamic guide on how to beat your wife.

MADRID — An imam who wrote a book on how to beat your wife without leaving marks on her body has been ordered by a judge in Spain to study the country’s constitution.

The judge told Mohamed Kamal Mustafa, imam of a mosque in the southern resort of Fuengirola, to spend six months studying three articles of the constitution and the universal declaration of human rights

And San Francisco feminists and gays are in love with Islam, why?

In this case, the enemy of my enemy is not my friend. Why can't the left see that if Islamofascism wins, feminism, gay rights, minority rights and everyone else who does not worship Allah is doomed?

Ask the ``Queers for Palestine'' how the Gay Rights Parade in Ramallah went this year?

Spare us, BOOOOOOOOOOOOOON

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Boon Mee]

An Islamic Guide on How to Beat Your Wife

A Spanish court has at least identified the problem, but the judge’s solution is hopelessly naïve: An Islamic guide on how to beat your wife.

MADRID — An imam who wrote a book on how to beat your wife without leaving marks on her body has been ordered by a judge in Spain to study the country’s constitution.

The judge told Mohamed Kamal Mustafa, imam of a mosque in the southern resort of Fuengirola, to spend six months studying three articles of the constitution and the universal declaration of human rights

And San Francisco feminists and gays are in love with Islam, why?

In this case, the enemy of my enemy is not my friend. Why can't the left see that if Islamofascism wins, feminism, gay rights, minority rights and everyone else who does not worship Allah is doomed?

Ask the ``Queers for Palestine'' how the Gay Rights Parade in Ramallah went this year?

Spare us, BOOOOOOOOOOOOOON

Mai mee pen haa!

[sriracha john]

An Islamic Guide on How to Beat Your Wife

A Spanish court has at least identified the problem, but the judge’s solution is hopelessly naïve: An Islamic guide on how to beat your wife.

American white trash don't need a instruction book on spousal abuse... they've been doing it for generations..

[Boon Mee]

The non-islamic version is selling for $9.95 on amazon.com. if any y'all are interested!

[smb]

BAGHDAD (AP) — A woman strapped with explosives and disguised as a man blew herself up outside an Iraqi army recruiting center in a northern town Wednesday, killing at least six people and wounding 30 in the first known attack by a female suicide bomber in the country's bloody insurgency. Al-Qaeda in Iraq claimed responsibility for the blast, saying in an Internet posting that it was carried out by "a blessed sister."...

Blessed for murdering, in accord with Qur'an 9:111, which promises Paradise to those who "slay and are slain" for Allah.  What kind of people support this...

Link

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i do

will defend my counrty by all mean even if i have to strap myself with explosives and that is called defending my country

but flying miles away to invade a country is terrorism killing civilians is terrorism,using napalm and depluded uranium is terror not to forget bombing myself up in a bus or a supermarket is terrorism

the iraqi goverment was born under occupaition they are puppets and not chosen by the people

under every law people have the right to fight for thier country

the american and its allies including the iraqi govermant is an enamy..

and dont give me that B.S about democrasy in iraq

and dont even talk about that iraqis wanted u to invade them

that is totall crap and the proof is the bombing all around iraq attacking the invaders..

by the way alqaeda in iraq is not the major miltia. there are over five major militias and they are all iraqis(shia too)

take alook at your terrorists

u condemn yours first and then talk about other terrotism

http://www.marchforjustice.com/8.15.03.du.php

http://www.marchforjustice.com/8.21.03.civiliandeaths.php

http://www.marchforjustice.com/article.php?id=813

http://www.marchforjustice.com/8.17.03.howtolie.php

http://www.marchforjustice.com/11.1.03.Ame...sAggression.php

http://www.war-on-terror.ch.vu

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/a...plantingwmd.htm

http://www.vialls.com/iraq/internment.html

http://www.albasrah.net/maqalat/english/Im...ant_to_know.htm

http://www.iraqirabita.org/english/index.p...o=summary&id=15

[britmaveric]

SMB - what a load of &lt;deleted&gt;!!!! Sorry all you've listed was rubbish propoganda - we might as well be tuning into Al Jazera with that sh*te!!!

[smb]

An Islamic Guide on How to Beat Your Wife

A Spanish court has at least identified the problem, but the judge’s solution is hopelessly naïve: An Islamic guide on how to beat your wife.

MADRID — An imam who wrote a book on how to beat your wife without leaving marks on her body has been ordered by a judge in Spain to study the country’s constitution.

The judge told Mohamed Kamal Mustafa, imam of a mosque in the southern resort of Fuengirola, to spend six months studying three articles of the constitution and the universal declaration of human rights

And San Francisco feminists and gays are in love with Islam, why?

In this case, the enemy of my enemy is not my friend. Why can't the left see that if Islamofascism wins, feminism, gay rights, minority rights and everyone else who does not worship Allah is doomed?

Ask the ``Queers for Palestine'' how the Gay Rights Parade in Ramallah went this year?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Child molesting priest walks free

A Melbourne Catholic priest who pleaded guilty to indecently assaulting a 15-year-old boy walked free today after being handed a two-year-eight-month suspended jail sentence.

In sentencing Father John Barry Gwillim, 71, of Coburg, County Court Judge Fred Davey told the defendant nothing would be gained by sending him to jail.

"There will be another sentence, that of a disgraced priest," Judge Davey said.

"The record of a disgraced priest will blot you from people's memory forever."

Gwillim, a priest of 40 years' standing, pleaded guilty to five counts of indecent assault and four of gross indecency between October 1979 and February 1981.

He was first interviewed by police in 1992.

Gwillim, who was parish priest at St Peter's church in suburban Keilor East between 1979 and 1999, approached his 15-year-old schoolboy victim in the city while he was waiting for a train in late 1979.

Gwillim did not tell the boy he was a priest and offered to drive him home.

He pulled over in a quiet street and asked the boy to be "nice" to him, directing him to perform oral sex.

The court heard the sexual relationship continued, with Gwillim picking up the boy after swimming lessons.

The pair would then perform mutual oral sex either in the car or at a motel.

Prosecutor Mihael Tinney said the schoolboy had a troubled home life and knew what was happening was wrong, but regarded the sexual acts as a "small price to pay for friendship".

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/12/...l?oneclick=true

Former priest sentenced for molesting child

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. -- A former priest who has become a central figure in a sexual abuse scandal that has shaken Boston's Roman Catholic community was sentenced to the maximum of nine to 10 years today for fondling a 10-year-old boy.

Former priest John Geogan "hid behind his collar" and his position in the church to prey on young boys, Judge Sandra Hamlin said in announcing the sentence.

She detailed Geoghan's admissions of molesting other children and psychological evaluations citing his lack of concern for his victims and his tendency to blame them for his acts as evidence he was not a candidate for rehabilitation.

Under the sentence, Geoghan could be eligible for parole in six years. The judge ordered strict monitoring after any later release.

Geoghan, 66, was convicted last month of indecent assault and battery for fondling the boy in 1991 at a community swimming pool. The victim had testified that he was trying to teach himself how to dive when Geoghan, who had been coaching him verbally, reached inside his swimming trunks and squeezed his buttocks.

Since 1995, more than 130 people have claimed Geoghan fondled or raped them during the three decades he served in Boston-area parishes. The trial was the first of three criminal cases against Geoghan. He also is named in more than 80 civil suits.

The second trial, which was to have started Wednesday, is delayed while the judge hears arguments on whether the statute of limitations for the alleged crime has expired.

Geoghan's attorneys argued Wednesday in that case that the molestation accusations were made in 1986, when the statute of limitations was 10 years. Prosecutor David Deakin countered that the charges are based on specific allegations made in 1989, within the current 15-year limit. The hearing is to continue Friday.

The allegations against Geoghan and questions of how much church officials knew have created a scandal for the church and led to major changes in how the Archdiocese of Boston deals with allegations of abuse.

Last month, Cardinal Bernard Law ordered that church officials report all accusations of sexual abuse against minors, including past allegations. Law has since given prosecutors the names of more than 80 active and former priests accused of abuse during the last four decades. Nine active priests have been suspended.

The archdiocese also has been criticized over documents showing that church officials knew of allegations against Geoghan years ago but continued to move him from parish to parish.

During Geoghan's sentencing today, the victim, now a 20-year-old college junior, told the court he felt "nauseous" and that he was angered by the "emotionless" face Geoghan showed at the trial.

"I think as much time away from the outside world as possible will do him so good," he said.

Assistant District Attorney Lynn Rooney requested the maximum sentence for Geoghan, calling the former priest "a predatory pedophile."

Geoghan didn't testify at his trial or at his sentencing, and no one but his lawyer spoke on his behalf.

Defense attorney Geoffrey Packard today asked the judge to sentence Geoghan to probation, saying he was a good priest and neighbor. He asked the judge not to go outside the sentencing guidelines just because Geoghan "is the flashpoint for the issue that has shaken the foundation of the Archdiocese of Boston."

After the hearing, Packard said he was concerned about Geoghan's safety and his state of mind.

"I think he's stunned," the attorney said. "He's just been sent to state prison and he's 66 years old. I am afraid for him."

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sns-priesta...,0,298593.story

i can go on for ages if im a narrow minded looking for the crack heads from any religion and blame the religion itself for what he did...........................

but im not like u ,i did this only to show u that in every culture and religion good and bad.

now if u looking for the truth (im sure your not )

WOMAN IN ISLAM

1. The Spiritual Aspect

The Qur'an provides clear-cut evidence that woman iscompletely equated with man in the sight of God interms of her rights and responsibilities. The Qur'an states:

"Every soul will be (held) in pledge for its deeds" (Qur'an 74:38). It also states:

...So their Lord accepted their prayers, (saying): I will not suffer to be lost the work of any of you whether male or female. You proceed one from another ...(Qur'an 3: 195).

Whoever works righteousness, man or woman, and has faith, verily to him will We give a new life that is good and pure, and We will bestow on such their reward according to the their actions. (Qur'an 16:97, see also 4:124).

Woman according to the Qur'an is not blamed for Adam's first mistake. Both were jointly wrong in their disobedience to God, both repented, and both were forgiven. (Qur'an 2:36, 7:20 - 24). In one verse in fact (20:121), Adam specifically, was blamed.

In terms of religious obligations, such as the Daily Prayers, Fasting, Poor-due, and Pilgrimage, woman is no different from man. In some cases indeed, woman has certain advantages over man. For example, the woman is exempted from the daily prayers and from fasting during her menstrual periods and forty days after childbirth. She is also exempted from fasting during her pregnancy and when she is nursing her baby if there is any threat to her health or her baby's. If the missed fasting is obligatory (during the month of Ramadan), she can make up for the missed days whenever she can. She does not have to make up for the prayers missed for any of the above reasons. Although women can and did go into the mosque during the days of the prophet and thereafter attendance et the Friday congregational prayers is optional for them while it is mandatory for men (on Friday).

This is clearly a tender touch of the Islamic teachings for they are considerate of the fact that a woman may be nursing her baby or caring for him, and thus may be unable to go out to the mosque at the time of the prayers. They also take into account the physiological and psychological changes associated with her natural female functions.

2. The Social Aspect

a) As a child and an adolescent

Despite the social acceptance of female infanticide among some Arabian tribes, the Qur'an forbade this custom, and considered it a crime like any other murder.

"And when the female (infant) buried alive - is questioned, for what crime she was killed." (Qur'an 81:8-9).

Criticizing the attitudes of such parents who reject their female children, the Qur'an states:

When news is brought to one of them, of (the Birth of) a female (child), his face darkens and he is filled with inward grief! With shame does he hide himself from his people because of the bad news he has had! Shall he retain her on (sufferance) and contempt, or bury her in the dust? Ah! What an evil (choice) they decide on? (Qur'an 16: 58-59).

Far from saving the girl's life so that she may later suffer injustice and inequality, Islam requires kind and just treatment for her. Among the sayings of Prophet Muhammad (P.) in this regard are the following:

Whosoever has a daughter and he does not bury her alive, does not insult her, and does not favor his son over her, God will enter him into Paradise. (Ibn Hanbal, No. 1957).

Whosoever supports two daughters till they mature, he and I will come in the day of judgment as this (and he pointed with his two fingers held together).

A similar Hadeeth deals in like manner with one who supports two sisters. (Ibn-Hanbal, No. 2104).

The right of females to seek knowledge is not different from that of males. Prophet Muhammad (P.) said:

"Seeking knowledge is mandatory for every Muslim". (AlBayhaqi). Muslim as used here including both males and females.

As a wife:

The Qur'an clearly indicates that marriage is sharing between the two halves of the society, and that its objectives, beside perpetuating human life, are emotional well-being and spiritual harmony. Its bases are love and mercy.

Among the most impressive verses in the Qur'an about marriage is the following.

"And among His signs is this: That He created mates for you from yourselves that you may find rest, peace of mind in them, and He ordained between you love and mercy. Lo, herein indeed are signs for people who reflect." (Qur'an 30:2 1).

According to Islamic Law, women cannot be forced to marry anyone without their consent.

Ibn Abbas reported that a girl came to the Messenger of God, Muhammad (P.), and she reported that her father had forced her to marry without her consent. The Messenger of God gave her the choice . . . (between accepting the marriage or invalidating it). (Ibn Hanbal No. 2469). In another version, the girl said: "Actually I accept this marriage but I wanted to let women know that parents have no right (to force a husband on them)" (Ibn Maja, No. 1873).

Besides all other provisions for her protection at the time of marriage, it was specifically decreed that woman has the full right to her Mahr, a marriage gift, which is presented to her by her husband and is included in the nuptial contract, and that such ownership does not transfer to her father or husband. The concept of Mahr in Islam is neither an actual or symbolic price for the woman, as was the case in certain cultures, but rather it is a gift symbolizing love and affection.

The rules for married life in Islam are clear and in harmony with upright human nature. In consideration of the physiological and psychological make-up of man and woman, both have equal rights and claims on one another, except for one responsibility, that of leadership. This is a matter which is natural in any collective life and which is consistent with the nature of man.

The Qur'an thus states:

"And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them, and men are a degree above them." (Qur'an 2:228).

Such degree is Quiwama (maintenance and protection). This refers to that natural difference between the sexes which entitles the weaker sex to protection. It implies no superiority or advantage before the law. Yet, man's role of leadership in relation to his family does not mean the husband's dictatorship over his wife. Islam emphasizes the importance of taking counsel and mutual agreement in family decisions. The Qur'an gives us an example:

"...If they (husband wife) desire to wean the child by mutual consent and (after) consultation, there is no blame on them..." (Qur'an 2: 233).

Over and above her basic rights as a wife comes the right which is emphasized by the Qur'an and is strongly recommended by the Prophet (P); kind treatment and companionship.

The Qur'an states:

"...But consort with them in kindness, for if you hate them it may happen that you hate a thing wherein God has placed much good." (Qur'an 4: l9).

Prophet Muhammad. (P) said:

The best of you is the best to his family and I am the best among you to my family.

The most perfect believers are the best in conduct and best of you are those who are best to their wives. (Ibn-Hanbal, No. 7396)

Behold, many women came to Muhammad's wives complaining against their husbands (because they beat them) - - those (husbands) are not the best of you.

As the woman's right to decide about her marriage is recognized, so also her right to seek an end for an unsuccessful marriage is recognized. To provide for the stability of the family, however, and in order to protect it from hasty decisions under temporary emotional stress, certain steps and waiting periods should be observed by men and women seeking divorce. Considering the relatively more emotional nature of women, a good reason for asking for divorce should be brought before the judge. Like the man, however, the woman can divorce her husband with out resorting to the court, if the nuptial contract allows that.

More specifically, some aspects of Islamic Law concerning marriage and divorce are interesting and are worthy of separate treatment.

When the continuation of the marriage relationship is impossible for any reason, men are still taught to seek a gracious end for it.

The Qur'an states about such cases:

When you divorce women, and they reach their prescribed term, then retain them in kindness and retain them not for injury so that you transgress (the limits). (Qur'an 2:231). (See also Qur'an 2:229 and 33:49).

c) As a mother:

Islam considered kindness to parents next to the worship of God.

"And we have enjoined upon man (to be good) to his parents: His mother bears him in weakness upon weakness..." (Qur'an 31:14) (See also Qur'an 46:15, 29:8).

Moreover, the Qur'an has a special recommendation for the good treatment of mothers:

"Your Lord has decreed that you worship none save Him, and that you be kind to your parents. . ." (Qur'an 17:23).

A man came to Prophet Muhammad (P) asking:

O Messenger of God, who among the people is the most worthy of my good company? The Prophet (P) said, Your mother. The man said then who else: The Prophet (P) said, Your mother. The man asked, Then who else? Only then did the Prophet (P) say, Your father. (Al-Bukhari and Muslim).

A famous saying of The Prophet is "Paradise is at the feet of mothers." (In Al'Nisa'I, Ibn Majah, Ahmad).

"It is the generous (in character) who is good to women, and it is the wicked who insults them."

3. The Economic Aspect

Islam decreed a right of which woman was deprived both before Islam and after it (even as late as this century), the right of independent ownership. According to Islamic Law, woman's right to her money, real estate, or other properties is fully acknowledged. This right undergoes no change whether she is single or married. She retains her full rights to buy, sell, mortgage or lease any or all her properties. It is nowhere suggested in the Law that a woman is a minor simply because she is a female. It is also noteworthy that such right applies to her properties before marriage as well as to whatever she acquires thereafter.

With regard to the woman's right to seek employment it should be stated first that Islam regards her role in society as a mother and a wife as the most sacred and essential one. Neither maids nor baby-sitters can possibly take the mother's place as the educator of an upright, complex free, and carefully-reared children. Such a noble and vital role, which largely shapes the future of nations, cannot be regarded as "idleness".

However, there is no decree in Islam which forbids woman from seeking employment whenever there is a necessity for it, especially in positions which fit her nature and in which society needs her most. Examples of these professions are nursing, teaching (especially for children), and medicine. Moreover, there is no restriction on benefiting from woman's exceptional talent in any field. Even for the position of a judge, where there may be a tendency to doubt the woman's fitness for the post due to her more emotional nature, we find early Muslim scholars such as Abu-Hanifa and Al-Tabary holding there is nothing wrong with it. In addition, Islam restored to woman the right of inheritance, after she herself was an object of inheritance in some cultures. Her share is completely hers and no one can make any claim on it, including her father and her husband.

"Unto men (of the family) belongs a share of that which Parents and near kindred leave, and unto women a share of that which parents and near kindred leave, whether it be a little or much - a determinate share." ((Qur'an 4:7).

Her share in most cases is one-half the man's share, with no implication that she is worth half a man! It would seem grossly inconsistent after the overwhelming evidence of woman's equitable treatment in Islam, which was discussed in the preceding pages, to make such an inference. This variation in inheritance rights is only consistent with the variations in financial responsibilities of man and woman according to the Islamic Law. Man in Islam is fully responsible for the maintenance of his wife, his children, and in some cases of his needy relatives, especially the females. This responsibility is neither waived nor reduced because of his wife's wealth or because of her access to any personal income gained from work, rent, profit, or any other legal means.

Woman, on the other hand, is far more secure financially and is far less burdened with any claims on her possessions. Her possessions before marriage do not transfer to her husband and she even keeps her maiden name. She has no obligation to spend on her family out of such properties or out of her income after marriage. She is entitled to the "Mahr" which she takes from her husband at the time of marriage. If she is divorced, she may get an alimony from her ex-husband.

An examination of the inheritance law within the overall framework of the Islamic Law reveals not only justice but also an abundance of compassion for woman.

4. The Political Aspect

Any fair investigation of the teachings of Islam o~ into the history of the Islamic civilization will surely find a clear evidence of woman's equality with man in what we call today "political rights".

This includes the right of election as well as the nomination to political offices. It also includes woman's right to participate in public affairs. Both in the Qur'an and in Islamic history we find examples of women who participated in serious discussions and argued even with the Prophet (P) himself, (see Qur'an 58: 14 and 60: 10-12).

During the Caliphate of Omar Ibn al-Khattab, a woman argued with him in the mosque, proved her point, and caused him to declare in the presence of people: "A woman is right and Omar is wrong."

Although not mentioned in the Qur'an, one Hadeeth of the Prophet is interpreted to make woman ineligible for the position of head of state. The Hadeeth referred to is roughly translated: "A people will not prosper if they let a woman be their leader." This limitation, however, has nothing to do with the dignity of woman or with her rights. It is rather, related to the natural differences in the biological and psychological make-up of men and women.

According to Islam, the head of the state is no mere figurehead. He leads people in the prayers, especially on Fridays and festivities; he is continuously engaged in the process of decision-making pertaining to the security and well-being of his people. This demanding position, or any similar one, such as the Commander of the Army, is generally inconsistent with the physiological and psychological make-up of woman in general. It is a medical fact that during their monthly periods and during their pregnancies, women undergo various physiological and psychological changes. Such changes may occur during an emergency situation, thus affecting her decision, without considering the excessive strain which is produced. Moreover, some decisions require a maximum of rationality and a minimum of emotionality - a requirement which does not coincide with the instinctive nature of women.

Even in modern times, and in the most developed countries, it is rare to find a woman in the position of a head of state acting as more than a figurehead, a woman commander of the armed services, or even a proportionate number of women representatives in parliaments, or similar bodies. One can not possibly ascribe this to backwardness of various nations or to any constitutional limitation on woman's right to be in such a position as a head of state or as a member of the parliament. It is more logical to explain the present situation in terms of the natural and indisputable differences between man and woman, a difference which does not imply any "supremacy" of one over the other. The difference implies rather the "complementary" roles of both the sexes in life.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IV. CONCLUSION

The first part of this paper deals briefly with the position of various religions and cultures on the issue under investigation. Part of this exposition extends to cover the general trend as late as the nineteenth century, nearly 1300 years after the Qur'an set forth the Islamic teachings.

In the second part of the paper, the status of women in Islam is briefly discussed. Emphasis in this part is placed on the original and authentic sources of Islam. This represents the standard according to which degree of adherence of Muslims can be judged. It is also a fact that during the downward cycle of Islamic Civilization, such teachings were not strictly adhered to by many people who profess to be Muslims.

Such deviations were unfairly exaggerated by some writers, and the worst of this, were superficially taken to represent the teachings of "Islam" to the Western reader without taking the trouble to make any original and unbiased study of the authentic sources of these teachings.

Even with such deviations three facts are worth mentioning:

1. The history of Muslims is rich with women of great achievements in all walks of life from as early as the seventh century (B.C.)

2. It is impossible for anyone to justify any mistreatment of woman by any decree of rule embodied in the Islamic Law, nor could anyone dare to cancel, reduce, or distort the clear-cut legal rights of women given in Islamic Law.

3. Throughout history, the reputation, chastity and maternal role of Muslim women were objects of admiration by impartial observers.

It is also worthwhile to state that the status which women reached during the present era was not achieved due to the kindness of men or due to natural progress. It was rather achieved through a long struggle and sacrifice on woman's part and only when society needed her contribution and work, more especial!; during the two world wars, and due to the escalation of technological change.

In the case of Islam such compassionate and dignified status was decreed, not because it reflects the environment of the seventh century, nor under the threat or pressure of women and their organizations, but rather because of its intrinsic truthfulness.

If this indicates anything, it would demonstrate the divine origin of the Qur'an and the truthfulness of the message of Islam, which, unlike human philosophies and ideologies, was far from proceeding from its human environment, a message which established such humane principles as neither grew obsolete during the course of time and after these many centuries, nor can become obsolete in the future. After all, this is the message of the All-Wise and all-knowing God whose wisdom and knowledge are far beyond the ultimate in human thought and progress.

http://www.iad.org/books/S-women.html

http://debate.domini.org/newton/womeng.html

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/humanrelations/womeninislam/

Edited September 30, 2005 by smb

[smb]

SMB - what a load of &lt;deleted&gt;!!!! Sorry all you've listed was rubbish propoganda - we might as well be tuning into Al Jazera with that sh*te!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you didnt even read them i posted them a while ago

u dont have to beleive it at least read what u call rubbish

i listen to the bbc and the cnn everyday and that i call rubbish..

get the info from all sides and then use your mind to see what is more logical

[richard10365]

To all the supporters of giving the 3 provinces back to the muslims

Islams quest for world domination might have worked 100 years ago. Thats when France, England, and the USA was too busy to notice. They were out sticking their flag in the ground in other countries claiming them for god and country.

Todays world will not stand for it. Things are different. Humans have evolved socially to a point where they don't tolerate it anymore. Look how much critisism the USA got when they invaded Vietnam, Laos, and Iraq.

Now, borders of countries of the world are pretty much set and are not going to change without a major war.

The land belonged to the South 100 years ago. Thats the past. Now it belongs to Thailand.

Get over it. You were not there. There is probably no one who was there when the land was not part of Thailand. Your not missing anything.

What would you do if the land was given back? How would you take care of the people there? I have not seen one solution where someone spelled out how they would take care of the millions of people there if they made the 3 provinces a little country.

Could they do it better than Thailand? If so, how?

[OlRedEyes]

Okay Boon Mee, what exactly is your point. You hate the Muslims right? I mean it's kind of dragging it on a bit with all your quotes, just come out and say it. And after you have said it, I will feel very sorry for you. Because, as we have all been trying to say on this forum.... the people who are causing trouble in the south are not your average Muslim living in Thailand. I think some of your points have reason for discussion but it's time to stand up and say what you are really thinking.... or are you some sort of 'planted' antagonist?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very simplistic there, seonai. I'm simply bringing out historical facts - what you make of them is up to you. 'Tham jai khun'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You tend to bring out 'historical facts' in a pretty one-sided fashion. Smacks of brainwashing? Or maybe you can only grasp one fact at a time?

Like the funny story regarding slavery. It pales in comparison to the other side of the story.

[meemiathai]

I hate muslims like they hate the rest of the world.

What's wrong admitting that?

[chownah]

To all the supporters of giving the 3 provinces back to the muslims

Islams quest for world domination might have worked 100 years ago. Thats when France, England, and the USA was too busy to notice.  They were out sticking their flag in the ground in other countries claiming them for god and country.

Todays world will not stand for it. Things are different. Humans have evolved socially to a point where they don't tolerate it anymore. Look how much critisism the USA got when they invaded Vietnam, Laos, and Iraq.

Now, borders of countries of the world are pretty much set and are not going to change without a major war.

The land belonged to the South 100 years ago. Thats the past. Now it belongs to Thailand.

Get over it. You were not there. There is probably no one who was there when the land was not part of Thailand. Your not missing anything.

What would you do if the land was given back? How would you take care of the people there? I have not seen one solution where someone spelled out how they would take care of the millions of people there if they made the 3 provinces a little country.

Could they do it better than Thailand? If so, how?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I find this quote from the above interesting: "Now, borders of countries of the world are pretty much set and are not going to change without a major war."

This is exactly what the terrorists believe...that is why they are creating a "major war" in the only way that they know how..terrorism. If there was some way for people to change their governmental overlords to something more in sync with their lives without using violence then probably the violence would go away or be much much reduced....but....the powers that be will not relinquish or accomodate....so....people have found a way to fight for what they want...its not very pretty....its not very nice....I don't like it....but...I do understand where they are coming from....I do see that it is the inflexibility of existing gov'ts that creates conditions ripe for creating these indiscriminate killers....and....since it is the existing gov'ts that hold most of the power it will be them who will have to change or I'm afraid that this sort of thing will continue....like it or not. One more point....having a bunch of terrorists running amok around the world actually helps existing gov'ts maintain and even increase their control on the lives of their citizens..if you don't think that terrorism helped Bush get re-elected then you are not well informed or very naive....I'm not saying that he encourages terrorism (although some few people have this opinioin) but it undeniably has helped him politically....in this way a gov't willing to fight but not negotiate will help to fan the flames of terrorism and the terrorist acts help to perpetuate that same gov't...an unending feedback loop spiraling downward to........what? This spiral is fueled by fear..fear of terrorism and fear of speaking up as that may cause you to be labeled as a terrorist.

[ray23]

South

Now this is my 1st so, pls bare with me guys......

As for the thais in the south i can only wish that they get themselves sorted out and cut loose from this whole mess, but as for the budhists of thailand i hope they just relax before going on killing sprees ..

they've done enough killing in the south for the past 30 years and they know they are only being payed back in return for their past crimes there...

As for all you people i hope you realise the situation in Thailand....it's no Malaysia...muslims have not moved over, they have always lived here, they infact were invaded which ever way you look at it...it was their land and it still is and it always will be.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

SMB thank you for an informative post. I don't see where the justification is in this for what we are dealing with, unless of course the other side is viewed as oppressors.

Zaz you are lumping an entire group of people as bad, isn't that exactly what you were upset at when it was directed at you. It wasn't right when others did it to you and it's not right when you do it either.

[smb]

South

Now this is my 1st so, pls bare with me guys......

As for the thais in the south i can only wish that they get themselves sorted out and cut loose from this whole mess, but as for the budhists of thailand i hope they just relax before going on killing sprees ..

they've done enough killing in the south for the past 30 years and they know they are only being payed back in return for their past crimes there...

As for all you people i hope you realise the situation in Thailand....it's no Malaysia...muslims have not moved over, they have always lived here, they infact were invaded which ever way you look at it...it was their land and it still is and it always will be.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

SMB thank you for an informative post. I don't see where the justification is in this for what we are dealing with, unless of course the other side is viewed as oppressors.

Zaz you are lumping an entire group of people as bad, isn't that exactly what you were upset at when it was directed at you. It wasn't right when others did it to you and it's not right when you do it either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i posted the info about the women to reply to the persons post who talked about muslim beating his wife as if it is allawed in islam.

[smb]

To all the supporters of giving the 3 provinces back to the muslims

Islams quest for world domination might have worked 100 years ago. Thats when France, England, and the USA was too busy to notice.   They were out sticking their flag in the ground in other countries claiming them for god and country.

Todays world will not stand for it. Things are different. Humans have evolved socially to a point where they don't tolerate it anymore. Look how much critisism the USA got when they invaded Vietnam, Laos, and Iraq.

Now, borders of countries of the world are pretty much set and are not going to change without a major war.

The land belonged to the South 100 years ago. Thats the past. Now it belongs to Thailand.

Get over it. You were not there. There is probably no one who was there when the land was not part of Thailand. Your not missing anything.

What would you do if the land was given back? How would you take care of the people there? I have not seen one solution where someone spelled out how they would take care of the millions of people there if they made the 3 provinces a little country.

Could they do it better than Thailand? If so, how?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

richard i am against giving them their own country and i did say this in my first post.they will not be able most probably to survive and we will have one more poor nation.

i think what the govermant should do.is let them live the way they want as long as they dont bother others but under full control of the thai govermant .

like make the law there islamic as they wish but under supervition of the govermant. in schools let them study arabic and islam.

this way i think 1-the govermant first of all will remain in full controle

2-will reduce the number of people who support the terror

3-will have the killing reduced

4-will gain international support even from islamic countries

what do u guys think of this solution???

Edited September 30, 2005 by smb

[zaz]

I hate muslims like they hate the rest of the world.

What's wrong admitting that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's just inherently wrong then isn't it, completely wrong because your underlying reason for hating Muslims is such in an incorrect generalisation.

I am a Muslim and I don't hate the rest of the World, if there's anyone I don't "like" I would say that I actually feel sorry for them and pray for them like a Muslim should. I wouldn't strap a bomb up my arse and sit next to anyone on a bus and blow myself up if I didn't like them. How's that?

[zaz]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Zaz you are lumping an entire group of people as bad, isn't that exactly what you were upset at when it was directed at you. It wasn't right when others did it to you and it's not right when you do it either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course making generalisations is stupid, whether I do it or anyone else - fact is we will all get upset when we fall into the generalised category of people.

Conclusion - it hurts doesn't?

My personal apologies if I caused you offence.

Note - See the difference between some people, I admit and apologise when I'm out of order whereas others unashamedly continue their rampage of offence with complete disregard .